I Am Disgusted.

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Jul 31, 2012
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#21
I dont lump Sailor Moon into hentai or even ecchi territory. If I want to look at such types of anime I will watch Cutey Honey.

I really don't watch hentai though I have nothing against it. I've seen a few in the past just out of curiosity.

Sailor Moon as an anime is not blaring with sexuality. Some of the products such as condoms and women's lingerie and what not can be used with being sexy.

While, I don't care what folks do or how they depict them on their own, I have no control over how ages are viewed in other countries. Some countries have lower age brackets than my own.

However, hentai is expected. As I've learned, nearly every cartoon or game character I've grown up with has been depicted in some graphic imagery that I was shocked to see from the Simpsons to Disney film characters..
 
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#22
When you make a new thread and expect other people to respond, it would help if you provided some context. "Certain things" (what things?), "these people" (which people?), "said thing I'm talking about" (you didn't say what thing you are talking about), "everything that is wrong in this world" (what is wrong?). I have no clue what all of this is about.

Your post sounds like it belongs to some other discussion/argument about "things", which started somewhere else. But for people like me, who just click on new threads, and are not familiar with the context of this argument, it's impossible to figure out what you are talking about.
I, too, am completely confused as to what people are complaining about. Is the OP and everyone else agreeing with the video? Disagreeing with the video?

I guess I'm in the minority because everyone else in this thread figured it out but me.
 

SailorSpySedna

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May 18, 2016
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#23
I dont lump Sailor Moon into hentai or even ecchi territory. If I want to look at such types of anime I will watch Cutey Honey.

I really don't watch hentai though I have nothing against it. I've seen a few in the past just out of curiosity.

Sailor Moon as an anime is not blaring with sexuality. Some of the products such as condoms and women's lingerie and what not can be used with being sexy.

While, I don't care what folks do or how they depict them on their own, I have no control over how ages are viewed in other countries. Some countries have lower age brackets than my own.

However, hentai is expected. As I've learned, nearly every cartoon or game character I've grown up with has been depicted in some graphic imagery that I was shocked to see from the Simpsons to Disney film characters..
Sadly that's the case with Rule 34. If something exists, porn exists...
 

Yinggirl

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Jul 21, 2003
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#24
As someone who seen the forums changed over the years with their everyone's opinion on hentai, especially allowing to fester and get called off as a privileged by pinpointing it out, it's nice to see we can all get along.

Was that tastless for using Sailor Moon to do lewd? Maybe. Should I be offended? Depends, unless you think a drawing is an actual person, then go away of being offended. Drawings can't physically hurt you. They are just drawn thoughts of the artist. Are we going vent at Naoko for doing nudity in Eternity artbook because of this?

I follow uncoventionalsenshi & kukuruyoart. Both have drawn lewd for a living and I don't go out of my way to be offended because I'm a consenting adult.

In conclusion, you can do the redraw if you like. Yes, there are pervs out there. But you shouldn't let one pervert ruin your ability to draw something.
 

SailorSpySedna

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#25
Like I said, what Naoko did was most likely, if I'm correct, artistic in nature, not for prurient interests, she wouldn't draw excessive fanservice for males so as not to turn off her female readers.
 

MariaTenebre

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Jul 22, 2009
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#26
Like I said, what Naoko did was most likely, if I'm correct, artistic in nature, not for prurient interests, she wouldn't draw excessive fanservice for males so as not to turn off her female readers.
Actually Naoko did say that she tried to appeal to male viewers with sexy women and likewise most women like sexy, confident and sexualized depictions of women. Honestly the only ones that don't are the SJW woke feminists and radfems and also conservative patriarchal religions. Also I see nothing wrong with rule 34. Honestly if it irks you that anything can be made into fake porn on the internet then you must have very privileged lives. Again I think that one of the major reasons for the backlash against the left is because of the left's support for censorship. Originally the right was the main proponent of censorship and obscenity laws in the West but now the left has taken up that mantle. In fact the authoritarian left like the woke SJW feminists and radfems have aligned with religious conservatives to ban media they don't like. Catherine McKinnon a famous anti porn feminist even bemoaned the first amendment for allowing things like porn because she believed it "exploited women." Even Margaret Atwood wrote about the anti porn feminists collusion with the religious right in her book The Handmaids's Tale. I hope they include this scene on the new series but I don't think they will because they know it will anger the SJW and rad feminists.
 

