Thread in which Mara rants obsessively about Naoko (again)

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Maraviollantes

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Embelyon
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#1
If Naoko was reading this thread now she would be laughing maniacally while honking her Ferrari's horn. Why, she was selling the same manga to the same people for over two decades through endless reprints, remakes, re-covers, re-whatevers without ever lifting a finger. And instead of getting sick due to having to pay for the same product, in a slightly different wrapping, again and again, her fans beg for more.
This fandom well deserved all the cheap and endless milking it got. No worries guys, I'm sure the color manga is coming in due time. ^_^
 
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Tankei Kingdom, Kinmoku
#2
Sure it'll take some *actual* work, but if they were willing to do the first chapter for an art show, why not another 59 (not including the side stories) for a few million dollars??????
That wouldn't only require a lot of work on Kodansha's part, but Naoko would need to be heavily involved to supervise and make sure the colors, shading, and textures were correct. She'd never allow them to do it by themselves without her input. She was willing to do one act for an exhibit in her honor, but she's not going to bother doing the entire thing. It's too much work for her. What would her incentive be? She's already making truckloads of money by exploiting the franchise in every way imaginable and the digital version of the manga that's coming soon is another guaranteed moneymaker with no additional effort. Let's not forget, Kodansha still hasn't delivered on their promise to release those darn art books after almost 8 years which weren't even going to be full of new pieces in the first place. Do you honestly believe they would have been able to pressure Naoko into taking on such a laborious project, even if they were willing to undertake the unconventional and expensive endeavor of manga colorization? I can only see that happening if the franchise completely dries up and both parties are in dire need of money.
 
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FloraKiraraHime

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Pikari-gaoka
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#3
That wouldn't only require a lot of work on Kodansha's part, but Naoko would need to be heavily involved to supervise and make sure the colors, shading, and textures were correct. She'd never allow them to do it by themselves without her input. She was willing to do one act for an exhibit in her honor, but she's not going to bother doing the entire thing. It's too much work for her. What would her incentive be? She's already making truckloads of money by exploiting the franchise in every way imaginable and the digital version of the manga that's coming soon is another guaranteed moneymaker with no additional effort. Let's not forget, Kodansha still hasn't delivered on their promise to release those darn art books after almost 8 years which weren't even going to be full of new pieces in the first place. Do you honestly believe they would have been able to pressure Naoko into taking on such a laborious project, even if they were willing to undertake the unconventional and expensive endeavor of manga colorization? I can only see that happening if the franchise completely dries up and both parties are in dire need of money.
Because she's busy raising her children?
 

Tuxedo Kevin

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Nov 22, 2016
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#4
Because she's busy raising her children?
No, she is filthy rich. She sure has employees that help with cooking and babysitting her children. She even has time to manage her own company, PnP.
The fact is, Naoko isn't interested in doing art anymore. She rarely releases new illustrations. Even people involved with the old anime, like Kagawa, put out more SM-related stuff than her.
 

SILVER

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Jan 7, 2014
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#6
Y'all spend an unhealthy amount of time thinking about Naoko Takeuchi and her life.
This is the most appropriate place to do that, if any.

No, she is filthy rich. She sure has employees that help with cooking and babysitting her children. She even has time to manage her own company, PnP.
The fact is, Naoko isn't interested in doing art anymore. She rarely releases new illustrations. Even people involved with the old anime, like Kagawa, put out more SM-related stuff than her.
And to this I say .... so what? What's the problem? She worked hard on a series and made her money, why does that bother some so much?
I want to know whats the issue about her hard work setting her for life, because that sounds amazing.
 

Maraviollantes

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#7
And to this I say .... so what? What's the problem? She worked hard on a series and made her money, why does that bother some so much?
She made "her" money not from some nameless banks and corportations, but out of pockets of her fans, OUR pockets. If I invest thousands dollars to support my favorite franchise, I have the full right to expect continuous improvement and advancement in the future, not regression, not cheap reprints and rehashes made by incompetent freelancers. So yes, it bothers me very much how Naoko mishandles and abuses trust and money of her fans for decades, and wastes OUR money on expensive sportcars, instead of investing OUR money into continuous improvement of the franchise. It's very straightforward logic here, and very easy to understand.
 

