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 Post subject: Usagi has NLD
PostPosted: Mon Aug 09, 2010 5:59 pm 
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I think Usagi would be diagnosed with NLD in the real world.

NLD, Nonverbal Learning Disorder, is a neurological disorder where you have deficits in fine motor skills, visual-spatial skills, executive functioning, organization, visual motor integration, social skills, motor coordination, gross motor skills, time management, planning, visual memory, visual perception, spatial awareness, emotional maturity, attention, math, science, attention to visual detail and a lot more.

Fine motor skill deficits involve things like having bad handwriting, being bad at drawing, bad at arts and crafts, bad at sewing, bad at making things, anything involving your hands you are bad at.

Visual-spatial deficits involve things like having a bad sense of direction, bumping into objects, knocking over objects, tripping, getting lost, trouble judging the distant between yourself and objects, poor visual memory, getting lost, being bad at math, being bad at drawing a straight line, lining columns up, being bad at visual-spatial organization, losing things and having difficult spotting an object in a cluttered room.

Gross motor skills involve deficits in balance, ice skating, you trip and fall a lot and are klutzy.

Executive function deficits includes poor time management, being late a lot, difficulty starting and completing tasks, poor organization, short term memory problems, losing objects, difficulty regulating emotions.

Visual Motor deficits include being bad at visual motor coordination tasks, having poor hand eye coordination, being bad at anything that involves copying something you see.

Pragmatic language deficits are saying the wrong thing at the wrong time, talking too little or too much, saying random, off topic things, changing topics.

There are also deficits in emotional maturity, people tend to act 25-30% younger than their age.

People with NLD are very bad at math, can’t line up the columns or draw straight lines, are bad at science and have difficulty writing things and organizing their thoughts and end up writing too much

People with NLD are very naïve, trusting and kind-hearted. A well known quality is the sincerity, honesty and kind hearts of NLDers and how they see the positive in everyone and are very trusting to a fault.

Then there is ADD, where you have deficits in attention, executive function, organization, fine and gross motor skills and emotional maturity.

For a more detailed explanation:

“People with visual-spatial problems have trouble with things like
copying from the board, understanding dimension,
reading maps, spacing letters and words, paragraphing,
subtracting and doing other math operations, adapting
to schedule changes, and telling time.

Motor-spatial performance describes physical movement
through space and time. People with motor-spatial
problems are klutzy. They may have problems writing
legibly, playing ball, staying in step in a dance or
march, tying ropes, riding a bike, walking across a
room without bumping into people or objects, or
reaching for and turning a doorknob. This links to
Visual Motor Integration, which is The ability to use
sight to guide movement, combining visual input with
other sensory input. This refers to both gross motor
and fine motor tasks. This affects hand and body
movements, balance, hearing, etc. as well as the
ability to transform images from a vertical to a
horizontal plane (such as from the blackboard to the
desk surface). People with this problem have a tough
time orienting themselves in space, especially in
relation to other people and objects. They are clumsy,
bump into things, place things on the edges of tables
or counters where they fall off, "miss" their seats
when they sit down, etc. Difficulty with fine motor
integration effects writing and organization”

That’s from the professional terms.

Usagi shows these signs. With fine motor skills, Usagi has a lot of difficulty doing arts and crafts and making things, the bunny she made for Chibi-Usa, making the promise ring bracelet, Usagi also drops and spills objects often and has messy drawing, Usagi spilled Mamoru’s treat and often spills things.

With gross motor skills, Usagi has balance problems and trips and falls a lot, Usagi had difficulty ice skating and often trips.

With visual-spatial skills, Usagi often bumps into people and things, gets lost and has a poor sense of direction, stated in episode 50, trips over things, has difficulty with hand eye coordination (episode 50) and has difficulty with visual motor coordination and is seen at klutzy.

With executive function, Usagi is often late and forgets things, dropping the moon wand and things like that.

With emotional maturity, Usagi often acts younger than her age.

With social skills, Usagi often says random things that others find strange, confusing or obvious and can act silly and often says and does things that are not appropriate to the situation.

Usagi is naïve and trusting and has a good heart.

Usagi also often daydreams and has organization troubles.