SILVER

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Jan 7, 2014
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#27
Actually Naoko did say that she tried to appeal to male viewers with sexy women and likewise most women like sexy, confident and sexualized depictions of women. Honestly the only ones that don't are the SJW woke feminists and radfems and also conservative patriarchal religions. Also I see nothing wrong with rule 34. Honestly if it irks you that anything can be made into fake porn on the internet then you must have very privileged lives. Again I think that one of the major reasons for the backlash against the left is because of the left's support for censorship. Originally the right was the main proponent of censorship and obscenity laws in the West but now the left has taken up that mantle. In fact the authoritarian left like the woke SJW feminists and radfems have aligned with religious conservatives to ban media they don't like. Catherine McKinnon a famous anti porn feminist even bemoaned the first amendment for allowing things like porn because she believed it "exploited women." Even Margaret Atwood wrote about the anti porn feminists collusion with the religious right in her book The Handmaids's Tale. I hope they include this scene on the new series but I don't think they will because they know it will anger the SJW and rad feminists.
can you make a point without disparaging the "EvUl SJWs"? Give the respect that others afford you back.
 
Jun 30, 2010
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#28
Okay, so basically the discussion is whether or not lewd redraws are acceptable or not.

First of all, I looked at about a minute of that video and I was done. It was done by another person who wants attention on YouTube for airing an opinion. I don't subscribe to people who want attention on YouTube for airing their opinion, especially those who make money discussing other people's intellectual properties.

Second, I've grown moderate in my old age. On one hand, I believe people should be free to redraw anything however they want, no matter how offensive the content may be. Also, it's the Internet. People look up nude and lewd things on the Internet, and those things get the clicks, so it's going to happen. These are fictional characters. They don't have rights. Anyone should be able to do anything with them, even if it means abominations like Oscar and Chibi-Usa's 7th birthday. Don't like. Don't look. Don't support those who create it, but leave them be.

On the other hand, just because people are free do to it doesn't mean that people shouldn't be allowed to voice their distaste or push against it. Sailor Moon, while having an older audience, is a franchise that is aimed at children. In this case "think of the children" is a valid argument to criticize, because as a society we do separate kids media from adult media and we have different standards for each. You can't say that there is nothing objectionable about titillating imagery when the character herself is never displayed in that light in the anime. Artists are interjecting an element to the character that is not there (thus encouraging more people to see her that way) and sexualizing a shot that was clearly neutral for more views is a gross misuse of someone else's property, and doesn't comment on the original shot at all. There are also problematic aspects in that the character is only 15 years old in that screencap, and many of the largely adult artists don't want to address that projecting lewdness onto a minor, even one who is fiction, post-pubescent, and looks like an adult, is not a healthy mindset.

Many people like Sailor Moon because it isn't full of the juiciness thirsty people desire. Hey, if I want to see something exciting, I would not be going to Sailor Moon. I like it because it's tame. Trying to spice it up ruins what I like about it. However, there are plenty of of other people who do not feel the same way. I'd only hope that the same people who are fine with lewd redraws extend that same appreciation to racebent, genderbent, and other transformative redraws.

What another person draws shouldn't stop anyone from participating. People create because they have a vision they want others to see. I don't participate because I can't draw for beans, but OP, if you have an idea, don't let what other create people stop you.
 

MariaTenebre

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Jul 22, 2009
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#29
can you make a point without disparaging the "EvUl SJWs"? Give the respect that others afford you back.
I don't have respect for SJWs or what feminism has become. When you try to be censorious and come for my entertainment or the things I like I have no respect for you what so ever. I would also say this is true with regards to conservative far right religious and authoritarian types who try to censor stuff in media and yes both the far left especially SJW feminists and radfems and the far right have aligned with each other to ban media they deem as "obscene", "objectifying", and "degrading." Again you can go back to the feminists aligning with the religious right to enact prohibition, to ban obscene material in movies which lead to the Hayes code which again actresses like Gloria Swanson will tell you and beyond that feminists in the anti porn movement like Catherine McKinnon and Andrea Dworkin who did ally with the religious right to ban media they dislike which was basically things which feature sexy women. Things honestly have been more of the same as both the woke SJW feminists and the radfems are equally anti sex especially anti sexualization of women and despise male heterosexuality as much as certain religions (you know who they are) despise homosexuality. That is why there has been this move in Western comics, media games to desexualize and masculinize women because the SJWs think that women can't be both respected and be sexualized and feminine. In actuality they agree with the misogynists that feminine sexuality and femininity is degrading and lesser to masculinity. Their solutions are only what is different. Where as the patriarch would say that women should be controlled and their sexuality suppressed or as the Iconic Siouxsie Sioux in her genuinely feminist song Arabian Knights said "veiled behind screens kept as your baby machines." The woke SJW feminist and radfems solution to this is to masculinize and desexualize women. They both are in reality on the same side whether they know it or not. In fact the Chelouranyans a modern Feminine Essentialist and arguably genuine Feminine Supremacist group that regards the Feminine as the Supreme in all aspects calls modern woke SJW feminists and radfems "the patriarch's feminism" and that both the patriarchal misogynists and the woke SJW feminists and rad feminists are what ultimately what contributes to the psychotic defeminized world we live in which has been the patriarchal misogynists goal to defeminize all aspects of society and woke SJW feminism and rad feminism believes in just that as well. I disagree with the Chelouranyans on many issues but on this issue they are absolutely right. That is why you hear the woke feminists and SJWs on twitter whenever a woman is drawn feminine, confident and sexy saying ridiculous stuff like "where are their organs." Proving they have as much knowledge on organs as Invader Zim did. Except Zim had the excuse that he was an alien. These SJWs and radfems have no excuse. Then again I think we all know the majority of them are not in STEM as their views are as incompatible to STEM as say a fundamentalist religious person or a creationist. They pretty much hate whenever a confident, feminine sexualized, physically fit and beautiful woman is depicted in media because they know they can't compete with her. It is why I call these women Karens, Lydias, Serena Joys or Eves where as I call the confident feminine, sexy and sexualized woman Liliths or Jolenes.

