Should Usagi have forgiven Beryl in the 90's anime? Why didn't she?

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Jun 17, 2019
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#1
So we all know by now that in the 90's anime Usagi had a penchant for forgiving and redeeming the baddies, in fact I believe she pretty much forgave and redeemed every big "Human Boss" the one and only exception being Beryl. This always struck me as strange since with the 90's anime being big into the concept of redemption it would've been the perfect opportunity to incorporate manga!Beryl's backstory here to make her far more sympathetic yet Toei chose to forgo that why is that considering the pattern they established for every other human big bad after her?

In retrospect Beryl's crimes aren't even that much worse than any of the other villains of the series, certainly not on the same level as someone like say Galaxia and yet Usagi, all forgiving purest heart of the universe didn't even try with her? I always found this baffling.

So discuss. Do you believe Beryl deserved to be redeemed in the 90's anime or not?
 
Sep 6, 2014
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#2
So we all know by now that in the 90's anime Usagi had a penchant for forgiving and redeeming the baddies, in fact I believe she pretty much forgave and redeemed every big "Human Boss" the one and only exception being Beryl
Every villain Usagi forgive showed the capacity for redemption. Beryl did not. That is the obvious difference

. This always struck me as strange since with the 90's anime being big into the concept of redemption it would've been the perfect opportunity to incorporate manga!Beryl's backstory here to make her far more sympathetic yet Toei chose to forgo that why is that considering the pattern they established for every other human big bad after her?
Because the pattern was established after the first series. The trend of human esque villains redeeming themselves didn’t really start until R. The only Classic baddie that showed any capability for redemption died.

In retrospect Beryl's crimes aren't even that much worse than any of the other villains of the series
Entire genocide of the Moon people. But okay I guess it’s not that bad.

and yet Usagi, all forgiving purest heart of the universe didn't even try with her? I always found this baffling.
Why? Why is this baffling. Pretty much any villain that was redeemed showed they were capable of such.

So discuss. Do you believe Beryl deserved to be redeemed in the 90's anime or not?
Again no. Unlike any other villain that was redeem she never showed any signs of remorse for her action
 

MariaTenebre

Lumen Cinereum
Jul 22, 2009
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#3
Every villain Usagi forgive showed the capacity for redemption. Beryl did not. That is the obvious difference


Because the pattern was established after the first series. The trend of human esque villains redeeming themselves didn’t really start until R. The only Classic baddie that showed any capability for redemption died.


Entire genocide of the Moon people. But okay I guess it’s not that bad.



Why? Why is this baffling. Pretty much any villain that was redeemed showed they were capable of such.



Again no. Unlike any other villain that was redeem she never showed any signs of remorse for her action
Arguably what Nehellenia did was worse though she did a genocide of her own people. Yeah they lived on as Lemures but what life is that?
 
May 31, 2009
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#4
As a series progresses, it naturally evolves. Redeeming the big bad wasn't something planned from the beginning. While it would have been cool if a more detailed backstory for Beryl was established, the character worked fine regardless. Never showing her having a human form must have made it easier for them to simply kill her off. In any case, it was probably for the best. It made Beryl unique and the final battle between her and Usagi stand out. I do have a feeling they may have regretted this decision later on, otherwise they wouldn't have made a video game where Queen Beryl is redeemed. That ending is more in line with the way they handled villains post-season 1.
 
Jul 6, 2018
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#5
Usagi is still human, still bind by her past life. This woman ruined her home, her own happiness, her whole world. Usagi was personally affected in a way she never did with other villains. Berylnever showed remorse, she was evil and determined to ruin Serenity's happiness till the end. She never wanted a second chance and she was not redeemable. Neherenia was horribble killing her own people, but she did out of loneliness. For me she was not exactly redeemed and she endedup in her dream world but as a small child that might never feel lonely. She was still however trapped just not in the enernity of beauty and loneliness. She was damaged and broken by her people validate her whole existence and give it meanig limited to her beauty and made her feel unworthy without it. She was a tragic rendition of the Evil Queen in Snow White and just a revision of the fairy tale trope of beauty equals female power. She wasredeemable as she was just a victim of a time and people that linked her beauty as her only quality. Beryl was driven out of jealousy and greed, so there was no other parh for her. In a way she had a chance by being reincarnated in another time but she solely chose the same path.
 

JunoDX

Luna Crescens
Nov 8, 2018
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#6
Beryl is the evil queen and yes, they could or should have given her her backstory. I felt sorry for her when the Rose hits her and she starts cracking. This could have been the moment for her to get "healed" by Sailor Moon. But she also killed Endymion at the same time, so why would that be the moment for her to be forgiven? When Metallia possesses her, Beryl get's consumed by her and I don't see way back at that point.
 
