Would it be better off if there were no Crystal?

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SILVER

Aurorae Lunares
Jan 7, 2014
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Dark Kingdom
#21
Animefan said:
Yamoon said:
Do we really need AGAIN a topic BASHING about Crystal. If you don't like the serie, just DO NOT WATCH IT.
Oh I am not bashing. I just want this thread to make you guys think and reflect. Given the mountain of criticism directed at Crystal, maybe I need something to get that negativity out of your system once and for all. Make you look deep down. ;)
The condescension/trolling is lame and sad
 

Seira Hazuki

Solaris Luna
Jan 17, 2007
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#22
I think Crystal is fine as long as it doesn't flop to the point of damaging the franchise's ability to continue on. Like someone else mentioned, it's not my favorite adaptation (even though I really like Season 3), but as long as it's not the last Sailor Moon anime we ever get, I'm more than happy.
 

Animefan

Luna Crescens
Jun 25, 2015
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#23
SILVER said:
Animefan said:
Yamoon said:
Do we really need AGAIN a topic BASHING about Crystal. If you don't like the serie, just DO NOT WATCH IT.
Oh I am not bashing. I just want this thread to make you guys think and reflect. Given the mountain of criticism directed at Crystal, maybe I need something to get that negativity out of your system once and for all. Make you look deep down. ;)
The condescension/trolling is lame and sad
I'm not trolling, honest. I am trying to make you guys think and reflect deeply on the value of Crystal.
 
Jul 31, 2012
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Outer Space
www.facebook.com
#24
I think Crystal did what was needed. Rekindle the spark of interest in SM merchandise world. Most folks identify with the anime and so it was only natural for the merchandise to get a flurry of sales again. To be honest, Crystal is flawed, just like some of the other incarnations of the series but I think it is also an interesting addition to the family. Though it will be no where near as well structured as the PGSM (or even the 90s anime) series. It did do some things right and satisfy some fans need for panel to animation fantasies. However, it failed other fans by taking a fast rushed story and keeping it nearly intact without any improvements. SMC could have been the marking point of a new breath of life for the SM saga but instead, comes off like something unsure if it's appeal is still strong.

Granted S3 improved on the franchise, you can clearly see that the mangas issues bleed into the anime and with Toei's ways of cutting corners, expectations shouldn't be too high.

I will say that I am proud that Naoko is still smiling and treasuring SM and drawing it. I can only hope that she dumps Toei and goes to another animation studio. (Realistically, I know this will never happen.)
 
Sep 17, 2014
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Eternity
#25
Maraviollantes said:
Yamoon said:
Do we really need AGAIN a topic BASHING about Crystal.
We have been bashing SuperS, DiC, and Chibiusa for two decades, and still can't get over it. Do you really think we can give up on bashing Crystal that easily? :creeper:
Except none of those three maligned most of the time just for the sake of nastiness.
 

Black_Chaos

Solaris Luna
Jul 23, 2014
2,608
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#26
Sailor Starlight said:
Animefan said:
Would it be better off if there were no Crystal at all?
Yes! SMC has damaged the Sailor Moon brand and tarnished its reputation irreparably.
You can blame 90's elitists and all those attention seeking social media accounts that nit picked every single frame for the spread of hate.

Some Sailor Moon fans need to get over themselves. Crystal is an abridged manga adaption which some of us (like myself) welcome with open arms.
I like that it gave us new music, a new art style and a way for newer fans to experience most of the manga's story.
Bashing Crystal and poisoning it's reputation because it wasn't a 90's anime clone filler-fest is ridiculous.
If I were Naoko I wouldn't give the fans anything after Crystal.
 