However no I have no respect for people who try to censor media especially media I enjoy. If I didn't tolerate it from the religious right then you must have fallen off of the turnip truck if I take it from male gaze monster SJWs. This one Youtuber I followed even said it rather well. Honestly if Sailor Moon were made today and not in the 90s the male gaze monsters would despise it. They would call Naoko Takeuchi a "internalized misogynist" for liking sexualized and "pornified" depictions of women in her works and say that Naoko was catering to "the male gaze" and saying "where are their organs" about the Sailor Senshi etc. They would even call Naoko Takeuchi a pedophile for depicting sexualized teenagers who have sex even tough teenagers do just that. This twitter debacle has proven just that.

Okay, so basically the discussion is whether or not lewd redraws are acceptable or not.

First of all, I looked at about a minute of that video and I was done. It was done by another person who wants attention on YouTube for airing an opinion. I don't subscribe to people who want attention on YouTube for airing their opinion, especially those who make money discussing other people's intellectual properties.

Second, I've grown moderate in my old age. On one hand, I believe people should be free to redraw anything however they want, no matter how offensive the content may be. Also, it's the Internet. People look up nude and lewd things on the Internet, and those things get the clicks, so it's going to happen. These are fictional characters. They don't have rights. Anyone should be able to do anything with them, even if it means abominations like Oscar and Chibi-Usa's 7th birthday. Don't like. Don't look. Don't support those who create it, but leave them be.

On the other hand, just because people are free do to it doesn't mean that people shouldn't be allowed to voice their distaste or push against it. Sailor Moon, while having an older audience, is a franchise that is aimed at children. In this case "think of the children" is a valid argument to criticize, because as a society we do separate kids media from adult media and we have different standards for each. You can't say that there is nothing objectionable about titillating imagery when the character herself is never displayed in that light in the anime. Artists are interjecting an element to the character that is not there (thus encouraging more people to see her that way) and sexualizing a shot that was clearly neutral for more views is a gross misuse of someone else's property, and doesn't comment on the original shot at all. There are also problematic aspects in that the character is only 15 years old in that screencap, and many of the largely adult artists don't want to address that projecting lewdness onto a minor, even one who is fiction, post-pubescent, and looks like an adult, is not a healthy mindset.

Many people like Sailor Moon because it isn't full of the juiciness thirsty people desire. Hey, if I want to see something exciting, I would not be going to Sailor Moon. I like it because it's tame. Trying to spice it up ruins what I like about it. However, there are plenty of of other people who do not feel the same way. I'd only hope that the same people who are fine with lewd redraws extend that same appreciation to racebent, genderbent, and other transformative redraws.

