Misconceptions clarified: Usagi and Mamoru's intimacy

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Jul 21, 2014
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#21
Fire said:
think it'll be washed out like the "gore" in the manga, to make it more "appropriate
I don't know....

They kept the scene with Mamo kissing a sleeping Usagi.

And Usagi getting her umbrella from her breasts.

Anyway, the manga didn't show details also, when the two started to kiss the scene then switched to Minako and the cats.
 

TESTAMENT

Solaris Luna
May 12, 2014
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#23
I just want it to be in character.

As for Michiru and Haruka....I'd want to see everything!
 
Jul 21, 2014
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#24
TwinBee Hypno said:
I just want it to be in character.

As for Michiru and Haruka....I'd want to see everything!
Too bad, they're not that flirty in the manga.
 
Jul 21, 2014
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#25
SailorWelshy said:
TwinBee Hypno said:
I just want it to be in character.

As for Michiru and Haruka....I'd want to see everything!
Too bad, they're not that flirty in the manga.
There is that one scene where Haruka totally looks like a dude and is embracing her from behind.
 

doctorwho29

Lumen Cinererum
Sep 29, 2014
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#26
As far as I can remember, the only time in the manga that implied actual sex is in the final chapter right before the wedding. Before that, I tend to think that they didn't do it. Make out yes but not make love. They do just seem too innocent and pure in their love for that. Of course, my own beliefs and bias might be making a difference in my opinion.
 

Fire

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Apr 7, 2011
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#29
doctorwho29 said:
That could still be making out. Maybe I'm being a prude but there is technically room for interpretation in that picture.
You really fit in the category I mentioned earlier, don't you? Of people who think that Usagi "doing it" with Mamoru somehow makes her less "innocent" or "pure"...

Anyhow. I still think the hints are all there but that we'll never get a clear answer to this because Naoko on the one hand has a mind for "sexy" things, but on the other hand is also too shy about it. I remember that illustration she drew, of Usagi topless and in sexy lingerie. The comment next to that image was along the lines of "I wanted to do this and it was so fun but I was afraid of the reaction I'd get when I showed it off - but to my disappointment, nobody said anything!"
 

Kerochan no Miko

Knight Radiant
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Feb 29, 2004
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#31
Fire said:
doctorwho29 said:
That could still be making out. Maybe I'm being a prude but there is technically room for interpretation in that picture.
You really fit in the category I mentioned earlier, don't you? Of people who think that Usagi "doing it" with Mamoru somehow makes her less "innocent" or "pure"...
That's a bit inflammatory. Just because someone thinks there's room for interpretation in a picture (which there is) doesn't automatically mean that they're being judgmental.
 

Fire

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#32
^ I do apologize to doctorwho29 for the tone I used... The images are indeed open to interpretation, as I myself have said later in that comment. And I do think it's intentionally left vague.

BUT it's still true that some fans interpret the act as having a bad effect on the main character's "purity" (and let's not forget that her "purity" is an important element in the story), and I think we should openly discuss whether or not that's the case.

I will try to keep my tone in check more, though. Hard but I'm trying!
 

worldo_shaking

Lumen Cinererum
Mar 17, 2011
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#33
Usagi's ability to both be pure (not that purity is necessarily the be all and end all of what a person, particularly a woman, should strive to be) and sexual is an awesome message to be sending out there in my opinion.

One dictionary definition of "Pure" reads "wholesome and untainted by immorality, especially that of a sexual nature." I don't think this means "wholesome & untainted =/= sexual", but rather "wholesome & untainted =/= sexually immoral," however you'd define that (ie: being sexually immoral may me committing adultery and/or sexually pressuring or harming someone else). Angel-winged Usagi in sexy lingerie is one of my favorite pictures out of Naoko's collections. I feel that it sums that point up quite well.

I guess whether or not Usa & Mamo "did it" doesn't matter much to me. Whether (or rather when) they did or not, they've got a beautiful relationship, wholesome and untainted to boot.
 

doctorwho29

Lumen Cinererum
Sep 29, 2014
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#34
I do tend to associate virginity with purity, partially due to my upbringing. There are also a lot of fairy tales and myths where virgins seem to have "purity power" ...like being able to see unicorns and such.