So, why did I decide to diagnose my favorite character with a neurological disorder and how did I find out about this? As a child and growing up, I always felt so much like I could relate to Usagi. I looked like Usagi, first of all, I am skinny, have long blondish/brownish hair, blue eyes. I am very cute and youthful. More than that, I had so many of the same difficulties Usagi had. I was late to school every day, I would trip over things, I would forget things people told me minutes ago, I was bad at math and did poorly in school, I was disorganized, I would drop objects and spill things, I would lose things all the time and have difficulty finding them, I had bad handwriting, was bad at art and drawing, was bad at arts and crafts and making objects, was bad at anything using my hands, I was bad at using scissors and glue, I was bad at making jewelry and beads, I was bad at ice skating, I had difficulty with visual motor coordination, I was bad at video games, had a bad sense of direction and got lost all the time, had a poor visual memory and poor attention to detail, daydreamed all the time, had short term memory problems, didn’t pay attention at all, forgot things, had difficulty with visual motor coordination, was bad at playing musical instruments, bad at driving, couldn’t organize my thoughts or write well, I would accidentally knock small objects over, I would trip and fall, I would spill things, I had a poor attention span and got distracted easily, I was immature for my age and daydreamed a lot. I was pretty and skinny and came across as very naïve and had a good heart. I was creative, too, but all of my difficulties got in the way of that. I felt like I was bad at everything.

I was diagnosed with ADD, anorexia, learning disabilities, anxiety disorders and other things. I think I also have NLD. I just didn't know what it was. Eventually, last October, I ran into something called NLD, looked at it and thought a lot of the things fit me. Not everything, I did not have as many social difficulties and I have an amazing sense of humor, I am much more ADD than NLD, but I definitely have deficits in fine motor skills, visual-spatial skills, attention, organization, executive function, math, maturity and all that. It had been a long time since I had been into the sailormoon scene and when I looked up NLD I remembered, hey, didn’t Usagi have a lot of those traits? Maybe that’s why I always felt I could relate so much to Usagi. It had been a long time since I’d been into sailormoon, but I decide to reread the manga, rewatch the episodes, and I recognized a lot of the NLD and ADD traits in Usagi. Usagi apologizing to a telephone pole, bumping into people, having difficulty with arts and crafts, holding objects and dropping things, being late. I know I have ADD, and I’m pretty sure I have NLD, and now I’m finally figuring it out.

Usagi was always criticized for all her flaws by others, and I could totally relate as when I was younger, I had a lot of those difficulties. It may seem odd to think that a fictional character has a neurological disorder, but I think Usagi fits the characteristics for ADD inattentive and NLD. Finding out about NLD more as well as ADD really got me to go back into the sailormoon series and see it from another point of view.

So, what’s the point of this topic, you ask? Usagi was constantly criticized for her flaws by fans and the characters and Usagi can’t help them. It’s kind of interesting how Usagi fits the criteria for NLD and ADD, and it explains a lot of Usagi’s traits and I finally realized one of the reasons why I related so well to Usagi. People liked me because I was pretty and nice and I then because I appeared so normal, people would get upset when I was late or dropped something or tripped over something or was disorganized or forgetful and I never understood why, I thought I was stupid, but now I realize that that’s not it.
So, it may be silly to say a fictional character has a neurological disorder, but in Usagi’s case it makes sense. Anyway, I think this is the explanation of Usagi’s character traits and why Usagi is the way she is. Usagi is not a klutz, Usagi has a neurological disorder, a learning disability.

So, does anyone else have any diagnosis for any other characters? Sorry if this topic seems a little weird or random, but it really made me look at the series in a whole new way, I hope this topic isn’t pointless or inappropriate or weird. I just thought it might be interesting. Also, to see if anyone else can relate to having similar difficulties, a lot of us enjoy the series because we can relate to Usagi, maybe others out there also have similar disabilities that were missed?

I hope this topic is appropriate, I’m so nervous about posting again and I worry that others will think this topic is pointless or stupid. So, what do you think? Do you have any neurological or psychological diagnosis for any other Sailormoon characters that you can relate to as well? Please share.


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 Post subject: Re: Usagi has NLD
PostPosted: Mon Aug 09, 2010 6:12 pm 
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Um holy ISH ...I might have NLD. :eeklez:

Besides the drawing thing , I can sort of draw and would love to be a manga artist. But to get on subject , this makes sense .

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 Post subject: Re: Usagi has NLD
PostPosted: Mon Aug 09, 2010 6:16 pm 
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Yeah, I'm being evaluated by a neuropsych this and next week and afterwards I'll have the results. As a child I was diagnosed with ADD and learning disabilities, but most schools don't know what NLD is so it wasn't given a name, but my neuropsych I went to was pretty sure I have NLD along with the ADD. My anxiety disorders and anorexia were really because of the NLD, when you're constantly disorganized and bad at everything, you have a lot of anxiety and people with NLD and ADD develop things like anxiety disorders, anorexia, ocd because of the confusion of visual-spatial processing. I always wondered since I was a kid why I was so much like Usagi and now I know.