What another person draws shouldn't stop anyone from participating. People create because they have a vision they want others to see. I don't participate because I can't draw for beans, but OP, if you have an idea, don't let what other create people stop you.
First of all that is a nonsense. While Sailor Moon is intended for children there is nothing wrong with making porn of it. Obviously if you a minor you shouldn't see that especially if you are a kid but that is the job of the parents to monitor their kids internet activities not ours. Also Naoko Takeuchi and the artists of the 90s anime did draw Usagi and the others in lewd lights and did sexualize her. There are plenty of pics drawn by Naoko herself depicting Usagi nude or in sexual situations. There were pinups of her in lingerie and even pinups of her topless. Naoko herself "spiced" the series up with sexual scenes in her manga and even in the 90s anime. I know you Nadia are mainly a dub fan but on the original show and in the manga there were spicy and lewd scenes. Also as for Usagi's age she is a 15 year old number 1 countless teens her age then and to this day are sexualizing themselves wearing revealing clothes and even having promiscuous sex. I know that you all like to pretend that teenagers are no different then innocent children but in reality Mama's Little Angel is as we speak having sex with her boyfriend and probably alot of the guys on the football team. Ditto for the boys she sleeps with. As I said before when I was in Middle School I was literally the only person not having a bunch of promiscuous sex. In fact the situation was so bad in my brother's high school and you know we live in the South where they have this idea that teens are just lie prepubescent children so we have abstinence only education and how did that work out for us. The South has huge rates of teen pregnancy and repeat teen pregnancy rates as well as huge STD rates. The city of Atlanta has such a huge HIV problem that the CDC has said that the entire city should be on PREP. In fact Syphilis is even making a comeback in the South. So again if you don't like sexy or sexualize media don't watch it. However I guarantee you Usagi herself was getting banged out by Mamoru, Haruka and Michiru were having sexy times, Zoisite is Kunzite's beloved catamite, Naru and Umino are probably boffing etc. If you think otherwise well I have a bridge to sell you and a Nigerian Prince I know who needs your money as he is in a bady way. Of course he will pay you back though so don't worry. I swear I think it is so ridiculous that my generation went from a people so against censorship to basically a bunch of pearl clutching Wealthy Dowagers who scream "Well I never!" Whenever they see anything sexual or lewd. Honestly I think so many people are no different then that religious mother on that garbage Lifetime Pregnancy Pact movie who thinks "Oh my little angel would never do anything like that she is a innocent child she will wait when she is married." Meanwhile girl could almost compete with Babylon the Great with how promiscuous she is. Oh and of course there is no similar issue with teen boys. Tons of these male gaze monsters sexualize male teens like the Twilight guys or Tom Holland as Spider-Man but of course "it is different when men do it." By Felicia. I mean teen boys are also messing around too I mean how do you think these girls get pregnant. I mean my dad even had a bunch of illigetimate children. I am his only legitimate child. So you all need to take off those Rose Tinted Glasses and gain some Dark Wisdom.
 
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SailorSpySedna

Lumen Cinereum
May 18, 2016
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#30
Okay, so basically the discussion is whether or not lewd redraws are acceptable or not.

First of all, I looked at about a minute of that video and I was done. It was done by another person who wants attention on YouTube for airing an opinion. I don't subscribe to people who want attention on YouTube for airing their opinion, especially those who make money discussing other people's intellectual properties.

Second, I've grown moderate in my old age. On one hand, I believe people should be free to redraw anything however they want, no matter how offensive the content may be. Also, it's the Internet. People look up nude and lewd things on the Internet, and those things get the clicks, so it's going to happen. These are fictional characters. They don't have rights. Anyone should be able to do anything with them, even if it means abominations like Oscar and Chibi-Usa's 7th birthday. Don't like. Don't look. Don't support those who create it, but leave them be.

On the other hand, just because people are free do to it doesn't mean that people shouldn't be allowed to voice their distaste or push against it. Sailor Moon, while having an older audience, is a franchise that is aimed at children. In this case "think of the children" is a valid argument to criticize, because as a society we do separate kids media from adult media and we have different standards for each. You can't say that there is nothing objectionable about titillating imagery when the character herself is never displayed in that light in the anime. Artists are interjecting an element to the character that is not there (thus encouraging more people to see her that way) and sexualizing a shot that was clearly neutral for more views is a gross misuse of someone else's property, and doesn't comment on the original shot at all. There are also problematic aspects in that the character is only 15 years old in that screencap, and many of the largely adult artists don't want to address that projecting lewdness onto a minor, even one who is fiction, post-pubescent, and looks like an adult, is not a healthy mindset.

Many people like Sailor Moon because it isn't full of the juiciness thirsty people desire. Hey, if I want to see something exciting, I would not be going to Sailor Moon. I like it because it's tame. Trying to spice it up ruins what I like about it. However, there are plenty of of other people who do not feel the same way. I'd only hope that the same people who are fine with lewd redraws extend that same appreciation to racebent, genderbent, and other transformative redraws.

What another person draws shouldn't stop anyone from participating. People create because they have a vision they want others to see. I don't participate because I can't draw for beans, but OP, if you have an idea, don't let what other create people stop you.
I agree, the other hand is what I'm trying to get across.

And thanks, I won't. I'm just frustrated with how some people have reacted over this.
 
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