MementoNepenthe

Systema Solare
Mar 8, 2012
5,078
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#27
Black_Chaos said:
You can blame 90's elitists and all those attention seeking social media accounts that nit picked every single frame for the spread of hate.
Yes, blame the fans for wanting a show of quality and not settling for junk as opposed to blaming the studio that created such a mediocre series. Maybe if they hadn't promised an amazing, beautiful, mature series prompted by all the advances in animation technology only to deliver a series that was, at best, on par with Scooby-Doo, Where Are You - a nearly 50 year old, hand drawn, low budget cartoon - fans wouldn't have felt compelled to "nit pick every single frame."

If you personally enjoy Crystal, that's cool. But that doesn't negate other fans' very legitimate criticisms of it, and it's tacky to dismiss that as ~90s fans being whiny~

I'd much rather have had Naoko colorize the manga than have Toei churn out the lifeless joke of an adaptation that Crystal seasons I and II were. Season III was a step in the right direction, but they were still inexcusably lazy. I hope that seasons IV and V, should they be made, get entrusted to people who actually give a damn.
 
#28
I'm leaning towards "no", and that's mainly because Crystal did spark a new interest in merch. Also Crystal was a new addition to the franchise. As Haruki pointed out, Crystal has its flaws, as do all the other incarnations.

I like Crystal, but the animation could have been better.
 

Black_Chaos

Solaris Luna
Jul 23, 2014
2,608
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#29
MementoNepenthe said:
Black_Chaos said:
You can blame 90's elitists and all those attention seeking social media accounts that nit picked every single frame for the spread of hate.
Yes, blame the fans for wanting a show of quality and not settling for junk as opposed to blaming the studio that created such a mediocre series. Maybe if they hadn't promised an amazing, beautiful, mature series prompted by all the advances in animation technology only to deliver a series that was, at best, on par with Scooby-Doo, Where Are You - a nearly 50 year old, hand drawn, low budget cartoon - fans wouldn't have felt compelled to "nit pick every single frame."

If you personally enjoy Crystal, that's cool. But that doesn't negate other fans' very legitimate criticisms of it, and it's tacky to dismiss that as ~90s fans being whiny~

I'd much rather have had Naoko colorize the manga than have Toei churn out the lifeless joke of an adaptation that Crystal seasons I and II were. Season III was a step in the right direction, but they were still inexcusably lazy. I hope that seasons IV and V, should they be made, get entrusted to people who actually give a ☹.
The series is far from mediocre , the manga tells a great story that we now get to see animated and brought along new music and merchandise amongst other things . I don't like the changes to Dark Kingdom or the fact that they had to cut scenes for time but there's not much they can do about the latter when they're limited by the time slot . The show isn't the most gorgeous AAA show out there but it's far from garbage . There are some bad frames , and questionable proportions but when watching it in real time did you really notice them and was that alone really enough to take you out of the experience ? When you watch a show do you seriously watch it one frame at a time or hunt for every single error possible ?

My 90's elitist comments stem from the fact that time and time again I read how some "fans" whine that Crystal isn't "like the 90's anime , doesn't have abunch of filler , doesn't re-use the old music , etc.) I find that hating a "reboot" for not copying off the old is idiotic . If you want filler and the old music then go watch the old series .

Season 3 came out well even though I liked the original art style better , and really Black Moon was pretty good , most of the issues seem to center on Dark Kingdom . They obviously have improved things as the series continues , plus there's seemingly going to be a decent gap between Infinity and Dream so Dream should look fine . Not supporting Crystal isn't going to help the show improve or make Toei want to give us more content .
 
May 31, 2009
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Tankei Kingdom, Kinmoku
#30
MementoNepenthe said:
But that doesn't negate other fans' very legitimate criticisms of it, and it's tacky to dismiss that as ~90s fans being whiny~. I'd much rather have had Naoko colorize the manga than have Toei churn out the lifeless joke of an adaptation that Crystal seasons I and II were. Season III was a step in the right direction, but they were still inexcusably lazy.
:toast:

Black_Chaos said:
You can blame 90's elitists and all those attention seeking social media accounts that nit picked every single frame for the spread of hate.
No, I blame a cheap anime studio that delivered a mess of a show with abysmal production values. I don't blame the fans who pointed out the truth.

