In Defense of Cloverway

  • This site uses cookies. By continuing to use this site, you are agreeing to our use of cookies. Learn more.

Neon Genesis

Luna Crescens
Oct 31, 2015
2,332
248
165
#1
I know a lot of fans really hate the Cloverway dub but honestly I personally enjoyed it when it first came on Toonami. As a big fan of the Japanese soundtrack, I always appreciated they kept the original Japanese score in the dub. The episodes were still more faithful to the original than DiC and they actually dubbed all of S and SuperS too instead of skipping or combining a bunch of episodes. It also seemed like they let up on the censorship like actually allowing the characters to slap each other and they even kept blood in the Toonami version in the Uranus flashback episode. I remember being really shocked to see they kept that when it first aired on Toonami. Cloverway's dub cast gets a bad rap because of Serena and Amy's new VAs not being all that great, but honestly, most of the rest was perfectly fine to me. Amara's VA did a fine job of being both masculine and feminine at the same time to me and apparently her actress has done a lot of live action TV work too. They just borrowed Ikuko Mama's dub VA to use for Michelle but I thought she did a good job of handling her maturity and elegance. Hotaru's voice was cute and Trista's was just fine. I personally actually liked Mina's Cloverway VA more than her DiC one. Her DiC was ok but I always felt like she came across a little too average. Cloverway's Mina did a better job to me of bringing out the goofiness of her character but I think she still did a good job with the serious roles. The villains all had really good VAs too and I don't just mean Professor Tomoe. Mistress Nine, the Witches 5, Kaornite, the Quartet, and Nehelina, all had good VAs to me.

I also loved Tigerseye and Fisheye's VAs though I didn't care for Zirconia and hated Fisheye's. I think the biggest problem Cloverway's dub had was Serena and Am's new VAs, the horrible way they handled Haruka and Michiru, and the overuse of valleygirl slang. But if we're comparing to all the skipped episodes and music and personality changes in the DIC dub, I feel like Cloverway's problems pale in comparison. I think it would have been a lot better if they just kept Haruka and Michiru's relationship ambiguous and cut out all the hand holding scenes like they did in episode 92 and tone down all the valleygirl slang. In fairness to Linda Ballatyne, I think she did a better job when she was acting for Princess Serenity and she seemed to be acing in her natural speaking voice instead of trying to make herself sound like Terri Hawkes. And I just can't bring myself to hate her when she always seems very enthusiastic about Sailor Moon and I think she gets a bit of an unfair bad rap when really Terri wasn't that much better than Linda. Of course Cloverway also gave us the amazing Sugar Baybee as Rini. What are your thoughts about the Cloverway dub? Do you think it deserves the hate that it gets or do you think there are more merits to it than people give it credit for?
 

PteraRanger

Lapis Lunaris
Apr 25, 2016
400
2
0
#2
Haruka's voice actor was monotone and just not what I imagined for someone like her character. And Setsuna's was borderline valley girl. And Nehelenia's actor's laugh was painful to listen to. Won't even go into Zirconia's Yoda voice. Usagi's new actor got better as the series went on, but the dialogue didn't help.

The biggest issues with Cloverway's handling of S and SuperS were the scripts and lack of continuity. They couldn't keep attack names (Moon Super Moon Target one episode, Super Moon Target the next... Uranus World Shaking one episode, just World Shaking the next) or character names straight whatsoever. Sometimes the script would be almost faithful to the original, and then a lot of the time, there'd be some glaring changes that were either unnecessary or simply idiotic. Not to mention the horrible dialogue changes. Like in the episode where the Sailor Senshi fought Zirconia, Sailor Moon kept saying "Girl Power" over and over when she wasn't grunting. There was also the irritating addition of ruining choice silence with pointless dialogue. It's like the writers did not understand tension or the simple power of silence to convey mood.

Were the script writers really out of touch? They used a lot of awkward slang.

