Would you say Sailor Moon is a franchise that has aged well?

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Sep 6, 2014
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#2
Honestly no not really.

I was never as fond of Takeuchi’s artwork and designs as a lot of other fans seem to be. (I remember seeing a fansite call the artwork gorgeous before I read the manga and was very disappointed when I finally read the manga) and the lay out of panels and what not seemed to be a mess.

The character designs for the 90s anime anime are more than sufficient and at times the animation holds up rather nicely (more so the 3 movies and SuperS) but the animation is overall very cheap with over reliance on stock footage and repeating animation over and over and other obvious cutting corners.

And of course the anime relies very strictly on formula (especially S onwards) and the manga has some very flat characters and a lot of wish fulfillment writing.
 
Aug 2, 2012
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#3
Honestly no not really.

I was never as fond of Takeuchi’s artwork and designs as a lot of other fans seem to be. (I remember seeing a fansite call the artwork gorgeous before I read the manga and was very disappointed when I finally read the manga) and the lay out of panels and what not seemed to be a mess.

The character designs for the 90s anime anime are more than sufficient and at times the animation holds up rather nicely (more so the 3 movies and SuperS) but the animation is overall very cheap with over reliance on stock footage and repeating animation over and over and other obvious cutting corners.

And of course the anime relies very strictly on formula (especially S onwards) and the manga has some very flat characters and a lot of wish fulfillment writing.
What exactly do you mean by character designs? The way they look and dress in their civilian form and their senshi costumes?
 
Sep 6, 2014
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#5
What exactly do you mean by character designs? The way they look and dress in their civilian form and their senshi costumes?
The way the characters are drawn yes.

Has Dragon Ball/Z aged better for instance?
In some ways yes, in some ways no.

It’s pretty obvious Dragon Ball has retained a much more dedicated and larger fanbase than Sailor Moon. You could attribute that to “girls will watch things meant for guys but guys are far less likely to watch things intended for guys and get shamed when they do”

One thing that hasn’t aged well in Dragon Ball, particularly early Dragon Ball, was the sexual humor. Lecherous sexual predators are played for comedy in a series meant for grade school boys, sexual harassment towards women is treated as not a big deal. Thankfully this was mostly phased out after the second arc and all but gone by the time of the Piccolo Daimao arc (i.e when the series moved from a gag series to a more serious but still comedic action series)

Sailor Moon has its own problems, to be sure, but nothing that would make me think “this is not okay”

Dragon Ball Z suffers from legendarily terrible pacing. Particularly the Namek arc and specifically the big showdown that takes about 22 episodes or the run of an average network television season in the US. That was really only a problem in Z. It’s not a problem in the other 3 series, or the manga or Z’s recut Kai. (Albeit Kai has its own problems)

I will add Dragon Ball Z’s terrible pacing seems par for the course for long running anime aimed at young boys

Conversely Sailor Moon has a manga that moves too fast but the anime is paced fairly well.
 
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MementoNepenthe

Aurorae Lunares
Mar 8, 2012
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#6
I think the manga has probably aged the best, but it still has a lot of problematic elements that mark it as a product of its time. If Naoko were willing to do a truly extensive revision (either by herself or by a team under her supervision), I think the manga could become pretty much perfect, but that's never going to happen.

The live action series is, in my opinion, the next best aged iteration. Obviously the terrible CG and early 2000s clothes date the series a fair amount, but it has the best writing (apart, maybe, from its kind of lackluster, rushed finale) and doesn't really have any problematic elements apart from Usagi and Mamoru's still having a kind of questionable age gap.

Crystal was pretty much dead on arrival. I think the first episode was solid, the series peaked with the flawless fifth episode, and the third season was at least watchable, but on the whole the series has been so incompetently managed and has brought absolutely nothing original to the table except some memes at its own expense that it will go down as a footnote and not as the definitive version of the series it was originally promised to be.

The 90s anime has aged all right, but it has probably the most problematic elements and I think a lot of the animation and music look and sound very dated now.

The Bandai musicals are extremely dated (dated music, though some pieces are still great; dated wigs and costuming; dated writing, though at least a lot of the plots were inventive; and the recordings themselves are literally dated because of the technology used to record them and the quality of the home releases).

