What were Saphir's true feelings for Demand?

[Masquerade]

He has an effeminate voice in the original version, he tells Esmeraude he "shares the sames feelings" with her when they are talking about Demand (followed by an awkward stare from Esmeraude that lasts until he shouts "I hate Sailor Moon too!"). And Petz' love for him is unrequited.
To me it's pretty obvious he is a homosexual, at least in the original anime. But I don't know whether he has incestuous feelings for his brother or he was just overall jealous of him.
What do you guys think? If Saphir was actually gay for Demand, I wouldn't be surprised since he was in the same season where Chibiusa kisses her father.

 

[Nadia]

The poll only had two options but I thought he was referring their shared concern over him and his obsessions, even if hers was romantic in nature and his was familial.

And to its credit, Sailor Moon R only had Black Lady kissing her bio dad in a Wiseman-induced illusion.

 

[Masquerade]

The poll only had two options but I thought he was referring their shared concern over him and his obsessions, even if hers was romantic in nature and his was familial.

And to its credit, Sailor Moon R only had Black Lady kissing her bio dad in a Wiseman-induced illusion.

I meant the scene when Chibiusa fell from the sky. Her first appearance.
But even in illusion form, it's inappropriate.

 

[Masquerade]

And I forgot to mention how irritated he seemed whenever Demand demonstrated his interest in Serenity.

 

[JayD22460]

I always thought Saphir and Petz were in a relationship in the past and weren't any longer. But even if you combine not being in a relationship with Petz + an "effeminate voice" + him being very concerned over his brother, that's seriously not enough to make a fair judgment over whether or not someone is a homosexual -- let alone harboring incestuous feelings. Being irritated, for example, could mean anything...like, couldn't it more easily represent Saphir being irritated over Demand being so into Serenity and not focusing on the larger picture?

Weird wisps of homophobia in your wording there...not saying you yourself are, but that reasoning is just quite faulty in so many ways. Nadia already covered the ambiguity of his wording. Innocent question here, but do you know a lot of gay people? Or if you yourself are gay, do you know a lot of *other* gay people?

And of course the Black Lady scene in question is inappropriate -- it's supposed to be inappropriate. The series (in both the 90s anime and the manga, for that matter, in which it's not an illusion) never portrays that instance as something good and positive. It's always portrayed as something gross and awful.

 

[Masquerade]

I always thought Saphir and Petz were in a relationship in the past and weren't any longer. But even if you combine not being in a relationship with Petz + an "effeminate voice" + him being very concerned over his brother, that's seriously not enough to make a fair judgment over whether or not someone is a homosexual -- let alone harboring incestuous feelings. Being irritated, for example, could mean anything...like, couldn't it more easily represent Saphir being irritated over Demand being so into Serenity and not focusing on the larger picture?

Weird wisps of homophobia in your wording there...not saying you yourself are, but that reasoning is just quite faulty in so many ways. Nadia already covered the ambiguity of his wording. Innocent question here, but do you know a lot of gay people? Or if you yourself are gay, do you know a lot of *other* gay people?

And of course the Black Lady scene in question is inappropriate -- it's supposed to be inappropriate. The series (in both the 90s anime and the manga, for that matter, in which it's not an illusion) never portrays that instance as something good and positive. It's always portrayed as something gross and awful.

I'm a gay man myself and I have gay acquaintances.
And you can't blame me when the anime deliberately allowed this interpretation when Esmeraude stared confused for seconds at Saphir and questioned him after he said he shared feelings with her.

 

[Mystical Moonbow]

I honestly didn’t think either of those choices fit with Saphir. I just simply thought that he wished that his brother would listen to him (especially about the Death Phantom), and was just looking after him like a brother would do.

 

[Sabrblade]

Esmeraude's reaction to his statement before his follow through was meant to be a humorous moment for the viewers. It wasn't meant to be read in a serious manner. The writers set that scene up to make an awkward moment that Esmeraude would react to accordingly (because it made Saphir sound both gay and incestuous, which, at that very moment, was meant to be taken in a "Haha, dual gay/incest fakeout joke!" manner that wouldn't fly today) so that the viewers could have a laugh before Saphir would clarify what he meant.

As for the poll options, neither. Saphir's feelings towards his brother were those of loyalty and advisory, on both a familial level to his brother and a political level to his ruling authority of supreme executive power. He would call his brother out on his foolish pursuit of Neo Queen Serenity/Sailor Moon not because of any romantic jealousy he harbored, but because his brother's obsession with NQS/SM interfered with the Black Moon clan's plans for the conquest of Earth and the clan's own survival.

 

[Mosaic]

I honestly don't remember how this scene goes in the Japanese version, but now I guess that explains why DIC changed it to have Sapphire randomly confess feelings for Emerald? haha

 

[Masquerade]

I honestly don't remember how this scene goes in the Japanese version, but now I guess that explains why DIC changed it to have Sapphire randomly confess feelings for Emerald? haha

To make Saphir totally straight and not incestuous

 

[Sabrblade]

Eh, twas a fakeout in the original anyway.

