Would it be better if Demande's obsession on Queen Serenity/Usagi was removed in the anime?

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Slowpokeking

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Apr 1, 2020
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#1
In the manga, Demande was evil and reckless, his obsession over Queen Serenity/Usagi was well explained. It makes perfect sense.

But in the anime, the whole thing was cut because he was a overall a reasonable leader and treats his ppl quite well, just got misled by Wiseman. He was not a womanizer nor does he use his female followers' emotion like Rebeus did. I don't think that abduction was well explained nor does it fit his anime persona very well.
 

Slowpokeking

Lumen Cinererum
Apr 1, 2020
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#5
Oh well, that could have happened to any of the Senshi.
Manga Demande had crush on Queen Serenity not for her beauty, but her cold stare that hurts his arrogant pride. So he decided to conquer her. And ironically, he felt bad because deep down, he knew what he did was wrong and he did admire Queen Serenity's light. It was shown when Usagi tried to fight a seemingly hopeless battle. It makes perfect sense.

But the anime Demande didn't have such a temper, he was seeking peace at first and fought for his ppl's future. The obsession doesn't make too much sense, while I understand that if it was removed, then he would not be convincing as a villain leader.
 
Jun 30, 2010
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#9
In the manga, Demande was evil and reckless, his obsession over Queen Serenity/Usagi was well explained. It makes perfect sense.

But in the anime, the whole thing was cut because he was a overall a reasonable leader and treats his ppl quite well, just got misled by Wiseman. He was not a womanizer nor does he use his female followers' emotion like Rebeus did. I don't think that abduction was well explained nor does it fit his anime persona very well.
It seems off because the backstory for Nemesis was both changed and cut. Since the people of Nemesis were now the descendants of people who fled there instead of just rebels, then the connection between Demande and Serenity is now indirect.

Still, I think the crush fits. Demande was obsessed with waging war on the Earth in both his present (30th century) and his past (20th century). It would be easy for Wiseman to twist Demande's desire for peace and admiration of Neo-Queen Serenity into a bitter need to dominate her and get revenge for the exile and the Black Moon Clan's lack of peace in the first place, Sure, he treats his "family" well, and yet his enemy is so sweet and angelic...so what better way for him to reconcile these two impulses than to make Neo-Queen Serenity..."part of the family."
 
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Slowpokeking

Lumen Cinererum
Apr 1, 2020
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#10
It seems off because the backstory for Nemesis was both changed and cut. Since the people of Nemesis were now the descendants of people who fled there instead of just rebels, then the connection between Demande and Serenity is now indirect.

Still, I think the crush fits. Demande was obsessed waging war on the Earth in both the present and his past. It would be easy for Wiseman to twist Demande's desire for peace and admiration of Neo-Queen Serenity into a bitter need to dominate her and get revenge for the exile and the Black Moon Clan's lack of peace in the first place, Sure, he treats his "family" well, and yet his enemy is so sweet and angelic...so what better way for him to reconcile these two impulses than to make Neo-Queen Serenity..."part of the family."
Demande's entire character was also changed, from a short tempered maniac to a much more reasonable leader.

He didn't have any interest in the other senshi at all, like I said he was not a womanizer. He didn't have much in common with the queen nor Usagi. So I really felt it to be very forced. If there is anyone he would have interest on both the looks and the personality, Michiru probably is the best option but not sure was she in the future or not.
 
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#11
Demande's entire character was also changed, from a short tempered maniac to a much more reasonable leader.
That just makes his crush on Neo-Queen Serenity disturbing in a different way.

In the manga he is a obvious utter creep who is also clearly immature, so the danger in Usagi being brought to their base is overt. There's no way to read anything romantic into it.

By contrast, the anime makes his character more noble, refined, and mature. He is the type of guy many viewers would like our heroine to fall for if Mamoru were not around. Instead of being solely terrified, there is a fear of Usagi losing herself to him by being manipulated to surrender.

However, that is what makes anime Demande even troubling to some viewers (note, not me) than his manga counterpart. In R, he's all the things the society says what girls want and though he's evil, he's fair with his subordinates and loving towards his brother. He fills all the criteria for a fine "catch." At the end of the day, though, he's willing to mind control a 14-year old girl, knowing she's a minor, no less, into becoming his "doll" as a stand-in for the woman he can't have. It's also done in a way to gaslight Usagi (and to an extent, the viewers) into thinking that she is his love and his interest in her is a test of what love is.