Black_Chaos said:
My 90's elitist comments stem from the fact that time and time again I read how some "fans" whine that Crystal isn't "like the 90's anime , doesn't have a bunch of filler, doesn't re-use the old music , etc.) I find that hating a "reboot" for not copying off the old is idiotic . If you want filler and the old music then go watch the old series.
Except people didn't criticize Crystal because it didn't resemble the '90s anime. They did so because it's an awful show that fails all on its own. No comparisons needed. PGSM is nothing like the '90s anime and the same people loved that adaptation.

Black_Chaos said:
Some Sailor Moon fans need to get over themselves.
Well, at least we agree on something. :mischief:

Black_Chaos said:
If I were Naoko I wouldn't give the fans anything after Crystal.
Fingers crossed! :P
 

Black_Chaos

Solaris Luna
Jul 23, 2014
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#31
Sailor Starlight said:
Black_Chaos said:
My 90's elitist comments stem from the fact that time and time again I read how some "fans" whine that Crystal isn't "like the 90's anime , doesn't have a bunch of filler, doesn't re-use the old music , etc.) I find that hating a "reboot" for not copying off the old is idiotic . If you want filler and the old music then go watch the old series.
Except people didn't criticize Crystal because it didn't resemble the 90s anime. They did so because it's an awful show that fails all on its own. No comparisons needed. PGSM is nothing like the 90s anime and the same people loved that adaptation.
You must not be on any sort of social media platform or read this forum at all . I've read countless times that one of the reasons "fans" dislike Crystal is because it didn't re-use old music or folow the 90's formula , and has a different art style .

Again the hate over the animation errors are for the most part very nit picky . It had an admittedly rocky start but straightened out and is giving us an abridged manga adaption with visual improvements as the series goes onward .
 

Black_Chaos

Solaris Luna
Jul 23, 2014
2,608
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#36
My mistake .

The results for "Sailor Moon Crystal is bad" are hilarious . Some of these complaints are so nit picky it's making me actually laugh .
 

ChibiBoi

Aurorae Lunares
Jan 2, 2010
1,196
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#37
Sailor Starlight said:
ChibiBoi said:
Sailor moon Crystal is its own entity. It didn't harm the franchise at all.
This is from today's Google Instant. Just saying. :P
Just because people think Crystal is bad, doesn't mean it harmed the franchise. It's generating revenue not only for Crystal but for the original series and manga as well. I mean, I've always thought PGSM and Sera Myu were awful, but it doesn't mean they've damaged the reputation of Sailor Moon. They're separate incarnations and fans can choose what they want or don't want to watch. What's important is Crystal is generating buzz that's helping keep Sailor Moon relevant.

Besides, people thought the original sailor moon was bad too.
 
Nov 3, 2015
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#38
Yes and no.
Yes, because I feel like they could have used the money for more PGSM. And also I feel like we should let the series rest. A good story is a good story, but I think it's overkill to constantly rehash it. I like the merch that comes with it, but I don't like to put a whole lot of value on things that don't have an actual function. I almost feel like I genuinely wasted my time trying to give the first 2 arcs of crystal a chance. I know people want others to know Sailor Moon existed, but there is always going to be the new generation that has their own stories. I mean, most people here haven't read Candy Candy, despite that being a huge influence in Naoko's works and a very popular shoujo series in the 70's.

No, because the last season was decent. I am interested to see what they do with the story.
 

MementoNepenthe

Systema Solare
Mar 8, 2012
5,078
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#39
Black_Chaos said:
The series is far from mediocre, the manga tells a great story that we now get to see animated, and brought along new music and merchandise among other things.
I agree that the manga tells a great story, but I disagree that we now get to see it animated when Crystal has completely butchered it, at least the first two arcs, by cutting scenes/characters, removing humor and characterization, making heinously stupid changes, and being little more than "A Really Bad Redraw of the Manga: A PowerPoint Presentation" at times.