 

[Memelord_Yoshi]

What do you guys think? If Saphir was actually gay for Demand, I wouldn't be surprised since he was in the same season where Chibiusa kisses her father.

Gay.

 

[Tsundereshipper]

He has an effeminate voice in the original version, he tells Esmeraude he "shares the sames feelings" with her when they are talking about Demand (followed by an awkward stare from Esmeraude that lasts until he shouts "I hate Sailor Moon too!"). And Petz' love for him is unrequited.
To me it's pretty obvious he is a homosexual, at least in the original anime. But I don't know whether he has incestuous feelings for his brother or he was just overall jealous of him.
What do you guys think? If Saphir was actually gay for Demand, I wouldn't be surprised since he was in the same season where Chibiusa kisses her father.

I think he did have deeper than brotherly feelings for Demande, it's worth noting that that scene you're talking about was changed in the old dub to him "confessing secret feelings for Emerald" so even DIC felt something was there.

You're also forgetting about this little scene here too:

In which Saphir smiles softly immediately after, naturally this was also cut from the dub.

It's also worth noting that in the Official Japanese media works book for R, Saphir's profile states "A strict man who's sweet only to his brother, he doesn't love anyone else besides Demande."

So yes, I believe it is canon that he has an unrequited love for Demande, or at least semi-canon. You also have to remember that R was the first season that Ikuhara was put in charge, and Ikuhara does love his incestual plot lines and subtext (heck, even Ail and En's relationship could be considered one) so I wouldn't be surprised if this was his doing. Me personally I'm a bit uncomfortable with the incest aspect so even though I still ship them, I like to headcanon that they're not blood-related brothers. (Saphir's feelings here also only really apply to the 90's anime and maybe some of the musicals, there's nothing there at all hinting at anything deeper in the manga and I only ship them in a 90's anime/Musical context myself)

 

[Sabrblade]

There are many forms of love besides romantic/sexual.

 

[Nadia]

I think he did have deeper than brotherly feelings for Demande, it's worth noting that that scene you're talking about was changed in the old dub to him "confessing secret feelings for Emerald" so even DIC felt something was there.

You're also forgetting about this little scene here too:

In which Saphir smiles softly immediately after, naturally this was also cut from the dub.

It's also worth noting that in the Official Japanese media works book for R, Saphir's profile states "A strict man who's sweet only to his brother, he doesn't love anyone else besides Demande."

So yes, I believe it is canon that he has an unrequited love for Demande, or at least semi-canon. You also have to remember that R was the first season that Ikuhara was put in charge, and Ikuhara does love his incestual plot lines and subtext (heck, even Ail and En's relationship could be considered one) so I wouldn't be surprised if this was his doing. Me personally I'm a bit uncomfortable with the incest aspect so even though I still ship them, I like to headcanon that they're not blood-related brothers. (Saphir's feelings here also only really apply to the 90's anime and maybe some of the musicals, there's nothing there at all hinting at anything deeper in the manga and I only ship them in an 90's anime/Musical context myself)

That is one finely animated shot. Then again, them being not blood-related brothers really doesn't do much about the incest aspect, since one of the biggest objections to incest is the whole reproductive factor that wouldn't apply here. If they were raised together it's still icky, in my opinion, and also distracting and redundant given that Demande already has one person interested in him in a romantic way that he ignores. He doesn't need two.

Sato was still in charge for the Makaiju arc of R, though. Maybe we should blame him for starting to turn Sailor Moon into Game of Thrones.

 

[Memento]

If they intended for Saphir to be in love with his brother, why put him in a relationship with Petz?

 

[Slowpokeking]

That is one finely animated shot. Then again, them being not blood-related brothers really doesn't do much about the incest aspect, since one of the biggest objections to incest is the whole reproductive factor that wouldn't apply here. If they were raised together it's still icky, in my opinion, and also distracting and redundant given that Demande already has one person interested in him in a romantic way that he ignores. He doesn't need too.

Sato was still in charge for the Makaiju arc of R, though. Maybe we should blame him for starting to turn Sailor Moon into Game of Thrones.

He went to direct the R movie later, so I think it got little to do with him.

If they intended for Saphir to be in love with his brother, why put him in a relationship with Petz?

I don't think it's love between him and his brother, just very close relationship between bloodlines.

 

[Masquerade]

If they intended for Saphir to be in love with his brother, why put him in a relationship with Petz?

The very same reason Usagi and Rei gazed romantically at each other, while "Eien no Melody" was playing in R and Makoto "admired Haruka as a woman" while blushing at her in S. Fanservice.

 

[Slowpokeking]

Why none of the sisters have a crush on Demande? Koan was into Rubeus and Petz to Saphir.

 

[Star Angel Haruki]

If they intended for Saphir to be in love with his brother, why put him in a relationship with Petz?

I remember watching this relationship spiral into death. It was really sad when he said he'd see her again and she waited in her apartment for him and then.....

I personally think Saphir was jealous of his brother at times.