Is Toei regretting Crystal's initial concept?

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Ive always been a fan of the real time attacks. It really puts the viewer in the action. The R movie had a few real time attack sequences but the SuperS movie really went off with it to a great degree. I think the only stock footage we got were their Super attacks from the series but their past attacks were done in real time.

Fire Soul, Supreme Thunder, and Love-Me (though I prefer Love-link) Chain were redone with real time and super effect, we got a nice real time Shine Aqua Illusion attack against a powerful cannon.

I also like how the movie showed they didn't have shout Everytime to attack. They could release their powers at will.

But what I'm really curious about are the transformations and most of all the Super attacks because I seriously do not want to see the same looking attacks from the 90s anime plastered onto this movie.

I wonder how innovative they will be with this?

I'd like Venus Love and Beauty Shock to be different because the 90s version kinda looks like a downgraded Moon Spiral Heart attack. I don't want any villians side stepping it...

Boy I would have loved for this to be series just to see things like Phobos and Desmos turning human and Mars Flame Arrow communicating with her and the same with the other Senshi.

I wonder how they are going to slide in the part about Minako not being able to do her stuff yet like the others. I wonder if it will seemed rushed possibly?

I'm wondering if the first movie will focus on the Inners? Mamoru's sickness and Usagi and Chibi-Usa age switch, and the appearance of the Quartet all happen relatively early. This leads into Mercury's little side story and we also get to see her mom and find out about Dad and all that and she has to be attacked by fisheye and speak to her Sailor Guardian and get her new transformation and weapon...etc Same for Rei (at the amusment park) and Mako in their dreams.

It seems like some things are going to get axed for sure but whoever the writer is, they will have to be top notch imo to keep everything neat without it feeling like it was thrown together. I can kinda see why this would be a challenging movie to write, so kudos to whomever has the task. They gotta be good.

Knowing the possible runtime of Toei movies will be somewhat of a help too. 120 might be a good runtime

The first 45 minutes should include everything up to Super Sailor Moon, Chibi Moon and Super Sailor Mercury, while also sliding in Usagi and Chibi-Usa ages being returned to normal when they transform of course and Fish-Eyes death... :-(

The next 45 can lead to the investigation of the Dead Moon Circus by the Senshi and them having to be rescued by Mars' who separates herself and kills Tiger's Eye with her new transformation and attack, Phobos and Deimos human forms, Helios human form, Makoto power up and the death of Hawk's Eye, while allowing Moon and Chibi to save Mamoru and discover the extent of the curse...

Ah heck nevermind. They still have to go into Minako's part where she can't transform and she has to prove herself as leader of the Inners and the Outers make an appearance too..and that terrible thing that happens to Artemis...

Okay, I'm praying the writer can get something cracking...looks like scene cuts or rewritten parts that Naoko will have to agree with.
 

sapphire91

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I believe they can change stuff a bit. Making the whole inner part happen concurrently at the end of the movie, while all of them are at a different parts of the park - Minako decides to participe in a contest, Mako goes to a food stand, Ami looking at these fish cstching stuff they do on festuvals, while Rei is in the mirror room lured by a premotion. They can include them early on during the fight with the tiger, showing the rest of the inners use their old attacks, while Minako somehow cannot anymore, to establish her mini arc of feeling useless.
 
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I've said it before but i do hope they'll re-arrange the Minako and Outers parts from the manga. The first movie would cover the whole Minako storyline including her transforming and getting new attack. Then the movie ends with the quartet capturing inners and them being helpless.

The second movie would start with the Outers family live prolouge and then them appearing to save Inners
 

Seira Hazuki

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Jan 17, 2007
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Yeah I think Ami, Rei and Mako will have their power up scenes happen at the same time and engage the Amazon Trio in a 3 vs. 3 battle.

I wouldn’t be surprised if things like the appearance of Ami’s mother will be cut considering they’ve cut civilian characters from the manga before, including Rei’s grandpa who has a vital scene in the Dream arc.
 

sapphire91

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Yeah I think Ami, Rei and Mako will have their power up scenes happen at the same time and engage the Amazon Trio in a 3 vs. 3 battle.

I wouldn’t be surprised if things like the appearance of Ami’s mother will be cut considering they’ve cut civilian characters from the manga before, including Rei’s grandpa who has a vital scene in the Dream arc.
I doubt they do that, considering she examines Mamoru. They can simply change Ami meeting Fish Eye, disguised as her mom with a lover on spot later on I don't remember what was the im
 
I can deal with a good three on three battle and I hope that each Senshi gets to kill their attackers. Might as well elt Mercury get to take out Fisheye instead of Sailor Moon. I went to see how long some of Toeis movies have been from different series. One Piece seemed to have some of the longest. One of the movies was 120 minutes in runtime.

