Misconceptions clarified: Usagi and Mamoru's intimacy

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Sailor Star Dust

Lumen Cinererum
Jul 26, 2005
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#1
Staff, please feel free to split/merge this topic into the right category! Searched a few different topics but I couldn't find the proper one to bump for this.

___



This scene caused nosebleeds for teenage girls the world over (myself included).

In the SM Crystal Black Moon arc thread, there was some discussion about a common misconception floating around that I wanted to help clarify (Usagi and Mamoru's relationship). Was hoping this could be a long post that include various translations/scans (Japanese 3rd edition with my translation, Kodansha USA 2nd edition translation, TokyoPop 1st edition translation) but I'm so insanely busy lately this is the most I could do right now. Apologies in advance!

In the 90's anime, Usagi and Mamoru's relationship seems mostly chaste: Though in SuperS, Minako teases Usagi about "knowing Mamoru's room very well", in the Nehelenia arc of Sailor Stars, Usagi mentions how (paraphrasing) "Spring is a season for couples", "she's finally in high school" and "Comfortable around Mamo-chan". Whether or not they ever have sex in Sailor Stars, we just don't know, though they're officially engaged before Mamoru "leaves for America" ( :supercry: ). In my teenage years, I read many a fanfic where they did it, post episode-200. :quagmire: Think I wrote one myself, though it was dark as hell, because teenagers and angst. P-:

In the manga, there are several scenes in the different arcs, such as Black Moon arc and Infinity arc--of Usagi and Mamoru making out (in contrast to various artwork by Naoko that depicts them having non-explicit sex). But the earliest that they could have consummated their relationship is sometime in the Dream arc (like the SM anime, we just don't know when exactly--besides in Act 60). For the curious, this blog goes into the details and IMO explains both Usagi and Mamoru's personalities (manga, at least) perfectly: http://ladyloveandjustice.tumblr.com/po ... tions-that

I can at least confirm in the Japanese 3rd edition Usagi's talking about how it's already spring and she's in high school (How Miss Dream translated the dialogue from Japanese 2nd edition. This line is also similar to Usagi's words in Sailor Stars), while TokyoPop 1st Edition translated this "Just when I thought I was grown up enough to go for it!" vs Kodansha USA's 2nd Edition "With that way-too-long spring finally over, I was hoping we could take our relationship to the next level!"

Of course, in high school-related anime/manga, there's lots of talk about the spring or summer of one's youth (the height of their youth), which, of course, doesn't necessarily mean sex, just relationships in general. And ultimately, what matters about Usagi and Mamoru's relationship is their love, not all the nitty-gritty details. I just hate when misconceptions spread and catch like wildfire! :lol:

If Crystal will indeed animate all 5 manga arcs, I'm definitely looking forward to seeing how it portrays various elements (especially if Naoko changed her mind on some things and/or wants certain things expanded).
 

TESTAMENT

Solaris Luna
May 12, 2014
2,591
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#2
Best thread on this site!

I wonder if Naoko will change crystal to a hentai midway through and remane the show Sailor moon XXX? Just kidding.....Though it did happen to a video game series called Valis.

I don't really see why people are bothered by it at all, I personally found Chibusa and Mamo more questionable, Though it was pretty cute! I don't think either of them care for the adult stuff. Srsly internet, You can have a relationship without sex....
 

TESTAMENT

Solaris Luna
May 12, 2014
2,591
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#4
You know....Unpopular opinion time! But I wouldn't want their relationship to be over the top with innuendos and smut, I'd just want it to be as innocent as possible and not be out of character.....Course Usagi likes boys but she's not the kind to lust over people.

Haruka and Michiru on the other hand :blush: (nosebleed)
 
Jul 21, 2014
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#5
TwinBee Hypno said:
Course Usagi likes boys
Are you quite sure about that? :wink:

There is evidence that Usagi seems to go either way.

Sailor Mars Episode:

(Looks at Rei)

"I wouldn't mind doing that part time"
 

SILVER

Aurorae Lunares
Jan 7, 2014
1,327
576
665
Dark Kingdom
#6
Usagi and Mamo could mate like rabbits and it wouldn't affect my opinion of them. Actually, I'd like them better if they got their freak on xD
 

TESTAMENT

Solaris Luna
May 12, 2014
2,591
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#7
SailorWelshy said:
TwinBee Hypno said:
Course Usagi likes boys
Are you quite sure about that?

There is evidence that Usagi seems to go either way.

(Looks at Rei)

"I wouldn't mind doing that part time"
As Richard Richard would say "Blasted lesbians everywhere!"
 

Sailor Star Dust

Lumen Cinererum
Jul 26, 2005
372
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#9
TwinBee Hypno said:
I wouldn't want their relationship to be over the top with innuendos and smut, I'd just want it to be as innocent as possible and not be out of character....

Haruka and Michiru on the other hand :blush: (nosebleed)
I find their innocence charming in a way (they're still sexy as hell as a couple, of course). Though, I found it pretty ironic how Haruka/Michiru were over the top in the anime while toned down in the manga (but they're still adorable together and helped reassure teenage me that being Bi is absolutely normal).

EDIT:
SailorWelshy said:
I would have thought Usagi would have done that. (Shrugs)
Usagi--and the other girls (obviously minus the wonderfully gay HarukaMichi)--never really gave me any Bi/etc vibes in the anime/manga, just admiration (beauty/whatever else) for other people. Seiya's relationship was her was stated to be a onesided love (manga, and Seiya's anime image song has the words "one-sided love" in the title).

