Queen Serenity Stars arc

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John

Aurorae Lunares
Dec 20, 2011
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#21
I would add that do we know that Queen Serenity wished to throw herself into the cauldron after she brought the shell of a star with the same luminescence as Usagi. It dosen't look to me that Queen Serenity was said to have done that rather it was assumed that Usagi, Mamoru and her Senshi wanted to do this I don't know if it was stated that Queen Serenity wished to go back in the cauldron to start a new destiny?
According to Memento, the idea of Queen Serenity going into the cauldron was a mistranslation on the part of Miss Dream; Tokyopop and Kodansha translated it the way you're assuming.
 

MariaTenebre

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Jul 22, 2009
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#22
According to Memento, the idea of Queen Serenity going into the cauldron was a mistranslation on the part of Miss Dream; Tokyopop and Kodansha translated it the way you're assuming.
Oh sorry I didn't catch that. Well anyway my take on it was that basically the shell was Queen Serenity's creative essence and she had it filled with the Cauldron's Energy this making Princess Serenity. I guess they are saying that Queen Serenity gave birth to Princess Serenity through Parthenogenesis which would fit with the whole Messiah theme with Sailor Moon.
 

Time Sage

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#23
I interpret this scene as Queen Serenity creating either her daughter or ensuring that her daughter's reincarnation will have the Silver Crystal as her Sailor Crystal. We don't see Sailor Moon during the events of the Silver Millennium and the Silver Crystal isn't depicted as Serenity's Sailor Crystal, but it is depicted as Usagi's/Sailor Moon's Sailor Crystal. It could be that Queen Serenity created Serenity artificially, maybe as a clone of herself, or like you said Maria gave birth to her immaculately. But also like you suggested, it could've been Queen Serenity visiting post-mortem and trying to ensure that Serenity's reincarnation will become Sailor Moon.
The Silver Crystal had to Evolve into the Silver Moon Crystal for Usagi and into the Pink Moon Crystal for Chibi-usa before it was a Sailor Crystal. Usagi was more or less a fake Senshi up until that point. Sailor Moon wasn't supposed to exist but because she kept wanting to be one to keep fighting the Silver Crystal eventually granted her wish by becoming her Sailor Crystal.

Miss Dreams transactions can be very wonky, or faulty.This is why personally don't use her transactions as references or viewing.
She's also a jerk. I avoid her stuff because I find her behavior appalling.
 

MariaTenebre

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Jul 22, 2009
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#24
The Silver Crystal had to Evolve into the Silver Moon Crystal for Usagi and into the Pink Moon Crystal for Chibi-usa before it was a Sailor Crystal. Usagi was more or less a fake Senshi up until that point. Sailor Moon wasn't supposed to exist but because she kept wanting to be one to keep fighting the Silver Crystal eventually granted her wish by becoming her Sailor Crystal.


She's also a jerk. I avoid her stuff because I find her behavior appalling.
I don't think that Usagi was a fake Senshi. The Silver Crystal became a part of her and in seems like all of the Moon Family can manifest it. She definitely is not a fake Senshi like the Animamates in the manga.
 
Sep 13, 2009
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#25
And to cap off, here's the old Alex Glover translation, and boy is it weird:


"Long ago, there were shining stars that came here like you, as perfect star forms. In my breast I held the cast-off shell of a small star. That star, too, carried strong brilliance like yours, Sailor Moon. Saying it would come here to me, that life was lost to this Cauldron's sea of origin. Saying you want to create a new history of the stars? I wonder if that means you want to leave here in those star forms?"
 

MementoNepenthe

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#26
Bumping this thread because I've been thinking about this issue again.

So, to recap, while the scene in general is vague and open to interpretation, the word that was giving me the most trouble was ぬけがら nukegara. This word primarily refers to a molting, such as the shed skin of a snake or the shed exoskeleton of a cicada. This seemed like a bizarre word choice to me, but given that Naoko wrote it in hiragana instead of kanji, I felt like she probably didn't mean it in such a literal sense. Official and unofficial English versions of the manga have translated the word as "shell," "husk," "cast-off shell," and "fragment," but none of those felt quite right to me.

Upon doing some more research, I was able to find some other definitions of "nukegara." According to a few dictionaries, the word can be used metaphorically to indicate being in a vacant state, as if one's soul were lost. Another dictionary defined it as "a mere shadow of one's true self."

This being the case, the Italian translation of "the shadow of a small star" (supplied by Akari @ria) would appear to be the most accurate of all the translations discussed so far. Assuming this to be so, I'd like to amend my own:

Once upon a time, there was a shining star that came here, a star perfectly formed like all of you, nursing another star that had lost its shine to her chest. That star also had the same powerful radiance as you, Sailor Moon. Finally, that star has come back to me to throw her life into the primordial sea of this Cauldron. Do you want to start a new star's history? Or do you want to leave here in the same form of a star?

