Question about Jupiter and Uranus in that episode in S

  • This site uses cookies. By continuing to use this site, you are agreeing to our use of cookies. Learn more.

Lord Mala

Lapis Lunaris
Apr 17, 2007
1,641
5
5
31
#1
So in the one before that, in the love contest, we saw Minako and Rei cheering on Michiru and Haruka, who are a lesbian couple. However, after that episode, where Makato becomes the victim. Usagi is acting all throughout the episode that it is weird for Makato to be liking Haruka and some of the other inner senshi had similar reactions to. What's all up with that?
 
Sep 6, 2014
1,107
182
165
#2
“It’s okay if these girls we kind of look up to and admire because of how sophisticated and cool are gay with each other but we don’t want our friend in our social circle to be gay”
 

Lord Mala

Lapis Lunaris
Apr 17, 2007
1,641
5
5
31
#3
They eventually become part of their circle of friends later on.
 
Jul 6, 2018
145
65
65
27
#4
They were more concrned because Makoto has always been obsessed with guys and her sempai. Also they know she is sensitive when it comes to turn downs, so they don't want her to be disappointed - Haruka is with Michiru etc. I don't see the episode as homophobic, They were more concerned with her feelings not being hurt.
 
Last edited:

John

Luna Crescens
Dec 20, 2011
1,098
148
165
28
New York
#5
Here in the West, we have conflated accepting homosexuality with completely supporting and sometimes encouraging it.

In many Asian countries, even in more progressive cities, it is common to experience a general acceptance of the notion of homosexuality while still holding onto ideas that "it's better to be heterosexual" -- this isn't the same exact thing as homophobia; or, if you feel this is an example of homophobia, then certainly it's of a different type than the homophobia experienced by people in Russia and some parts of the United States, for example.

Makoto's friends aren't condemning homosexuality. They clearly look up to and admire Haruka and Michiru. But having a close friend that they've known for a while suddenly showing what might be construed as gay or bisexual tendencies might be too much for their 90s Japanese sense of up-and-down. If that makes any sense.
 
Jul 6, 2018
145
65
65
27
#6
I watched the episode to refresh my memory and I really saw them being smply surprised because Minako has always been boy crazy, not unaccepting their friend being homo. Then I decided to check the old dub to see how they hendled that episode - it was so cringy. The only time I found Sailor Moon being kind a offensive to homosexuals was in R Movie when the girls were talking about it and Minako started laughing about some boys in her school being a couple. Even that was pretty innocent compared to most blunt homophobic tuff in the 90s
 
Last edited:
Likes: Lord Mala
Nov 22, 2016
311
87
65
#7
I watched the episode to refresh my memory and I really saw them being smply surprised because Minako has always been boy crazy, not unaccepting their friend being homo. Then I decided to check the old dub to see how they hendled that episode - it was so cringy. The only time I found Sailor Moon being kind a offensive to homosexuals was in R Movie when the girls were talking about it and Minako started laughing about some boys in her school being a couple. Even that was pretty innocent compared to most blunt homophobic tuff in the 90s
How did they handle? They didn't accept their friend wanting to be cousins with Haruka?
 
Likes: Lord Mala
Jul 6, 2018
145
65
65
27
#9
You watch Usagi blushing, Makoto looking at Haruka with stars in her eyes and suddenly... Serena - Lita, are you planning on replacing me with Haruka as a best friend... Just lol.
 
Likes: Lord Mala

John

Luna Crescens
Dec 20, 2011
1,098
148
165
28
New York
#11
Toonami’s homophobic policies wouldnt have allowed them to get away with it
To be fair, I don't think Toonami ever had any homophobic policies of any sort. In the first place, Toonami didn't dub Sailor Moon. That was simply the name of the programming block where Sailor Moon aired. Secondly, the idea of having gay-friendly elements in kids' television here in the West is relatively new and goes back to old network things. Basically, back in the day (let's say the 60s), if parents did not approve of what was being shown on TV, they could call the broadcasting company (not the channel but an ENTIRE network of broadcasting corporations) and complain that it's "not appropriate" and the networks would dictate this to their channels.

At least that's how I understand how things were.

I believe they may have set up a "code" of some sort, or a set of policies, and different networks have had different policies over the years, but it mostly came down to getting away with things that wouldn't result in parents calling in droves and getting the shows canceled.

It has less to do with Toonami/Cartoon Network as a channel and more to do with this history.