And their the majority of their films seemed to have pretty nice animation from the YouTube clips I saw. I liked that Digimon one..well I liked the poster for it. It looked nice.

I guess I was so focused on each Senshi getting a fair amount of screen time to shine and to see some things we've ye to see about them outside of PGSM. I'm still in individual episode mode. I was really looking forward to focusing on each of their dreams in a little bit more detail but I know this isn't possible.

Even though I know Artemis is going to get it...I wonder how far this movie will go with it's content? I read the director has done a lot worse in terms of mature anime.
 

sapphire91

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Kon has work on dark stuff, both gory and psychological horror. The only show she is widely critize for is Umineko no Naku Koro Ni. I agree sge didnt do the best direction, but it was waay back in the past. Considering the fact she adaptd Infinity even more closely than the first two story arcs, I believe thr movies will be on the longer side with minimum cuts.
Anyway, isn't it funny how everytime u are pretty sure what to expect from Crystal, they turn the tables, making fans scratching their heads in anticipation, while toei just like a troll author of suspense soap opera keeps on making them wait longer and longer.
 
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Neon Genesis

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I disagree. The complaining fanbase isnt something exclusive to Sailor Moon. In fact i would say SM still has one of the tamest fanbases i've been part of. Have you ever been a part of Pokemon fanbase? Oh dead lord, THATS a toxic fanbase if i ever seen one. But there are more and more others aswell.

Also i think its more of a internet issue in general, people complain and whine about everything.

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Sailor Moon is about the only franchise focused fandom I participate heavily in because most other fandoms are a lot worse but I feel like that's setting a low bar for the fandom. I don't have problems just with the cynicism but with the lack of respect when there's any disagreements in the fanbase and the personal attacks against the creators that fans seem obsessed in engaging in. I often feel like the only reason Sailor Moon fandom isn't as bad as other fandoms is because Naoko doesn't have a Twitter account and she's a very private individual and doesn't interact with the fans much which I'm always eternally grateful for that she doesn't. The only other fandom I interact heavily in is the broader anime fandom where I do post in anime forums and in Facebook groups but I don't really interact much with fandoms that are focused on a single franchise and I typically prefer to just talk about my favorite shows and video games with my circle of friends over large fandom groups.

Clear Card had good animation, but it was too... sweet. Cardcaptor Sakura has always been sweet but every Clear Card episode had the characters getting extra happy over how delicious their food was and other silly things. I had to drop it because I was "getting cavities" just like Dic Queen Beryl would say.
But that's the thing that I'm not sure why Sailor Moon fans think an original sequel to Sailor Moon would be any different. The Sailor Moon story is pretty much complete. All the storylines have been fully wrapped up, the characters all have complete story arcs, and besides maybe expanding on the Outers' pasts, I'm not sure what else there is to explore with the characters. A Sailor Moon sequel would still likely focus heavily on 90s nostalgia fanservice like Dragon Ball Super has done and it would still likely have all the same animation quality control issues.

Production value is not the only thing fan wants, Production values of the season 3 of Crystal was excellent. the problem came from the story, it's just the manga and the story of the manga is average at best.
And it's the same problem with Clear card, the sequel was just unecessary, Sakura ending was excellent and the story of Clear card is unecessary but also uninspired, it add nearly nothing to Sakura.
It's the problem of making a sequel, a Good sequel need to be need or if it's not it need to be inspired, retelling nearly the same thing that the old serie but not as good is a problem.
Actually it's why changing the cast, where happen the sequel or setting the sequel many years after the original allow to make better sequel (when the staff don't make fanservice like in Starwars 7 and just retell the same story than before but with new character)
Toei has always been clear that Crystal was going to be a 1:1 adaptation of the manga and the few times they strayed from the source material (the Four Kings' romance; Sailor Moon killing Beryl instead of Venus) were the issues fans complained about the most besides the animation quality issues. We can complain about how it was executed but I don't get why fans are disappointed that Crystal turned out to be exactly what Toei always said it was going to be just because they didn't get PGSM 2.0 when fans were never promised that Crystal was going to be PGSM 2.0 And as much as I love the 90s anime, let's be honest the 90s anime has a lot of writing quality and animation issues too and suffers from a lot of the same problems the manga does. Toei is never going to change the Sailor Moon cast because they tried that already with Sailor Stars where they got rid of the majority of the classic characters like Naru and Umino and all the character focus was shifted onto the Sailor Starlights and the Sailor Animates. Sailor Stars is frequently bashed by fans as one of the worst seasons of the 90s anime, and even in Japan, Sailor Stars had the lowest TV ratings of all five seasons. The only way I could possibly see them shifting to new characters is if Toei made a Sailor Chibi Moon spin off but I doubt they would ever make a radical shift to entirely new characters with none of the original cast being involved at all.

