Eternal Is A Byproduct Of Trying To Please Everyone

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Clow

Stella
Jul 29, 2012
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#81
I am sure Naoko feels betrayed at what TOEI did, I think what Happened to Sailor Stars seems to be a consequence of what TOEI did to Ikuhara by not approving the Super S movie he wanted to make and not having him in Sailor Stars, and Naoko supporting TOEI's decision.
Are you sure that’s true? I have never heard about any evidence supporting those claims.

All that is known is that Naoko had disagreements with TOEI over royalties and purchased the broadcasting rights of the 90’s anime.
 

kasumigenx

Lumen Cinererum
Feb 8, 2021
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#82
Are you sure that’s true? I have never heard about any evidence supporting those claims.

All that is known is that Naoko had disagreements with TOEI over royalties and purchased the broadcasting rights of the 90’s anime.
That is my opinion, reworded what I said earlier.
Prior to the Production of Sailor Stars, from what I read in the Dream Arc artbook or Artbook 4 it looks like that she was enthusiastic and optimistic at that season but she was surprised that Sailor Stars turned out different from what she planned.
 
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Hadibou

Luna Nova
Jul 6, 2012
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#83
Are you sure that’s true? I have never heard about any evidence supporting those claims.

All that is known is that Naoko had disagreements with TOEI over royalties and purchased the broadcasting rights of the 90’s anime.
I don't really buy this "Toei betraying Naoko" theory.
Yes Toei certainly did have difficulties working with her, and as she was very busy releasing the manga (and probably writing partially the scenario on the way in a way that was making TOEI life hard), they had to improvise on some things. I have the feeling that they were not a lot of communication between the 2 parts and the anime staff ended mostly ignored her. She clearly said (when she went in Paris in late 1990's I think ?) that she discovered the anime ending on TV and had no idea it would end this way. That says something about their relationshionship.

Beyond all that, she didn't seem to understand the rules of anime: it was made to sell toys. And besides for Usagi, other guardians didn't get transformations items of other devices from arc 3, so that anime had to invent these items themselves. It was clearly a source of income and she could have easily created wands, items etc., but she somewhat self sabotaged the series refusing to incorporate in the manga some even some of Bandai's idea (she didn't even have to design these items, Bandai probably had lot of ideas to make cash, she just had to past items on her panels ^^).
She had to compromise with the Starlights design giving them long hair because Bandai complained that dolls with short hairs would not sell well, but she clearly didn't like it.

Also, her designs were less and less easy to animate for the anime staff (in my opinion it's also why we never got the eternal forms besides ESM). She added so much details that are typically hard to animate (stars everywhere, feathers, weird chocker form...) that I sometimes wonder if she didn't do this on purpose. She complains that the anime didn't follow her story but what did she expect when she started Stars and killed all guardians very early in the series ?... Did she really think little girls would enjoy a full year with inners and outers dead ?

She is probably not totally innocent in this whole SuperS / Stars mess.
 

kasumigenx

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Feb 8, 2021
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#84
I don't really buy this "Toei betraying Naoko" theory.
Yes Toei certainly did have difficulties working with her, and as she was very busy releasing the manga (and probably writing partially the scenario on the way in a way that was making TOEI life hard), they had to improvise on some things. I have the feeling that they were not a lot of communication between the 2 parts and the anime staff ended mostly ignored her. She clearly said (when she went in Paris in late 1990's I think ?) that she discovered the anime ending on TV and had no idea it would end this way. That says something about their relationshionship.

Beyond all that, she didn't seem to understand the rules of anime: it was made to sell toys. And besides for Usagi, other guardians didn't get transformations items of other devices from arc 3, so that anime had to invent these items themselves. It was clearly a source of income and she could have easily created wands, items etc., but she somewhat self sabotaged the series refusing to incorporate in the manga some even some of Bandai's idea (she didn't even have to design these items, Bandai probably had lot of ideas to make cash, she just had to past items on her panels ^^).
She had to compromise with the Starlights design giving them long hair because Bandai complained that dolls with short hairs would not sell well, but she clearly didn't like it.

Also, her designs were less and less easy to animate for the anime staff (in my opinion it's also why we never got the eternal forms besides ESM). She added so much details that are typically hard to animate (stars everywhere, feathers, weird chocker form...) that I sometimes wonder if she didn't do this on purpose. She complains that the anime didn't follow her story but what did she expect when she started Stars and killed all guardians very early in the series ?... Did she really think little girls would enjoy a full year with inners and outers dead ?

She is probably not totally innocent in this whole SuperS / Stars mess.
That is what I am trying to say earlier, her other issue is that she supported TOEI's decision of not hiring Ikuhara in the Sailor Stars anime and them rejecting his plans for the Super S movie with Haruka and Michiru.
 
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Likes: Starlight
#86
No, it is her husband who needs help. Naoko helped him with his work, allegedly. He is ill—or allegedly pretends to be ill, according to his readers—and my impression is that he just wants to work and develop his own ideas organically, without being rushed or demanded to draw or craft narratives when he does not want or wish to do so. Being a mangaka is a very exhausting job and I think both Naoko and her husband know that.
That's true. Manga artists are really overwhelmed when meeting deadlines.
 

Jawshx

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Dec 1, 2020
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#87
Sato would be a dream and possible seeing as he still does work for Toei as he directed the Doremi movie and Hugtto Precure. However I feel maybe he’d decline if it was just a straight up 1:1 adaptation. Although he seems to do good work even within tight restrictions so who knows.

I don’t blame Kon though. If her brief was to fit everything into a little more than a 2 hour run time and yet still have it be a faithful 1:1 adaptation is an almost impossible task without it feeling rushed. Plus you also have Naoko vetting everything.

I don’t really think there’s any point diverging from the manga at this stage by doing anything drastic. Tying up some of the loose ends would be the most I could probably realistically ask for. Changing up the entire structure, changing directors. It’s messy and do we really need anymore mess from the show that has already stumbled it’s way through to this point? Do we really wanna wait another 4 years for the conclusion?

They finally have a (somewhat) winning formula now, with the animation looking decent and the character designs which most of us can agree on as being nice. If they really wanna do Stars justice and flesh things out, make it feel less rushed, a TV series would be ideal. But then that would be more inconsistency and mess, so I just hope the next movies are serviceable and enjoyable for what they are and we can have a decent conclusion to this whole saga.
 

kasumigenx

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Feb 8, 2021
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#88
She created the Idea for the Super S movie so basically, that is a gesture that she supported them in their decision against Ikuhara.

Sato would be a dream and possible seeing as he still does work for Toei as he directed the Doremi movie and Hugtto Precure. However I feel maybe he’d decline if it was just a straight up 1:1 adaptation. Although he seems to do good work even within tight restrictions so who knows.

I don’t blame Kon though. If her brief was to fit everything into a little more than a 2 hour run time and yet still have it be a faithful 1:1 adaptation is an almost impossible task without it feeling rushed. Plus you also have Naoko vetting everything.

I don’t really think there’s any point diverging from the manga at this stage by doing anything drastic. Tying up some of the loose ends would be the most I could probably realistically ask for. Changing up the entire structure, changing directors. It’s messy and do we really need anymore mess from the show that has already stumbled it’s way through to this point? Do we really wanna wait another 4 years for the conclusion?

They finally have a (somewhat) winning formula now, with the animation looking decent and the character designs which most of us can agree on as being nice. If they really wanna do Stars justice and flesh things out, make it feel less rushed, a TV series would be ideal. But then that would be more inconsistency and mess, so I just hope the next movies are serviceable and enjoyable for what they are and we can have a decent conclusion to this whole saga.
If they want to diverge it, diverge it in the way that Naoko intended it to be animated back then, that is what they did in the Eternal Movies in some details, I suspect that is where they heading to.
 
Jul 29, 2012
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#89
She created the Idea for the Super S movie so basically, that is a gesture that she supported them in their decision against Ikuhara.
According to my understanding, there is no evidence of a feud between Takeuchi and Ikuhara. He left TOEI to create Revolutionary Girl Utena and work on his own projects. Gain more freedom.

The only time Naoko wrote something that could have hurt Ikuhara’s feelings was when she wrote that she was not happy with the R movie—because the story deviated from the one she was crafting. Despite this fact, Naoko apologized to the animation team. She also acknowledged that the existence of the R movie, which she did not like, was due to the fact that both the manga and the anime were being created simultaneously.

There are many rumors, but, to date, there is no known evidence that Naoko is responsible for Ikuhara leaving TOEI.
 

kasumigenx

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Feb 8, 2021
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#91
According to my understanding, there is no evidence of a feud between Takeuchi and Ikuhara. He left TOEI to create Revolutionary Girl Utena and work on his own projects. Gain more freedom.

The only time Naoko wrote something that could have hurt Ikuhara’s feelings was when she wrote that she was not happy with the R movie—because the story deviated from the one she was crafting. Despite this fact, Naoko apologized to the animation team. She also acknowledged that the existence of the R movie, which she did not like, was due to the fact that both the manga and the anime were being created simultaneously.

There are many rumors, but, to date, there is no known evidence that Naoko is responsible for Ikuhara leaving TOEI.
It is TOEI, but what I am trying to tell is that she had her own part in him leaving Sailor Moon although not directly.
 

kasumigenx

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Feb 8, 2021
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#94
For me the SuperS movie was the worst. Aside from the art and animation it was boring as hell. The S movie was good but honestly would’ve been better without the throwaway villain. R just hits all the right spots of romance, action and funny.
We could have had Ikuhara's Super S movie instead of that.
 
Likes: Starlight

kasumigenx

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Feb 8, 2021
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#95
I would have wanted if Takeuchi and the staff of Crystal to explore more of the theme of Stars in the Manga and detail more what has been left off aside from just adding what Takeuchi wanted to do in the 90s anime.
 
Jul 29, 2012
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#97
Creators can be funny. R is the best movie hands down, in my opinion. Kinda reminds me of Stephen King and his hatred of The Shining, even though it’s considered a classic.
Kubrick’s “The Shining” is considered a classic, but Kubrick greatly distorted King’s characters. King wrote Wendy as a strong woman, but according to film critics Kubrick’s Wendy is one of the most misogynistic characters ever put on film. And King hated Kubrick’s Wendy.

Creators perceive their own works differently. The R film feels much more like a Kunihiko Ikuhara film than a film that came from Naoko’s heart or from the story she was crafting—and she certainly felt that way.
 
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#98
Kubrick’s “The Shining” is considered a classic, but Kubrick greatly distorted King’s characters. King wrote Wendy as a strong woman, but according to film critics Kubrick’s Wendy is one of the most misogynistic characters ever put on film. And King hated Kubrick’s Wendy.

Creators perceive their own works differently. The R film feels much more like a Kunihiko Ikuhara film than a film that came from Naoko’s heart or from the story she was crafting—and she certainly felt that way.
Yeah just because itss a good movie.That does not mean it's a good adaptation.Just like just because it's good adaption dosen't make it a good film.
 
Jul 29, 2012
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#99
I liked the R movie when I first watched it—and no, I had not read Naoko’s manga by the time that I did it. My personal opinion is that the R movie is 100% a Kunihiko Ikuhara film. I do not think that Naoko would ever draw Sailor Moon crucified like Jesus Christ while alien flowers are sucking out her energy. If you like the 90’s anime and Ikuhara’s ideas, then, yes, I can understand why you believe the R movie is the best.

Personally, I prefer Crysternal and the manga and, for me, the S movie is the best movie—it is my favorite.