[US] Sailor Moon & Codename Sailor V manga kanzenban thread

  • This site uses cookies. By continuing to use this site, you are agreeing to our use of cookies. Learn more.

Neo Moonlight

Lumen Cinereum
Dec 7, 2009
992
340
165
30
Since it was made I actually only watch the Viz dub personally, so that doesn't apply to me. If a dub is available, I watch it. (Honestly, I don't care if names are changed or if there are minor edits to reflect the region its in either. That sort of thing is perfectly normal, changes are made to things like Disney movies in other countries too, including Japan.)

I did say I prefer to think there's an innocent explanation but I guess I became cynical enough to speculate other ones.

I don't know her though so despite my musings, I'm doing my best to keep a neutral view of her, but I'm only human. I'm not outright accusing her of anything, because I don't know. The whole international moratorium thing in the 00's was super weird though you have to admit. Never heard of any other creator doing something like that, which was the reason I had those sorts of thoughts start.

The thing is though, whether she intends to or not her restrictions only end up punishing the fans in the end which is a real shame.

Anyway though, as I said, I don't know her so I'm not making any definitive claims, just wanted to explain my thoughts a bit more was all. Just going to say now that I don't wish to make a debate over this, as the only one who knows for certain what Takeuchi feels is Takeuchi herself. Do feel free to share your thoughts too of course, though.
 
Last edited:
Nov 22, 2016
869
671
665
Really? We're accusing Naoko of being a bigot now? :|

She's an artist. There's nothing wrong with her wanting her art to be accurately reproduced. Why should she approve printings that aren't colored accurately? I love how this fandom will eviscerate dubs for being inaccurate and then attempt to crucify Naoko for not wanting her work to be reproduced inaccurately.

It would be great if PNP were more lenient and understanding when working with companies in smaller markets that maybe haven't the same kind of resources as, say, an American company, but that comes down to poor business sense, not xenophobia or hatred of fans.
The fact is that she apparently only pushes that hard when dealing with less profitable markets/countries.
Guess which country was one of the very few who asked for a redub and has actually gotten permission to do so? The almighty USA.
Italy and Portugal had to work with their censored old dubs. I'm not sure about Portugal, but Italy asked for a redub and the request was denied. "But who says it was Naoko?" Toei itself. The same applies for Brazil, where fans disliked the old R-Stars dub and Toei claimed Naoko didn't authorize the S redub.
We can't be sure of Naoko's motivations, but yes, there are chances she's an actual bigot.
 
Nov 22, 2016
869
671
665
Since it was made I actually only watch the Viz dub personally, so that doesn't apply to me. If a dub is available, I watch it. (Honestly, I don't care if names are changed or if there are minor edits to reflect the region its in either. That sort of thing is perfectly normal, changes are made to things like Disney movies in other countries too, including Japan.)

I did say I prefer to think there's an innocent explanation but I guess I became cynical enough to speculate other ones.

I don't know her though so despite my musings, I'm doing my best to keep a neutral view of her, but I'm only human. I'm not outright accusing her of anything, because I don't know. The whole international moratorium thing in the 00's was super weird though you have to admit. Never heard of any other creator doing something like that, which was the reason I had those sorts of thoughts start.

The thing is though, whether she intends to or not her restrictions only end up punishing the fans in the end which is a real shame.

Anyway though, as I said, I don't know her so I'm not making any definitive claims, just wanted to explain my thoughts a bit more was all. Just going to say now that I don't wish to make a debate over this, as the only one who knows for certain what Takeuchi feels is Takeuchi herself. Do feel free to share your thoughts too of course, though.
The woman who drew Candy Candy also imposed an international block, after disagreements with the manga writer.
The irony is that Naoko watched the Candy Candy anime as a kid growing up.
Guess she took more inspiration from it than she should :lol:
 

Neo Moonlight

Lumen Cinereum
Dec 7, 2009
992
340
165
30
The woman who drew Candy Candy also imposed an international block, after disagreements with the manga writer.
The irony is that Naoko watched the Candy Candy anime as a kid growing up.
Guess she took more inspiration from it than she should :lol:
The irony in that is almost ridiculous XD

As I said in a previous comment, like it or not Takeuchi, I have your series and I can enjoy it if I want to. XD
 
Last edited:

NJ_

Aurorae Lunares
Oct 31, 2009
7,669
1,330
1,665
34
Wallington, NJ
Italy and Portugal had to work with their censored old dubs. I'm not sure about Portugal, but Italy asked for a redub and the request was denied.
As bad as Naoko seems to be, this one was actually later confirmed by Dynit to be because of money.