Demande goes to show that controlling, abusive men are wrapped up in pretty packages, and unfortunately, this is far more true in real life than the manga is.
 
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Slowpokeking

Lumen Cinererum
Apr 1, 2020
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#12
That just makes his crush on Neo-Queen Serenity disturbing in a different way.

In the manga he is a obvious utter creep who is also clearly immature, so the danger in Usagi being brought to their base is overt. There's no way to read anything romantic into it.

By contrast, the anime makes his character more noble, refined, and mature. He is the type of guy many viewers would like our heroine to fall for if Mamoru were not around. Instead of being solely terrified, there is a fear of Usagi losing herself to him by being manipulated to surrender.

However, that is what makes anime Demande even troubling to some viewers (note, not me) than his manga counterpart. In R, he's all the things the society says what girls want and though he's evil, he's fair with his subordinates and loving towards his brother. He fills all the criteria for a fine "catch." At the end of the day, though, he's willing to mind control a 14-year old girl, knowing she's a minor, no less, into becoming his "doll" as a stand-in for the woman he can't have. It's also done in a way to gaslight Usagi (and to an extent, the viewers) into thinking that she is his love and his interest in here is a test of what love is.

Demande goes to show that controlling, abusive men are wrapped up in pretty packages, and unfortunately, this is far more true in real life than the manga is.
I don't think he was wrapped up in pretty packages, the character was overall fine on the inside, not a disguise. He even regretted for his wrongdoing on Usagi in the end.

So I think it's kind of unnecessary without more plot to explain his former intereaction with Queen Serenity.
 
Jun 17, 2019
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#16
In the manga, Demande was evil and reckless, his obsession over Queen Serenity/Usagi was well explained. It makes perfect sense.

But in the anime, the whole thing was cut because he was a overall a reasonable leader and treats his ppl quite well, just got misled by Wiseman. He was not a womanizer nor does he use his female followers' emotion like Rebeus did. I don't think that abduction was well explained nor does it fit his anime persona very well.
Well I'm obviously biased considering I ship Demande/Saphir in the anime and Demande/Usagi was always a major NOTP of mine so I I'm uncomfortable seeing them together in any version but I don't think removing it is the right choice either. Demande's perverse obsession with Usagi is such a fundamental part of his character that it just wouldn't feel like "him" anymore if you removed it, yes even in the toned-down anime.

Anyways I always got the sense that unlike in the Manga and Crystal where Demande truly did see Serenity as nothing but a conquest to conquer, in the anime and musicals he only got so fixated on her after that glare she gave him because it triggered his insecurities about himself and he was determined to prove to this all-mighty Goddess that he was worth something, and was just as much as a human deserving of love as she and the rest of the Earthlings. You have to remember that in the 90's anime, and especially the old Musical's continuity, the BMC were an oppressed group of people and almost considered another race, their ancestors were literally banished to a whole other planet just because they refused the Silver Crystal's cleansing. Now why would they even need to be "cleansed" in the first place? (Especially since the whole 1000 year life-span granted by the Silver Crystal doesn't exist in the anime's continuity) Well I like to headcanon it's because they're descendants of those with Youkai or Demon blood, it would explain why they all seem to have inherent magical abilities and Demande even has that 3rd eye and such (Koan herself also resembles a Nekomata Cat demon) How would they even be able to have such supernatural powers and abilities if they truly were just the descendants of ordinary human beings from Earth? And you can't say that living for dozens of generations on a foreign planet like Nemesis imbued them with those powers, I'm sorry but genetic drift doesn't work that way.

The anime never makes mention of them being given those powers by Wiseman and the Dark Crystal like the manga does, so my theory is that the "cleansing" NQS forced their ancestors to go through was to rid them of their Yokai blood and turn them fully human, naturally they viewed it as discriminatory and refused and the populace had begun to grow fearful so NQS had no choice but to send them away.