As for new merchandise, that started with the 20th Anniversary celebration (which is still going on...four years later :lol: ) In fact, most of the new merchandise has used 90s anime artwork in its promotion/design. There hasn't been all that much in terms of Crystal-specific merchandise, and most of that has either been food or bizarre (a robotic vacuum cleaner, tampons, etc).

I will agree with you on the new music, though; that has been fantastic.

Black_Chaos said:
There are some bad frames , and questionable proportions but when watching it in real time did you really notice them and was that alone really enough to take you out of the experience? When you watch a show do you seriously watch it one frame at a time or hunt for every single error possible?
To answer your first question: YES. Because there weren't "some" bad frames, there were HUNDREDS of them. And they weren't "blink and you'll miss it" either; they stayed on-screen for long periods of time. I didn't have to hunt for errors; they were there for all to see, plain as Mars's broken anatomy.

Black_Chaos said:
My 90's elitist comments stem from the fact that time and time again I read how some "fans" whine that Crystal isn't "like the 90's anime, doesn't have a bunch of filler, doesn't re-use the old music , etc.)
I think 90's fans are disappointed that Crystal hasn't played, for instance, Moonlight Densetsu, but because they think that would be an appropriate throwback/homage. However, I haven't seen more than a couple of fans seriously hate on Crystal for that. Similarly, some fans wished Crystal used the 90's character designs, not because they were against new designs, but because they didn't like what Crystal came up with and, liking the original designs, would naturally have preferred their reuse. (Not unlike certain Crystal fans wishing the seasons I and II designs were still being used instead of the season III designs, but apparently only Crystal fans are allowed to be unhappy with changes.) As for filler, that has nothing to do with the 90's anime; it's a valid criticism of Crystal that it needed more episodes to flesh out the plot and characters and fix its pacing issues. Even if the 90's anime didn't exist, people would still be saying Crystal needs more "filler" episodes.


Black_Chaos said:
Season 3 came out well even though I liked the original art style better, and really Black Moon was pretty good, most of the issues seem to center on Dark Kingdom. They obviously have improved things as the series continues, plus there's seemingly going to be a decent gap between Infinity and Dream so Dream should look fine. Not supporting Crystal isn't going to help the show improve or make Toei want to give us more content.
There was a big gap between Black Moon and Infinity yet the animation was still mediocre, they recycled footage like never before, and didn't even attempt to improve things for the BD, so barring some major staff changes, I'm not gonna hold my breath for Dream looking any better. As for not supporting Crystal, where did I say that? I bought the Mook, I bought the Soundtrack, and I've bought a bunch of 20th Anniversary merchandise. Toei/Kodansha/PNP have gotten a TON of my money over the years, so I'm well and truly entitled to complain.
 
Aug 16, 2014
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USA
#40
ChibiBoi said:
Sailor Starlight said:
ChibiBoi said:
Sailor moon Crystal is its own entity. It didn't harm the franchise at all.
This is from today's Google Instant. Just saying. :P
Just because people think Crystal is bad, doesn't mean it harmed the franchise. It's generating revenue not only for Crystal but for the original series and manga as well. I mean, I've always thought PGSM and Sera Myu were awful, but it doesn't mean they've damaged the reputation of Sailor Moon. They're separate incarnations and fans can choose what they want or don't want to watch. What's important is Crystal is generating buzz that's helping keep Sailor Moon relevant.

Besides, people thought the original sailor moon was bad too.
Exactly , just because some people don't like something . Dosen't mean it ruin th e franchise, there people who like Crystal still . And some who like it better than sailor moon. Who came into sailor moon franchise, Crystal is doing its purpose . Bring more fans ito the fran cise . So no I think Crystal is doing great for the franchise .
 
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