From December 2012 (hidden in the comments section):

Dynit

Dynit said:
Salve a tutti,

raramente intervengo nelle discussioni (più che altro per mancanza di tempo), ma questa discussione mi sta particolarmente interessando e ci terrei a chiarire alcuni aspetti: quando decidemmo di acquisire i diritti di Sailor Moon per il canale Home Video, l’unico doppiaggio disponibile era quello storico, non ve n’era uno nuovo, come, ad esempio, è successo per Gundam. Per cui quello che potevamo fare era ottimizzare al massimo i materiali che avevamo, ad esempio ri-masterizzando il video (che non è quello creato per la TV) effettuando una nuova trascodifica, creando dei sottotitoli fedeli dai copioni giapponesi, editando un booklet che spiegasse tutti i dettagli della serie, evidenziando le differenze tra l’edizione italiana e quella giapponese.

A quelli che si stanno chiedendo “ma allora perché non avete fatto un nuovo doppiaggio?”, rispondo semplicemente perché sarebbe costato troppo, avremmo dovuto vendere i cofanetti almeno al doppio di quanto li vendiamo ora, e probabilmente anche così non saremmo rientrati delle spese, andando pertanto in perdita, magari rischiando di abbandonare il progetto a metà strada. Oggi il mercato Home Video è in forte difficoltà, a causa principalmente della downloading illegale da internet, e noi non possiamo non considerare tutti gli aspetti prima di acquistare delle nuove licenze. Tra l’altro, per la cronaca, la previsione di Dynit per la prossime stagioni è, nella migliore delle ipotesi, di andare in pareggio con i costi di acquisizione diritti, materiali e lavorazioni. Per cui, sempre qualcuno si starà chiedendo: ”e allora perché lo fate?”. Lo facciamo perché non vogliamo tradire il nostro pubblico e perché sono convinto che la qualità e la passione che mettiamo nel nostro lavoro sia percepita ed apprezzata da tutti voi, o almeno lo spero. Questo per me è sempre stato importante, oggi più che mai.

Per cui, concludendo: siete solo voi a decidere se acquistare o no i nostri prodotti, solo ricordatevi che facendolo contribuite a finanziare questo settore (iniziando dall’autore e finendo con la persona che vi sta battendo lo scontrino del dvd) che noi tutti tanto amiamo e che, viceversa, non troverebbe le risorse per continuare a produrre capolavori come Sailor Moon, Gundam, Evangelion, ecc…

Colgo l’occasione per augurare a tutti Buon Natale e Felice Anno Nuovo.

Carlo
Dynit via Google Translate said:
Hello everyone,

I rarely intervene in the discussions (mostly due to lack of time), but this discussion is of particular interest to me and I would like to clarify some aspects: when we decided to acquire the rights of Sailor Moon for the Home Video channel, the only dubbing available was the historical one, there was no new one, as, for example, happened for Gundam. So what we could do was maximize the materials we had, for example by re-burning the video (which is not the one created for TV) by making a new transcoding, creating faithful subtitles from Japanese scripts, editing a booklet that explained all the details of the series, highlighting the differences between the Italian and Japanese editions.

To those who are wondering "so why didn't you do a new dubbing?", I answer simply because it would have cost too much, we would have had to sell the boxes at least twice what we sell them now, and probably even so we would not have reimbursed the expenses, therefore going at a loss, perhaps risking abandoning the project halfway. Today the Home Video market is in great difficulty, mainly due to illegal downloading from the internet, and we cannot fail to consider all aspects before purchasing new licenses. Among other things, for the record, Dynit's forecast for the coming seasons is, at best, to break even with the costs of acquiring rights, materials and processes. So, someone will always be wondering: "So why do you do it?". We do it because we don't want to betray our audience and because I am convinced that the quality and passion we put into our work is perceived and appreciated by all of you, or at least I hope so. This has always been important to me, today more than ever.

So, in conclusion: you are the only one who decides whether or not to buy our products, just remember that by doing so you help finance this sector (starting with the author and ending with the person who is beating you the receipt of the DVD) that we all like we love and that, conversely, would not find the resources to continue producing masterpieces such as Sailor Moon, Gundam, Evangelion, etc ...

I take this opportunity to wish everyone a Merry Christmas and a Happy New Year.

Charles
(Original Bing Translation in this thread)
 
Last edited:
Jun 6, 2006
3,133
618
665
30
NJ
The woman who drew Candy Candy also imposed an international block, after disagreements with the manga writer.
The irony is that Naoko watched the Candy Candy anime as a kid growing up.
Guess she took more inspiration from it than she should :lol:
...It was much more than that. The artist was selling Candy Candy merchandise without the consent of the original author. It ignited a huge legal battle that lasted years. While everything has been settled, nobody wants to release Candy Candy ever again because of it.
 