As we can see, this new translation runs into a bit of a problem: If the star Queen Serenity brought to the Cauldron had no shine of its own, it can't be the star with the same radiance as Sailor Moon has that Guardian Cosmos mentions. GC would have to be referring to Queen Serenity. But then that would make her statement that "finally, that star has come back" seemingly untrue, unless we're to believe Sailor Moon is the reincarnation of Queen Serenity? Or that she's a combo reincarnation of the Queen and Princess? (Which I guess would explain why the Queen wasn't reincarnated.) Or that a star with no shine was still somehow, paradoxically, incredibly radiant?

Still, the non-shedding definitions of "nukegara" that I was able to find indicate that, metaphorically, the word suggests a loss of soul or heart. GC's use of the word would then suggest that this scene is of Queen Serenity bringing the dead Princess Serenity to the cauldron, rather than being of the princess's conception/birth. But 1) why do we see a picture of the Queen cooing over the infant princess? and 2) it seems weird and highly unlikely that Queen Serenity, on the verge of dying after using the Silver Crystal, was able to bring her dead daughter to the center of the galaxy. There would be no need for her to do that, unless she required the Cauldron to do something unusual, like merge her soul with her daughter's?

So being not entirely satisfied with this translation, I keep searching. Voice actress Shiina Natsukawa last month released her first photo book, entitled "Nukegara." The publisher explained the title by saying:

Assuming that our hero is a girl chasing after a dream, the title "Nukegara" was chosen to match the nostalgic content of snapshots of how a girl spent the four seasons.
"A mere shadow of one's true self" or "a lost soul" doesn't seem to match up with that concept, so I wondered if they were using the word in another way...

As an adjective, the word "fledgling" means inexperienced or newly born, and as a noun it can mean an insect who has just undergone a molting. Perhaps "nukegara" can be used to suggest the same thing: a newness or inexperience, a coming into one's own, by way of analogy with, say, the molting of a cicada. In that case, the line in question could be translated

Once upon a time, there was a shining star that came here, a star perfectly formed like all of you, nursing a fledgling star to her chest.

To me, that would make the most sense. It doesn't cause weirdness with the rest of GC's monolog. It doesn't contradict the images we're shown or what we know about the timeline. It's not a weirdly morbid or depressing sentence. I think it's probably the closest to what (I think) Naoko intended. But, at the same time, were that Naoko's intention, surely she would have just used a different, far less confusing and ambiguous term? So...I'm still not completely convinced that's right either. :\

What do you guys think? Fledgling star, or star that had lost its shine?
 

Seira Hazuki

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Jan 17, 2007
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#27
The imagery of Serenity cradling a newborn Princess seems to match the more positive meaning even though it’s not quite a literal translation.

Plus the interpretation that it’s Queen Serenity bringing a dead Serenity doesn’t make too much sense since:

1) The Sailor Guardians died in the Stars arc and there’s no mention of their starseeds losing their shine.
2) If she needed to bring Princess Serenity to the Cauldron to ensure she was reincarnated... What about the other senshi?

We have to remember that Naoko mentioned that she rushed through dialogue to the point she won’t even recall ever coming up with it. So there’s a chance she might have used a word without having a full grasp on it.
 

chunpok

Lapis Lunaris
Dec 29, 2018
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#29
Interesting. Just read the Taiwanese version, the official one published by Da Ran probably in 1997.
很久以前,也有一顆燦爛的星星,以完全的形態來到迢裡。
她的胸前抱著一顆剛出生的小星星。
那星星散發著和妳同樣強烈的光芒,水手月亮!
而且,她所以會來到我這裡,是因為將生命投入這科爾多隆的原初之海中。
妳是想要創造新的星星歷史呢?
還是,妳想就以這個樣子離開這裡呢?
The term "ぬけがら" is translated as "剛出生的"(meaning new born).
Yeah, so "a fledgling star" is the answer.
In terms of meaning, this translation is quite similar to MementoNepenthe's,
except the fourth line, "And the reason of her coming to me is to throw (her? [no determiner used]) life into the primordial sea of this Cauldron."