SILVER

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Jan 7, 2014
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#8
She made "her" money not from some nameless banks and corportations, but out of pockets of her fans, OUR pockets. If I invest thousands dollars to support my favorite franchise, (1)I have the full right to expect continuous improvement and advancement in the future, not regression, not cheap reprints and rehashes made by incompetent freelancers. So yes, it bothers me very much how (2) Naoko mishandles and abuses trust and money of her fans for decades, and wastes OUR money on expensive sportcars, instead of investing OUR money into continuous improvement of the franchise. It's very straightforward logic here, and very easy to understand.
"logical and straight forward" :loltext:

(1)Thats not how it works. Not unless that's what she's personally promising you before forking cash over... and she's not. You're paying for a finished product every time (save for Crystal when it was an ONA, but the Blu-Rays were the polished product).
Regression, reprints seeming cheap are subjective and freelancers being used to make money is literally how these industries work.
(2) WHOAAA entitlement! She herself is (as you imply) letting her little minions churn out waste with the Sailor Moon name on it, yet you're also throwing the full weight of these choices of a product that she a) likely co-owns with Toei, and doesn't fully own herself or get to decide on for by her lone self. Which is it? Is she lazy? Or is she plotting and masterminding everything? and B) the car thing is not only OVERUSED and TIRED, but why do you feel like her purchases have to be approved by her fans or you? End of day, her money is hers alone, and she can buy whatever she wants with it. Period. "Improving the franchise" doesn't need to happen if she doesn't feel like it, and if she doesn't due to laziness or having paid her dues and slaved away for years on a comic book for preteen girls thats what it is and what it'll be.
 
Mar 8, 2012
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#9
Even though I think her work has a lot of issues, I'm still a huge fan, so as a fan I do selfishly feel frustrated by her apparent retirement. She has the time and talent, so where are those art books we were promised? Why not colorize the manga? Why not finish PQ Angels? That said, she has every right to spend her money as she sees fit, manage her franchise as she sees fit, work or not work as she chooses. As fans, we're entitled to the things we spend money on being of quality (e.g. if you buy a DVD and it doesn't work, you're entitled to a replacement) and that is it. We can criticize the quality of releases or the choice of releases or vent our frustrations about how things are handled, but we also are no more obligated to fork over our money than Naoko et al are obligated to do what we want.

Furthermore: fans are not shareholders. When you buy a Sailor Moon product - be it a copy of the manga, a DVD, a doll, a keychain, what have you - you are buying that product and that product alone. You are not buying stock. You are not making an investment. Naoko/PNP/Kodansha/Toei/Viz/Bandai are not obligated to take every cent you spent on SM merchandise and put it back into making more SM products. They have to get paid, too. They have to eat. They have to have shelter and clothing. They have bills to pay. And if they want to indulge in sports cars or haute couture, they can do that too. Welcome to capitalism! How is Naoko supposed to support herself and her family if she's not supposed to keep any of the profits from her own work for herself? That makes zero sense. You get what you pay for and that's it. If you don't like how the franchise is being managed, don't buy any more of its products. It's not complicated. I haven't bought any of the Eternal Editions past the first volume because I was underwhelmed by the translation (and what I've seen of subsequent volumes' translations), think they're overpriced, and I'm holding out for a better release. I haven't bought any of Viz's releases because I think their dub is mediocre at best and I think the company itself is shady. I'm not going to buy one of their DVDs and then complain they didn't invest that money into a new SM product I'd like. That's not how that works. That's not how any of this works.
 
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Jan 17, 2007
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#10
Her business decisions and her work (both of which have their share of problems) are fair game for criticism and I think users like @MementoNepenthe are fair in their criticism in that regard.

But the personal attacks from the others are too much and float dangerously close to libel IMHO. Like people are coming for how she's raising her children?! How do you know so much about her life?????????
 

Tuxedo Kevin

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Nov 22, 2016
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#11
Her business decisions and her work (both of which have their share of problems) are fair game for criticism and I think users like @MementoNepenthe are fair in their criticism in that regard.

But the personal attacks from the others are too much and float dangerously close to libel IMHO. Like people are coming for how she's raising her children?! How do you know so much about her life?????????
I never attacked her. I just meant it's silly to think "she's too busy for SM because she has children". She wouldn't own a company if that was the case.

And to this I say .... so what? What's the problem? She worked hard on a series and made her money, why does that bother some so much?
I want to know whats the issue about her hard work setting her for life, because that sounds amazing.
Did I say this is a problem? Did I say I was bothered?
Someone asked if the reason for her not coloring the manga was her children, and I just said "no", because that's obvious. You guys are too overprotective of Naoko. No one is bashing her here. Geez.
I don't mind if she's not releasing new art. My actual criticism of her is about how she deals with international business deals, but I'm not exposing it here because it's not the place. But I have every right to speak my mind.
 
