REAl Crystal bashers go way too far

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Aug 16, 2014
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#21
I have been called a Crystal basher by people on occasion. If being a basher means to criticize a work of art that you care for and point out flaws then I guess I am guilty. But with the recent news about Toei coproducing the show I have seen some actual bashing in oter sites and just couldn't stop myself. People that know absolutely nothing on anike industry talk like experts on how poor Crystal performed in Japan.

1) Myth - Crystal 1 and 2 sold badly, say bashers. For anime to be considered a success when it comes to selling, it should go over 1000 units sold in the forst two weeks of release. Crystal 1 and 2 started woth about 3000, and the last volume still sold about 1200 units in its first week. This is good, considerig the fact that most shows sell 100-300 units, especially in the shoujo genre. Yes there are some smashing shouen hits that sell much better, but Crystal 1 and 2 passed the bar for a selling product.

2) Myth 2 Season 3 had poor ratings in Japan, so Toei couldn't secure tie slot and opted for a movie (or a friend of a friend of a friend of a friend which sister'husband 10th cousin live i Japan tod me)
Well, this is beyod speculation. It is true that season 3 didn't sell as well as s1 and 2, with 500-300 units in te forst week. These are not poor sells lreally, they are normal anime sell numbers in Japan. Unlike in the USA where ratings are disclosed to public, Japan never show this data, so nobody's 50th cousin that lives in Japan could know the ratings for the show. I guess the asuptions of low ratings coes for sells. Let's get Chihaya Furu an anime that despite selling like under 100 units is still being produced, spannig multiple seasons. Sells don't really correspond with ratings as shows like Pretty Cure that are among the most watched stuff on TV sell little to no when it comes to dvd and blu ray.
3 while not a myth this really frustrates me. People are gloating that Naoko is supervisig the project only because they hope it fails so they can finally bash on her. I cannot believe somebody could hate the creator of a product they say they love.
Thank you ,I can never understand how people think the first two seasons were failures or season 3 was terrible . The truth is they would not be continueing Crystal if it was a failure .
 
#22
Yeah, I can't see Crystal being an outright failure commercially. I think the failure is personal. Some people had personal expectations for Crystal that it did not reach and as a result, it is a failed product in their eyes.

From a business standpoint, the top players of Toei could care less about our feelings and more about profit. If Crystal did horrible, they would have axed it completely and instead of getting a movie, we would have gotten some generic OVAs or whatever they do.

I mean to be honest, what failure of a show gets a movie adaptation and not just one but two of them
Part 1 & Part 2.

If I'm not mistaken, don't movies also typically receive higher budgets & a little better care in some scenes?

Also, since Deen has it in their hands as a coproduction, at least we can see that they are taking the initiative to do something with it. While I read that Deen has been iffy in the past with their animation work, I also noticed they have done quite a few dark titles and then on top of that, the writer for our movie has dabbled with JoJo Bizarre anime. I'm not too sure what to actually expect from this movie now but with Kon returning, and it not being restricted by TV censorships, all the indicators are pointing that this may be the darkest Sailor Moon adaptation we've gotten so far.

I don't know about animation wise but I'm more curious about the story and the route they take

As we all know, Classic, R and S were changed from their manga counterparts but still bore some key similarities. SuperS on the other hand has never been adapted properly and the anime version of it in the 90s was a far cry from the source.

I think the movie thing is also another way to make money by having the full version and having them in episodes if they decide to chop it up and distribute it to other countries however they do that.

From my own personal views. I don't hate Crystal. Some of it is pretty sloppy and has errors but even Dragon Ball and One Piece had some crappy moments and they are some of the highest grossing properties I assume.

Some of the things in Crystal I was meh on but some of them I did like from all Seasons.

Real time attacks here and there, a few more risque scenes (such as Koan burning nuns in Season 2), even though the inners did get thrown around like body bags, they did have their moments. It was always exciting to watch Venus run up a wall and Dodge Kunzite's attack.

I also liked the final battles when the Senshi fired their powers together to take out the enemy so it didn't look like Sailor Mary Sue all the time.

I just think the major backlash from come from more that one type of "hater"

Some people will condemn an entire project if they find one thing they don't like while some can find what made the show unique and build off that.

Then you have the other type. Ones that don't know anything about the show and just want to stir up confusion in the fandom.

Either way, Naoko is still driving away in her Porshce with shades like Nephrite or Haruka into the sunset.

I hope they decide to make a Crystal video game or something later too.
 
Feb 21, 2010
292
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Moon Palace
#23
Yeah, I can't see Crystal being an outright failure commercially. I think the failure is personal. Some people had personal expectations for Crystal that it did not reach and as a result, it is a failed product in their eyes.

From a business standpoint, the top players of Toei could care less about our feelings and more about profit. If Crystal did horrible, they would have axed it completely and instead of getting a movie, we would have gotten some generic OVAs or whatever they do.

I mean to be honest, what failure of a show gets a movie adaptation and not just one but two of them
Part 1 & Part 2.

If I'm not mistaken, don't movies also typically receive higher budgets & a little better care in some scenes?

Also, since Deen has it in their hands as a coproduction, at least we can see that they are taking the initiative to do something with it. While I read that Deen has been iffy in the past with their animation work, I also noticed they have done quite a few dark titles and then on top of that, the writer for our movie has dabbled with JoJo Bizarre anime. I'm not too sure what to actually expect from this movie now but with Kon returning, and it not being restricted by TV censorships, all the indicators are pointing that this may be the darkest Sailor Moon adaptation we've gotten so far.

I don't know about animation wise but I'm more curious about the story and the route they take

As we all know, Classic, R and S were changed from their manga counterparts but still bore some key similarities. SuperS on the other hand has never been adapted properly and the anime version of it in the 90s was a far cry from the source.

I think the movie thing is also another way to make money by having the full version and having them in episodes if they decide to chop it up and distribute it to other countries however they do that.

From my own personal views. I don't hate Crystal. Some of it is pretty sloppy and has errors but even Dragon Ball and One Piece had some crappy moments and they are some of the highest grossing properties I assume.

Some of the things in Crystal I was meh on but some of them I did like from all Seasons.

Real time attacks here and there, a few more risque scenes (such as Koan burning nuns in Season 2), even though the inners did get thrown around like body bags, they did have their moments. It was always exciting to watch Venus run up a wall and Dodge Kunzite's attack.

I also liked the final battles when the Senshi fired their powers together to take out the enemy so it didn't look like Sailor Mary Sue all the time.

I just think the major backlash from come from more that one type of "hater"

Some people will condemn an entire project if they find one thing they don't like while some can find what made the show unique and build off that.

Then you have the other type. Ones that don't know anything about the show and just want to stir up confusion in the fandom.

Either way, Naoko is still driving away in her Porshce with shades like Nephrite or Haruka into the sunset.

I hope they decide to make a Crystal video game or something later too.
ICONIC REPLY :bow: Anyone thinking Crystal is a "Commercial Failure" is just not thinking clearly. What you said about the Movies is spot on. And, there's another cute new Sailor Moon Crystal Pop Up Store that recently opened up too.
 

Neo King Rose

Usagi's Rose
Staff member
Site Admin
Sep 13, 2008
20,694
329
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in my aesthetic
#25
well you don't expect a basher of anything let alone crystal to play nice do ya? this is the web people show their nasty side more often than not in general

best advice I can give anyone is develop thick skin don't let anyone's views ruin what you like

"you don't like it?, not my problem" -Neo King Rose 2019
 

Kon

Lapis Lunaris
Jan 10, 2014
239
5
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#26
The manga was not more popular than the anime in Japan. They both were popular and te anime was of course more accessible to younger audence and was a commercial success. Then SuperS happened and ratigs dropped. Toei ended te arc abruptly, started Stars ad canged most of te staff. Despite that the raitigs didnt raise much. The manga, however never suffered drop in readership and was cosistently popular with each arc.
The issue with manga is more complicated.

If a manga has a pretty popular anime, this will help the sales of the manga (even when the popularity of anime start to decline). Manga and anime of Sailor Moon ended at similar time, so we never know how the popularity of the manga would be after the end of the anime.

For example: The manga Saint Seiya has a popular anime. The popularity of the anime started to decline after "12 Houses" arc, but the manga mantained stable popularity. However, when the anime ended, the popularity of the manga fall a lot.


Regarding SuperS, it last from 128 to 166, S last from 90 to 127. So, SuperS wasn't ended abruptly.

I'm not so sure the decline of popularity started on SuperS. I mean, you can notice the changed of tone between S and SuperS, so it's likely they want (need) to attract new younger audience for SuperS.
 
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Jul 6, 2018
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#27
The issue with manga is more complicated.

If a manga has a pretty popular anime, this will help the sales of the manga (even when the popularity of anime start to decline). Manga and anime of Sailor Moon ended at similar time, so we never know how the popularity of the manga would be after the end of the anime.

For example: The manga Saint Seiya has a popular anime. The popularity of the anime started to decline after "12 Houses" arc, but the manga mantained stable popularity. However, when the anime ended, the popularity of the manga fall a lot.


Regarding SuperS, it last from 128 to 166, S last from 90 to 127. So, SuperS wasn't ended abruptly.

I'm not so sure the decline of popularity started on SuperS. I mean, you can notice the changed of tone between S and SuperS, so it's likely they want (need) to attract new young audiencr for SuperS.
Well, consider8ng the abrupt ending and the major change of staff after Supers are telling. But the two were releasedpretty concurrently, so you are right that it is hard to tell. For me anime is almost always more popular though. Eslecially in the Sailor Moon target age.
 
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JunoDX

Luna Crescens
Nov 8, 2018
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#29
Crystal may be a commercial success, but its quality is in all aspects below the original anime and therefore below expectations. it is what it is, a low budget product, especially season 1+2. but i’m glad we got more from the franchise and it was nice to wait each week for the next episode.
 
Jul 6, 2018
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#30
Crystal may be a commercial success, but its quality is in all aspects below the original anime and therefore below expectations. it is what it is, a low budget product, especially season 1+2. but i’m glad we got more from the franchise and it was nice to wait each week for the next episode.
Nobody, especially me denies the lack of quality. Just people on other outlests are spreading claims of it being such a failure they couldn't secure tv spot for more. As if movies work this way. And why season 1 and 2 were a mess production wise, art wise they kept the essence of the manga vision. Not adapting the story, but the look and atmosphere. Thisvis personal opinion.
 
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Rika-Chicchi

Staff member
Site Admin
May 7, 2009
37,142
738
665
#31
Crystal may be a commercial success, but its quality is in all aspects below the original anime and therefore below expectations. it is what it is, a low budget product, especially season 1+2. but i’m glad we got more from the franchise and it was nice to wait each week for the next episode.
It was every two or even three weeks, actually, & after such a long wait, we still got another episode of such quality. *sigh*
 

rgveda99

Lumen Cinereum
Jul 5, 2009
8,045
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Philippines
#32
It was every two or even three weeks, actually, & after such a long wait, we still got another episode of such quality. *sigh*
More reason for TOEI to produce (or under produce) a reboot series/movie of a remake of the manga again and again and again for the 40th, 50th and 60th anniversary of :usagi:. :googly: #There'smoreroomforimprovementevenifbylittle
 

Rika-Chicchi

Staff member
Site Admin
May 7, 2009
37,142
738
665
#33
More reason for TOEI to produce (or under produce) a reboot series/movie of a remake of the manga again and again and again for the 40th, 50th and 60th anniversary of :usagi:. :googly: #There'smoreroomforimprovementevenifbylittle
For eternal eternity, amen.
 
May 18, 2016
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#34
Crystal may be a commercial success, but its quality is in all aspects below the original anime and therefore below expectations. it is what it is, a low budget product, especially season 1+2. but i’m glad we got more from the franchise and it was nice to wait each week for the next episode.
Agreed, that is one good thing, it brought Sailor Moon into relevance again, sadly, when it got released, I feel the fandom took a turn for the worst...
 

GalX3

Luna Nova
Nov 13, 2018
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#35
I've been reading Sailor V and passed it to a German friend who was curious about what it was I was reading. Her comments were "She is very pretty but I have no idea what is happening because I cannot read Japanese and every page just appears to be her is a different pose, and why is she naked on this page?". So Maybe we do need for forgive a little and confess that the source material may not be the holy grail of excellence in regards to translating to anime. (How much hovering Senshi do you want? Yes)

I do like Crystal (particularly Season 3) but only as a derivative/supplemental work and not as a full representation of what Sailor Moon is in its own right. I saw the anime movie "Weathering with You" at the cinema and was blown away by the detail and beauty of the environments and it made me think just how rushed/sub-par Crystal was in comparison (not that it doesn't have some awesome moments but they are few and far between). Also Crystal is great for casual 90's fans who may not have read the manga and I think they will be in for a surprise when Stars is released (could it be that Eternal Sailor Moon is not the ultimate form of Sailor Moon?? OMG!), it would have really messed with their heads if Crystal Stars was released before the 90's dub of Stars.

But make no mistake, if Crystal was the only anime of Sailor Moon and the 90's anime version did not exist I would definitely have moved on long ago. It doesn't even hold a candle to the flame of passion I have for these heroes. So Crystal, that is why, in the name of the Moon, I will continue to punish you! But do keep up the good work on your improvements and I am really looking forward to seeing your movies.

Also, I don't actually care that they drew a few frames of Usako looking like a triangle with eyes added by a pin the tail on the donkey game and I never link or (usually) refer to it in my criticisms because it is just the poster-child for "Look! See! Crystal is Bad!". The real failure of crystal (which they have been improving upon very slowly) is the soulless nature with which the characters are presented and the general rigidity of animation which has led to it being called the "Sailor Moon Powerpoint Presentation". When I watch Crystal I feel like I am watching a bed-time story book retelling of what Sailor Moon did, I love a good story, but the real thing is much more engaging.
 
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May 18, 2016
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#37
Just like with every other fandom when something new comes in after so many years no matter if it's a reboot, sequel or spinoff.
Haven't seen that happen with the Saintia Sho anime though (a lot of Saint Seiya there are united in that the anime was bad whilst the manga was excellent)...it's still a mixed bag among the Sailor Moon fandom with it being split.
 
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#38
As Sailor Moon fans we have so much going for us. Musicals, Live Action, merchandise. I haven't ran across too many nasty Sailor Moon fans but I have seen a few online and they are usually guys who are aggressive about the property.

I know I saw one online who was dropping F-bombs on others and critizing them because they liked the DIC version.

Usually with girls, they are shocked I know so much about Sailor Moon...I keep my levels of damage on low unless but when the topic comes up I can dish it out definitely.

I just like Sailor Moon for Sailor Moon and accept it in what form it comes in, have my favorite of the bunch but not hating them all.

But as someone said, every fandom seems to have those...ummmm crazy folkz who take things way to far. Those are the people you ignore. Focus on those of like mind and talk about Sailor Moon from there.

Thankfully, I like almost all forms of Sailor Moon... That American live action remake is questionable but still at least I know SM was hot stuff to be so mainstream.
 

Verona

Lapis Lunaris
Nov 7, 2019
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#39
I didn't enjoy Crystal. And I knock it when it comes up. I don't like it due to quality, pacing in the episode and distribution of the episode. I'm a pretty die hard fan of Sailor Moon too. I kept giving Crystal chances but after so many chances, and the wand twirl- I just couldn't. I even completely stopped watching it. This is someone who generally finishes a series regardless how awful it may be, lol. I don't knock others for enjoying it but I will definitely duck out of a rewatch.