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 Post subject: Re: Usagi has NLD
PostPosted: Mon Aug 09, 2010 6:29 pm 
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I always think all the five Senshi have their own different mental problems. :P

@Usagi and Mamoru: I hope you can get the appropriate & effective treatments after the completion of your diagnoses. :)

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 Post subject: Re: Usagi has NLD
PostPosted: Mon Aug 09, 2010 6:39 pm 
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I think we´re just over-analyzing it :D I don´t think Takeuchi thought about some medical diagnoses when she wrote the manga :D She just said she wanted to create a character that is close to her own true self....

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 Post subject: Re: Usagi has NLD
PostPosted: Mon Aug 09, 2010 7:26 pm 
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sunnybunny wrote:
I think we´re just over-analyzing it :D I don´t think Takeuchi thought about some medical diagnoses when she wrote the manga :D She just said she wanted to create a character that is close to her own true self....

So she has NLD herself!? :eek:

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 Post subject: Re: Usagi has NLD
PostPosted: Mon Aug 09, 2010 7:52 pm 
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Ah, over-analyzing. Gotta love it. :)


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 Post subject: Re: Usagi has NLD
PostPosted: Mon Aug 09, 2010 8:56 pm 
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Rika-Chicchi wrote:
sunnybunny wrote:
I think we´re just over-analyzing it :D I don´t think Takeuchi thought about some medical diagnoses when she wrote the manga :D She just said she wanted to create a character that is close to her own true self....

So she has NLD herself!? :eek:

Well, if you put together her interviews and our over-analyzations then you get some straaange results :D

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 Post subject: Re: Usagi has NLD
PostPosted: Mon Aug 09, 2010 10:21 pm 
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I think Usagi is just lazy. I've been in her shoes. I know what it's like to fall asleep in class and wanting to play video games instead of getting my homework finished.


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 Post subject: Re: Usagi has NLD
PostPosted: Mon Aug 09, 2010 11:21 pm 
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Usagi definetely has NLD and ADD and is not lazy. The emotional immaturity for one, Usagi acts 25-30% younger. Also, the tripping and falling, dropping and spilling things, bumping into things, poor sense of direction, poor fine and gross motor skills, difficulty making promise ring bracelets, social immaturity, difficulty with hand eye coordination, that's a neurological disorder, not being lazy. If it was lazy it would be inconsistency, but it happens in all areas. There's too many traits to be dismissed. The deficits in fine motor skills, visual-spatial skills, gross motor skills, executive function, social skills, attention, visual motor coordination, organization, time management, emotional maturity, as well as naivette and the kind and loving heart, it's all there. You might appear to not be putting in effort because it's difficult, but it's real.


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 Post subject: Re: Usagi has NLD
PostPosted: Tue Aug 10, 2010 1:14 am 
Aurorae Lunares
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I miss the good old days, when it would be called 'eccentric, ditzy behavior.' Now everyone's personality is defined as a 'disorder' and prescribed an expensive treatment that rarely does anything.

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 Post subject: Re: Usagi has NLD
PostPosted: Tue Aug 10, 2010 6:20 am 
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Rika-Chicchi wrote:
I always think all the five Senshi have their own different mental problems. :P

Are you being sarcastic? P-:

Sub Zippo wrote:
I miss the good old days, when it would be called 'eccentric, ditzy behavior.' Now everyone's personality is defined as a 'disorder' and prescribed an expensive treatment that rarely does anything.

But you'll have to agree that Professor Tomoe's behavior doesn't quite fit definition of "eccentric", does it? Just think about his uncontrollable laughter, constant addressing some "invisible friend" whom he calls "Pharaoh 90", and his plans to conquer the entire world. What any psychiatrist would say about that? A typical example of schizophrenia, at the very least. :)

Usagi and Mamoru wrote:
It had been a long time since I had been into the sailormoon scene and when I looked up NLD I remembered, hey, didn’t Usagi have a lot of those traits?

Unless one has an appropriate medical education in the corresponding field, looking up definitions for diseases in books can have some interesting results... I feel tempted to quote a passage from "Three Men in a Boat" by Jerome K. Jerome (the whole book can be found here: http://www.gutenberg.org/etext/308 - it's one of my favorite books, btw)

Quote:
I remember going to the British Museum one day to read up the treatment
for some slight ailment of which I had a touch - hay fever, I fancy it
was. I got down the book, and read all I came to read; and then, in an
unthinking moment, I idly turned the leaves, and began to indolently
study diseases, generally. I forget which was the first distemper I
plunged into - some fearful, devastating scourge, I know - and, before I
had glanced half down the list of "premonitory symptoms," it was borne in
upon me that I had fairly got it.