To me, Queen Serenity just visited Guardian Cosmos and GC asked her to choose between a new star herstory and her own herstory.
Obviously, our Queen chose option A. (maybe she knew Princess Serenity had that star quality and wanted her to have her own herstory or maybe she was just sick of being Sailor Moon)
She remained alive until she used the silver crystal to seal the Dark Kingdom. Then died and the Queen Serenity herstory ended for good.
And the Princess Serenity herstory started since our Princess is reincarnated as Sailor Moon.
Now GC asks the same question and Princess Serenity refuses to end her own herstory.
So no matter how many times they die, our Princess will always be reincarnated as Sailor Moon, just like Setsuna and Hotaru will always be Sailor Pluto and Saturn, until they give up the identity.

And yeah, I believe the "life" in line 4 is a metaphor of the perfectly formed star identity / the Sailor Moon identity.
 

MementoNepenthe

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#30
In that case, barring any further linguistic discoveries, this is my final translation, with notes:

Once upon a time, long, long ago*, there was a shining star that came here, a star as perfectly formed as thou and all thy friends*. She nursed a newborn* star to her chest. That star had the same powerful radiance as you, Sailor Moon. So. Having come back to me and thrown your life* into the Cauldron's sea of beginnings, do you wish to start a new star's history? Or do you want to leave here as the stars you are now?

1. "Mukashi," the word with which Guardian Cosmos opens her monolog, suggests ancient times or a distant past, so I added the "long, long ago" to emphasize that.
2. The word GC uses, "omae-tachi" is either an informal word used in masculine speech (which doesn't seem to fit her character) or an archaic second person pronoun used to refer to peers or inferiors. The closest analog in English would be thou, which is singular, thus "thou and all thy friends."
3. Rather than stick with "fledgling," I'm going to follow the Taiwanese translation's example and use "newborn"
4. Like a big dummy, I'm only just know realizing that this scene takes place *inside of* the Cauldron after Sailor Moon threw herself into it, so I changed the way I worded this line to reflect that better.
 

Serena-Hime

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Sep 14, 2017
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#31
This is an interesting discussion! I don't know much about translations and I've only read the Stars arc once so I can't add much to the meaning or translating, but my assumption has always been that QS isn't actually from the moon and that some time in-between her finding the moon and creating Silver Millennium, she found the developing Sailor Crystal of the moon and nurtured it herself, and whatever she did at the Cauldron had something to do with that. Note the fact that QS wears a tiara rather than having a permanent forehead-crescent like Princess Serenity.

It's also always been my assumption that the Silver Crystal was never really QS' in the first place and has always belonged to Princess Serenity, and the Queen was only permitted to access it's power in order to protect Silver Millennium until Princess Serenity was old/powerful enough to take her place as the queen. Evidence for this would be the fact that despite QS' age and wisdom, she couldn't seal away Metalia properly while SM could defeat her even while lacking experience as a Sailor Senshi.

Chibiusa has her own silver crystal in the manga, so if QS were Princess Serenity's biological mother, wouldn't it be safe to assume that she'd have her own silver crystal as well? Or maybe the crystal in Silver Millennium is a different (and perhaps less powerful) crystal from the one that SM has, and Princess Serenity just hadn't revealed her own personal Silver Crystal because there was no reason to do so, just like there was no reason for her to transform into a senshi until after she'd been reincarnated.

Anyway that's just my 2 cents (some of it unrelated to the OP lol)
 

MementoNepenthe

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#32
Interesting thoughts, @Serena-Hime, but if I may point out a few things...

1. I never thought of Queen Serenity as having a tiara instead of a crescent moon mark; I always thought of her tiara as simply going across her crescent moon mark, as it doesn't look to me like her crescent moon is a jewel or anything like that.

2. In Act 10, Queen Serenity says:
「わたしたちは月に生まれた長寿の生命体. 月に伝わる聖石“幻の銀水晶”を守り地球のマイナスの因子をとりのぞき.
地球がプラスの方向へよりよく進化していくのを監視し助けることが使命.」

My translation: "We who are born of the Moon are long-lived beings. We protect the Fabulous Silver Crystal, the holy stone of the moon handed down to us, and remove negative influences from Earth. Our mission is to monitor the Earth and help it to evolve in a more positive direction."

From this statement, it's clear that the Silver Crystal is something of a Moon Family heirloom. It existed before Queen Serenity was ever born, and thus she must be a native of the moon. She did not find the crystal, nor did she found the Silver Millennium. In a sense, you are right that the crystal was never really Queen Serenity's in the first place, but only because she inherited it (presumably from her mother) as Princess Serenity inherited it from her.

3. Queen Serenity was unable to seal Metalia away properly because the power of the Silver Crystal is dependent on the user's emotional state. Because Queen Serenity was so overcome with grief, she wasn't able to use its power correctly. It had nothing to do with whether or not the crystal was truly hers.