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#7
Beryl is the evil queen and yes, they could or should have given her her backstory. I felt sorry for her when the Rose hits her and she starts cracking. This could have been the moment for her to get "healed" by Sailor Moon. But she also killed Endymion at the same time, so why would that be the moment for her to be forgiven? When Metallia possesses her, Beryl get's consumed by her and I don't see way back at that point.
But even though she cracked she never had that moment like in Crystal where she just revered her love, which was still pure. She was like "Your love for her kills me. If you have chosen me we would have ruled over all te realms". She doesnt have a moment you should pity her or justify her i some way. She does not say she loves him like in Crystal. She is beig jealous having why her not me, and then she says her own wish is to rule. She is jealous ad greedy. Not a moment of regret or some positive feeling. She is obsessed on killing Serenity and make her suffer through Endymion and her only wish was to rule. There is nothig noble about the 90s Beryl. The manga/crystal Beryl was at least hinted to be human and her sole dream was Endymion. But she has done too much pain to Serenity so she wasnot supposedto be redeemed. All 90s Beryl wanted was power.
 
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Sep 6, 2014
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#8
Something I’ve been thinking about

Princess Serenity did use Moon Healing Escalation again Beryl in the final battle. Maybe it at least purified her and allowed to go to the afterlife with evil and jealousy and hatred removed from her heart

The maiden that was turned into an underwater yokai was roughly analogous to Beryl’s backstory in the manga and that’s what happened to her.
 
Jun 30, 2010
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#9
So we all know by now that in the 90's anime Usagi had a penchant for forgiving and redeeming the baddies, in fact I believe she pretty much forgave and redeemed every big "Human Boss" the one and only exception being Beryl. This always struck me as strange since with the 90's anime being big into the concept of redemption it would've been the perfect opportunity to incorporate manga!Beryl's backstory here to make her far more sympathetic yet Toei chose to forgo that why is that considering the pattern they established for every other human big bad after her?
As mentioned by others, Sailor Moon was not "Forgive & Forget" in Classic. This was a heroine petty enough to suggest killing a monster of the day instead of healing her just so her human self wouldn't be with Venus' crush. Furthermore, Toei clearly had no intention of trying to make Beryl sympathetic at all and went in their own direction. They wanted a classic tale of good vs. evil. They got it.

If you believe Beryl could have been portrayed more sympathetically in the anime, that is one thing. There's nothing wrong for wishing for an adaptation in which she were shown in a more favorable light, and if one were to scrape the manga and other continuities (like her being a sage, her being engaged to Endymion, her unrealized love for Princess Serenity) for a comprehensive backstory, it's easy where you could make a Beryl who would at least deserve to be redeemed. As she is in the old anime, though, she deserved to die.

In a way she had a chance by being reincarnated in another time but she solely chose the same path.
To be fair, this is probably the only possibly pitiable point. Did Beryl really have a choice in this life?

Since we aren't shown her perspective in the anime, we don't know what her human life was like to the point where you could easily ignore that she had one.

The manga, though, clearly hints that she really didn't have much of a choice as we was supernaturally called to revive Metalia and become the queen of the Dark Kingdom. Just like the other characters, it was inevitable that she would awaken. Yet every single adaptation, including Crystal, downplays it or ignores this point altogether. It's weird that PGSM, for all of it pushing of reincarnation, never touches on the idea that Beryl had a human life. I guess it reserved that plot point for Shin/Kunzite.

Any pity, though, is tossed aside when you realize the human Beryl had been consumed by a past life long ago.
 

MementoNepenthe

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Mar 8, 2012
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#10
90s Anime Beryl is very much a one-dimensional, generic cartoon villain, with very little personality or internal life beyond "I'm evil and I want to take over the universe, maybe get a little action on the side from this prince dude." (Which is why Naz Edwards's performance in the DIC dub was perfect; it at least gave her some added campy flair.) It's not surprising that she wasn't redeemed. And, like Nadia said, Usagi is season one was NOT particularly forgiving.

That said: Beryl is one of the most compelling characters in this franchise IMO, and she deserves so much better. I want her backstory (both Silver Millennium era and her reincarnated, pre-Metallia life) to be properly explored. I want the tragedy of her character to be treated with the sympathy it deserves. I want her to be redeemed and get to have a happy ending as Setsuna's partner for once.
 