I also think that it's just not in her slightly childish personality to have sex so easily (of course I admit that this is the weakest of my arguments). I am also remembering at least one translation of the Dream arch where she thinks that she was finally old enough to "go for it" but Palla Palla's curse is in the way. Just a few thoughts of my own.

Oh, and I do accept the apology


[edited by knm to merge a double post]
 

Fire

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#35
doctorwho29 said:
Oh, and I do accept the apology
:keke:

doctorwho29 said:
There are also a lot of fairy tales and myths where virgins seem to have "purity power" ...like being able to see unicorns and such.
True, but the fairytales associate virginity with purity because they were created in a time when women and intimacy were viewed differently. While there is a lot of mythology and folklore in Sailor Moon, the story itself focuses on women who are very powerful but who will also not easily give up on their femininity. And while the other girls are almost certainly not sexually active (apart from Haruka and Michiru, of course), they do make some innuendo jokes or subtle allusions and they do react to people they feel attracted to.

I don't remember what it was like in the manga Dream arc (someone will have to come in and fill in the blanks or correct what I'm gonna say from the anime), but in SuperS Pegasus seems to show up in all children's dreams. The senshi all remember having flown with him when they were toddlers. But obviously those memories are very far away when they're... what? 15? I think the implication here is that the child is pure enough to meet Pegasus because of his dreams and heart, and not because of something physical, like his virginity. While Pegasus does call Chibiusa a "maiden" (which usually implies a young female virgin) in the subs I watched, he also tells her that they'll be able to meet each other for as long as she can dream beautiful dreams - and that's the only limitation he mentions. Not that I expect him to tell her to be "chaste" or anything :lol: but that's what I understand from the wording.

So yeah, the unicorn-purity lore is there, but the purity isn't necessarily physical - it's spiritual. So on that note, I think Usagi can do whatever she wants with her body as long as she retains her loving, innocent heart.

But also, that's just me and it's all filtered through the way I perceive women and sexuality ^_^'
 

doctorwho29

Lumen Cinererum
Sep 29, 2014
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#36
That all does make sense Fire.

To elaborate on my Dream reference, I'm talking about a scene in "Mercury Dream" after Usagi and Chibiusa had switched ages. The now child Usagi was caring for a sick Mamoru and bemoaned having the body of child because she finally thought she was old enough to "go for it." Then both her and Mamoru look very awkward and think "This body sucks." If the translation can be trusted then it seems that they haven't gone all the way yet.

Anyway, I've explained my arguments and there doesn't seem much point in me going on unless something profound is brought up. Ultimately it is up to our personal interpretation and further arguing might devolve into childish bickering.
 
Jul 21, 2014
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#38
doctorwho29 said:
To elaborate on my Dream reference, I'm talking about a scene in "Mercury Dream" after Usagi and Chibiusa had switched ages. The now child Usagi was caring for a sick Mamoru and bemoaned having the body of child because she finally thought she was old enough to "go for it." Then both her and Mamoru look very awkward and think "This body sucks." If the translation can be trusted then it seems that they haven't gone all the way yet.
I don't think that means they couldn't have done stuff before, just that their moments truly alone are few and far between (which Usagi says in that chapter). Their previous intimate encounters only took place when Chibi-usa was deliberately taken out of the equation.
 

Kerochan no Miko

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#39
There's a certain level of innocence that children possess and most adults don't, and it has nothing to do with sex. It's all in the way people view the world and other people - Usagi is "pure" enough to believe in her heart of hearts that everyone deserves to be loved, no matter who they are. That's not going to change if she sleeps with Mamoru or not.
 
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#40
Kerochan no Miko said:
There's a certain level of innocence that children possess and most adults don't, and it has nothing to do with sex. It's all in the way people view the world and other people - Usagi is "pure" enough to believe in her heart of hearts that everyone deserves to be loved, no matter who they are. That's not going to change if she sleeps with Mamoru or not.
Olé tú, Miko. :clap: