Rebuttal on Nostalgia Critic's Shitty Review of the Show

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blondibear_17

Luna Crescens
Mar 3, 2017
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#21
The Nostalgia Critic is playing a character.

For his reviews, he is putting up a persona, a persona that is intentionally problematic and somewhat exaggerated. This character can be less than ideal, but that's part of the point.

There was a humor in it...for his audience and people who remember Sailor Moon as this nebulous thing and want to laugh at it. Why is it a problem for people to laugh at the correct version of show? It's a cheesy kids show that is terribly written, inconsistently animated, and formulaic. For many people, the only draw was the pretty girls who got naked and transformed into what are perceived as skimpy outfits.

And I don't see where his review was racist. Upon re-watching his actual review, he even praised the opening for being catchy.
Like I said even as a former fan it's just not a good review even for him in my opinion I don't recall this much outright misinformation or misogyny and laziness in other videos of his maybe it's more noticeable since he mostly reviews movies and stuff that is geared more towards boys and a general audience but I think it's just common sense that people put out a better product when they stick to making stuff they know. Theres a reason why Nostalgia Chick didn't do a review of this even though people always asked her and it's because she didn't know the show.
 

MementoNepenthe

Aurorae Lunares
Mar 8, 2012
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#22
As pointed out in this and many other videos, there really is no distinction between Doug Walker and the Nostalgia Critic. The jokes and comments he makes "in character" are demonstrably the same as those he makes "out of character."
 
Jun 30, 2010
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www.smcx.me
#23
All right, since we heavily disagree as to whether the original video is awful, I'll concede for the sake of discussion it is problematic, because whether the sexism is intentionally done for humor as a critique or a byproduct of nerd culture, it is still sexist.

But if we acknowledge the original review is a problem, why does this reviewer then tiptoe around the actual criticism to instead focus on Doug?

For instance, this video criticizes the whole idea of Star Wars not being for girls and that there's nothing exclusive about Star Wars or funny about inserting girly voices into material.

Why not instead, use that as an opportunity to say that because Star Wars speaks to a general audience, then adding the scroll text is a benefit since it contextualizes and enhances the show for a general audience? Given that the fandom has also made this very same complaint about the scroll text, then it would be easy to decry the Nostalgia Critic for endorsing and spreading the very misogynistic complaint to turn people against the DiC dub. Why not just say, this is an improvement and to decry the insertion of this text is sexist? If you're gong to criticize the misogynistic dub bashing, then acknowledge that dub bashing in of itself is largely misogynistic.

But nobody wants to actually tackle the argument. This person just wants to attack the Nostalgia Critic because he's not one of us. It's fighting exclusionism with more exclusionism.
 
May 18, 2016
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#24
Nadia, I think maybe you should read this: Not So Awesome

Then you'll see why I, a former Nostalgia Critic/Doug Walker fan, have hated him for a year, and also look up about what people found out about JewWario recently, and you'll get a way better understanding. If you can't handle it, then just leave this thread. And why the hell are you even here on this website if you say that Sailor Moon is "a cheesy kids show that is terribly written, inconsistently animated, and formulaic" (which while the animation does have consistency problems, it's still good, if not great, most of the time, the show, while it does have a formula, changes it around so no two episodes are the same and the writing, did you only see the DiC dub)?? If you say that, why are you on a website dedicated to the show? Are you one of Doug's rabid fanboys who followed me here to try to prove me wrong when there's plenty of evidence?

And no, not all people like the show because of "the pretty girls who got naked and transformed into what are perceived as skimpy outfits", if I wanted to do that, I'd watch Kekko Kamen, Shin Cutey Honey, Agent Aika or even Butt Attack Punisher Girl Gautaman.

And the DiC version being the correct version of the show?

 
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MementoNepenthe

Aurorae Lunares
Mar 8, 2012
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#25
For instance, this video criticizes the whole idea of Star Wars not being for girls and that there's nothing exclusive about Star Wars or funny about inserting girly voices into material.

Why not instead, use that as an opportunity to say that because Star Wars speaks to a general audience, then adding the scroll text is a benefit since it contextualizes and enhances the show for a general audience? Given that the fandom has also made this very same complaint about the scroll text, then it would be easy to decry the Nostalgia Critic for endorsing and spreading the very misogynistic complaint to turn people against the DiC dub. Why not just say, this is an improvement and to decry the insertion of this text is sexist? If you're gong to criticize the misogynistic dub bashing, then acknowledge that dub bashing in of itself is largely misogynistic.
You know I enjoy your posts around here, and I've tried to follow what you're saying in this thread, but I have no clue what you're on about here?

The reviewer is criticizing Doug and simply using his Sailor Moon review as an example of what makes Doug so awful; it's a springboard for the discussion the reviewer is trying to have. They're not interested in doing their own review of Sailor Moon, so they don't need to formulate a rebuttal for every thing Doug said.

The scrolling text DIC added to the opening was obviously a nod to Star Wars, but its addition was hardly a benefit. In no way did it enhance or contextualize the show, especially since Sailor Moon and Star Wars share nothing in common beyond both vaguely featuring space themed imagery. Star Wars allusions probably would have made more sense in the Toon Makers version of Sailor Moon, but for DIC's adaptation of the anime, it's just superfluous. (Harmless and not particularly meriting criticism, but still superfluous. To say it was an improvement is a massive stretch.)

I know many fans have complained about the scroll text for being cheesy and an unneeded alteration of the original series, but I've never seen anyone complain about it for misogynistic, "girls don't even like Star Wars" reasons. Not to say that's never happened, but as I've never witnessed it despite being pretty active in the fandom for nearing twenty years now, I'd say it's not nearly so common as you seem to think it is? (And, again, the reviewer is simply interested in critiquing Doug, and has no need to delve into fandom squabbles or defend the dub to do so.)

I really don't see how dub bashing is in and of itself largely misogynistic. You've clearly had a different experience than I have, but I still fail to see how that's the case. If anything, dub bashing is largely the result of purists who lack enough critical thinking skills and self-awareness to realize that most of their complaints about the dub apply to the original anime and manga.
 
Sep 6, 2014
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#26
All right, since we heavily disagree as to whether the original video is awful, I'll concede for the sake of discussion it is problematic, because whether the sexism is intentionally done for humor as a critique or a byproduct of nerd culture, it is still sexist.
Off-color humor is not in and of itself a bad thing. If Doug was deliberately playing a sexist douchebag that would be okay. But he’s using sincere criticism dressed up with humor. We’re expected to agree with him or at least see his point that Sailor Moon is dressed inappropriately.

Again though this is hardly any different than the horde of Moonies who go nuts over “panty shots”

why does this reviewer then tiptoe around the actual criticism to instead focus on Doug?
I should note I have no interest in watching a 50 minute long video that I am sure is boring as sin.

Why not instead, use that as an opportunity to say that because Star Wars speaks to a general audience, then adding the scroll text is a benefit since it contextualizes and enhances the show for a general audience? Given that the fandom has also made this very same complaint about the scroll text, then it would be easy to decry the Nostalgia Critic for endorsing and spreading the very misogynistic complaint to turn people against the DiC dub. Why not just say, this is an improvement and to decry the insertion of this text is sexist?
Because it’s not an improvement. I have zero issues with it existing but it’s just there. A purist whining that the English Adaptation in any changed their precious animu is a completely different ball game than some sexist asshole stating girls don’t watch Star Wars.

Purist- The Star Wars text scroll is dumb because it wasn’t in the original show

Nostalgia Critic- Ha the Star Wars text scroll is dumb because girls don’t even watch Star
Wars.

If you're gong to criticize the misogynistic dub bashing, then acknowledge that dub bashing in of itself is largely misogynistic.
How would you say dub bashing is in of itself misogynistic? Generally speaking, most of the dub bashing comes from a place of people thinking a campy Japanese cartoon is a lot more deep and mature than it actually is.

I think certain aspects of dub bashing can border on misogyny for sure. Raye getting hate on despite being no worse to Serena than Darien (and a lot better at times) comes to mind.

because he's not one of us. It's fighting exclusionism with more exclusionism.
Again, sexism and misogyny is hardly unique to Doug and is extremely prevalent to the fandom.

I don’t think Doug’s misogynistic criticism is any worse than say SMU calling Michelle a slut because she *gasp* had two boyfriends one who was an ex from years back and the other implied to be a current suitor and she’s 16.

They’re both awful.

And the irony of people complaining about Doug basing his opinions on the dub while most of his criticism applies to both versions is in no way lost on me.
 
May 18, 2016
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#27
Off-color humor is not in and of itself a bad thing. If Doug was deliberately playing a sexist douchebag that would be okay. But he’s using sincere criticism dressed up with humor. We’re expected to agree with him or at least see his point that Sailor Moon is dressed inappropriately.

Again though this is hardly any different than the horde of Moonies who go nuts over “panty shots”



I should note I have no interest in watching a 50 minute long video that I am sure is boring as sin.



Because it’s not an improvement. I have zero issues with it existing but it’s just there. A purist whining that the English Adaptation in any changed their precious animu is a completely different ball game than some sexist asshole stating girls don’t watch Star Wars.

Purist- The Star Wars text scroll is dumb because it wasn’t in the original show

Nostalgia Critic- Ha the Star Wars text scroll is dumb because girls don’t even watch Star
Wars.



How would you say dub bashing is in of itself misogynistic? Generally speaking, most of the dub bashing comes from a place of people thinking a campy Japanese cartoon is a lot more deep and mature than it actually is.

I think certain aspects of dub bashing can border on misogyny for sure. Raye getting hate on despite being no worse to Serena than Darien (and a lot better at times) comes to mind.



Again, sexism and misogyny is hardly unique to Doug and is extremely prevalent to the fandom.