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Mar 8, 2012
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#14
The only thing you said that's questionable is, "She sure has employees that help with cooking and babysitting her children." I don't recall her ever saying she has hired help (not that there'd be anything wrong with that being the case) so I'm not sure where you're getting that from? Other than that, I think Seira and Silver are more responding to Mara and maybe SailorStarlight than they are to you.
 
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Tuxedo Kevin

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#15
The only thing you said that's questionable is, "She sure has employees that help with cooking and babysitting her children." I don't recall her ever saying she has hired help (not that there'd be anything wrong with that being the case) so I'm not sure where you're getting that from? Other than that, I think Seira and Silver are more responding to Mara and maybe SailorStarlight than they are to you.
Well, 99% of wealthy people hire help with domestic tasks. That was just a supposition I made. I should have said "She probably has" instead of "I'm sure she has". Mistakes we make as non-native speakers ^_^'
 
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#16
I'm just not sure how common it is for wealthy people to hire help in Japan. I'm sure she has assistants, but they probably help with things other than domestic tasks, though she may have people who clean her home. As for child care, it's more likely she was fully in charge of that with some help from her own mother and possibly her mother-in-law as well, but now that her kids should be in high school, child care shouldn't be an issue. In any event, she's still willing to write lyrics and participate in casting and supervisory roles for Crystal and the musicals, so it's not like she's not working full stop. It seems she just hasn't the passion at the moment to release those art books or do any other manga-related projects.
 
Jan 17, 2007
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#17
I completely agree it's preposterous that the new art book hasn't seen the light of day, and I think the brand is almost exploitative in how it recycles the same content over and over (you can also blame the fans who have obsessive tendencies to collect), but you can criticize Naoko's decision making there without involving her personal life which none of us are familiar with.
 
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#18
I agree. As I've said before (or at least, I think I've said before), it's very easy for companies (and fans) to use Naoko as a scapegoat because 1) she's a woman, and 2) she's very private and isn't exactly out here openly addressing rumors and offering up counter-narratives. It's entirely possible she's responsible for a lot of the delays and mismanagement that have been the bane of our existence for the past ten or so years, but it's just as possible others are entirely to blame. We will never know what's going on behind the scenes, so I think the best approach is just to blame all parties equally and treat the rumors about Naoko with a pinch of salt.
 

Maraviollantes

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#19
Period. "Improving the franchise" doesn't need to happen if she doesn't feel like it, and if she doesn't due to laziness or having paid her dues and slaved away for years on a comic book for preteen girls thats what it is and what it'll be.
She is fully entitled to blow fan money buying expensive sportcars until the rest of her days if she feels so, and I'm fully entitled to criticize her management of this franchise until the rest of my days, if I feel so.

If this year Apple instead of iPhone 12 releases a shitty phone with 512KB of storage and monochrome screen worth $10, all of that designed by a nameless freelancer in his basement, am I allowed to say that Apple released a crappy phone? If I'm a long term Apple fan who bought every iPhone coming every year, am I allowed to say Apple badly mismanaged billions of money they got from selling their previous phones? Am I allowed to say that instead of blowing all money on sportcars they should have invested enough to make sure each their next product is an improvement and not a regression?

Or just because Apple, legally, didn't promise to release better phones every year, I should keep my mouth shut and have no right to call their crappy phone crappy, and have no right criticize anything?

Actually, if something like that happened, I think millions of Apple fans would be extremely disappointed and would be very vocal about it. If you can understand feelings of Apple fans in this simple analogy, for sure you can understand why I feel extremely disappointed by management of BSSM franchise, and feel that I have the full right to criticize it.

B) the car thing is not only OVERUSED and TIRED
As overused as Naoko overusing the same stale manga from twenty years ago, or slightly less overused? Each my car joke is written by me personally, and have a bit of creativity invested into each one. Naoko can't say the same about her products. Her creativity and interest in this franchise died out many years ago.
 

Tuxedo Kevin

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Nov 22, 2016
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#20
I agree. As I've said before (or at least, I think I've said before), it's very easy for companies (and fans) to use Naoko as a scapegoat because 1) she's a woman, and 2) she's very private and isn't exactly out here openly addressing rumors and offering up counter-narratives. It's entirely possible she's responsible for a lot of the delays and mismanagement that have been the bane of our existence for the past ten or so years, but it's just as possible others are entirely to blame. We will never know what's going on behind the scenes, so I think the best approach is just to blame all parties equally and treat the rumors about Naoko with a pinch of salt.
So many international companies have blamed her for delays over the years, even Toei Animation told a Spanish anime distributor they couldn't close a deal because Naoko was literally taking years to sign papers. I don't see why there's a reason not to believe those statements, but I understand your point.