I highly doubt anyone working on Toonami really thought that it was bad to have gay people on kids' TV shows. But I don't doubt for a second that the people making Sailor Moon thought that if they were open about this, their show would have been canceled promptly. Historically, showing gay characters positively and openly in something aimed at kids would have been a way for them to commit career suicide.

Thankfully we live in better times nowadays, but I just really don't like the simplistic "oh, they had homophobic policies" notion of rewriting history. It's way deeper than that.
 
Sep 6, 2014
1,107
182
165
#12
To be fair, I don't think Toonami ever had any homophobic policies of any sort. In the first place, Toonami didn't dub Sailor Moon. That was simply the name of the programming block where Sailor Moon aired. Secondly, the idea of having gay-friendly elements in kids' television here in the West is relatively new and goes back to old network things. Basically, back in the day (let's say the 60s), if parents did not approve of what was being shown on TV, they could call the broadcasting company (not the channel but an ENTIRE network of broadcasting corporations) and complain that it's "not appropriate" and the networks would dictate this to their channels.

At least that's how I understand how things were.

I believe they may have set up a "code" of some sort, or a set of policies, and different networks have had different policies over the years, but it mostly came down to getting away with things that wouldn't result in parents calling in droves and getting the shows canceled.

It has less to do with Toonami/Cartoon Network as a channel and more to do with this history.

I highly doubt anyone working on Toonami really thought that it was bad to have gay people on kids' TV shows. But I don't doubt for a second that the people making Sailor Moon thought that if they were open about this, their show would have been canceled promptly. Historically, showing gay characters positively and openly in something aimed at kids would have been a way for them to commit career suicide.

Thankfully we live in better times nowadays, but I just really don't like the simplistic "oh, they had homophobic policies" notion of rewriting history. It's way deeper than that.
From an interview with a Toonami producer:
The Edit List - * Edit List Special - Cartoon Network Interview


7. Outlaw Star featured a gay character in a prominent role. While Fred Luo was toned down it was still apparent that he was gay. What is CN's editing policy on gay characters?

There is not a specific editing policy on gay characters. Overt sexuality or implied sexuality of any kind are not allowed.

No overt sexuality or implied sexuality being allowed is of course irrelevant to Serena crushing or being hot on Darien or how the guy ogling the girls do or Ryoko sexually harassing Tenchi being okay. It only
implies to gay character. Because gay characters are inherently sexual and heterosexuality is pure.


Of course Toonami isn’t the only programming block to do this. I remember a Disney Channel rep once saying they don’t do sexuality on Disney Channel in spite of the fact you would be hard pressed to find a show that didn’t feature heterosexual crushes or romance.
 

John

Luna Crescens
Dec 20, 2011
1,098
148
165
28
New York
#13
Yes Lemons but what I'm saying is that such a policy about overt sexuality and how it disproportionately affects gay characters comes from a history of homophobia expressed in the entire Western world and the network (and, by trickling down, the producers of the show) *reacting* to that by thinking, "We don't want this show we're dubbing to be canceled by accidentally violating Cartoon Network's policy because if a homophobic parent calls in then we're screwed."

It doesn't sound like CN ever said "You can't keep Uranus and Neptune gay."

It sounds more like the Cloverway dubbers thought, "We can't keep them gay in this show because it's gonna air on a popular kids network in the USA and having open gay characters might be interpreted as violating their policy."

I'm not saying it's logical or even a good thing, but what I'm saying is that it comes from a place of not understanding how a gay character would be perceived.

These people (homophobic parents who might have called in to complain) were the ones thinking that gay couples are purely sexual with nothing to do with "love" -- and that's not homophobia, that's just being misinformed or uneducated.
 
Last edited:
Likes: Lord Mala
Jul 6, 2018
145
65
65
27
#14
There are way more homophobic stuff related to Sailor Moon - like the Italian psychologist that claimed Sailor Moon will turn your kids gay...
 
Last edited:
Likes: Lord Mala
Jul 6, 2018
145
65
65
27
#16
Who are these people? :wave:
Good you don't know... I wish I didn't as well, unfortunately my first manga read was Tokyo Pop edition, where only Usagi is Bunny nstead of Serena. Bunny was sorta international choic, renaming Usagi in most languages that way. The English names are very strange choices, like Amara being Haruka - they could have at least name her Hanna or something, saving the first letter - Michiru was Michelle which at least was close enough.
 
Likes: Lord Mala