4. Sailor Moon's Sailor Crystal is the "Silver Moon Crystal" which is different from the "Maboroshi no Ginzuishou." Similarly, Chibi Moon's crystal is the "Pink Moon Crystal." These seem to be evolutions, permutations, or continuations of the MnG. Also note that MnG is apparently a substance/element, not just a single crystal, as the Holy Sword and even some of the Moon Palace itself seem to be made of Silver Crystal.

=================

I came across this Japanese fan discussion of the manga from 2002 and one fan seems to think Queen Serenity died in the Cauldron. So at least we're not the only ones who find that part of the manga a little confusing. (Though they also seem to think Prince Demand was a descendant of Death Phantom, so either I'm missing something or this person is just confused in general) :lol:
 
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Serena-Hime

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#33
Interesting points!
Interesting thoughts, @Serena-Hime, but if I may point out a few things...

1. I never thought of Queen Serenity as having a tiara instead of a crescent moon mark; I always thought of her tiara as simply going across her crescent moon mark, as it doesn't look to me like her crescent moon is a jewel or anything like that.
I've always thought of it as a tiara rather than something going across/on top of her crescent mark, since it's seemingly attached at the sides of the crescent- of course, Sailor Cosmos has a similar design so it could just be a design choice and not significant, but it's fun to speculate. The crescent could be made of some sort of metal, specifically intended to closely resemble Serenity's mark.

2. In Act 10, Queen Serenity says:
「わたしたちは月に生まれた長寿の生命体. 月に伝わる聖石“幻の銀水晶”を守り地球のマイナスの因子をとりのぞき.
地球がプラスの方向へよりよく進化していくのを監視し助けることが使命.」

My translation: "We who are born of the Moon are long-lived beings. We protect the Fabulous Silver Crystal, the holy stone of the moon handed down to us, and remove negative influences from Earth. Our mission is to monitor the Earth and help it to evolve in a more positive direction."

From this statement, it's clear that the Silver Crystal is something of a Moon Family heirloom. It existed before Queen Serenity was ever born, and thus she must be a native of the moon. She did not find the crystal, nor did she found the Silver Millennium. In a sense, you are right that the crystal was never really Queen Serenity's in the first place, but only because she inherited it (presumably from her mother) as Princess Serenity inherited it from her.
I forgot about this quote, that definitely does conflict with my theory, though it seems to conflict with the rest of the manga as well; in the manga, Chibiusa's crystal isn't NQS'- she creates it herself, in the same way Sailor Moon's crystal comes out from within her body in the Dark Kingdom arc, and we see Venus still holding the future Silver Crystal within that came chapter. So either it's both, and the crystal can be both handed down through the Moon Family and they can also create their own crystals, or it's one of those two things, though I personally think the latter theory has more support within the manga.

Naoko didn't really think this through very well did she lol. It's not easy to definitively say anything one way or the other, because Naoko clearly liked to make things up as she went along.

Chibiusa dies when her silver crystal is taken from her in the Infinity arc, and senshi die when their Sailor Crystals are stolen, so that would conflict with what QS' said- unless it's passed down only when the previous owner dies, or there's some weird 'voluntary suicide' thing that happens when it's time for the next person to assume the throne and Chibiusa's crystal is an exception.

3. Queen Serenity was unable to seal Metalia away properly because the power of the Silver Crystal is dependent on the user's emotional state. Because Queen Serenity was so overcome with grief, she wasn't able to use its power correctly. It had nothing to do with whether or not the crystal was truly hers.
I took this into account when forming that theory, Queen Serenity is presumably very old and experienced, so I think she'd have the emotional willpower to be able to use the crystal effectively even when she's in such a compromised emotional state, and if she couldn't, I think it's feasible that the crystal never belonged to her in the first place, and her lack of emotional willpower made her even less connected to it. I think it's possible that she was granted some sort of access to it (perhaps when she was at the GC) so that she'd be able to protect the kingdom and Princess Serenity, but it was always a part of Princess Serenity and belonged to her.

4. Sailor Moon's Sailor Crystal is the "Silver Moon Crystal" which is different from the "Maboroshi no Ginzuishou." Similarly, Chibi Moon's crystal is the "Pink Moon Crystal." These seem to be evolutions, permutations, or continuations of the MnG. Also note that MnG is apparently a substance/element, not just a single crystal, as the Holy Sword and even some of the Moon Palace itself seem to be made of Silver Crystal.
IIRC the Silver Crystal doesn't evolve to the Silver Moon Crystal until the Stars arc. Was the Silver Crystal not considered to be her Sailor Crystal until then? I can't recall. If so, that would be really weird because she'd already been using it to transform since the Black Moon Arc.

