Unsolved Mysteries of the Optimum Dub

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BlueMoon

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Sep 6, 2014
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#21
I wonder if there was anyone actually coordinating all this information though? Like a dub series bible from DiC?

Darien’s last name being Shields seems to be a Mixx thing that other parties ran with.
 

MementoNepenthe

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Mar 8, 2012
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#22
I feel like there had to be some sort of series bible for marketing purposes, though who knows what it contained or how closely companies had to follow it. After all, there were official trading cards that gave Molly's name as "Molly Osaka" even though her last name in the dub was Baker, Nephrite's dub name was spelled a hundred different ways (Nephlite, Nephlyte, Neflyte, Neflite), etc. Still, I'm willing to accept "Shields" as Darien's canon dub last name (partly because as a kid, I always thought Andrew's last name was "Crown," and I like the idea of their being a duo called "Crown and Shields").
 

BlueMoon

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#23
I feel like there had to be some sort of series bible for marketing purposes
Good point. It would make for an interesting read. I imagine that’s also where the idea that all evil the Scouts faced would be from the Negaverse.

,
ough who knows what it contained or how closely companies had to follow it. After all, there were official trading cards that gave Molly's name as "Molly Osaka" even though her last name in the dub was Baker,
And I seem to remember Molly’s last name was stated in-show more times than any other character :P


Still, I'm willing to accept "Shields" as Darien's canon dub last name (partly because as a kid, I always thought Andrew's last name was "Crown," and I like the idea of their being a duo called "Crown and Shields").
Ha nice

And yeah I can accept Shields as Darien’s “official” last name in lieu of the dub ever giving him one and supplementary licensed material using it.

It’s more official than Serena’s last name being Campbell.
 

BlueMoon

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#25
Where did "Campbell" even come from? I've never seen any official source use it. I swear, fans just like to make stuff up...
Who knows. I’ve seen online a few places with nothing to back it up. If the dub ever assigned Serena a last name other than Tsukino it never made it past DiC’s internal memos.


Also if you’re gonna give Serena an Anglo-Saxon last name in place of Tsukino I would call her Serena Armstrong :P

Less on the nose than Serena Moon
 
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Pikari-gaoka
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#26
@MariaTenebre Manga/PGSM/Crystal Rei does not hate men, she thinks they can't be trusted. I simply wanted to make it clear she doesn't hate men. There is a big difference between distrusting the male sex and hating men.
 

MementoNepenthe

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#27
I wonder whatever happened to Lita's old boyfriends, Freddy and Kevin (I feel like she had a third boyfriend who was named?), and Michelle's old boyfriends, Brad (the cutest guy in school who was her first kiss) and Mike (the ex Amara mentions in episode 104)?
 

Umino

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#28
The Role Playing Book has a lot of mistakes, so I wouldn't count on it. It was also made before the CWI dub came out, which is where Serena has her original surname. "Darien Shields" I believe comes from Tokyopop.

Amy keeping her last name is debatable
She kept it in S. It was probably an error on CWI's part, but she did keep it.
 

MementoNepenthe

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#29
It has some mistakes, or includes some information that became outdated (such as using Corrin, Nerissa, and Celia as the Outers' names, or stating that Lita's parents are both deceased (curse you, throwaway line!)), but for the most part its information lines up with the dub and things written in other dub-related books, so I'm willing to take its use of Tsukino and Shields as confirmation of those being their intended (if unspoken) surnames in the DIC dub.

(I also see it lists the name of Mina's school as Grass Valley Junior High, which I'd never heard before, but it works for me :lol:)
 

MariaTenebre

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Jul 22, 2009
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#30
I feel like there had to be some sort of series bible for marketing purposes, though who knows what it contained or how closely companies had to follow it. After all, there were official trading cards that gave Molly's name as "Molly Osaka" even though her last name in the dub was Baker, Nephrite's dub name was spelled a hundred different ways (Nephlite, Nephlyte, Neflyte, Neflite), etc. Still, I'm willing to accept "Shields" as Darien's canon dub last name (partly because as a kid, I always thought Andrew's last name was "Crown," and I like the idea of their being a duo called "Crown and Shields").
Allegedly I heard that Andrew aka Motoki's last name in the dub was Foreman. I feel like it says this on wikimoon.
 

MementoNepenthe

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#31
That's the last name he was given in the Tokyopop novelizations, but who knows where they got it from. I do like it though.
 

