Couple questions

[Lilandriss]

Hello all! I finally got around to checking out Sailor Moon Crystal and am absolutely amazed by it. It's everything I wish the 90's series had been like. I'm almost done season 2, and I have a couple questions. 1) I had heard way back when the 90's series was airing that the English version changed Zoicite from male to female because he/she and Kunzite were lovers. That doesn't seem to be the case in Crystal, though. All four were the lovers of the pretty guardians? How many versions of Sailor Moon are there?

2) Black Lady. She does realize that Tuxedo Mask/Endymion's younger self is still her father....doesn't she?

 

[JayD22460]

Crystal is closer to the manga. Zoisite was a male in the manga and in the original 90s anime he was Kunzite’s lover, but that’s not really in the manga (if anything it might be possibly hinted at in one tiny panel and in an art book but otherwise it’s just not there). The whole “past life lovers of the Inners” thing is based on an idea Takeuchi had but didn’t have time for. So it was relegated to a single illustration (not a panel but just a picture she drew) and the idea was visited a few times in the musical. Not sure about Kunzite and Venus though.

Here are the main versions of Sailor Moon:
Manga (including Sailor V manga)
90s anime
Crystal anime
PGSM (live-action show)
Various live musicals (Sera Myu)

And yeah, Black Lady knows. It’s incest. Meant to be icky.

 

[Crystal Moon]

Hello all! I finally got around to checking out Sailor Moon Crystal and am absolutely amazed by it. It's everything I wish the 90's series had been like. I'm almost done season 2, and I have a couple questions. 1) I had heard way back when the 90's series was airing that the English version changed Zoicite from male to female because he/she and Kunzite were lovers. That doesn't seem to be the case in Crystal, though. All four were the lovers of the pretty guardians? How many versions of Sailor Moon are there?

2) Black Lady. She does realize that Tuxedo Mask/Endymion's younger self is still her father....doesn't she?

1) The author wrote only the hint between Venus and Kunzite.

2) I don't think there is any humanity and sense of morality remained in Black Lady. She even tried to kill her own mother (Sailor Moon), erasing her own homeland. So kissing Tuxedo Mask or her father is nothing compared with the cruelty and her corrupted characteristic.

 

[MariaTenebre]

I still don't buy the notion that Naoko Takeuchi didn't have time to put in the Senshi/Shitennou story. I mean if she wanted to she could have easily put in the Materials Collection that the Senshi were supposed to get with the Shitennou and she could have even had the Shitennou survive the first season and become the Inner's lovers and Tuxedo Mask's Guardians full time. For whatever reason she decided against it instead preferring the whole forever alone nonsense she put in the manga. I personally much prefer Zoisite and Kunzite as a couple as opposed to them being paired with Sailor Mercury and Sailor Venus respectively. I can tolerate Sailor Mars/Jadeite and Sailor Jupiter/Nephrite but just barely. I still prefer Sailor Mars in the 90s anime being paired with Yuuichirou and in the 90s anime Sailor Jupiter being paired with Shinozaki but I also like Makoto with Asanuma in the manga.

 

[FloraKiraraHime]

I personally much prefer Zoisite and Kunzite as a couple as opposed to them being paired with Sailor Mercury and Sailor Venus respectively. I can tolerate Sailor Mars/Jadeite and Sailor Jupiter/Nephrite but just barely. I still prefer Sailor Mars in the 90s anime being paired with Yuuichirou and in the 90s anime Sailor Jupiter being paired with Shinozaki but I also like Makoto with Asanuma in the manga.

I don't mind the past!SenshiXKings couplings, I'm okay with it. It's the present day versions that I'm not too fond of.

 

[MsImagination]

I still don't buy the notion that Naoko Takeuchi didn't have time to put in the Senshi/Shitennou story. I mean if she wanted to she could have easily put in the Materials Collection that the Senshi were supposed to get with the Shitennou and she could have even had the Shitennou survive the first season and become the Inner's lovers and Tuxedo Mask's Guardians full time. For whatever reason she decided against it instead preferring the whole forever alone nonsense she put in the manga. I personally much prefer Zoisite and Kunzite as a couple as opposed to them being paired with Sailor Mercury and Sailor Venus respectively. I can tolerate Sailor Mars/Jadeite and Sailor Jupiter/Nephrite but just barely. I still prefer Sailor Mars in the 90s anime being paired with Yuuichirou and in the 90s anime Sailor Jupiter being paired with Shinozaki but I also like Makoto with Asanuma in the manga.

She said in the first artbook how she wanted to write stories for those couples someday..

 

[MariaTenebre]

She said in the first artbook how she wanted to write stories for those couples someday..

And nothing would have stopped her from doing so in the first place. If she truly wanted the Inner Senshi and Shitennou to be together then she could have wrote that she intended them to be together in the Materials Collection. She could have written that the Shitennou survived and became Tuxedo Mask's Guardians and the Inners permanent boyfriends etc. She could have done all of that but opted instead to do the whole forever alone route for the Senshi. So yeah again not buying it if she really wanted them to be together then nothing would have stopped her from emphatically putting them together in all versions. Usagi and Mamoru along with Haruka and Michiru are a couple in all versions of the show that is because Naoko emphatically demanded they be put together she did not do the same for Senshi/Shitennou. At best it was an idea she flirted with and then discarded.