I don't recall the Holy Sword or the Moon Palace (I'm assuming you mean the Crystal Tower specifically) being made of Silver Crystal, or at least it was never explicitly stated to be afaik.
 
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MementoNepenthe

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#34
I forgot about this quote, that definitely does conflict with my theory, though it seems to conflict with the rest of the manga as well; in the manga, Chibiusa's crystal isn't NQS'- she creates it herself, in the same way Sailor Moon's crystal comes out from within her body in the Dark Kingdom arc, and we see Venus still holding the future Silver Crystal within that came chapter. So either it's both, and the crystal can be both handed down through the Moon Family and they can also create their own crystals, or it's one of those two things, though I personally think the latter theory has more support within the manga.

Naoko didn't really think this through very well did she lol. It's not easy to definitively say anything one way or the other, because Naoko clearly liked to make things up as she went along.

Chibiusa dies when her silver crystal is taken from her in the Infinity arc, and senshi die when their Sailor Crystals are stolen, so that would conflict with what QS' said- unless it's passed down only when the previous owner dies, or there's some weird 'voluntary suicide' thing that happens when it's time for the next person to assume the throne and Chibiusa's crystal is an exception.
Yeah, Naoko did...not think her thoughts through. :lol:

Do the Sailors really die because their Sailor Crystals are stolen? Or do they die because, well, in the process of having their crystals stolen, they're basically blown to smithereens by Galaxia/the Animamates? It's not like their Sailor Crystals are magicked out of their bodies the way their Pure Heart Crystals or Dream Mirrors were in the anime, so it's a bit hard to tell what the real~ cause of death is.

Keep in mind that the Sailors don't get their Sailor Crystals until the Dream arc, so presumably they've been living until then without them? And Usagi always kept the Silver Crystal as separate from her body, whether in one of her brooches or just on display in the Crystal Palace. (And given that it's the MnG on display in the future and not the SMC, it would seem they are separate, simultaneously-existing crystals. I mean, obviously the SMC didn't exist yet when Naoko wrote the BMC arc, but you know what I mean! :P)


I took this into account when forming that theory, Queen Serenity is presumably very old and experienced, so I think she'd have the emotional willpower to be able to use the crystal effectively even when she's in such a compromised emotional state, and if she couldn't, I think it's feasible that the crystal never belonged to her in the first place, and her lack of emotional willpower made her even less connected to it. I think it's possible that she was granted some sort of access to it (perhaps when she was at the GC) so that she'd be able to protect the kingdom and Princess Serenity, but it was always a part of Princess Serenity and belonged to her.
I mean...her daughter had just committed suicide. Let QS be an emotional wreck if she wants to be! Besides, we know the Silver Millennium was largely a peaceful era, so perhaps she hadn't had much practice using the Silver Crystal? Especially with the Outers keeping the Solar System safe from enemies for her...

I don't recall the Holy Sword or the Moon Palace (I'm assuming you mean the Crystal Tower specifically) being made of Silver Crystal, or at least it was never explicitly stated to be afaik.
Minako comments that the sword seems to be made of MnG. I guess that's technically not official confirmation, but why have Minako say that if Naoko didn't intend that to be fact?
 

Serena-Hime

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#35
Yeah, Naoko did...not think her thoughts through. :lol:

Do the Sailors really die because their Sailor Crystals are stolen? Or do they die because, well, in the process of having their crystals stolen, they're basically blown to smithereens by Galaxia/the Animamates? It's not like their Sailor Crystals are magicked out of their bodies the way their Pure Heart Crystals or Dream Mirrors were in the anime, so it's a bit hard to tell what the real~ cause of death is.
This is definitely a confusing bit- aren't Sailor Crystals supposed to be specially-developed Starseeds? And presumably people die when their Starseeds are removed. I don't have my manga on hand but just looking at one panel, the Sailor Crystals in the Stars arc look similar to the Starseeds in the anime, while the Sailor Crystals in the Dream Arc are heart shaped. Maybe Naoko decided to use the same word for different crystals? :lol: Every day I'm a little more disappointed in Naoko's ability to tell a story consistently, it's like Alien Covenent x100 lmao

And Usagi always kept the Silver Crystal as separate from her body, whether in one of her brooches or just on display in the Crystal Palace. (And given that it's the MnG on display in the future and not the SMC, it would seem they are separate, simultaneously-existing crystals. I mean, obviously the SMC didn't exist yet when Naoko wrote the BMC arc, but you know what I mean! :P)
This is very different from what the Stars arc would lead you to believe about Sailor Crystals, yes! I believe Galaxia's crystal was attached to her brooch as well. It may be that certain senshi have the ability to keep their crystals outside of their own bodies while others don't, for whatever reason.

