Is SMC really that similar to the manga?

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Mitsukara

Luna Crescens
Apr 1, 2017
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#41
Don't forget that the character development of brutally melting the Shitennou's faces upon first meeting/use of Rei and Makoto's powers was eliminated, making Sailor Mars and Sailor Jupiter less accidentally(?) murderous.

And reducing grotesque corpse-melting by 100%. :dead:

Or that part where Usagi has the nightmare about Mamoru's face melting off, but still having the eyeballs inside the skull.

Or Mamoru still having the Shitennou stones after they help in the fight with Metallia.
 
Mar 8, 2012
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#42
Not to mention removing Rei's iconic hair flip in Act 4, eliminating her grandfather, eliminating Unazuki, removing Usagi transforming into a groom in Act 5, removing Eudial's monster form, removing Ms. Haruna's appearance from Act 2 (I forget if she appears in any other chapter of the manga after that) despite introducing her like a main character in the first episode, etc. Crystal really is not that faithful to the manga.
 

John

Luna Crescens
Dec 20, 2011
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#43
I mean...despite those alterations, Memento, it's still quite faithful to the manga. Being faithful or similar doesn't mean it's an exact copy. Compared to the 90s anime, the story of Crystal is MUCH closer to that of the manga. Eliminating extremely minor characters and quick scenes makes it distinct from the manga, but not necessarily dissimilar. Even the 90s anime, as different as it was from the manga, is still similar to the manga in the grand scheme of anime and stories in general.

I'm not good at quantifying things, but it seems like 90% of the manga is replicated in Crystal -- even to a fault. 10% doesn't mean it's "not that similar" or suddenly different from the manga. It's just not identical.
 
Sep 14, 2017
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#44
I'd say it's the closest manga-to-screen adaptation of them all with the story, but several things make it lose the feel of the manga, if you get what I mean? And I'm not just talking about all of the storyline changes, though I think they detracted from it too.

Personally I don't think 1 & 2's art style is very faithful to the manga. I know a lot of people will disagree and I can see why- the shapes of the bodies, the lipstick and the 'ethereal' appearance of everyone is certainly taken from the manga (or, in the least, the more 'romantic' colored artwork) but something about the way it comes together in Crystal...it just doesn't translate in a way that captures the manga imo. Especially the eyes and how stiff they all are in a lot of scenes.

However (and I know people will disagree with me), I think the season 3 artwork captures the manga in a much more effective way while adding something new. The senshi look a lot younger, yes, and they don't have the exact same faces but they really captured it well imo. I think after S1&2 failed, they decided to focus less on making exact replicas of the manga designs and moreso an infusion of the manga and something new, which imo was a complete success and the flow of the arc was very well done and faithful to the manga.

Originally I didn't feel this way (though I still loved S3's designs), until I looked at my SMC Figuarts next to a manga print, and the resemblance is uncanny. Then I looked at season 3 promos and screenshots and now I'm of the opinion that while some things are different, season three captured the feel and aesthetic in a more effective way than prior seasons- especially if you look at actual panels of the manga instead of the artwork.


Personally, and it pains me to say this because I don't enjoy PGSM, but even though it's not faithful to the manga it perfectly captures the same sort of feeling, probably because of Naoko's involvement in it.

I'm so bad at articulating my thoughts lol :lol: :lol:
 
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Pikari-gaoka
sparklyheartsdiana.tumblr.com
#45
Mitsukara said:
Don't forget that the character development of brutally melting the Shitennou's faces upon first meeting/use of Rei and Makoto's powers was eliminated, making Sailor Mars and Sailor Jupiter less accidentally(?) murderous.

And reducing grotesque corpse-melting by 100%. :dead:

Or that part where Usagi has the nightmare about Mamoru's face melting off, but still having the eyeballs inside the skull.

Or Mamoru still having the Shitennou stones after they help in the fight with Metallia.
MementoNepenthe said:
Not to mention removing Rei's iconic hair flip in Act 4, eliminating her grandfather, eliminating Unazuki, removing Usagi transforming into a groom in Act 5, removing Eudial's monster form, removing Ms. Haruna's appearance from Act 2 (I forget if she appears in any other chapter of the manga after that) despite introducing her like a main character in the first episode, etc. Crystal really is not that faithful to the manga.
Thank you both for the help, I appreciate it.
 

John

Luna Crescens
Dec 20, 2011
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#46
Serena-Hime said:
I'd say it's the closest manga-to-screen adaptation of them all with the story, but several things make it lose the feel of the manga, if you get what I mean? And I'm not just talking about all of the storyline changes, though I think they detracted from it too.

Personally I don't think 1 & 2's art style is very faithful to the manga. I know a lot of people will disagree and I can see why- the shapes of the bodies, the lipstick and the 'ethereal' appearance of everyone is certainly taken from the manga (or, in the least, the more 'romantic' colored artwork) but something about the way it comes together in Crystal...it just doesn't translate in a way that captures the manga imo. Especially the eyes and how stiff they all are in a lot of scenes.

However (and I know people will disagree with me), I think the season 3 artwork captures the manga in a much more effective way while adding something new. The senshi look a lot younger, yes, and they don't have the exact same faces but they really captured it well imo. I think after S1&2 failed, they decided to focus less on making exact replicas of the manga designs and moreso an infusion of the manga and something new, which imo was a complete success and the flow of the arc was very well done and faithful to the manga.

Originally I didn't feel this way (though I still loved S3's designs), until I looked at my SMC Figuarts next to a manga print, and the resemblance is uncanny. Then I looked at season 3 promos and screenshots and now I'm of the opinion that while some things are different, season three captured the feel and aesthetic in a more effective way than prior seasons- especially if you look at actual panels of the manga instead of the artwork.


Personally, and it pains me to say this because I don't enjoy PGSM, but even though it's not faithful to the manga it perfectly captures the same sort of feeling, probably because of Naoko's involvement in it.

I'm so bad at articulating my thoughts lol :lol: :lol:
On the contrary, I'd say you articulated your thoughts very well.

To be honest, I don't think anything will be able to truly capture the manga 100%. Takeuchi's wispy transitions and sometimes-detailed/sometimes-vague backgrounds don't really translate well to the screen. The character designs of the first two Crystal arcs reminded me of the manga, but the stiffness of the animation and the constant mistakes really divorced it from feeling like the manga. Then we have the third arc of Crystal, which I really loved -- like you said, it captured the manga but in a different way. I think it was just how it was accurate to the story without looking derpy like the first two arcs.
 
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#47
John said:
On the contrary, I'd say you articulated your thoughts very well.

To be honest, I don't think anything will be able to truly capture the manga 100%. Takeuchi's wispy transitions and sometimes-detailed/sometimes-vague backgrounds don't really translate well to the screen. The character designs of the first two Crystal arcs reminded me of the manga, but the stiffness of the animation and the constant mistakes really divorced it from feeling like the manga. Then we have the third arc of Crystal, which I really loved -- like you said, it captured the manga but in a different way. I think it was just how it was accurate to the story without looking derpy like the first two arcs.
Thank you! I think while I type and my thoughts are usually jumbled, which is why I catch myself editing my comments to articulate my points more concisely :lol:

I agree. I think a lot of what fans wanted from the manga just isn't possible, not without a (probably) record-breaking budget because it would take significantly more frames to animate even the smallest details, such as the (incredible) way Naoko illustrates hair movement, and the simplistic backgrounds wouldn't make for a very interesting animated scene.

The S1/2 designs were reminiscent of the manga for me, but like you said, the stiffness and errors in the animation ruined it. Personally the eyes ruined it for me as well, and the constant attempts to keep the characters in pretty, elegant poses rather than show actual emotion. I mean, even the manga lacks the lipstick and 'romantic' poses for a lot of the frames.

Season 3 isn't a dead-on match to the manga but I feel like they chose the things that would translate well into animation, then added their own twist on it. Even right now I'm looking at my SMC Figuarts, which is right next to this clearfile from the exhibition and the resemblance is spot-on for Usagi, right down to the minute details of her hair and eyes. It makes me desperately hopeful that Bandai will make Crystal Figuarts of the other senshi!

To me, 1/2 attempted to (poorly) replicate the artwork style in every frame, while S3 gave similar visuals to the artwork but also provided the same variation featured in the manga while providing an excellent translation of the manga into animation.
 

John

Luna Crescens
Dec 20, 2011
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#48
I think you're really hitting the nail on the head. In order to capture the still-beauty of Takeuchi's manga, an anime adaptation would need to have an insanely high budget. I just don't think it's realistic. I liked season three a lot, and it was a huge improvement over the first two arcs, but it could also have been done a lot better.

I also feel that what constitutes a Sailor Moon anime needs to be re-evaluated. The manga doesn't really have transformation scenes -- it has brief frames that don't take up much time at all. Perhaps it would be interesting to see a Sailor Moon anime that has quicker, less elaborate transformation sequences.
 

Mitsukara

Luna Crescens
Apr 1, 2017
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D-Point
#49
I am 100% onboard with the reduction of transformation sequences. Seeing them once (per upgrade) is neat, but seeing them over and over is the real filler (not cute little one-off plots or gradual character development), whether or not the animation is nice.

If they had done like Gundam and made a series of movies from editing-together important portions of the 90s anime, I can only hope they would cut out most of the transformation sequences after the first time (beyond acknowledging that they transform, like shouting the phrase.)

I also agree about the manga's art style being hard to capture in the anime. Naoko Takeushi put TON of work into little details of the hair, clothes, accessories, and faces, and that kind of detail just doesn't translate easily.

I think the floaty, dreamlike quality (the very detailed backgrounds versus the vague backgrounds) could've been captured more clearly though- that's what fog, color splashes, lighting tricks, weird indistinct geometric shapes, and so on are for.

Going back to consider all the little things that are being dropped... yeah, Crystal definitely lacks a lot! It follows the structure, and it even tried to add one or two things, but mostly it feels like they cut a bunch of corners and tries to meet generic expectations (full transformation sequences, Usagi's lack of a mask, and the elimination of the gruesome violence). That's a shame. I'll still give the rest a watch when I'm all done with the manga, though, and I'd still love to see them do Codename Sailor V.
 
Mar 8, 2012
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#50
As other people have said, when I talk about Crystal not really being like the manga, I'm not only taking about plot omissions and alterations, but also differences in character design/art style and feel. As I've said before, Crystal may ostensibly be closer to the manga (in terms of plot) than the 90s anime (or any other adaptation), but it also lacks the spirit of the manga; it lacks charm.

Certainly it would take a lot of time and money to truly create an animated version of the manga, but they still could have captured its feel. The 90s anime was hand drawn and I don't think had an enormous budget, yet it looked beautiful and captured the manga's charm perfectly. Crystal could have easily had the same effect if it wasn't mostly outsourced to novice studios and if the people in charge had simply cared.

Furthermore, Crystal doesn't do itself any favors by lazily using the manga as a storyboard. Every time they attempt a carbon copy of a particular panel from the manga, it just highlights how cheap and kind of ugly Crystal is in comparison to Naoko's artwork and the 90s anime. If they would just put in a tiny bit of effort and come up with O R I G I N A L shots, they wouldn't be begging unflattering comparisons so much.
 
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#51
MementoNepenthe said:
Crystal may ostensibly be closer to the manga (in terms of plot) than the 90s anime (or any other adaptation), but it also lacks the spirit of the manga; it lacks charm.

Crystal doesn't do itself any favors by lazily using the manga as a storyboard. Every time they attempt a carbon copy of a particular panel from the manga, it just highlights how cheap and kind of ugly Crystal is in comparison to Naoko's artwork and the 90s anime. If they would just put in a tiny bit of effort and come up with O R I G I N A L shots, they wouldn't be begging unflattering comparisons so much.
This, so much! Thank you for expressing how I feel so eloquently.
 
Mar 8, 2012
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#52
And, of course, it goes without saying that the lazy copy & pasting of transformation and attack stock footage from the 90s anime also highlights how bad Crystal's animation is compared to the original anime. They need to stop being lazy, start being original/creative, and stop inviting these unflattering comparisons.
 
Sep 14, 2017
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#53
MementoNepenthe said:
And, of course, it goes without saying that the lazy copy & pasting of transformation and attack stock footage from the 90s anime also highlights how bad Crystal's animation is compared to the original anime.
This. It's one of the things I hated the most about seasons 1 and 2, the repeated transformation sequences- except they didn't even look pretty, so it was ruined twice over. I actually love the changes that S3 made with the transformations, they're obviously supposed to be updated 90's versions but they (especially the inners) added a lot of really cool visuals, especially Mars!

I second the comment about simplified transformations, or completely new versions in the least. I love the Iconic manga pose where they cross their hands in front of their chests- I would love a more elaborate version of that.
 

Mitsukara

Luna Crescens
Apr 1, 2017
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D-Point
#54
Another thing I neglected to mention, regarding transformation scenes (and attacks)- if they're rendered in 3D Cel shading the way it looks like, couldn't they easily (A) put in different backgrounds, and (B) switch the camera angles around by rotating the model/3D POV? That would reduce the stock footage syndrome quite a bit.