[youtube]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tijolR0Pjzs[/youtube]

And I remember Chibiusa's friend saying "phat" one episode. Ugh. The DiC dub had its share of flaws, but I'd rather hear Mercury tell Kunzite/Malachite to go bleach his roots over Chibiusa's boy classmate uttering, "Say, I was just wondering. Would you maybe want to kick it back with me?" And the writers somehow made Fisheye targeting some underage boy even creepier than it already was ("I can’t wait to hook up with you, my sweet little soccer star.").
 

Neon Genesis

Luna Crescens
Oct 31, 2015
2,332
248
165
#3
Cloverway's inconsistency was annoying but DiC could also be just as inconsistent. I lost track of how many times DiC kept changing Serena's I will punish you speech. Some episodes they'd get it right but other episodes they would have her say "On behalf of the moon." DiC was also guilty of changing attack names like with Moon Specter Elimination versus Moon Scepter Activation. At one point in the DiC dub they goofed up on their own names and called them Sailor Soldiers like they're supposed to be instead of Sailor Scouts but then went back to calling them Scouts. Apparently the Cloverway dub director was French and didn't speak English so maybe she was trying to guess what she thought would be hip slang for English speaking fans?
 
Apr 20, 2012
2,222
101
165
26
Texas
skelenator-rainbow.tumblr.com
#4
I do think the Cloverway dub gets looked upon a bit harshly at times. I'm not denying it has its fair share of issues, but so did the DiC dub. Just like DiC or the Japanese version/Viz dub, I think it's worth mentioning its pros in addition to its flaws.

I think one of the biggest flaws with Cloverway's dub was how rushed its production was. Most of its issues (inconsistencies in the script, below average quality for vocal performances, etc.) can actually be traced back to that single issue. But the fact the dub turned out as well as it did despite those issues is kinda impressive. By the time SuperS rolled around, there was a pretty decent, consistent quality to the dub.
 
Jul 15, 2012
319
14
15
27
USA
#5
sailormoonpedia said:
(Moon Super Moon Target one episode, Super Moon Target the next... Uranus World Shaking one episode, just World Shaking the next) or character names straight whatsoever.
I'm gonna get made fun of for this--not by you, sailormoonpedia, but probably by other people--but I have heard the first time that "attack name" was given with good headphones, and I can personally attest that there is no "ooh" noise in the middle. She goes "Mmh, Super Moon Target!" . It is not Moon Super Moon. (Gasp, you mean Sailor Moon Uncensored lied in the middle of their "lolfunnayyy" death threats to Cloverway?!?!?! OH MY GOD, WHO WOULD HAVE THOUGHT!!! The "funny symbols" line is often misquoted thanks to those so-and-sos as well. It's still completely stupid, but the actual line is Lita's: "How could you read it? It's nothing but symbols!" There is no mention of the kanji being called "funny" or anything like that.)

I would also like to say that the censorship of Haruka and Michiru's relationship was not the fault of the dubbing production. Read up on this article here to find more information about that.
 

CoolKid27

Lapis Lunaris
Jun 20, 2005
429
4
0
43
Kutztown, PA USA
#6
DIC's voice actors were very good, but the scripts they had to follow were inaccurate. All of the music and almost all of the sound effects were replaced. Luckily, they did a good job with the new music. Many scenes were cut/edited.

Cloverway's voice actors were terrible, and the scripts were all over the place. They did keep the original music, but it was at such a low volume that it was hard to hear anyway. All scenes were kept, which was nice.


Both had good points and bad points, but I'd rather listen to the DIC dub over the crap Cloverway one.
 

PteraRanger

Lapis Lunaris
Apr 25, 2016
400
2
0
#7
While as bad and inaccurate as the DiC scripts really were, they were at least somewhat consistent with attack names in the original set of dubbed episodes (before they took on the rest of the Black Moon arc). Like Mars Fire Ignite was pretty much always Mars Fire Ignite except for the rare occasion where it was called something like Mars Firestorm Flash. It wasn't until the "Lost Episodes" did they really stop following their own rules.

I just remembered them renaming the Hyper Tellun "Big Bertha" or something like that.
 