Naoko makes a similar mistake in the Stars arc, where the future senshi seem to still be dressed in their Super fukus rather than their eternal ones! You'd assume she would have made alterations to the future to reflect the developing storyline, but...nope! LOL


I mean...her daughter had just committed suicide. Let QS be an emotional wreck if she wants to be! Besides, we know the Silver Millennium was largely a peaceful era, so perhaps she hadn't had much practice using the Silver Crystal? Especially with the Outers keeping the Solar System safe from enemies for her...
Well yes that is possible, but even with her inexperience as a senshi and all of the pain she goes through in the Dark Kingdom arc, Sailor Moon is still able to defeat Metalia (though with emotional support). Despite QS' age, Sailor Moon always seems to have more heart and emotional willpower than her, and it's her one defining quality throughout the series (and seems to be a major source of her power), which leads me to believe that she's more compatible with the Silver Crystal than QS' is. Either Sailor Moon is just exceptionally talented with the Silver Crystal, or it was meant for her in the first place- I personally think the latter is more possible.

It's possible that QS just forgot the most effective way to use the Silver Crystal, but I always thought she was several thousand years old (if not more) so I'd think she'd be experienced enough to remember something like that, even after a long period of time.

Minako comments that the sword seems to be made of MnG. I guess that's technically not official confirmation, but why have Minako say that if Naoko didn't intend that to be fact?
I think it's feasible that it was more like an ''I wonder if this mystical weapon of power is made of the same material as the other newfound powerful thing from the same place?'' IIRC it did go in a similar way to that, but I could be wrong. I don't remember if this was also in the manga (I've seen the anime at least ten times more than I've read the manga) but in Sailor Moon R, the senshi (or the cats) ask a similar question about the crystal that NQS is held in. If it's not in the manga it's not relevant of course, but it is interesting to point out that they tend to ask questions like that. I know I would if I were in Venus' situation.

I think the Holy Sword is petrified into stone by the time they get to the moon, too? It's possible that the Silver Crystal could do the same thing if left to rot on the moon for a couple thousand years, though.
 
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MementoNepenthe

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#36
This is definitely a confusing bit- aren't Sailor Crystals supposed to be specially-developed Starseeds? . . . I don't have my manga on hand but just looking at one panel, the Sailor Crystals in the Stars arc look similar to the Starseeds in the anime, while the Sailor Crystals in the Dream Arc are heart shaped. . . .

. . . Naoko makes a similar mistake in the Stars arc, where the future senshi seem to still be dressed in their Super fukus rather than their eternal ones! You'd assume she would have made alterations to the future to reflect the developing storyline, but...nope! LOL
Yeah, the Sailor Crystals are supposed to be Star Seeds that sync up with a heavenly body and grow alongside it. And yeah, they're heart shaped in the Dream arc and then diamond shaped in the Stars arc... You know... Naoko did seem to like playing card motifs... Maybe they'd have been spade shaped in a sixth arc and club shaped in a seventh :lol:

Crystal *could* have been a great opportunity to correct those plot inconsistencies. They could have shown the Inners in their Eternal uniforms during the Black Moon arc, maybe even included Uranus, Neptune, and Saturn in ~mysterious silhouette~ form in the background of some shots in the last episode or something, and they could have dropped at least a brief mention of Sailor Crystals during the first arc, but....instead we got 1/27th-a$$ed SenxShi pairings.

And then there's the whole thing with a fragment of the Silver Crystal breaking off and going into Tuxedo Mask's body... So either the MnG truly is distinct from Usagi's Sailor Crystal, or Sailor Crystals can fragment without any major repercussions?


Either Sailor Moon is just exceptionally talented with the Silver Crystal, or it was meant for her in the first place- I personally think the latter is more possible.

It's possible that QS just forgot the most effective way to use the Silver Crystal, but I always thought she was several thousand years old (if not more)
Sailor Moon *is* the most special person to have ever specialed, so you may be right. Also, I thought White Moon Kingdom people only lived around 1000 years? So I don't think QS would be thousands of years old.

I think it's feasible that it was more like an ''I wonder if this mystical weapon of power is made of the same material as the other newfound powerful thing from the same place?'' IIRC it did go in a similar way to that, but I could be wrong. I don't remember if this was also in the manga (I've seen the anime at least ten times more than I've read the manga) but in Sailor Moon R, the senshi (or the cats) ask a similar question about the crystal that NQS is held in. If it's not in the manga it's not relevant of course, but it is interesting to point out that they tend to ask questions like that. I know I would if I were in Venus' situation.