I like to think most of Anime and Musical Demande's obsession with Serenity stems from this inferiority complex. He and his people are already viewed as monsters, so seeing that viewpoint being reflected in the eyes of one that's supposed to be the paragon of purity herself probably triggered something in him and made him want to force Serenity's eyes to see him as a man rather than a monster, perhaps he felt that would be his own personal "cleansing." Remember also in the musicals Demande seems to be particularly obsessed with purity, so much so that he even has his very own song centered around it, "Innocent Demand!" His obsession with winning Serenity's love simply stems from a desire of validation and acceptance over what he perceives to be his clean, inhuman self so I think in that sense his obsession with her still makes sense even within the anime, it's just given a different context compared to the source of his obsession in the manga, a "purer" motivation if you would.

Plus I'm pretty sure the "R" in the season stands for "Romance" so it would still make sense for Demande to be obsessed with Sailor Moon in the anime, if you really think about it the entirety of the season is focused on the dilemma of romantic triangles. You have Ail and En that are a couple but are crushing on both Usagi and Mamoru respectively, (yes I know that was just a filler arc but it's canon at least to the anime's continuity so it counts) Koan harbors an unrequited love for Rubeus while Petz has one for Saphir, Esmeraude is crushing hard on Demande and it's heavily implied Saphir has more than brotherly feelings for him too, Usagi and Mamoru have that whole Break-Up arc drama etc, so why shouldn't Demande be obsessed with the Queen here? This is pretty much the season for dealing with romance, so it fits thematically.

One last thing though...

"Demande doesn't have a temper in the 90's anime"
This is flat-out untrue, he might be not be as ruthless as he is in the Manga & Crystal and quote-unquote "a better person", but he's still just as temperamental and reckless as ever in the anime. He loses his cool and strikes Saphir in anger twice and we even see him get angry at Wiseman a couple of times (the scenes where purple energy is building up behind him, that's supposed to be an indicator he's about to lose his cool). He also shakes Sailor Moon hard the 2nd time she resists his hypnosis and refuses to submit. He's not some perfect Prince Charming even in the anime, not even close.
 
Apr 1, 2020
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#17
Well I'm obviously biased considering I ship Demande/Saphir in the anime and Demande/Usagi was always a major NOTP of mine so I I'm uncomfortable seeing them together in any version but I don't think removing it is the right choice either. Demande's perverse obsession with Usagi is such a fundamental part of his character that it just wouldn't feel like "him" anymore if you removed it, yes even in the toned-down anime.

Anyways I always got the sense that unlike in the Manga and Crystal where Demande truly did see Serenity as nothing but a conquest to conquer, in the anime and musicals he only got so fixated on her after that glare she gave him because it triggered his insecurities about himself and he was determined to prove to this all-mighty Goddess that he was worth something, and was just as much as a human deserving of love as she and the rest of the Earthlings. You have to remember that in the 90's anime, and especially the old Musical's continuity, the BMC were an oppressed group of people and almost considered another race, their ancestors were literally banished to a whole other planet just because they refused the Silver Crystal's cleansing. Now why would they even need to be "cleansed" in the first place? (Especially since the whole 1000 year life-span granted by the Silver Crystal doesn't exist in the anime's continuity) Well I like to headcanon it's because they're descendants of those with Youkai or Demon blood, it would explain why they all seem to have inherent magical abilities and Demande even has that 3rd eye and such (Koan herself also resembles a Nekomata Cat demon) How would they even be able to have such supernatural powers and abilities if they truly were just the descendants of ordinary human beings from Earth? And you can't say that living for dozens of generations on a foreign planet like Nemesis imbued them with those powers, I'm sorry but genetic drift doesn't work that way.

The anime never makes mention of them being given those powers by Wiseman and the Dark Crystal like the manga does, so my theory is that the "cleansing" NQS forced their ancestors to go through was to rid them of their Yokai blood and turn them fully human, naturally they viewed it as discriminatory and refused and the populace had begun to grow fearful so NQS had no choice but to send them away.

I like to think most of Anime and Musical Demande's obsession with Serenity stems from this inferiority complex. He and his people are already viewed as monsters, so seeing that viewpoint being reflected in the eyes of one that's supposed to be the paragon of purity herself probably triggered something in him and made him want to force Serenity's eyes to see him as a man rather than a monster, perhaps he felt that would be his own personal "cleansing." Remember also in the musicals Demande seems to be particularly obsessed with purity, so much so that he even has his very own song centered around it, "Innocent Demand!" His obsession with winning Serenity's love simply stems from a desire of validation and acceptance over what he perceives to be his clean, inhuman self so I think in that sense his obsession with her still makes sense even within the anime, it's just given a different context compared to the source of his obsession in the manga, a "purer" motivation if you would.