Aug 27, 2012
3,734
81
15
34
Cuddling With Ami-Chan!
#8
Neon Genesis said:
It also seemed like they let up on the censorship like actually allowing the characters to slap each other and they even kept blood in the Toonami version in the Uranus flashback episode.
actually in the DiC dub when Mamoru/Darien was stabbed in the shoulder by Zoisite they left the blood alone which was evident when Usagi/Serena slaps him on the shoulder and gets very visible blood on her hand
 

Neon Genesis

Luna Crescens
Oct 31, 2015
2,332
248
165
#10
I was also really glad Cloverway decided to ditch the Sailor Moon Says segment which added nothing of value to the show and it only seemed to be there to meet a certain edutainment quota for network TV but ended up taking away valuable screentime from the rest of the episode. As a big fan of Rei, I was glad Cloverway actually let Raye be nice to Serena during the times she was supposed to be as opposed to DiC where they really seemed to ramp up how nasty Raye was.
 

Maetch

Luna Nova
Mar 31, 2010
1,523
11
0
#11
Neon Genesis said:
Cloverway's inconsistency was annoying but DiC could also be just as inconsistent. I lost track of how many times DiC kept changing Serena's I will punish you speech. Some episodes they'd get it right but other episodes they would have her say "On behalf of the moon." DiC was also guilty of changing attack names like with Moon Specter Elimination versus Moon Scepter Activation.
I personally liked tweaks like "I will right wrongs and triumph over evil, and that means you!" since it offered some variety in the speech, and "Elimination" makes more sense for a word in a finishing move-attack than "Activation".
 

Neon Genesis

Luna Crescens
Oct 31, 2015
2,332
248
165
#12
I remember though how Sailor Moon Uncensored kept a record of how it always seemed like all the episodes where Serena said "on behalf of the moon" were the most heavily rewritten episodes but the episodes where her speech was actually kept accurate were usually the more accurate dubbed episodes.
 

PteraRanger

Lapis Lunaris
Apr 25, 2016
400
2
0
#13
SMU was oft inaccurate/misinformed and I would re-listen to the old dubs to confirm what was really said/changed. And even then, I still couldn't tell what was exactly being said because of quality issues. SMU had a habit of paraphrasing dialogue, too. If someone is going to examine a dub's censorship or changes, they should probably go by verbatim dialogues, not just the gist.
 
Jul 15, 2012
319
14
15
27
USA
#14
Neon Genesis said:
I remember though how Sailor Moon Uncensored kept a record of how it always seemed like all the episodes where Serena said "on behalf of the moon" were the most heavily rewritten episodes but the episodes where her speech was actually kept accurate were usually the more accurate dubbed episodes.
That's one of the only things they did right.

sailormoonpedia said:
SMU was oft inaccurate/misinformed and I would re-listen to the old dubs to confirm what was really said/changed. And even then, I still couldn't tell what was exactly being said because of quality issues. SMU had a habit of paraphrasing dialogue, too. If someone is going to examine a dub's censorship or changes, they should probably go by verbatim dialogues, not just the gist.
Exactly. Thank you.
 
#15
ShineAquaIllusion said:
sailormoonpedia said:
(Moon Super Moon Target one episode, Super Moon Target the next... Uranus World Shaking one episode, just World Shaking the next) or character names straight whatsoever.
I'm gonna get made fun of for this--not by you, sailormoonpedia, but probably by other people--but I have heard the first time that "attack name" was given with good headphones, and I can personally attest that there is no "ooh" noise in the middle. She goes "Mmh, Super Moon Target!" . It is not Moon Super Moon. (Gasp, you mean Sailor Moon Uncensored lied in the middle of their "lolfunnayyy" death threats to Cloverway?!?!?! OH MY GOD, WHO WOULD HAVE THOUGHT!!! The "funny symbols" line is often misquoted thanks to those so-and-sos as well. It's still completely stupid, but the actual line is Lita's: "How could you read it? It's nothing but symbols!" There is no mention of the kanji being called "funny" or anything like that.)

I would also like to say that the censorship of Haruka and Michiru's relationship was not the fault of the dubbing production. Read up on this article here to find more information about that.
Wait, are you sure? I thought for sure I heard "Moon Super Moon Target" (and thought it was the funniest thing ever)

But they sent death threats? I never heard about that. That isn't cool, regardless. :(

As for my own opinion, most of the acting in the clover way dub was awful, even if most of the voices had qualities that fit the characters, and that really hurt it. But a lot of that can be attributed to the rushing, and there were many things that were memorable, some of which I'll miss in the Viz dub.
 