I think the Holy Sword is petrified into stone by the time they get to the moon, too? It's possible that the Silver Crystal could do the same thing if left to rot on the moon for a couple thousand years, though.
In the manga, Luna asks (but it's one of those sort-of-a-question, sort-of-a-statement things) if NQS is encased in Silver Crystal. King Endymion doesn't say she's not, so presumably she is indeed encased in Silver Crystal. No, that's not a plot hole at all. What are you talking about? :lol: (Seriously though, I guess there's Silver Crystal the multi-purpose substance and Silver Crystal the weapon.)

The Holy Sword was petrified because of some mysterious, unidentified/unexplained element that had poisoned it and the rest of the moon. After Venus stabs Beryl, the Sword returns to crystal. (It's also a bit awkward that she keeps calling it the Holy Sword made to protect the Princess because...isn't it the sword Serenity used to kill herself? It certainly looks the same, and Sailor Moon certainly ends up stabbing herself with it, so..... :lol:)
 

Serena-Hime

Luna Crescens
Sep 14, 2017
100
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Trampa, Florida
#37
Yeah, the Sailor Crystals are supposed to be Star Seeds that sync up with a heavenly body and grow alongside it. And yeah, they're heart shaped in the Dream arc and then diamond shaped in the Stars arc... You know... Naoko did seem to like playing card motifs... Maybe they'd have been spade shaped in a sixth arc and club shaped in a seventh :lol:
I'm waiting for a joke about Porsche-shaped Sailor Crystals :lol:

Crystal *could* have been a great opportunity to correct those plot inconsistencies. They could have shown the Inners in their Eternal uniforms during the Black Moon arc, maybe even included Uranus, Neptune, and Saturn in ~mysterious silhouette~ form in the background of some shots in the last episode or something, and they could have dropped at least a brief mention of Sailor Crystals during the first arc, but....instead we got 1/27th-a$$ed SenxShi pairings.
You're right, it would have been the perfect moment to make those changes! Naoko also redrew a lot of the manga for the 2011 release so I don't know why she didn't make these changes to the future scenes, and even alter some of the dialogue to provide more consistency.

To make it even more irritating, the Crystal NQS statue at the Sailor Moon Exhibition is holding the Eternal Tiare staff. I checked the manga multiple times in the Stars arc and I couldn't find a single page where NQS held that staff...so they made at least one alteration to reflect the timeline but not within the actual Crystal anime lol. (Her dress is also stunning but that's not relevant lol)

And then there's the whole thing with a fragment of the Silver Crystal breaking off and going into Tuxedo Mask's body... So either the MnG truly is distinct from Usagi's Sailor Crystal, or Sailor Crystals can fragment without any major repercussions?
This scene has always confused me, I think there must have been some issue in the translation because the Silver Crystal is always shown to be completely intact in the series. So I think 'fragment' is incorrect, unless it's used as 'a fragment of it's power' because the panel makes it look like some of the magic is coming out of the crystal and transferring into Mamoru's body, rather than a physical fragment of the crystal, and then it seemingly loses most (or all) of it's power until the end. If you're just looking at the Dark Kingdom arc and not taking the later arcs into account, one would think she can live without the crystal (or without any of it's power), but looking at the series as a whole, my assumption is that it wasn't completely depleted of power (either a significant amount of it was taken away, or Usagi just wasn't *ready* to access it).



Sailor Moon *is* the most special person to have ever specialed, so you may be right. Also, I thought White Moon Kingdom people only lived around 1000 years? So I don't think QS would be thousands of years old.
I don't remember if it was explicitly mentioned how long Queen Serenity had lived for- I personally wouldn't lump her in with the 'regular folk' so I think she would have lived longer than that.

If I'm going by my theory, I think she was much, much older than that. If she wasn't originally from the moon, my theory is that she'd been around for thousands of years before she got there and found Baby Serenity (in the form of the silver crystal)



In the manga, Luna asks (but it's one of those sort-of-a-question, sort-of-a-statement things) if NQS is encased in Silver Crystal. King Endymion doesn't say she's not, so presumably she is indeed encased in Silver Crystal. No, that's not a plot hole at all. What are you talking about? :lol: (Seriously though, I guess there's Silver Crystal the multi-purpose substance and Silver Crystal the weapon.)
This entire scene makes me think about the Dic dub where Endymion matter-of-factly says ''No, it's quartz'' :lol:. Anyway, personally I think it must have been something different from Silver Crystal, some kind of unknown crystal specifically meant to be used as a barrier.