NJ_

Aurorae Lunares
Oct 31, 2009
7,669
1,330
1,665
34
Wallington, NJ
Jul 29, 2012
4,098
866
665
To be honest her attitude towards foreign markets have made me suspect she's xenophobic if not outright racist for a while now, and this sort of thing just makes me suspect it even more. But as you said, it's just speculation, as none of us know her in person and can't know for sure.
Someone posted an article from Tuxedo Unmasked here, I wish I could find it. The article said that Naoko’s company, PNP, allegedly bought the 90’s anime from TOEI. Thus, the reason it seems difficult to license “Sailor Moon” in foreign markets.

I believe a dub costs money and Naoko needs to make sure that she will at least have a return of investment. Dubbing songs is also costly; I am not sure if this was the situation, but I believe that dubbing “Princess Moon” to Spanish would require Naoko to pay royalties and, for that reason, she may not have allowed Towers Entertainment to dub the song (I am speculating here, but this line of thought kinda makes sense).

To summarize, if Naoko indeed bought the 90’s anime from TOEI and is the sole owner and manager of the property, then licensing “Sailor Moon” is obviously going to be difficult. You’re not negotiating with a big studio like TOEI, you are negotiating with a small company.
 
Last edited:
Sep 9, 2011
3,397
226
165
26
Richmond, VA, United States
Glad I held out then, because I'd much rather get those editions. The Eternal editions are just too tall for my taste, and these would match the rest of my manga collection. Saves me a lot of $$$ too.

Someone posted an article from Tuxedo Unmasked here, I wish I could find it. The article said that Naoko’s company, PNP, allegedly bought the 90’s anime from TOEI. Thus, the reason it seems difficult to license “Sailor Moon” in foreign markets.

I believe a dub costs money and Naoko needs to make sure that she will at least have a return of investment. Dubbing songs is also costly; I am not sure if this was the situation, but I believe that dubbing “Princess Moon” to Spanish would require Naoko to pay royalties and, for that reason, she may not have allowed Towers Entertainment to dub the song (I am speculating here, but this line of thought kinda makes sense).

To summarize, if Naoko indeed bought the 90’s anime from TOEI and is the sole owner and manager of the property, then licensing “Sailor Moon” is obviously going to be difficult. You’re not negotiating with a big studio like TOEI, you are negotiating with a small company.
Toei's name and logo is still heavily featured on Viz and Madman's releases, so I don't think that's the case. At best, she might be getting a bigger slice of the pie. It's not like Hideaki Anno's company buying the rights to Evangelion. Keep in mind that mangaka's companies are usually still usually featured in the copyright info for anime. For instance Akira Toriyama's company Bird Studio is always listed in the copyright info for Dragon Ball properties.
 
Jul 29, 2012
4,098
866
665
I don’t believe that Naoko is denying any country a dub—the problem is that a dub is too expensive, as the Italian distributor mentioned, and I think the reason it is expensive is that Naoko doesn’t want to pay for things like royalties herself. That is my speculation.
 
Mar 8, 2012
4,769
3,570
1,665
A royalty is a share of profits generated by a copyrighted work. Regardless of whether or not the anime is subbed or dubbed, if the voice actors, writers, directors, producers, and/or musicians have it in their contracts that they're entitled to royalties from home video sales, then they're entitled to those royalties. Naoko isn't responsible for paying royalties out of her own pocket.
 
Mar 8, 2012
4,769
3,570
1,665
Again: Royalties are paid out of profits. If there are no profits, there are no royalties.

Let's say Naoko's contracts allow her to keep 50% of the profits as her royalty. If the series earns $1 million, she's going to get $500,000. If other people involved (such as composers) are also entitled to royalties, that's not going to affect Naoko's profits one iota.

I have no idea why Naoko didn't let Princess Moon get dubbed, but from her end, it would have nothing to do with royalties.
 
Nov 22, 2016
869
671
665
This "Naoko bought the rights of the old anime" thing is plain bat****.
It's still distributed worldwide by Toei, as it has always been. Maybe there's a chance she owns a portion of it, since PnP always gets credited alongside Toei in every post-2010 release.
 
Jul 29, 2012
4,098
866
665
Then I don’t understand. I suspect that VIZ had to pay a lot of money for the new dub. And they released those blu-rays with a collectible coin to boost sales. Also, it is not too uncommon for fans here to pay $100 for a Sailor Moon boxset. I want to own the “S” season and I believe that’s what costs on eBay (the old version, though). I buy my DVDs used and wouldn’t pay more than $25 for any DVD. I recently got xxxholic, season 1, funimation, from eBay, and I paid $25 for it, 24 episodes.
 
Jul 29, 2012
4,098
866
665
I wouldn’t mind paying $25-27 USD for a season of “Sailor Moon,” but each VIZ season is composed of 2 sets.

I don’t care about the manga. I wanted to read it and bought each volume for $1 from a Salvation Army and then donated it back because I don’t have space in my home or in my life for clutter.