Neon Genesis

Luna Crescens
Oct 31, 2015
2,332
248
165
#16
I'm pretty sure I also recall they did in fact say Super Moon Target in the dub and as someone who used to post frequently at the Sailor Moon Uncensored forums back in the day, I'm pretty sure I don't recall anyone ever sending any death threats to Cloverway. The closest you might get are the same type of "Lol 4Kids must die!" type of comments you see all over the Internet but that's not as dramatic as implying they sent serious death threats. Death threats on the Internet are serious issues so let's not be making false accusations of other Sailor Moon fan sites unless you actually back it up with citations.
 
Jul 15, 2012
319
14
15
27
USA
#17
They did not directly mail death threats, but for the sake of "humor" they said they wanted to cause physical harm to people who worked at Cwi on the comparisons. Let me get a couple before I go to bed.

Edit -

1. https://www.smuncensored.com/comparison ... sodeid=134
"After Lita says they can go see Tomoko, Serena and Rini exclaim,
'This is tight!'

Yeah....That's what the writer of this episode will be saying once I find them and wrap my belt around their neck......*SHUDDER*...Umm...*cough*...Not really.....It's a joke....*sees the FBI eyeballing him*...Umm....Nevermind...."

2. https://www.smuncensored.com/comparison ... sodeid=106

"I didn't have a chance to see this ep..and I thank the gods for it. I have a feeling that if I had seen this sickening 'related by destiny' crap, I would have gone on a killing spree. That's all I have to say about this."

3. https://www.smuncensored.com/comparison ... isodeid=29

"(1 sec) Snippets as Moon and Jupiter do their speeches. Dan is going to go on a killing spree soon. ^^;;"

4. https://www.smuncensored.com/comparison ... isodeid=25

"(3 sec) Snippets in the coffee house this time. *gets the knives and swords ready for the killing spree*"

5. https://www.smuncensored.com/comparison ... sodeid=164

"This isn't a line that was stupid, but more of a scene that was.
You know that scene where we see the Quartet running through the woods and then finding a mirror where they see Nehelenia? THAT WAS SUPPOSED TO BE A FLASHBACK! Baka Lumby. In the dub it was almost as if it was taking place in real time, which doesn't make sense at all since they Quartet were trapped in those mirrors. Even if it wasn't taking place in real time, the Quartet still acted as if they knew Nehelenia before hand when they didn't in the flashback. *SMACK SMACK* Stupid Cloverway, and it only gets worse from here."

(This fifth one is reaching, but the *smack smack* is obviously directed toward Lisa Lumby-Richards, as if they wanted to slap her.)

And there's probably more, but I'd actually have to read this bullcrap to find it.

Salem Saberhagen said:
Wait, are you sure? I thought for sure I heard "Moon Super Moon Target" (and thought it was the funniest thing ever).
I am absolutely sure. There is no "mmm" noise at the start of Linda's snippet, nor is there an "nn" noise. She goes "Oooh, Super Moon Target!" upon a rehearing.
 
Mar 8, 2012
4,505
2,860
1,665
#19
While I don't think the CWi dub is as good/interesting/entertaining as the DiC dub, I still think it gets a bad rap, and a lot of that probably stems from SMU's over-the-top hate boner for it. A lot of their dub vs. original comparisons are incredibly biased and feature lots of inaccuracies/misrepresentations.

Originally I wasn't going to do CWi/Viz dub comparisons for S because I was so worn out by my DiC/Viz comparisons, but now that it's been such a long wait for the S redub to come out (and we still! have no release date), I'm feeling all rested up and may just do a few episode comparisons out of curiosity.
 
Jul 15, 2012
319
14
15
27
USA
#20
Speaking of making comparisons, I'm going to beeline for episode 125 as soon as it's available. There will be tears. I'm more confident now that Stephanie Sheh will be able to kill it there, but Linda was just perfect there.