The Nelke musicals have been much higher quality (especially the NogiMyu), but they still have their flaws. However, I think they'll age pretty well and, assuming they continue which seems to be the plan, they'll only get better and better. Musicals have been Sailor Moon's most reliable form, so I think the powers that be would be wise to invest more in them and craft a truly timeless musical adaptation that can run around the world indefinitely.
 
Aug 2, 2012
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#7
The way the characters are drawn yes.



In some ways yes, in some ways no.

It’s pretty obvious Dragon Ball has retained a much more dedicated and larger fanbase than Sailor Moon. You could attribute that to “girls will watch things meant for guys but guys are far less likely to watch things intended for guys and get shamed when they do”

One thing that hasn’t aged well in Dragon Ball, particularly early Dragon Ball, was the sexual humor. Lecherous sexual predators are played for comedy in a series meant for grade school boys, sexual harassment towards women is treated as not a big deal. Thankfully this was mostly phased out after the second arc and all but gone by the time of the Piccolo Daimao arc (i.e when the series moved from a gag series to a more serious but still comedic action series)

Sailor Moon has its own problems, to be sure, but nothing that would make me think “this is not okay”

Dragon Ball Z suffers from legendarily terrible pacing. Particularly the Namek arc and specifically the big showdown that takes about 22 episodes or the run of an average network television season in the US. That was really only a problem in Z. It’s not a problem in the other 3 series, or the manga or Z’s recut Kai. (Albeit Kai has its own problems)

I will add Dragon Ball Z’s terrible pacing seems par for the course for long running anime aimed at young boys

Conversely Sailor Moon has a manga that moves too fast but the anime is paced fairly well.
Really?? To me they've always seemed more or less equal when it comes to this....even if DB has the edge it by no means seem to have 'a much more dedicated and larger fanbase' despite the 'issue' of things intended for girls vs things intended for guys.
 
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Sep 6, 2014
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#8
The live action series is, in my opinion, the next best aged iteration. Obviously the terrible CG and early 2000s clothes date the series a fair amount, but it has the best writing (apart, maybe, from its kind of lackluster, rushed finale) and doesn't really have any problematic elements apart from Usagi and Mamoru's still having a kind of questionable age gap.
I just want to say the costuming and cg was cheap in 2004. It looks even worse now. The Tokusatsu series strongest point was the character writing. Hell easily my favorite versions of Usagi and Ami.

Crystal was pretty much dead on arrival. I think the first episode was solid, the series peaked with the flawless fifth episode, and the third season was at least watchable, but on the whole the series has been so incompetently managed and has brought absolutely nothing original to the table except some memes at its own expense that it will go down as a footnote and not as the definitive version of the series it was originally promised to be.
It managed to be “what if the manga sucked?!?”


The 90s anime has aged all right, but it has probably the most problematic elements
While it has problematic elements for sure (namely the main character is homophobic not neo nazi breitbart straight pride parade homophobic but ewww guys kissing, girls are suppose to date boys not girls homophobic)
but I would argue Crystal is way more problematic for dressing itself up as a feminist series while being the most sexist piece of trite to come from Sailor Moon. If 90s Sailor Moon is Renaissance Disney era when it comes to “strong female characters” Crystal is Golden era Disney from the 30s-50s

90s Sailor Moon was clearly a product of its time. And no that’s not an excuse. Crystal is already dated.


and I think a lot of the animation and music look and sound very dated now.
You could make the argument that the music was always dated. This was the reason most fans of the Bob Summers score cite their preference for DiC’s replacement music. And that was kind of the intent. The composer was deliberately invoking 70s Hollywood namely Charlie’s Angels (heck there’s one piece that sounds pretty identical to the Charlie’s Angels theme). I personally love the Japanese score and think its the single strongest element of the 90s anime but I can understand why it may alienate people.
 
Aug 2, 2012
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#9
^With regards to Moon being homophobic...is that based on that episode where there's a scene in which she thinks a girl is interested in her romantically?? She reacted quite nicely actually....especially by early 90's Japanese standards! It was Mercury that reacted rather badly.
 