I've completed the Black Moon arc of the manga now. If that was the entirety of Sailor Pluto's unrequited feelings for King Endymion, then that was so subtle I could've missed it, but I guess I could see it. I have to say, I still like Codename Sailor V a lot more than the primary manga so far, but it's still interesting. I liked the bit where Diana guards the space-time door for Pluto.

Saphir as a character didn't wind up as different in the manga as I expected from what everyone was saying- it was more like he and the '90s anime version were the same character up to a point, then got a choice between, "Do you want to understand what's going on, or be able to fight against it?"- the manga version took the former, and the anime version took the latter, but aside from that he seemed like the same guy to me. I'll have to see how Crystal's version of all this played out... but first, the Infinity / Dream / Stars arcs of the manga.
 
Aug 16, 2014
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#55
John said:
I mean...despite those alterations, Memento, it's still quite faithful to the manga. Being faithful or similar doesn't mean it's an exact copy. Compared to the 90s anime, the story of Crystal is MUCH closer to that of the manga. Eliminating extremely minor characters and quick scenes makes it distinct from the manga, but not necessarily dissimilar. Even the 90s anime, as different as it was from the manga, is still similar to the manga in the grand scheme of anime and stories in general.

I'm not good at quantifying things, but it seems like 90% of the manga is replicated in Crystal -- even to a fault. 10% doesn't mean it's "not that similar" or suddenly different from the manga. It's just not identical.
Yah its like Charlie chocolate factory . The 2005 version why having diffeences(Willy wonkas pass.) Was way more faithful than the 70 s version. Close does not mean 100'5 percent identicle i just means its close . Crystal was way more faithful
 
Mar 8, 2012
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#56
This thread isn't really asking whether or not Crystal is a closer adaptation of the manga than the 90s anime is, though; it's asking if Crystal is as faithful an adaptation as its most ardent supporters claim it is, and my answer to that is no.
 

BlueMoon

Lumen Cinereum
Sep 6, 2014
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#57
^Which makes the charlie and the chocolate factory comparison apt because while it may technically be closer to the book (which isn’t a plus in my book) it royally screws up the ending not to mention some of its changes make no sense. Reimagining Mike as a video game addicted genius who is an a a- hole but still giving him a song about tv making you dumb


Crystal can be closer to the manga and make changes that are far more offensive.

The useless senshi
 
Aug 16, 2014
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#58
MementoNepenthe said:
This thread isn't really asking whether or not Crystal is a closer adaptation of the manga than the 90s anime is, though; it's asking if Crystal is as faithful an adaptation as its most ardent supporters claim it is, and my answer to that is no.
I'm going disagree with you there . Crystal is still a faithful adaption despites its changes . A faithful adaption is not an adaption that is 100 % percent like it source material.There were some changes but it wasnt like they made there own story like PGSM
 
May 1, 2015
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#59
MementoNepenthe said:
Tracey Moore is a fan of the manga and evidently does not think Crystal is all that faithful to it, so Sailor Moon has spoken! (Her comments start at around 6:20)

For those of you who can't watch/don't feel like watching the video, this is what she says:

I like the manga. I think the manga is brilliant. I would love to see something really true to the manga. Like, and I think you're going to see it. I think that the next time they hit "Sailor Moon," they're going to put more of that trueness in it. I really think so.
Earlier in the video, she also comments that she feels the characters in Crystal are a bit flatter/more static compared to the 90s anime.
Don't forget about PGSM, Memento! Everyone in Crystal is flat/static compared to their live action selves.
 
#60
For transformations, we should be getting something similar to Madoka and not Pretty Cure fluff. Instant transformations are nice. Sailor Moon Crystal is cool but sometimes you see that Pretty Cure syndrome slipping in. I know it's for the same company but Pretty Guardians and Pretty Cure are two different beasts. Like Chibi Moons ending poses with all the face rubs and what not. One thing that didn't transfer was the smoothness and elegance in the transformations. S1/S2 nailed this but failed with the animation style choice. Side by side, S3 fails but then is a much better looking choice because of the 2D but I guess that's really up to the viewer. However, you can see in some frames, this look choppy. Jupiter henshins is bad and Venus' is boring.


I was a little disappointed they cut down on the real time attacks...made the action much more better and pulled you into it.

Hopefully, Dream delivers and if they take anything from the season...be creative with thins like the SuperS movie was.