I sat for awhile, frozen with horror; and then, in the listlessness of
despair, I again turned over the pages. I came to typhoid fever - read
the symptoms - discovered that I had typhoid fever, must have had it for
months without knowing it - wondered what else I had got; turned up St.
Vitus's Dance - found, as I expected, that I had that too, - began to get
interested in my case, and determined to sift it to the bottom, and so
started alphabetically - read up ague, and learnt that I was sickening
for it, and that the acute stage would commence in about another
fortnight. Bright's disease, I was relieved to find, I had only in a
modified form, and, so far as that was concerned, I might live for years.
Cholera I had, with severe complications; and diphtheria I seemed to have
been born with. I plodded conscientiously through the twenty-six
letters, and the only malady I could conclude I had not got was
housemaid's knee.

I felt rather hurt about this at first; it seemed somehow to be a sort of
slight. Why hadn't I got housemaid's knee? Why this invidious
reservation? After a while, however, less grasping feelings prevailed. I
reflected that I had every other known malady in the pharmacology, and I
grew less selfish, and determined to do without housemaid's knee. Gout,
in its most malignant stage, it would appear, had seized me without my
being aware of it; and zymosis I had evidently been suffering with from
boyhood. There were no more diseases after zymosis, so I concluded there
was nothing else the matter with me.


I think the analysis of Usagi's personality you provided above is quite interesting, however, only a person with professional medical education can draw the borderline between just being clumsy and being clumsy due to having a medical condition. Since Usagi is a fictional character, she can have such a condition only if her creator (Naoko Takeuchi) intended her to have it. I doubt it was the case. On the other hand, definitions for disorders and conditions tend to change with time. I think it's not impossible that Naoko gave her character all traits of a person with the mentioned medical condition without thinking about it (maybe without even knowing its name or definition)...

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 Post subject: Re: Usagi has NLD
PostPosted: Tue Aug 10, 2010 6:39 am 
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Usagi and Mamoru wrote:
Usagi definetely has NLD and ADD and is not lazy. The emotional immaturity for one, Usagi acts 25-30% younger. Also, the tripping and falling, dropping and spilling things, bumping into things, poor sense of direction, poor fine and gross motor skills, difficulty making promise ring bracelets, social immaturity, difficulty with hand eye coordination, that's a neurological disorder, not being lazy. If it was lazy it would be inconsistency, but it happens in all areas. There's too many traits to be dismissed. The deficits in fine motor skills, visual-spatial skills, gross motor skills, executive function, social skills, attention, visual motor coordination, organization, time management, emotional maturity, as well as naivette and the kind and loving heart, it's all there. You might appear to not be putting in effort because it's difficult, but it's real.

Ughh, Usagi is only 14 when the series start. She´s not immature, she´s acting accordingly to her age. Her flaws only make her more interesting character, who teenage girls can easily relate to. Social skills? I think she´s more social than any real people! COME ON, not every teenager has to act like Haruka and Michiru! Besides, Usagi has shown lots of improvements during the anime. I think everyone needs time to grow up, not to become adults too soon.

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 Post subject: Re: Usagi has NLD
PostPosted: Tue Aug 10, 2010 6:40 am 
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Maraviollantes wrote:

Sub Zippo wrote:
I miss the good old days, when it would be called 'eccentric, ditzy behavior.' Now everyone's personality is defined as a 'disorder' and prescribed an expensive treatment that rarely does anything.

But you'll have to agree that Professor Tomoe's behavior doesn't quite fit definition of "eccentric", does it? Just think about his uncontrollable laughter, constant addressing some "invisible friend" whom he calls "Pharaoh 90", and his plans to conquer the entire world. What any psychiatrist would say about that? A typical example of schizophrenia, at the very least. :)


Tomoe is ACTUALLY possessed by an elemental-evil megalomaniacal entity. That's more of an parasitic infection than a disorder. :tongue:

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 Post subject: Re: Usagi has NLD
PostPosted: Tue Aug 10, 2010 7:31 am 
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Maraviollantes wrote:
Rika-Chicchi wrote:
I always think all the five Senshi have their own different mental problems. :P

Are you being sarcastic? P-:

Half & half. =^_^=

Sub Zippo wrote:
Maraviollantes wrote:

Sub Zippo wrote:
I miss the good old days, when it would be called 'eccentric, ditzy behavior.' Now everyone's personality is defined as a 'disorder' and prescribed an expensive treatment that rarely does anything.