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Sep 6, 2014
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#10
^With regards to Moon being homophobic...is that based on that episode where there's a scene in which she thinks a girl is interested in her romantically?? She reacted quite nicely actually....especially by early 90's Japanese standards! It was Mercury that reacted rather badly.
in the first season memorial she gags at the mention of Kunzite and Zoicite’s relationship

in “Mako in a pinch” from S she’s very indignant in reminding Mako that Haruka is a GIRL when she thinks Mako is interested in Haruka

In the R movie she seems more upset that Mamoru may of had “that kind of relationship” with a dude.

Like, she’s just homophobic. Not anymore than your average teenager in the 90s would be (hell I went to high school at the end of the noughties and Usagi’s reactions wouldn’t be out of place) but a spade is a spade.

I’m not faulting the series for being a product of its time, there’s a lot worse material out there that came out around Sailor Moon and hell it never engaged in blatant racism (Hello Dragon Ball again!) but ehh it definitely dates the series.
 

MementoNepenthe

Aurorae Lunares
Mar 8, 2012
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#11
^ There's also the episode in S where she and the others briefly think Rei's on a date with a girl (Maya) and they all freak out.

Anyway, I don't think Crystal ever tried to sell itself as some feminist/empowering series. I think fans just put waaaaaaay too much stock in a throwaway lyric in the opening theme song and were disappointed when the show ended up being the "Usagi is Great, Every Other Character is Useless Show." All Crystal ever purported to be was a faithful adaptation of the manga (fail!) and the definitive version of the series (fail!) that would ideally appeal to adult women who had watched the original show when they were kids (sort-of fail).
 
Aug 2, 2012
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#12
in the first season memorial she gags at the mention of Kunzite and Zoicite’s relationship

in “Mako in a pinch” from S she’s very indignant in reminding Mako that Haruka is a GIRL when she thinks Mako is interested in Haruka

In the R movie she seems more upset that Mamoru may of had “that kind of relationship” with a dude.

Like, she’s just homophobic. Not anymore than your average teenager in the 90s would be (hell I went to high school at the end of the noughties and Usagi’s reactions wouldn’t be out of place) but a spade is a spade.

I’m not faulting the series for being a product of its time, there’s a lot worse material out there that came out around Sailor Moon and hell it never engaged in blatant racism (Hello Dragon Ball again!) but ehh it definitely dates the series.
Oh so what same sex relationship may have Mamoru had then (not being homophobic here, I'm gay myself)?
 
Oct 31, 2009
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#13
Anyway, I don't think Crystal ever tried to sell itself as some feminist/empowering series. I think fans just put waaaaaaay too much stock in a throwaway lyric in the opening theme song and were disappointed when the show ended up being the "Usagi is Great, Every Other Character is Useless Show."
Yeah, that excuse was used quite a bit after Act 12 premiered.

All Crystal ever purported to be was a faithful adaptation of the manga (fail!) and the definitive version of the series (fail!) that would ideally appeal to adult women who had watched the original show when they were kids (sort-of fail).
Sponsored by ViVi. :P
 
May 1, 2015
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sparklyheartsdiana.tumblr.com
#14
I think the manga has probably aged the best, but it still has a lot of problematic elements that mark it as a product of its time.

The live action series is, in my opinion, the next best aged iteration. Obviously the terrible CG and early 2000s clothes date the series a fair amount, but it has the best writing (apart, maybe, from its kind of lackluster, rushed finale)

I think the first episode was solid, the series peaked with the flawless fifth episode, and the third season was at least watchable, but on the whole the series has been so incompetently managed and has brought absolutely nothing original to the table except some memes at its own expense that it will go down as a footnote

The 90s anime has aged all right, but it has probably the most problematic elements and I think a lot of the animation and music look and sound very dated now.

The Bandai musicals are extremely dated (dated music, though some pieces are still great; dated wigs and costuming; dated writing, though at least a lot of the plots were inventive

The Nelke musicals have been much higher quality (especially the NogiMyu), Musicals have been Sailor Moon's most reliable form,
What are instances where the manga has aged well, in your opinion?

I agree about the writing in the live action drama, I loved Ami and Rei in this version.

The 90's anime really wasn't great handling the topic of weight well (DiC did better with it, though).

The old stage shows by Bandai had the worst shade of yellow for Moon and Venus' wigs, therefore I agree on how dated they were.