___

Also: I don't really speculate/discuss much stuff in fandom, partly because Eva wore me out several years ago (so...much...stuff) and partly because I prefer going along with what the work itself gives me (I understand "death of the author", but I don't necessarily agree with it). Just figured this was an interesting enough discussion to bring up! :D
 
Jul 21, 2014
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#10
Sailor Star Dust said:
helped reassure teenage me that being Bi is absolutely normal
I would have thought Usagi would have done that. (Shrugs)
 
Jul 21, 2014
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#11
Sailor Star Dust said:
In the manga, there are several scenes in the different arcs, such as Black Moon arc and Infinity arc--of Usagi and Mamoru making out (in contrast to various artwork by Naoko that depicts them having non-explicit sex). But the earliest that they could have consummated their relationship is sometime in the Dream arc (like the SM anime, we just don't know when exactly--besides in Act 60). For the curious, this blog goes into the details and IMO explains both Usagi and Mamoru's personalities (manga, at least) perfectly: http://ladyloveandjustice.tumblr.com/po ... tions-that
I'm a firm believer that that's a retcon.

It was implied in Black Moon that they did it (her losing her undershirt, Mamoru shirtless above her), and it was implied again during Infinity when he tells her not to wake Chibi-usa. And if we go into their past lives, there's that panel where Serenity and Endymion appear to not be wearing anything.

And even Japanese people can't agree on what kiyoikousai is:
http://detail.chiebukuro.yahoo.co.jp/qa ... 1412463954

The "best answer" says it has nothing to do how far the physical intimacy goes and is more about the pureness of your love. All of the other answers range from doing nothing more than holding hands to agreeing that it's about the feelings.
 
May 28, 2010
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#13
I imagine them in the beginning, Mamo being very romantic with Usagi, and Usagi being shy and learning.

And in the 30th Century (Crystal Tokyo) I imagine Neo Queen Serenity liking S&M and tying King Endymion up lol

:ohmy: :ohmy:
 
Apr 2, 2010
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Ñ-land
m.youtube.com
#16
Er, in the aforementioned Mugen/Infinity act they had just finished helping Chibiusa with her art homework, and she was still in the same room when the kissing started, though she obviously wasn't asleep as Usagi and Mamoru thought.

For obvious reasons, I'll go with the theory that they just made out for a while instead of playing the zygote game in front of their future daughter (and the cat).
 
Jul 21, 2014
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#17
Soter said:
For obvious reasons, I'll go with the theory that they just made out for a while instead of playing the zygote game in front of their future daughter (and the cat).
Mamoru's apartment has a living room.
 
Apr 2, 2010
606
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#18
Zoe said:
Soter said:
For obvious reasons, I'll go with the theory that they just made out for a while instead of playing the zygote game in front of their future daughter (and the cat).
Mamoru's apartment has a living room.
Yep. Well, I just hope the door was closed.

You know, I think there was also a scene from the Black Moon arc where Usagi reclined on Mamoru's bed and the two of them kissed as she embraced him or something, I think shortly after a discussion over (guess what?) Chibiusa. It was one of those "To be continued..." moments. I remember thinking that scene looked very beautiful artwork-wise.
 
#19
Zoe said:
Sailor Star Dust said:
In the manga, there are several scenes in the different arcs, such as Black Moon arc and Infinity arc--of Usagi and Mamoru making out (in contrast to various artwork by Naoko that depicts them having non-explicit sex). But the earliest that they could have consummated their relationship is sometime in the Dream arc (like the SM anime, we just don't know when exactly--besides in Act 60). For the curious, this blog goes into the details and IMO explains both Usagi and Mamoru's personalities (manga, at least) perfectly: http://ladyloveandjustice.tumblr.com/po ... tions-that
I'm a firm believer that that's a retcon.

It was implied in Black Moon that they did it (her losing her undershirt, Mamoru shirtless above her), and it was implied again during Infinity when he tells her not to wake Chibi-usa. And if we go into their past lives, there's that panel where Serenity and Endymion appear to not be wearing anything.

And even Japanese people can't agree on what kiyoikousai is:
http://detail.chiebukuro.yahoo.co.jp/qa ... 1412463954

The "best answer" says it has nothing to do how far the physical intimacy goes and is more about the pureness of your love. All of the other answers range from doing nothing more than holding hands to agreeing that it's about the feelings.
Agreed~!
Does the 'when' realy matter all that much?

But from the manga dialogue, though, things point much more firmly to the Dream Arc. But there are some scenes in the Black Moon Arc that hint strongly. I think it's a bit vague.
 

Fire

Aurorae Lunares
Apr 7, 2011
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teo-hoble.deviantart.com
#20
This topic can easily go too far for some... But yes, I agree with those who say they'd like the characters a bit more if they "got their freak on". For one thing I never got the correlation between "intimacy" (or lack thereof) and innocence. That kinda comes with the territory of thinking that being "intimate" is somehow dirty or wrong, when in my mind it's nothing but natural and a sign of trust/closeness. So, before I hear another one of those "but Usagi's meant to be PUUUUREEEE" arguments, I'd just like to "say" http://youtu.be/tj5Pb40xAnY?t=6s

There are many hints in the manga that Mamor and Usagi were indeed intimate. But I don't think there's any definitive answer as to "how far" and "when" because they were left ambiguous on purpose. From what I've seen Naoko seems to be shy when it comes to these things, even though deep down she's a bit pervy herself. So I doubt she'll "expand" or offer a clear response in Crystal. Actually I doubt even the kitchen floor scene is gonna make it in Crystal - I think it'll be washed out like the "gore" in the manga, to make it more "appropriate".