But you'll have to agree that Professor Tomoe's behavior doesn't quite fit definition of "eccentric", does it? Just think about his uncontrollable laughter, constant addressing some "invisible friend" whom he calls "Pharaoh 90", and his plans to conquer the entire world. What any psychiatrist would say about that? A typical example of schizophrenia, at the very least. :)


Tomoe is ACTUALLY possessed by an elemental-evil megalomaniacal entity. That's more of an parasitic infection than a disorder. :tongue:

That's still a condition needed to be treated, as he, being in that abnormal state, is still sick. :)

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 Post subject: Re: Usagi has NLD
PostPosted: Tue Aug 10, 2010 10:26 am 
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yeah this was a total bummer post.
now I feel like I have NLD.


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 Post subject: Re: Usagi has NLD
PostPosted: Tue Aug 10, 2010 3:07 pm 
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Usagi does have poor social skills. Social skills doesn't mean being social, many people are social but have poor social skills. Social skills means having good pragmatic language and saying the appropriate things at the appropriate times in conversations, not going off topic, not talking about yourself too much, knowing how long to talk, knowing when to change topics and ask questions, knowing the appropriate things not to day, knowing when to join and leave a conversation, knowing not to bring up inappropriate things, knowing when someone wants to talk and not acting inappropriate. Usagi is very weak in social skills, Usagi often acts inappropriate around Mamoru's friends and around her peers, changing topics, saying inappropriate things, approaching people when they want to be alone, saying random things, going off topic, not asking questions, intruding on people's private space, talking too much about yourself. Being social does not mean having good social skills, social skills is about the pragmatics and semantics of conversation, having a two-way conversations. One of the reasons Usagi is my favorite character is because of Usagi's social awkwardness and poor social skills. Usagi often gets criticized and yelled at for them. Usagi's poor social skills makes me like Usagi more. Michiru has good social skills, saying the right thing at the right time, not intruding on people's conversations, not talking as much about herself, going off topic, boring. Usagi's weak social skills is what makes Usagi a great character. Talking about herself, approaching people when they don't want to be talked to, saying off topic, silly, weird, crazy things, asking inappropriate questions. It makes Usagi more likable. In real life, Usagi would be harassed and yelled at for those kinds of social skills. In real life, there are a lot of serious dynamics involving pragmatics and semantics in social conversation. People with ADD, NLD, ADHD, DCD and SPLD as welll as other neurological learning disabilities and conditions often have weaknesses in these areas. Usagi's character in real life would have a lot of difficulty because of her social skills.

The other senshi and Mamoru are more socially proficient and know how to socialize appropriately and use pragmatics right and play the social games, which makes Usagi lovable and amusing and more relatable because of her weak social skills. Usagi is herself and doesn't play social games or play by the pragmatic social rules, she is herself and is sincere even if it comes across as social awkward. People who do not have weaknesses in pragmatics don't understand the intense dynamics of social pragmatics so they don't pay attention to them and think social skills is about being social, but it's really about the content and appropriateness and timing of social interactions. The conversation between Mamoru and Usagi and Chibi-Usa and Saori and Kobayashi showed Usagi's weakness in social skills, where Usagi kept saying inappropriate things and acting silly, same in the party episode where Mamoru introduced Usagi to Edwards and in the tea party episode. Usagi's weak social skills is what makes her a great character. Social skills are about how the pragmatics are used in conversations and Usagi has weaknesses in social pragmatics. Mamoru is strong in social pragmatics, shown by his interactions with others, he has good social skills, but is quiet. Usagi is friendly, but has weak social skills. There's a difference, but it makes each individual unique. Usagi is a great character because of her social awkwardness, poor motor skills, weak visual-spatial skills, poor executive functioning, poor visual-motor integration and kind heart. If Usagi was socially proficient, she would not be as entertaining, unique and enjoyable as she is.

Usagi also does act younger than her age, but that also makes Usagi more likable and relatable. In real life I could relate to Usagi, I was pretty, skinny, kind hearted and had so many flaws and deficits, but because I was so pretty and normal looking, having weaknesses in fine motor skills, visual-spatial skills, pragmatics, visual motor integration, visual motor coordination, organization, attention, executive function, visual memory, visual processing, people can't see that so they don't understand and tend to label them as being ditzy or klutzy or cute or endearing.


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 Post subject: Re: Usagi has NLD
PostPosted: Tue Aug 10, 2010 6:52 pm 
Though she may show "symptons" of having NLD/ADD, I sincerely doubt Naoko Takeuchi thought up a character with the intent of it possessing a certain psychological diagnosis.

I think Usagi in general is just a figure anyone can relate to, while the other characters have more "polished" personas. We've all experienced being late, sleeping in, procrastinating/not studying, having awkward/embarrassing moments, daydreaming, etc. However, not all of us can play the violin (Michiru), drive a racecar (Haruka), or consistently receive perfect grades (Ami). Usagi simply has a universal appeal that the other characters don't-behavior wise that is;

When you think about it, Sailor Moon/Usagi's personality (along with her iconic odango hairstyle) could arguably be what makes her such a popular character in the world of Anime. The same could be said about DBZs' Goku, as both his and Usagi's demeanor are very much alike.


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 Post subject: Re: Usagi has NLD
PostPosted: Tue Aug 10, 2010 8:35 pm 
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Usagi and Mamoru wrote:
One of the reasons Usagi is my favorite character is because of Usagi's social awkwardness and poor social skills. Usagi often gets criticized and yelled at for them. Usagi's poor social skills makes me like Usagi more. Michiru has good social skills, saying the right thing at the right time, not intruding on people's conversations, not talking as much about herself, going off topic, boring. Usagi's weak social skills is what makes Usagi a great character.

I think you are confusing something here, or, at least, give the term "social skills" a different meaning than what can be found in dictionaries and commonly understood as by people.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Social_skill

Wikipedia wrote:
A social skill is any skill facilitating interaction and communication with others.


If anything, Usagi has fantastic social skills, way above and better developed than average. She can easily communicate with anybody and befriend unknown people in several seconds, it's enough to remember how easily and quickly she approached and befriended Ami and Mako. While with Michiru it's vice-versa: she is cold, aloof, and doesn't even have any friends apart from her lover Haruka. If we can judge by what we were shown, Michiru's social skills are very poor.

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 Post subject: Re: Usagi has NLD
PostPosted: Tue Aug 10, 2010 8:47 pm 
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Usagi has very poor social skills. When people usually think of social skills, they mean social pragmatics:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pragmatics

When someone has social pragmatic deficits they are referred to as having poor social skills. Yes, literally, social skill is the ability to interact, but when talking about someone who is socially awkward or has a social skill deficit, people are actually refering to people with social pragmatic deficits. Someone who is friendly and engaging but has poor social pragmatics and says offbeat, off topic, random, awkward things, interrupts, talks too much or too little, changes topics, brings up random things, asks off topic questions and acts inappropriately is considered to have poor social skills, even though they are friendly, polite and warm.

Someone who is cold, aloof, distant and antisocial, but uses appropriate social pragmatics is considered to have good social skills. Someone with social anxiety or antisocial behavior does not lack social skills, when they are in an interaction they use pragmatics appropriately, but because of coldness or anxiety, they do not use their innate skills properly.

Someone with social pragmatic deficits is usually trusting, naive, friendly and talkative, but comes across as awkward, immature, annoying or eccentric because of poor pragmatics.

Usagi has a great heart and is friendly, warm, caring and naive, but because of pragmatic deficits, she comes across as eccentric or weird to people who don't know her well, like Saori, Kobayashi, and various other characters, however, because Usagi has such a warm, kind heart, they usually overlook it.


Last edited by Usagi and Mamoru on Tue Aug 10, 2010 9:16 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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 Post subject: Re: Usagi has NLD
PostPosted: Tue Aug 10, 2010 9:14 pm 
Galaxias
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Usagi and Mamoru wrote:
Usagi has very poor social skills. When people usually think of social skills, they mean pragmatics:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pragmatics

When someone has social pragmatic deficits they are reffered to as having poor social skills.,

Pragmatics is a subfield of linguistics which studies the ways in which context contributes to meaning.

When people talk about "social skills", they do not mean a subfield of linguistics. They mean, well, social skills. You are free to have your own definition of "social skills", of course, and using it say that Usagi's social skills are "very poor", but still it will be your own definition that has nothing to do with what most other people, social sciences, and dictionaries understand as "social skills". ^_^'

http://dictionary.reference.com/browse/social+skills

Socail skills is how successfully you can communicate and interact with other people. It doesn't matter if you stutter for half an hour at every other word, missing most of your brain, forget to put your pants on before walking out of your house, etc., but if you can approach a random unknown person and befriend them in a matter of seconds (e.g., Ami, Mako), or stop a homicidal maniac using your words alone and offering your friendship (e.g. Nehellenia, Galaxia), like Usagi can, you have fantastic, excellent social skills. That all is true as long as we use definition of "social skills" shared by most people and social sciences, of course.

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 Post subject: Re: Usagi has NLD
PostPosted: Tue Aug 10, 2010 9:15 pm 
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Interesting topic! Great and thorough job on the opening!

I learned in psychology class that the borderline between sanity and disorder is culturally determined. So if Usagi's personality traits fit with what would be diagnosed as a disorder, it's fair to suggest she has that disorder, even if the author wasn't thinking about it. And how recent is this term? Takeuchi was a pharmacist, wasn't she? Unless it's very recent, she may have known about it.

