Toon Makers, DiC, and Toei

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MementoNepenthe

Aurorae Lunares
Mar 8, 2012
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#1
Since the voice over script for the somehow-still-unreleased Toon Makers Sailor Moon (TMSM) proof-of-concept was made available (seven years ago!!!!), we've known that several elements of the DiC dub likely originated from there (e.g. the use of a narrator, the name Darian/Darien, the Sailors' all being princesses, and Sailor Moon and Prince Darian/Darien's being engaged in Moon Kingdom times). As a result, I've often wondered whether or not other elements of the DiC dub (like the names Serena, Amy, Raye, etc; Amy's being a transfer student; etc) also came from TMSM. (After all, originally DiC was going to call the girls Victoria, Blue, Dana, Sarah, and Carrie.)

More recently, however, I've been wondering how and why DiC borrowed elements from TMSM in the first place. It can't be just a coincidence that the two have these commonalities, and I can't see Toon Makers altruistically volunteering their materials for their competitor's perusal, nor can I see DiC reaching out to Toon Makers to take a look at the version of Sailor Moon they'd been working on. Thus it would seem DiC could only have acquired those materials via Toei, which raises the question of why Toei would have given them those materials.

It's quite possible that Toei simply and carelessly had lumped all their English-language Sailor Moon materials together in one big mess and sent that off to a befuddled DiC, and that DiC used the concepts from TMSM that they did by mistake/out of confusion, or simply because they liked what they saw. But what if Toei purposely sent DiC the TMSM materials and requested/required that they incorporate some of its elements?

My underlying point here, I suppose, is that I don't think we quite know who - Toei or DiC - was responsible for what changes that were made in the original dub, so it seems silly and arbitrary to "blame" DiC for everything. (Obviously I quite enjoy most of the changes made in the original dub, but just as obviously many here do not.) At the very least, this seems to prove that either Toei actively wanted some of these changes, or they didn't care enough about the series to make sure the materials it was sending out were correct.
 
Jul 6, 2018
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#2
I do not know about the restof the stuff, but I have read somewhere ( I will try to find where later) but there was an early promo of the DiC dub with very different names. If this is indeed true, then the actual names used in the dubs were decided long after that idea was scrapped.
 

MementoNepenthe

Aurorae Lunares
Mar 8, 2012
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#4
I do not know about the restof the stuff, but I have read somewhere ( I will try to find where later) but there was an early promo of the DiC dub with very different names. If this is indeed true, then the actual names used in the dubs were decided long after that idea was scrapped.
I linked to that promo in my post, unless you've heard of yet another promo with yet another batch of names?
 
Jul 6, 2018
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#5
I linked to that promo in my post, unless you've heard of yet another promo with yet another batch of names?
Actually it was not about a promo, but some dolls merch with different names. Might have been the same as the obe in the promo. I always thought the Japanese Karen to be a very pretty name and would have suite Minako. Carrie would have been close enough. Mina is very common in my country, but one of these old-fashioned name for old grannies.
 
Jun 30, 2010
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#7
But what if Toei purposely sent DiC the TMSM materials and requested/required that they incorporate some of its elements?
Although we'll never know with 100% certainty, I guess this is the most likely the case. It's possible that DiC was going to dub with their proto-names and Toei stepped in and said, "No, this is what you are using." It's also not out of the question that the proto-names weren't even supposed to be used for anything other than the promo-video, but were just placeholders. Since promo videos like that were very common (see the Mega Man promo video and look at how it differed from the final product) and usually sent out before any production work was done on the episodes themselves, it's hard to tell. Either way, I'm guessing Toei sent DiC the material because Toonmakers had to relinquish what was worked on and Toei thought that these general terms and plot elements could be grafted onto the anime itself.

Fans like to blame DiC for doing their own thing. Nevetheless, it has been documented via interviews and such that DiC did not create everything out of their imagination, and that these changes had to be approved by Toei, even back then. I'd surmise that the DiC dub was Toei's vision of the series in North America, not out of apathy ("anything to make a quick buck"), but out of intent ("we want it localized this way"). It's also easy for fans to lump together certain changes such as names and terms, with actual "censorship" to comply with broadcasting standards, as well as general mistakes. In terms of the names and elements, though, there's enough evidence to suggest, albeit not confirm, this is what Toei wanted. They set out the general parameters and DiC would work out the details.
 
Sep 6, 2014
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#9
Although we'll never know with 100% certainty, I guess this is the most likely the case. It's possible that DiC was going to dub with their proto-names and Toei stepped in and said, "No, this is what you are using." It's also not out of the question that the proto-names weren't even supposed to be used for anything other than the promo-video, but were just placeholders. Since promo videos like that were very common (see the Mega Man promo video and look at how it differed from the final product) and usually sent out before any production work was done on the episodes themselves, it's hard to tell. Either way, I'm guessing Toei sent DiC the material because Toonmakers had to relinquish what was worked on and Toei thought that these general terms and plot elements could be grafted onto the anime itself.

Fans like to blame DiC for doing their own thing. Nevetheless, it has been documented via interviews and such that DiC did not create everything out of their imagination, and that these changes had to be approved by Toei, even back then. I'd surmise that the DiC dub was Toei's vision of the series in North America, not out of apathy ("anything to make a quick buck"), but out of intent ("we want it localized this way"). It's also easy for fans to lump together certain changes such as names and terms, with actual "censorship" to comply with broadcasting standards, as well as general mistakes. In terms of the names and elements, though, there's enough evidence to suggest, albeit not confirm, this is what Toei wanted. They set out the general parameters and DiC would work out the details.
Toei was very conscience of Sailor Moon’s status as an inoffensive and safe kids show in the us. Which is why we didn’t get Sailor Stars back in the day even as a sub only release. Wouldn’t surprise me if Toei not only agreed to the censorship but encouraged it. We know at the very least that Toei/Kodansha had to okay any and all changes made. So it’s not like they didn’t know DiC was going to use Anglo-Saxon names.

Obviously there’s a reason why DiC ended up with certain holdovers from Toonmakers and I suspect a lot of it was Toei especially if merchandise was already being made with the Toonmaker info.