On the financial report it's shown Glitter force earn as much in west each year than Saint seiya in the whole world each year between 2007 and 2015 (and saint seiya was the 4th biggest licence of Toei animation), Glitter force earn 2 time more what a good season of Digimon earn.

Actually Glitter force earn to Toei more than sailormoon was earning each years to the studio during 90's

So Glitter force seem not to be a success and it's maybe not for Saban (if it was really not Hasbro would have not by the rights of the serie) but it a big success for Toei animation as Toei is paid even if the serie is a failure
Can you provide a citation for this data about Glitter Force being a financial success for Toei? As far as I'm aware, Netflix has not released any streaming ratings data for Glitter Force or any of their anime shows. If you're claiming the English dub somehow improved the financial domestic success of the Japanese version, that seems like a major stretch to make.
 
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Sailor Moon is about the only franchise focused fandom I participate heavily in because most other fandoms are a lot worse but I feel like that's setting a low bar for the fandom. I don't have problems just with the cynicism but with the lack of respect when there's any disagreements in the fanbase and the personal attacks against the creators that fans seem obsessed in engaging in. I often feel like the only reason Sailor Moon fandom isn't as bad as other fandoms is because Naoko doesn't have a Twitter account and she's a very private individual and doesn't interact with the fans much which I'm always eternally grateful for that she doesn't. The only other fandom I interact heavily in is the broader anime fandom where I do post in anime forums and in Facebook groups but I don't really interact much with fandoms that are focused on a single franchise and I typically prefer to just talk about my favorite shows and video games with my circle of friends over large fandom groups.

But that's the thing that I'm not sure why Sailor Moon fans think an original sequel to Sailor Moon would be any different. The Sailor Moon story is pretty much complete. All the storylines have been fully wrapped up, the characters all have complete story arcs, and besides maybe expanding on the Outers' pasts, I'm not sure what else there is to explore with the characters. A Sailor Moon sequel would still likely focus heavily on 90s nostalgia fanservice like Dragon Ball Super has done and it would still likely have all the same animation quality control issues.
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I understand your concern with the fanbase but i really wouldnt worry about some aggresive fans that happen in each fanbase and in every corner of the internet anyway. I usually ignore people/places that cant really provide any normal discussion. I think real fans are better than that and some angry group doesnt equal fanbase.

As for the sequel i still think there's plenty of loose ends/possibilites for a good continuation (Manga merely teases Sailor Cosmos, Sailor Quartet or even Kakyu and Starlights, 90s anime still has enough manga material to cover, there are musicals, Another story etc)

I feel like Sakura never got enough of a cast and lore to provide a long story or a strong sequel and some of its charm was already borrowed for (imo) much better and more interesting Tsubasa Reservoir Chronicle but thats just my opinion
 
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sapphire91

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If I have to be honest as much as I don't like Toei animation for many older stuff they butchered, not Sailor Moon related (Aishite Knight for example), people blame them unnecessary. Even more unjust it is to blame Naoko, as there is no official source saying she is involved at all in Crystal. Kodansha are to blame - they made most money out of it, they are mainly finance Crystal, they are calling the shots, and it is evident by the fact the Kanzenban endition has no better treatment than Crystal in form of delays. Fans should research a bit how the industry works. I am also inclined to blame Toei as they have their track record with bad adaptations, remasters, reboots etc, but Kodansha are the pupeteer behind it all. I'm sure Naoko would like the best for her franchise. Toei worked on limitation, forced upon them by production cometee, presented manly on Kodansha representatives.Kodansha didn't let Naoko do her thing in the past, they are doing the same now.
 