I would like to pose a challenge. How does age typically affect this disorder? Usagi seemed to improve alot of these traits in the later seasons, doesn't she? But not all of them. It may just be that she tries too many new things and never becomes experienced in areas like crafts, but it's implied that confidence boosts affect her positively. Does this fit with the diagnosis?

Diagnosing characters is fun, and harmless, as long as we don't try to write a book and make it official. ^_^' I think I'll give it a try. A great many characters are probably narcissists, and Ami may have OCD. What do you all think? :)

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 Post subject: Re: Usagi has NLD
PostPosted: Tue Aug 10, 2010 9:23 pm 
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I agree with you that the term social skills is used inappropriately. Social skills should mean the ability to engage with people, however, lately, in the neurological field, unfortunately, people use social skills to mean social pragmatics, so that was the term I was used to.

When someone has social pragmatic deficits they are referred to as having poor social skills. Yes, literally, social skill is the ability to interact, but when talking about someone who is socially awkward or has a social skill deficit, people are actually refering to people with social pragmatic deficits. Someone who is friendly and engaging but has poor social pragmatics and says offbeat, off topic, random, awkward things, interrupts, talks too much or too little, changes topics, brings up random things, asks off topic questions and acts inappropriately is considered to have poor social skills, even though they are friendly, polite and warm.

Someone who is cold, aloof, distant and antisocial, but uses appropriate social pragmatics is considered to have good social skills. Someone with social anxiety or antisocial behavior does not lack social skills, when they are in an interaction they use pragmatics appropriately, but because of coldness or anxiety, they do not use their innate skills properly.

Someone with social pragmatic deficits is usually trusting, naive, friendly and talkative, but comes across as awkward, immature, annoying or eccentric because of poor pragmatics.

Usagi has a great heart and is friendly, warm, caring and naive, but because of pragmatic deficits, she comes across as eccentric or weird to people who don't know her well, like Saori, Kobayashi, and various other characters, however, because Usagi has such a warm, kind heart, they usually overlook it.

People with NLD are for the most part very friendly and caring and naive and social, but because of their weak pragmatic skills they are considered to have social skill deficits. It should actually be changed, the term should be pragmatic language deficits, but people refer to it as social skills. The literal meaning is kind of turned around and changed.

It's ironic, how in literature people with NLD are considered to have impairments in fine motor skills, gross motor skills, visual-spatial skills, visual memory, executive functioning, organization, visual motor integration and social skills, but the social skills should really just be social pragmatics because they are very social.

It's the same thing with William's Disorder, the people who have that are very social and have a 'cocktail party personality' but are considered to have social skill deficits when it's really pragmatic language deficits.

As someone with ADD and pretty likely NLD, I can say I was similar to Usagi in that respect. When I was younger I would start out shy, quiet but was really sweet, kind and warm. I had an awkward use of language similar to Usagi, I would change topics, say off topic, random things, but because I was so kind and funny, as well as pretty, I got away with it. Other people with NLD and ADD have a much more difficult time because people are very judgmental of pragmatic language, if you say or do the wrong thing at the wrong time, it can be social suicide in American society.


I have a lot of difficulty driving. I find it difficult to drive because of visual-spatial deficits and attention problems. I failed my driving test four times.

I still get lost in new places and areas.

My room is still a mess.

I am attracted to exciting guys that stimulate me, I constantly need stimulation and excitement. I usually like guys that are musicians or guys that have ADHD or are impulsive. Those guys are attracted to me, too, because I appear very shy and sweet. I am usually attracted to and have relationships with exciting, impulsive guys.

I am still late every day to everything.

It took me a long time to learn how to tie my shoes and tell left from right.

I still have messy handwriting, make messes, knock things over, spill things, trip over things, daydream, don't pay attention.

My college GPA was 2.0, really low

I did poorly in every extra curricular activity I tried. Playing an instrument, acting, jumproping, art, drawing, crafts, kickboxing, cooking, making jewelry, ice skating, video games, you name it, I suck at it, especially if it requires fine motor skills.

I'm actually very good at working out. I do treadmill every day and am very skinny, but also 'have' anorexia (according to doctors).

I am much ditzier than Usagi, I once went to school wearing two different pairs of shoes, both left shoes.

I also sometimes accidentally put my clothes on inside out or backwards.

I was horrible at arts and crafts, ice skating, beading, I can't draw a straight line with a ruler, I failed remedial math. I failed every math final and midterm I've ever taken even when I study, which is always at the last minute.

I still drop plates and other objects accidentally.