 

[MsImagination]

And nothing would have stopped her from doing so in the first place. If she truly wanted the Inner Senshi and Shitennou to be together then she could have wrote that she intended them to be together in the Materials Collection. She could have written that the Shitennou survived and became Tuxedo Mask's Guardians and the Inners permanent boyfriends etc. She could have done all of that but opted instead to do the whole forever alone route for the Senshi. So yeah again not buying it if she really wanted them to be together then nothing would have stopped her from emphatically putting them together in all versions. Usagi and Mamoru along with Haruka and Michiru are a couple in all versions of the show that is because Naoko emphatically demanded they be put together she did not do the same for Senshi/Shitennou. At best it was an idea she flirted with and then discarded.

The materials collection to my knowledge is her concept notebook being publish.It's even debated if its cannon or not .There was a lot things were cut.Like peyt .What you mean she amended Haruka,and Micheru to be together in all versions?

 

[MariaTenebre]

The materials collection to my knowledge is her concept notebook being publish.It's even debated if its cannon or not .There was a lot things were cut.Like peyt .What you mean she amended Haruka,and Micheru to be together in all versions?

Still if she wanted the Senshi with the Shitennou she could have explicitly demanded them to be put together. There is no Sailor Moon universe where Usagi and Mamoru or Haruka and Michiru are not a couple because she insisted that these two pairs be romantic couples. If she wanted the Inner Senshi with the Shitennou she could have easily demanded to Toei when the first anime was made for them to be put together as couples and to also write this in her manga. She didn't but she absolutely could have which shows she toyed with the idea but then decided not to use it.

And what I mean by this is there is no official product foreign dubs non with standing where Haruka and Michiru are not a romantic couple. Because she always insisted they be a romantic couple like Usagi and Mamoru. The only arguably official product you could say that Haruka and Michiru weren't stated to be a couple was PGSM and that was only because none of the Outers appeared in PGSM. Some people don't even think the Outers exist in the PGSM canon but again I am sure if the Outers did appear or if say PGSM reached the Mugen arc I am sure Haruka and Michiru would be a romantic couple as they are in all adaptations. If she insisted and demanded the Inner Senshi be paired with the Shitennou then nothing would stop her. So no I don't buy for a second that she really wanted to put them together but couldn't.

 

[sapphire91]

Back in the day she was not that influential - she had almost no power and control over the 90s series, her editor Osabu didn't let her explore all of her ideas, so I guess she might have wanted to do it, but at the time he made her change her mind. I'm against these pairing myself and I think t is bad writing to pair them conviniently like this. I still like the idea about Venus/ Kunzite mainly because Sailor V. But all of the senshi and shitennou pairings are a bit too much.

 

[MsImagination]

Naok did not have too much say on what the anime do. The manga,and the anime were written around the same time.They did they own thing.There is also no proof she insisted they were couple to fore in dubs.Lot of foreign dubs cenceredred on Haruka and Micheru relationship? Only the reubs kept them in . Because we're in a different time now.PGC is also a completely different retelling.

 

[MariaTenebre]

Back in the day she was not that influential - she had almost no power and control over the 90s series, her editor Osabu didn't let her explore all of her ideas, so I guess she might have wanted to do it, but at the time he made her change her mind. I'm against these pairing myself and I think t is bad writing to pair them conviniently like this. I still like the idea about Venus/ Kunzite mainly because Sailor V. But all of the senshi and shitennou pairings are a bit too much.

I honestly don't see how or why Osabu would prevent Senshi/Shitennou he let her other romantic pairings happen so why not them? Plus it is a shoujo series so if anything that could add to the story. Again I don't like Senshi/Shitennou because it makes no sense for the Inners to criticize Princess Serenity in the Silver Millennium for having a forbidden romance with a person of the Earth and do the same thing is just strange it also is kind of boring for them all to have met in the same circumstances as Serenity and Endymion.

Also I hate Senshi/Shitennou because it erases a gay male couple with Zoisite and Kunzite. Plus there are other pairings I think are better for the Senshi. I will also add for Venus/Kunzite that it was only stated in Sailor V that Sailor Venus had feelings for Kunzite. It was never stated whether they were requited.

Naok did not have too much say on what the anime do. The manga,and the anime were written around the same time.They did they own thing.There is also no proof she insisted they were couple to fore in dubs.Lot of foreign dubs cenceredred on Haruka and Micheru relationship? Only the reubs kept them in . Because we're in a different time now.PGC is also a completely different retelling.