The Holy Sword was petrified because of some mysterious, unidentified/unexplained element that had poisoned it and the rest of the moon. After Venus stabs Beryl, the Sword returns to crystal. (It's also a bit awkward that she keeps calling it the Holy Sword made to protect the Princess because...isn't it the sword Serenity used to kill herself? It certainly looks the same, and Sailor Moon certainly ends up stabbing herself with it, so....:lol:
Well I guess, now, the inexplicable cause would have been Sailor Saturn, which again introduces some plot holes. Saturn's powers are supposed to be highly destructive...why are there any remnants of Silver Millennium on the moon then? Maybe she went really light with the destruction to ensure some kind of preservation. I mean, the moon itself is still there too, so I suppose that's the only possibility (outside of Naoko's lack of consistency ofc, or Saturn just being less powerful than everyone thinks LOL).

The Holy Suicidal Love Sword™...sounds like an attack name l :lol: I didn't think about the awkwardness with the name given it's history...that's a little sad lol


Sometimes I get a little sad when I start overanalyzing Sailor Moon because there are so many flaws in the lore. Almost like when I remember that the Silver Crystal was based on a paperweight. :lol:
 

MementoNepenthe

Systema Solare
Mar 8, 2012
5,138
4,598
1,665
underwatersphinx.blogspot.com
#38
To make it even more irritating, the Crystal NQS statue at the Sailor Moon Exhibition is holding the Eternal Tiare staff. I checked the manga multiple times in the Stars arc and I couldn't find a single page where NQS held that staff...so they made at least one alteration to reflect the timeline but not within the actual Crystal anime lol. (Her dress is also stunning but that's not relevant lol)
I think that exhibit was based on the coronation scene from the end of the Dream arc, where Usagi (as NQS) has the Eternal Tier.

This entire scene makes me think about the Dic dub where Endymion matter-of-factly says ''No, it's quartz'' :lol:. Anyway, personally I think it must have been something different from Silver Crystal, some kind of unknown crystal specifically meant to be used as a barrier.
After their little murder/suicide thing at the end of the Dark Kingdom arc, Usagi's and Mamoru's corpses are enshrined in Silver Crystal, so that seems to be an established power/property.


Well I guess, now, the inexplicable cause would have been Sailor Saturn, which again introduces some plot holes. Saturn's powers are supposed to be highly destructive...why are there any remnants of Silver Millennium on the moon then? Maybe she went really light with the destruction to ensure some kind of preservation. I mean, the moon itself is still there too, so I suppose that's the only possibility (outside of Naoko's lack of consistency ofc, or Saturn just being less powerful than everyone thinks LOL).
I mean... We kept hearing that if Saturn dropped her scythe, the world would be destroyed. She dropped her scythe and...everything seemed fine? There was some destruction, but no more than always accompanies these ultimate showdowns. So yeah, I think her powers were just overstated.
 

MementoNepenthe

Systema Solare
Mar 8, 2012
5,138
4,598
1,665
underwatersphinx.blogspot.com
#39
I don't remember if it was explicitly mentioned how long Queen Serenity had lived for- I personally wouldn't lump her in with the 'regular folk' so I think she would have lived longer than that.

If I'm going by my theory, I think she was much, much older than that. If she wasn't originally from the moon, my theory is that she'd been around for thousands of years before she got there and found Baby Serenity (in the form of the silver crystal)
Thinking about this some more... Queen Serenity does just vaguely mention that Moon People have "longevity." I think it's only Crystal Tokyo people who are said to live for around 1000 years. Given that, for instance, Lead Crow has existed since the Silver Millennium was still thriving, she must be thousands (perhaps even millions) of years old. This would be the case, too, for other characters like Pluto and Helios. So if such extreme lifespans are so unexceptional throughout the galaxy, for Queen Serenity to talk about Moon People longevity suggests their lifespan is even greater. So maybe she really is super-ultra-mega-ancient.
 
Likes: Seira Hazuki
Jul 6, 2018
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#40
Thinking about this some more... Queen Serenity does just vaguely mention that Moon People have "longevity." I think it's only Crystal Tokyo people who are said to live for around 1000 years. Given that, for instance, Lead Crow has existed since the Silver Millennium was still thriving, she must be thousands (perhaps even millions) of years old. This would be the case, too, for other characters like Pluto and Helios. So if such extreme lifespans are so unexceptional throughout the galaxy, for Queen Serenity to talk about Moon People longevity suggests their lifespan is even greater. So maybe she really is super-ultra-mega-ancient.
It was so silly of Naoko to not bevague when it comes to Crystal Tokyo. That means not only that during the Silver Millenium all the guardians are 100 years away from dying, but with thepace Chibi Usa grows being 900 already, she willl die before reaching maturity. But now that I think of it, 1000 years of livemight for the humans, while the Moon descendents might be different. Which opens another issue - Mamoru is almost a goner. :D