My performance IQ was 73, in the retarded range. My verbal IQ was 103, in the normal range. My full scale IQ is 88, which is considered low average. It shows that IQ is clearly not indictive of true intelligence. I seem like a dumb skinny blonde, but am actually quite smart, but very naive.

I trip on wires sometimes and knock things down when I don't see the wires.

Because I appear very pretty, nice. shy, cute and naive, a lot of exciting and rebellious guys are drawn to me, and I am drawn to those guys and usually have relationships with them.

I'm much quieter and much more shy now than I was when I was younger and come across as shy, but am completely different in intimate relationships.

Like Usagi, I am a romantic and daydream a lot. I act like a teenager even though I'm an 'adult'. People with ADD/NLD/ADHD are very immature for their age.


Last edited by Usagi and Mamoru on Wed Aug 11, 2010 3:10 pm, edited 2 times in total.

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 Post subject: Re: Usagi has NLD
PostPosted: Tue Aug 10, 2010 9:39 pm 
Galaxias
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Nekorin wrote:
Usagi seemed to improve alot of these traits in the later seasons, doesn't she?

I would say this statement is as arguable as theories about Usagi having NLD. One could argue that Usagi improved on those above mentioned traits only when and if they discard her depiction in SuperS as "inconsistent" and contradicting Usagi's real personality (seemingly believing they have a better understanding of her personality than people who created her). As you probably saw in our discussion of SuperS if you have read it. :o

Usagi and Mamoru wrote:
I agree with you that the term social skills is used inappropriately. Social skills should mean the ability to engage with people, however, lately, in the neurological field, unfortunately, people use social skills to mean social pragmatics, so that was the term I was used to.

Then, perhaps, you should refer to it as "Usagi's social pragmatics", "Usagi's pragmatic language skills" or something like that, to avoid further confusion. I see your point and agree with many of your thoughts, so I think our argument is largely due to using different definitions of social skills.

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 Post subject: Re: Usagi has NLD
PostPosted: Tue Aug 10, 2010 9:41 pm 
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Yeah, I think in general people confuse social skills with social pragmatics. People say they have social skill deficits but really have social pragmatic deficits. Don't ask how I know all these terms, I just learned them this year, hee.


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 Post subject: Re: Usagi has NLD
PostPosted: Tue Aug 10, 2010 9:56 pm 
Systema Solare
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Usagi and Mamoru wrote:
Yeah, I think in general people confuse social skills with social pragmatics. People say they have social skill deficits but really have social pragmatic deficits. Don't ask how I know all these terms, I just learned them this year, hee.


It might help your case to drop this particular angle. ^_^

I'll ask again, does Usagi's apparent improvement in some but not all of those areas fit with the diagnosis? I do like your analysis.

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 Post subject: Re: Usagi has NLD
PostPosted: Tue Aug 10, 2010 10:13 pm 
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Yeah, people can definetely improve with age. When I was younger I had difficulty tying my shoe, blow drying my hair, etc. Your skills improve once you practice them and do them a lot. I improved in so many areas.


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 Post subject: Re: Usagi has NLD
PostPosted: Wed Aug 11, 2010 7:42 am 
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She mastered the art of skating by the end of the episode. And you can see that through her S transformation and attack.

If she really does have NLD I doubt that we'll be able to see a proper transformation.

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 Post subject: Re: Usagi has NLD
PostPosted: Wed Aug 11, 2010 8:19 am 
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Nekorin wrote:
Diagnosing characters is fun, and harmless, as long as we don't try to write a book and make it official. ^_^' I think I'll give it a try. A great many characters are probably narcissists, and Ami may have OCD. What do you all think? :)

Almost any characters in Sailor Moon could be "diagnosed" as mentally "sick" in one way or another. :P I do agree that it could be fun to try that, but for fun's sake only. :wink:

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 Post subject: Re: Usagi has NLD
PostPosted: Wed Aug 11, 2010 3:15 pm 
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I am a good dancer. I do 70 minutes of treadmill every morning and am very skinny and run very fast every morning. I was able to ride a bike on time. I was able to ice skate on time, but was bad at it. I was also able to rollerskate. For someone who probably has NLD, I have few gross motor skill deficits. My main deficits were in fine motor skills, visual-spatial sills, visual memory, organization, attention, executive function, visual motor integration and time management. Everyone with NLD is different. A lot of perseveration improves your skills and allows you to master anything. My gross motor skills are not affected much really. NLD doesn't stop you from doing things, it may make them more difficult and may make them take longer, but you can do absolutely anything if you try hard enough. Usagi would definetely have NLD if she was a person in the real world and not a fictional character. With NLD, your impairments can be mild, developmental coordination disorder is a different condition where there are more serious impairments, with NLD, you can improve and you can have deficits in any area, but not all areas.


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