JunoDX

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Nov 8, 2018
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#11
But even though she cracked she never had that moment like in Crystal where she just revered her love, which was still pure. She was like "Your love for her kills me. If you have chosen me we would have ruled over all te realms". She doesnt have a moment you should pity her or justify her i some way. She does not say she loves him like in Crystal. She is beig jealous having why her not me, and then she says her own wish is to rule. She is jealous ad greedy. Not a moment of regret or some positive feeling. She is obsessed on killing Serenity and make her suffer through Endymion and her only wish was to rule. There is nothig noble about the 90s Beryl. The manga/crystal Beryl was at least hinted to be human and her sole dream was Endymion. But she has done too much pain to Serenity so she wasnot supposedto be redeemed. All 90s Beryl wanted was power.
She is a queen, a witch, a sorceress, tall, elegant, sexy and mysterious. A dying majestic creature, even if evil, like her, always causes in me pity and I feel sorry. She does have this little moment where she notices that the love between Endymion and Serenity is so strong it cracks her body. Love is a feeling that is not familiar to her and she finally gets an idea of it. So I do think there is this micro-moment she could have been redeemed.
 
Jul 6, 2018
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#12
She is a queen, a witch, a sorceress, tall, elegant, sexy and mysterious. A dying majestic creature, even if evil, like her, always causes in me pity and I feel sorry. She does have this little moment where she notices that the love between Endymion and Serenity is so strong it cracks her body. Love is a feeling that is not familiar to her and she finally gets an idea of it. So I do think there is this micro-moment she could have been redeemed.
All I saw at that moment was jelaousy and not realsation. She was ready to fuse with Metallia just to kill Serenity.
 

MariaTenebre

Lumen Cinereum
Jul 22, 2009
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#13
90s Anime Beryl is very much a one-dimensional, generic cartoon villain, with very little personality or internal life beyond "I'm evil and I want to take over the universe, maybe get a little action on the side from this prince dude." (Which is why Naz Edwards's performance in the DIC dub was perfect; it at least gave her some added campy flair.) It's not surprising that she wasn't redeemed. And, like Nadia said, Usagi is season one was NOT particularly forgiving.

That said: Beryl is one of the most compelling characters in this franchise IMO, and she deserves so much better. I want her backstory (both Silver Millennium era and her reincarnated, pre-Metallia life) to be properly explored. I want the tragedy of her character to be treated with the sympathy it deserves. I want her to be redeemed and get to have a happy ending as Setsuna's partner for once.
Well I will say this with Beryl in the 90s there are elements to her more sympathetic story with her unrequited love for Endymion. It wasn't as fleshed out as in the manga or Crystal but it was said she turned to the side of evil due to her unrequited love so she wasn't totally evil. Also I personally disagree I hated Naz as Beryl she sounded like an evil old witch stereotype. I much preferred Cindy Robinson's Beryl in the new dub. More laconic and dignified,
 
Jul 6, 2018
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#14
Well I will say this with Beryl in the 90s there are elements to her more sympathetic story with her unrequited love for Endymion. It wasn't as fleshed out as in the manga or Crystal but it was said she turned to the side of evil due to her unrequited love so she wasn't totally evil. Also I personally disagree I hated Naz as Beryl she sounded like an evil old witch stereotype. I much preferred Cindy Robinson's Beryl in the new dub. More laconic and dignified,
This was never stated in the old show. All they said was Beryl was a witch that brainwashed humanity with the help of an evil entity. The old show never statedshe turned evil out of unrequited love. Yes she told Endymikn hecould marry her beforekilling him, but it was a very different from turned evil out of jealousy. Beryl was never described as previously human and innocent in the 90s. You are mixing up with the rpg plot where they indeed madeher more sympathetic.
 
Sep 6, 2014
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#15
Iirc they at least hinted in the 90s that she was once human and corrupted by Metallia to lead the coup against Silver Millennium.

The unrequited love angle (which was barely touched on in the manga tbh) was dropped entirely but the yokai and the water guardian in episode 40 seemed to be a reference to it.
 
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#16
Iirc they at least hinted in the 90s that she was once human and corrupted by Metallia to lead the coup against Silver Millennium.

The unrequited love angle (which was barely touched on in the manga tbh) was dropped entirely but the yokai and the water guardian in episode 40 seemed to be a reference to it.
As far as I remember Mamoru didn't even said she is used or brainwashed by Metalia, he described her as a witch, using an evil entity to brainwash the humans. It was never stated she was once good or innocent. In the 90s it always looked likeBeryl is using Metalia and not vice versa.
 

Seira Hazuki

Lumen Cinereum
Jan 17, 2007
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#17
Beryl did get somewhat of a redemption in that PC Engine game... I can't seem to find that one image where Sailor Moon is cradling a dying Beryl in her arms.
 

Clow

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Jul 29, 2012
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#19
I think Beryl was simply possessed (by chaos) and could have been healed.

As a human being, she simply loved Endymion and was jealous of Serenity.
 
Jul 6, 2018
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#20
I think Beryl was simply possessed (by chaos) and could have been healed.

As a human being, she simply loved Endymion and was jealous of Serenity.
Well there was not any connection to chaos in the 90s anime. If you are talking about the manga - yes, this is the case.