I said the dubs were exceptions because they had to be censored however every official product in Japan that features Haruka and Michiru has them as a couple. If she really wanted Senshi/Shitennou then she could have easily put it in the manga explicitly and being that it is a shoujo series with romance being a major them this would fit in with the established theme and she could have easily told the makers of the first anime that the Senshi and Shitennou were meant to be paired together just like she did with Usagi and Mamoru and Haruka and Michiru. You can't find any version of Sailor Moon in Japan where Usagi and Mamoru and Haruka and Michiru are not lovers. It is clear she toyed with the idea of Senshi/Shitennou and decided not to use it. If she really wanted to she could have made them permanent lovers in all continuities just like Usagi and Mamoru and Haruka and Michiru. So I don't buy for one minute that she couldn't put these pairings in a shoujo series with romance as a main plot of the story for Christ's sake.

 

[MsImagination]

Me rolling my eyes. She is not the charge of all versions of sailor moon. At least not in the 90s.We really don't know what happens. You assumed that's what happens. Personally, I think she did wanted it. e did hint at the sailor v manga.T hat Venus x Kunzite were a couple. But that is still left to interpretation. That was at after the sailor moon manga was complete. Also, she did not have as much control with the manga. She still had to follow Ops advice. Either way will never know. Also how does Senshi x shitenou erases a gay couple.That was in another continuity in the first place.Kunzite,and zoisite at not gay in the manga?

 

[SailorSugababe]

I honestly don't see how or why Osabu would prevent Senshi/Shitennou he let her other romantic pairings happen so why not them? Plus it is a shoujo series so if anything that could add to the story.
If she really wanted Senshi/Shitennou then she could have easily put it in the manga explicitly and being that it is a shoujo series with romance being a major them this would fit in with the established theme and she could have easily told the makers of the first anime that the Senshi and Shitennou were meant to be paired together just like she did with Usagi and Mamoru and Haruka and Michiru. You can't find any version of Sailor Moon in Japan where Usagi and Mamoru and Haruka and Michiru are not lovers. It is clear she toyed with the idea of Senshi/Shitennou and decided not to use it. If she really wanted to she could have made them permanent lovers in all continuities just like Usagi and Mamoru and Haruka and Michiru. So I don't buy for one minute that she couldn't put these pairings in a shoujo series with romance as a main plot of the story for Christ's sake.

Thats true. Manga and the 90s anime are often DRASTICALLY different so if Naoko really wanted SenshixShittennou she could've easily put them in the manga at some point (Crystal Tokyo? Dream arc end? Wedding scene?). I dont see why anyone would stop her.

Also the 90s anime universe did acknowledge shittennou being Mamorus guardians in the PC engine game. They even did a first step to acknowledge the pairings (by putting senshi against their respective partners and later on shittenou lending powers to their respective senshi)

 

[MsImagination]

Me rolling my eyes. She is not the charge of all versions of sailor moon. At least not in the 90s.We really don't know what happens. You assumed that's what happens. Personally, I think she did wanted it. e did hint at the sailor v manga.T hat Venus x Kunzite were a couple. But that is still left to interpretation. That was at after the sailor moon manga was complete. Also, she did not have as much control with the manga. She still had to follow Ops advice. Either way will never know.

Thats true. Manga and the 90s anime are often DRASTICALLY different so if Naoko really wanted SenshixShittennou she could've easily put them in the manga at some point (Crystal Tokyo? Dream arc end? Wedding scene?). I dont see why anyone would stop her.

Also the 90s anime universe did acknowledge shittennou being Mamorus guardians in the PC engine game. They even did a first step to acknowledge the pairings (by putting senshi against their respective partners and later on shittenou lending powers to their respective senshi)

Also in the first musical they made them couples in the past.In all musicals that have shitenou,and Senshi.They always seem to tease them.

 

[sapphire91]

Naoko wanted thougher yanki Ma
ko, it was not allowed, she wanted A cyborg Ami not allowed. She wantedpink haired usa not allowed. She wanted to make the inners to diein a heartbracking and dramatic way in dArk kingdom arcnot allowed.Afterthe first story ark she had more freedom and used her ideas with different characters.At the begining she had been moreunder control of osabu, that is why i cited his name specifically.

 

[E. Knight]

If you read interviews to famous mangakas, they always comment things that their ideas must be aproved by the editors, so they don't have as much control as some people may think. I remember Naoko saying somewhere that Ami was going to be a robot! and she had planned an idea of her perishing in a very sad scene, but she was not allowed to continue that idea. Maybe now, being all important, she could do whatever she wants with her story but, back then? I doubt it.

 

[JunoDX]

I really don't like the Inners x Generals romance in Crystal. It's so boring to pair them. I prefer how it has been solved in the 90s anime, every girl has her own love-story with normal humans and the generals are individual, too. I do also like that the Inner senshi in the past only served the princess and their duty did not allow romance.

 

[Starlight]

Also the 90s anime universe did acknowledge shittennou being Mamorus guardians in the PC engine game. They even did a first step to acknowledge the pairings (by putting senshi against their respective partners and later on shittenou lending powers to their respective senshi)

It's so ironic that a '90s video game managed to do the Senshi x Shittenou pairing more justice than the entire first season of Crystal.