BlueMoon

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#32
The Role Playing Book has a lot of mistakes, so I wouldn't count on it. It was also made before the CWI dub came out, which is where Serena has her original surname. "Darien Shields" I believe comes from Tokyopop.
Pretty much every dub source that gave her a surname has Serena’s last name as Tsukino. SuperS made it official.

You’re right Shields came from Tokyopop.

She kept it in S. It was probably an error on CWI's part, but she did keep it.
I meant it’s debatable that she kept her last name when the dub originally stated it was Anderson and every licensed source more or less went with it. Amy is the only Scout to officially have a family name change of course.

It’s like when Helios referred to Darien as Endymion once. Can we really count that when every other time he’s been Prince/King Darien?

Allegedly I heard that Andrew aka Motoki's last name in the dub was Foreman. I feel like it says this on wikimoon.
Iiirc the Tokyopop novels gave him the last name Foreman in addition to assigning Melvin the last name of Grier
 

BlueMoon

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#33
Allegedly I heard that Andrew aka Motoki's last name in the dub was Foreman. I feel like it says this on wikimoon.
Iiirc the Tokyopop novels gave him the last name Foreman in addition to assigning Melvin the last name of Grier.
That's the last name he was given in the Tokyopop novelizations, but who knows where they got it from. I do like it though.
Probably the writer(s) looking at his last name of Furuhata and just thinking of the first Anglo-Saxon surname they could think of that started with F. Like Gurio to Grier.
 

MementoNepenthe

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#34
I wish I could track down contact info for Anita Sengupta, who translated the manga for Tokyopop, so we could ask if she remembers where the name "Shields" came from, but alas the only Anita Sengupta I could find is a scientist, not a translator.

As for the Prince Darien/Prince Endymion thing... Similar to the Princess Serena/Princess Serenity thing, maybe his full name was Darien Endymion, and Helios just addressed him by his second name or possible epithet? (The name "Endymion" doesn't have a clearly agreed upon etymology, but it may have something to do with sleep, so it would be thematically consistent for Helios to use that name for him.)
 

BlueMoon

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#35
I wish I could track down contact info for Anita Sengupta, who translated the manga for Tokyopop, so we could ask if she remembers where the name "Shields" came from, but alas the only Anita Sengupta I could find is a scientist, not a translator.

As for the Prince Darien/Prince Endymion thing... Similar to the Princess Serena/Princess Serenity thing, maybe his full name was Darien Endymion, and Helios just addressed him by his second name or possible epithet? (The name "Endymion" doesn't have a clearly agreed upon etymology, but it may have something to do with sleep, so it would be thematically consistent for Helios to use that name for him.)
The Serena/Serenity thing seemed to be someone totally forgetting they ever called her Princess Serena? It’s weird though because except for like one time she was pretty much exclusively Princess Serena in the 1995 dubbed episodes. I think Mina referred to her as Princess Serena in No Thanks Nurse Venus but that was the last time that was done? When Neo-Queen Serenity was properly introduced she was called that and it was applied to her princess form as well starting with the R movie.

I don’t think the Cloverway dub ever had her referred to as Princess Serena at least.

Personally I would have preferred Princess Serenity and Prince Endymion but Queen Serena and King Darien. But that’s just me
 

MementoNepenthe

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#36
I mean, she's called Princess Serena and Princess Serenity in that first episode (A Reluctant Princess) so it doesn't really seem like a case of "forgetting" she was called Princess Serena so much as someone probably having a mind lapse and writing "Serenity" in the script by mistake and no one catching it.
 
Jun 30, 2010
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#37
Concerning the oracle, I never really gave it much thought, other than the oracle possibly being one of the shadowed courtiers. I don't necessarily like the oracle being Wiseman, because Wiseman, even at first, seemed to be a lot more powerful than a mere prophet, but I admit it is a nice way of tying together the series.

However, as far as the Brighton Academy issue goes, I've given this a little more thought. No, Amy didn't flunk out; she's clearly too dedicated to fail. Rather, I assumed she did leave by force...because she was wrongly accused of cheating as a pretext. It makes sense given that in Smart Payoff this is the charge she is hit with and why she doesn't collapse under the weight of the charge in front of everyone; she's gone through this before. I gathered her departure was a 50-50 decision; Brighton Academy didn't want her around and given how unethical the school was, she didn't want to be there, either. Like BlueMoon wrote, bullying may have played a role. Also, Brighton Academy, in my mind, was the precursor to Mugen School. For some reason, I kept imagining that Dr. Tomoe reformed an existing school instead of establishing one from scratch.