MariaTenebre

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I disagree with Neon Genesis the story is not complete there are tons of stuff they could explore. Like for one do a season showing how Crystal Tokyo came to be and how the Earth froze, they could do a story with reference to the Galaxy Cauldron, Sailor Cosmos and Chaos. They could adapt some of the original Sera Myu stories, Another Story, the PC Engine game or even Codename Sailor V just 90s styled and add in the London arc along with the manga's stories. Also to Star Angel Haruki I never liked the real time attacks I always preferred the fancy attack animations and in fact that was one of the reasons I fell in love with the series as it was so flashy and beautiful and I liked how they brought back the fancy attack animations in season 3.
 

sapphire91

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I don't think it is a good idea to explore exactly Crystal Tokyo and the Sailor Wars. Every fan wanna know about these two things, but the way they are vaguely mentioned and kept mystery make the rest of the story revolving around them more interesting and mysterious. There are ton other things they can make sequels around, mainly Chibi-Usa. She is way more loved in her manga/ Crystal depiction, plus who wouldn't like to see even a short story arc with Sailor Black Lady and the asteroid senshi. But I doubt Naoko would either write something new or let them do it themselves and maybe it is for the better as sequels written many years after the story had finished are rarely good.
 

MariaTenebre

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Jul 22, 2009
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I disagree sapphire91 if done well then the story of Crystal Tokyo's founding and the future stuff with Sailor Cosmos could be really awesome and even exceed our expectations really because these things have the most fan interest I think that these are the things that should be explored the most not less.
 

chevkraken

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Sailor Moon is about the only franchise focused fandom I participate heavily in because most other fandoms are a lot worse but I feel like that's setting a low bar for the fandom. I don't have problems just with the cynicism but with the lack of respect when there's any disagreements in the fanbase and the personal attacks against the creators that fans seem obsessed in engaging in. I often feel like the only reason Sailor Moon fandom isn't as bad as other fandoms is because Naoko doesn't have a Twitter account and she's a very private individual and doesn't interact with the fans much which I'm always eternally grateful for that she doesn't.
Actually, even if the series are heavily critisized, Saint seiya fandom really love the authors of the serie.
It's because Kurumada is an author who love his fans and make many thing for them. Kurumada let Toei animation the Freedom to do what they want for every project they launch about the Franchise, so Saint seiya have many project lauch for every type of Public. Saint seiya Omega was launch for kids and fan who love saint seiya for Shigeyasu Yamauchi style, Soul of Gold was made for hardcore fan of Gold saint who buy Myth cloth, A 3D CG movie to promote the serie in US and there is also 4 other project in production:

-An adaptation of the MMORPG saint seiya Online as a Chinese drama series
-An coproduction between Toei animation, a Chinese TV channel and Hollywood for a Live action movie directed by stff from Polish branch of HBO who are currently supervising The WITCHER TV serie(and made the game cinematics)
-An anime adaptation a a Spinoff manga by sucessor of the original anime
-A 3DCG serie coproduced by Toei and Netflix wrote by american writing staff and animated by Toei animation 3D animation department.

Thanks to Kurumada being open to many project, Saint seiya have also a sequel he actually make even if his hand are half paralyzed dues to Osteoarthritis and many spin off manga(2 finished and 3 ongoing).
they are:
-A fanfiction like title full of Gold saint and trope of fanfics about what happened 200 years prior the serie but by a very skilled mangaka artist (who was choose to make a Justice League manga after Saint seiya)
-a spin off with a full female cast and shojo manga graphic style
-2 hardboiled badass about gold saint action title by an cult mangaka from 90's
-Across over between every Kurumada manga drawn by a ffan favorite doujinshi artist

Kurumada even blackmailed his editor when the editor cancelled one of the spin off manga to make the spin off continue(Kurumada have bought the right of his manga so he can leave his editor with his serie for another editor)

And most of the charadesigner of each show and spin off author are heavily on twitter and are loved by the fans

And it's when I see the difference between what Toei make of Sailormoon and what they make about saint seiya that I understand that the big difference is how Naoko Takeuchi and Kurumada make use of their series.
Kurumada work hard to expend saint seiya and show he trust people to make new thing,

Naoko is not motivated to do this, nothing come from her. If she was dissapointed about Toei doing an 1/1 serie or a Precured sequel, why did she not make a sequel herself or asked to Toei animation to wrote the story of a sequel or reboot. Why did she not askto another mangaka to make a sailormoon spin off if the don't want to make manga anymore?