Plus I'm pretty sure the "R" in the season stands for "Romance" so it would still make sense for Demande to be obsessed with Sailor Moon in the anime, if you really think about it the entirety of the season is focused on the dilemma of romantic triangles. You have Ail and En that are a couple but are crushing on both Usagi and Mamoru respectively, (yes I know that was just a filler arc but it's canon at least to the anime's continuity so it counts) Koan harbors an unrequited love for Rubeus while Petz has one for Saphir, Esmeraude is crushing hard on Demande and it's heavily implied Saphir has more than brotherly feelings for him too, Usagi and Mamoru have that whole Break-Up arc drama etc, so why shouldn't Demande be obsessed with the Queen here? This is pretty much the season for dealing with romance, so it fits thematically.

One last thing though...



This is flat-out untrue, he might be not be as ruthless as he is in the Manga & Crystal and quote-unquote "a better person", but he's still just as temperamental and reckless as ever in the anime. He loses his cool and strikes Saphir in anger twice and we even see him get angry at Wiseman a couple of times (the scenes where purple energy is building up behind him, that's supposed to be an indicator he's about to lose his cool). He also shakes Sailor Moon hard the 2nd time she resists his hypnosis and refuses to submit. He's not some perfect Prince Charming even in the anime, not even close.
The thing is that they never had any previous encounter to show how did his view on her form up.

True, I never think Demande/Usagi works, the only senshi who would have common language with him is Michiru.
 
Jun 17, 2019
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#18
The thing is that they never had any previous encounter to show how did his view on her form up.

True, I never think Demande/Usagi works, the only senshi who would have common language with him is Michiru.
??? How would Michiru of all people have anything in common with Demande? First of all she's most likely a lesbian, secondly she's pretty much Demande's complete opposite since she's cool, calm, collected, refined, shrewd and intelligent while Demande is short-tempered, reckless, naive, and let's be honest, a total [BLEEP]ing idiot. (At least in the anime)
 
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Apr 1, 2020
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#19
??? How would Michiru of all people have anything in common with Demande? First of all she's most likely a lesbian, secondly she's pretty much Demande's complete opposite since she's cool, calm, collected, refined, shrewd and intelligent while Demande is short-tempered, reckless, naive, and let's be honest, a total [BLEEP]ing idiot. (At least in the anime)
Anime Demande was not really reckless nor was he short-tempered overall. He even could put off Saphir's death for the big picture first. Same thing happened several times before.

The more accurate point is that he was willing to sacrifice anyone or use ruthless method for BMC ppl's future, his "greater good". Michiru is the same, that she would use any method, even if it was dark (killing Hotaru and Talisman's owner) for the "greater good" and dislike the Inner's "soft way". Both of them are overconfident of themselves and turned out to be their weakness, caused them to fail as well.
 
Jun 17, 2019
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#20
Anime Demande was not really reckless nor was he short-tempered overall. He even could put off Saphir's death for the big picture first. Same thing happened several times before.

The more accurate point is that he was willing to sacrifice anyone or use ruthless method for BMC ppl's future, his "greater good". Michiru is the same, that she would use any method, even if it was dark (killing Hotaru and Talisman's owner) for the "greater good" and dislike the Inner's "soft way". Both of them are overconfident of themselves and turned out to be their weakness, caused them to fail as well.
The fact that he was willing to blindly place his trust in a suspicious looking, spooky old fortune teller skeleton and it only took his brother's death to even begin questioning him, is the very definition of reckless. He also rushed headfirst into capturing Sailor Moon and was placing getting her above all else, even to the detriment of their original mission. Take for example his first attempt at capturing her, he had Chibi-Usa, the Rabbit they'd been searching for all along right there and yet he's most focused on just getting Sailor Moon, completely ignoring her and allowing her to fall back into Tuxedo Mask's arms.

He also had the Silver Crystal right there in the palm of his hand yet it never crossed his mind to take it himself and place it somewhere for safe-keeping? Why did he just let Usagi continue to hold on to it? Oh yeah because he was so damn obsessed that he wasn't thinking straight and couldn't focus on anything besides the girl right in front of him. Michiru would never allowed herself to lose sight over the main objective or get that distracted.
 
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