With regard to the Doom Phantom, I gathered that the Doom Phantom and Wiseman were definitely separate entities. The Doom Phantom was essentially the Negaforce (and represented by that shadowy figure that had the mark of the Negamoon), while Wiseman was just the being that served it. I didn't gather Wiseman fused the the Doom Phantom as much as he was channeling the power of the Doom Phantom through him as filtered by the Dark Crystal. Doom Phantom was willingly possessing him, but it wasn't a fusion.

This makes a fair degree of sense when he only starts referring to himself as the Doom Phantom after Wicked Lady reverts to Rini; he was clearly planning on her being the avatar or human lens for the negative energy only for himself to be forced into the role of taking the sacrifice to ensure the destruction occurs.

I sadly don't believe there was any series Bible given how inconsistent the terminology was.

Where did "Campbell" even come from? I've never seen any official source use it. I swear, fans just like to make stuff up...
I remember a rumor that there was a fan radio drama that used the last name, and somehow it caught on from there.

As for the Serena/Serenity deal. I guessed her actual royal name was Serenity, but Serena was an official nickname to distinguish mother from daughter.

It’s like when Helios referred to Darien as Endymion once. Can we really count that when every other time he’s been Prince/King Darien?
IIRC, he was never King Darien in the dub, but instead said people called him "King of the Earth" and others only either addressed him directly as "Your Majesty" or as "The King" (or "Daddy" by Rini) I don't believe he was ever addressed directly by name by any other character
 
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MementoNepenthe

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#39
Concerning the oracle, I never really gave it much thought, other than the oracle possibly being one of the shadowed courtiers. I don't necessarily like the oracle being Wiseman, because Wiseman, even at first, seemed to be a lot more powerful than a mere prophet, but I admit it is a nice way of tying together the series.
The Wiseman we meet in the series is from at least 900 years in the future. Maybe he just used the intervening near millennium to become more powerful?

Also, Brighton Academy, in my mind, was the precursor to Mugen School. For some reason, I kept imagining that Dr. Tomoe reformed an existing school instead of establishing one from scratch.
I think we're on a similar wavelength. In my personal imaginary remake of the series, I'd have Ami's mother send her to the Mugen School during the Infinity arc where she'd encounter her old friend/rival from Brighton Academy, Julie Bardot (Viluy).

With regard to the Doom Phantom, I gathered that the Doom Phantom and Wiseman were definitely separate entities. The Doom Phantom was essentially the Negaforce (and represented by that shadowy figure that had the mark of the Negamoon), while Wiseman was just the being that served it. I didn't gather Wiseman fused the the Doom Phantom as much as he was channeling the power of the Doom Phantom through him as filtered by the Dark Crystal. Doom Phantom was willingly possessing him, but it wasn't a fusion.

This makes a fair degree of sense when he only starts referring to himself as the Doom Phantom after Wicked Lady reverts to Rini; he was clearly planning on her being the avatar or human lens for the negative energy only for himself to be forced into the role of taking the sacrifice to ensure the destruction occurs.
I can see that being the case. Of course, that means the Doom Phantom is still out there, perhaps along with the Negaforce and the other "powers of the Negaverse" that Nephlite talked about, which may or may not be sentient energy monsters like the Negaforce.

I sadly don't believe there was any series Bible given how inconsistent the terminology was.
A series Bible doesn't necessarily need to include terminology, just a basic rundown of the plot and characters. They can be written up during pre-production and then never updated as the series progresses, resulting in the bible having inaccurate information.

IIRC, he was never King Darien in the dub, but instead said people called him "King of the Earth" and others only either addressed him directly as "Your Majesty" or as "The King" (or "Daddy" by Rini) I don't believe he was ever addressed directly by name by any other character
I believe you're right. Diana calls him Prince Darien in one episode, not King Darien, which was a little weird.
 

BlueMoon

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#40
^Also in S when The Outers meet with him to tell him about who they are and their purpose (Rini’s Risky friendship) Neptune (or Pluto? It wasn’t Uranus) said something like “We’ve been expecting you Darien or should I say...KING Darien!”

For some reason I thought he was called King Darien in the final 17 episodes of R. But now that Nadia mentioned it I do believe she is correct the “lost” episodes only had him referred to as King of the earth. Or the king. Oops.


At any rate it makes sense for a guy to be named Darien who has been Darien in his past life has no idea about the legacy of his family in his royal last to be King Darien. Plus Endymion came the hell out of nowhere near the dub’s end.

At least Serenity seemed more like a title passed through the Matriarchy of the Royal Silver Millenium Family