But that's the thing that I'm not sure why Sailor Moon fans think an original sequel to Sailor Moon would be any different. The Sailor Moon story is pretty much complete. All the storylines have been fully wrapped up, the characters all have complete story arcs, and besides maybe expanding on the Outers' pasts, I'm not sure what else there is to explore with the characters. A Sailor Moon sequel would still likely focus heavily on 90s nostalgia fanservice like Dragon Ball Super has done and it would still likely have all the same animation quality control issues.
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The only way I could possibly see them shifting to new characters is if Toei made a Sailor Chibi Moon spin off but I doubt they would ever make a radical shift to entirely new characters with none of the original cast being involved at all.
Actually Dragonball Super animation quality was pretty good for an long runner show in it's second half. And for the content of the Sequel a serie with a full new cast with old character being only here some time as support would have been possible, they made it with Saint seiya Omega in 2013.

they put saint seiya on the hand of their best director and animator, the staff behind Heartcatch Precure and tons of good animator, the serie was not well receided by most of the fans(actually I loved it) and was a commercial semi failure(Toei gain money but Bandai loose money and ordered a low budget Sequel focused on old character) but it's create a revival of saint seiya in japan because kids who didn't know the serie discovered saint seiya with it(the original serie never been shown again at TV in japan as it's too violent for the new censor law) .
Saint seiya Omega is the serie who made saint seiya so active since 2013, it's sad Naoko Takeuchi refused the Toei animation project for making a new sailormoon for Kids, it would have been similar.
A true revival is more important than making a serie for fans

Toei has always been clear that Crystal was going to be a 1:1 adaptation of the manga and the few times they strayed from the source material (the Four Kings' romance; Sailor Moon killing Beryl instead of Venus) were the issues fans complained about the most besides the animation quality issues.
I am on 3 anime community in France (I am French), and the 3 anime community main positive thing about Crystal season one was the change on the storyline.
In France, most of the fan are fan of the 90's anime, not the manga (and actually Sailormoon was just a moderate success in france where title popular amoung the girls in 80/90 was Versaille no Bara and Saint seiya, the most Successful magical girl in France don't come from Japan, it's the italian comics WITCH )
Most of french fan of sailormoon think the manga storyline is very low and the change were well receveid as they expanded poor character.
PS:It's have been confimed by staff that the Four King romance idea came from Naoko Takeuchi)

Can you provide a citation for this data about Glitter Force being a financial success for Toei? As far as I'm aware, Netflix has not released any streaming ratings data for Glitter Force or any of their anime shows. If you're claiming the English dub somehow improved the financial domestic success of the Japanese version, that seems like a major stretch to make.
I have posted a financial report link some post ago the number are into it. Since the release of Glitter Force, 40% of Pretty cure money coming to Toei each year come from the west. It's as much money that saint seiya provided worlwide each years to Toei animation between 2013 and 2015 and 4 time more than Digimon provide to Toei animation each year
With glitter Force the Financial health of Pretty Cure came back at to the level it was in 2010/2011(when the serie was at it's top financial health)
 
Naoko doesn't have a Twitter account and she's a very private individual and doesn't interact with the fans much which I'm always eternally grateful for that she doesn't.
I'm glad Naoko doesn't have Twitter. It would be horrible if she did.
 

Neon Genesis

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Oct 31, 2015
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I am on 3 anime community in France (I am French), and the 3 anime community main positive thing about Crystal season one was the change on the storyline.
In France, most of the fan are fan of the 90's anime, not the manga (and actually Sailormoon was just a moderate success in france where title popular amoung the girls in 80/90 was Versaille no Bara and Saint seiya, the most Successful magical girl in France don't come from Japan, it's the italian comics WITCH )
Most of french fan of sailormoon think the manga storyline is very low and the change were well receveid as they expanded poor character.
PS:It's have been confimed by staff that the Four King romance idea came from Naoko Takeuchi)
I'm glad the fans in France enjoyed the subplot but in the North American fandom, there were all sorts of complaints about how shoehorned the Four Kings' romance plot was in Crystal and that it got barely any screen time or character focus. A lot of fans also complained about how anti-climatic and the poor acting of the Four Kings' death scene in Crystal.

I have posted a financial report link some post ago the number are into it. Since the release of Glitter Force, 40% of Pretty cure money coming to Toei each year come from the west. It's as much money that saint seiya provided worlwide each years to Toei animation between 2013 and 2015 and 4 time more than Digimon provide to Toei animation each year
With glitter Force the Financial health of Pretty Cure came back at to the level it was in 2010/2011(when the serie was at it's top financial health)
Again, it's a stretch to credit Glitter Force for a rise in Western importing of Japanese PreCure merchandise or home video sales. For one thing, it wouldn't make sense for Western fans to start importing merchandise of a 2015 PreCure show because they started watching a localized dub of a PreCure series that originally aired in 2013 and this is mixing correlation with causation without any hard data of what the streaming ratings for Glitter Force were like for Netflix. It's more likely Western imports of Japanese merch increased in 2015 because a lot of Western fans watched fansubs of Go Princess PreCure which is widely regarded as one of the most popular PreCure shows.
 
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