I don’t think Doug’s misogynistic criticism is any worse than say SMU calling Michelle a slut because she *gasp* had two boyfriends one who was an ex from years back and the other implied to be a current suitor and she’s 16.

They’re both awful.

And the irony of people complaining about Doug basing his opinions on the dub while most of his criticism applies to both versions is in no way lost on me.
SMU doesn't even know what the term "slut" even means, Tiff when replying to some shitty essay about "sexism and character development in SailorMoon" where she and some other woman came off like they didn't even pay attention to the show, she even had the gall to call Makoto and Minako that. :x Then again, I don't agree with them on a lot of the stuff they say.

Their essay was just as bad as Doug's review.
 
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May 18, 2016
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#28
And a lot of Doug's fanboys are just as shitty/rabid. One idiotic defender fanboy even, besides assuming I was a girl/woman and using the shitty "they're jokes!!" excuse told me "change your tampons and suck it up", like I'm being indoctrinated to worship some evil leader or something (and that's definitely something nice to say to someone you think is a woman IRL, if I said that to a lady in real life she'd slap me upside the head). At this point Doug could go on a murder spree and end up in prison for life with no parole like that "Mr. Anime" guy and his sheep would still think he's one of the best people to ever exist! :evil:
 
Jun 30, 2010
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#29
Nadia, I think maybe you should read this: Not So Awesome
I'm not reading it, because I'm not a fan of him...at all. I don't need to read that to know he's scum. Anyone with a following is scum, and the bigger the name, the bigger the scum.

But even scum can be right, which is why it's important to never dismiss people.

If you can't handle it, then just leave this thread.
What is there to handle? I have an opinion and you have an opinion. That you tell someone to leave a thread and start personally attacking and mocking shows you can't accept disagreement, which means you don't want discussion.

And why the hell are you even here on this website if you say that Sailor Moon is "a cheesy kids show that is terribly written, inconsistently animated, and formulaic" (which while the animation does have consistency problems, it's still good, if not great, most of the time, the show, while it does have a formula, changes it around so no two episodes are the same and the writing, did you only see the DiC dub)?? If you say that, why are you on a website dedicated to the show? Are you one of Doug's rabid fanboys who followed me here to try to prove me wrong when there's plenty of evidence?
I can like something that's flawed while acknowledging that it's flawed. I also genuinely like cheesy and campy things. Just like you can call out the dub, I can call out Sailor Moon.

And again, I don't care about the Nostalgia Critic, especially not enough to make a video and piggyback views off of. I just don't like piling on him because he's said the same junk that has been written on this very board repeatedly in defense of the original version. It's reviews like his which helped lead to your shiny new dub, so you should be happy about it. The only people who should take issue with the review are those who championed the old dub, and even I admit that the barbs he threw were nothing compared to the racist (people complained that the dub have Japanese characters "black names") and sexist things that are still accepted as justifications for the purity of the original version.

And no, not all people like the show because of "the pretty girls who got naked and transformed into what are perceived as skimpy outfits", if I wanted to do that, I'd watch Kekko Kamen, Shin Cutey Honey, Agent Aika or even Butt Attack Punisher Girl Gautaman.

Given how many people complain about "the dub" and now even Crystal (yes, Sailor Moon Crystal) "censoring" the show by erasing all the "adult" stuff that was in the original anime, I'd say that this is a driving and active portion of the fandom. I mean, this forum had a hentai section once ipon a time. People still want to believe Sailor Moon is for adults and that's why it shouldn't be kiddified and justify buying a kids show by saying it's for adults because Japan is so mature.

Which, funny, you acknowledge when Doug does it, but endorse it when other Moonies do it.

And the DiC version being the correct version of the show?

Then your criticism of Doug is pointless because every point in his review is the same dub-bashing that has gone on in the Sailor Moon fandom for years. The only difference is his is actually less vitriolic and toxic than most dub hate.

And it's not just the dudebros. There has been criticism among TumblrFeminists (who are often radical 3rd wave feminists) about DiC trying to tone down the gender role stereotypes and market the series to a wider audience. In their minds, Sailor Moon being explicitly beautiful and transforming into a traditionally feminine outfit using make up is strength, not sexism, as in their minds, the series is about being beautiful and fierce. They hate that lines we deemed problematic, about out hero needing to lose weight, were even softened in the Viz version because these alterations undercut the idea that traditional beauty is power. Things like making the opening more "actiony" and all the VFX were awful not just because they were additions or poorly done, but because they go against the feminist message of grace...even the Nostalgia Critic himself touches on the "Saved by the Bell" aesthetic of the frames.
 

AlveinHero

Lapis Lunaris
Jun 1, 2012
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#30
I watched a lot of bad reviews, and The Nostalgia Critic's Sailor Moon review is the worst.
 

Boro

Lapis Lunaris
May 19, 2012
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Mount Grimrock Level 4
#31
When the review came out, we didn't dogpile on it, although that might've been a different group in a more civilized age.

although the crotch-revolver was a little too cringe-worthy for me. That is the only criticism worth a merit, and it's purely a taste thing.