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Gender of the Galaxy Defenders?
Male 20%  20%  [ 7 ]
Female 65%  65%  [ 23 ]
what are u talking about they're trannies 14%  14%  [ 5 ]
Total votes : 35
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 Post subject: Re: Seiya, Taiki, Yaten/Starlights - male or female?
PostPosted: Fri Oct 29, 2010 3:13 am 
Quasar
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This thread has gotten me curious about something. We know that the anime had the Stalights able to take on physical male form as the civilian Three Lights on Earth. Well, suppose something happened to damage and temporarily shut down ALL of their magical abilities, rendering them completely powerless and in a state where neither their disguising abilites (which enable them to switch between female and male forms) nor their Senshi abilities (which enable them to both henshin into sailor fuku bishojo senshi and use attacks) could work. What sort of form do you all think they would be in during this brief time?

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 Post subject: Re: Seiya, Taiki, Yaten/Starlights - male or female?
PostPosted: Fri Oct 29, 2010 3:19 am 
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Sabrblade wrote:
This thread has gotten me curious about something. We know that the anime had the Stalights able to take on physical male form as the civilian Three Lights on Earth. Well, suppose something happened to damage and temporarily shut down ALL of their magical abilities, rendering them completely powerless and in a state where neither their disguising abilites (which enable them to switch between female and male forms) nor their Senshi abilities (which enable them to both henshin into sailor fuku bishojo senshi and use attacks) could work. What sort of form do you all think they would be in during this brief time?


They would probably be caught off guard if such a thing happened, so they'd probably be men.

And even if they weren't caught off guard, they'd probably stay as men anyway, so they can continue their Three Lights act to find Kakyuu.


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 Post subject: Re: Seiya, Taiki, Yaten/Starlights - male or female?
PostPosted: Fri Oct 29, 2010 3:51 am 
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Neo Moonlight wrote:
Sabrblade wrote:
This thread has gotten me curious about something. We know that the anime had the Stalights able to take on physical male form as the civilian Three Lights on Earth. Well, suppose something happened to damage and temporarily shut down ALL of their magical abilities, rendering them completely powerless and in a state where neither their disguising abilites (which enable them to switch between female and male forms) nor their Senshi abilities (which enable them to both henshin into sailor fuku bishojo senshi and use attacks) could work. What sort of form do you all think they would be in during this brief time?


They would probably be caught off guard if such a thing happened, so they'd probably be men.

And even if they weren't caught off guard, they'd probably stay as men anyway, so they can continue their Three Lights act to find Kakyuu.
I mean, if they couldn't choose what form to be reduced to.

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 Post subject: Re: Seiya, Taiki, Yaten/Starlights - male or female?
PostPosted: Fri Oct 29, 2010 3:56 am 
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Nike-chan is wrong, but what's new? :ohmy:
Why you-- *Breathes in, breathes out*
Whatever. :P That's low. Just goes to show. (it rhymes!)

what do ya expect he's a chiba P-:

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 Post subject: Re: Seiya, Taiki, Yaten/Starlights - male or female?
PostPosted: Fri Oct 29, 2010 4:14 am 
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Sabrblade wrote:
Neo Moonlight wrote:
Sabrblade wrote:
This thread has gotten me curious about something. We know that the anime had the Stalights able to take on physical male form as the civilian Three Lights on Earth. Well, suppose something happened to damage and temporarily shut down ALL of their magical abilities, rendering them completely powerless and in a state where neither their disguising abilites (which enable them to switch between female and male forms) nor their Senshi abilities (which enable them to both henshin into sailor fuku bishojo senshi and use attacks) could work. What sort of form do you all think they would be in during this brief time?


They would probably be caught off guard if such a thing happened, so they'd probably be men.

And even if they weren't caught off guard, they'd probably stay as men anyway, so they can continue their Three Lights act to find Kakyuu.
I mean, if they couldn't choose what form to be reduced to.

Yes, yes, how very clever of you. I see the point you are attempting to make. But you know what? Male. Since you are talking about the anime, in which, their civilian form on Earth is always male. So even if they had no disguise or henshin powers, they would revert to civilian form anyway, which is male. In the anime, whether or not their true civilian form is male or not was never disproven. In the manga their civilian form was female, but we never even saw what they are really like un-transformed, except their Earth, male, forms.
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what do ya expect he's a chiba

:wink: He's still sore from our previous conversations, where I may have been a little harsh when I called his bluff. :o

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 Post subject: Re: Seiya, Taiki, Yaten/Starlights - male or female?
PostPosted: Fri Oct 29, 2010 2:42 pm 
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Nike-chan wrote:
Yes, yes, how very clever of you. I see the point you are attempting to make. But you know what? Male. Since you are talking about the anime, in which, their civilian form on Earth is always male. So even if they had no disguise or henshin powers, they would revert to civilian form anyway, which is male. In the anime, whether or not their true civilian form is male or not was never disproven. In the manga their civilian form was female, but we never even saw what they are really like un-transformed, except their Earth, male, forms.
What if they revert to their non-powered Kinmokuseijin forms (whatever those may be)?

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 Post subject: Re: Seiya, Taiki, Yaten/Starlights - male or female?
PostPosted: Fri Oct 29, 2010 3:00 pm 
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Sabrblade wrote:
What if they revert to their non-powered Kinmokuseijin forms (whatever those may be)?

As I said above- in the anime- we don't know. Nothing is proven nor disproven. And I don't even know if it's possible to revert to their 'Kinmokuseijin' forms on Earth.

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 Post subject: Re: Seiya, Taiki, Yaten/Starlights - male or female?
PostPosted: Fri Oct 29, 2010 4:22 pm 
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Women like they are in the manga!

So in the anime they had male bodies on Earth ,but the truth is they are women .

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 Post subject: Re: Seiya, Taiki, Yaten/Starlights - male or female?
PostPosted: Fri Oct 29, 2010 10:30 pm 
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Sabrblade wrote:
This thread has gotten me curious about something. We know that the anime had the Stalights able to take on physical male form as the civilian Three Lights on Earth. Well, suppose something happened to damage and temporarily shut down ALL of their magical abilities, rendering them completely powerless and in a state where neither their disguising abilites (which enable them to switch between female and male forms) nor their Senshi abilities (which enable them to both henshin into sailor fuku bishojo senshi and use attacks) could work. What sort of form do you all think they would be in during this brief time?
They'd be women in that sort of situation. Their powers allow them to transform into men, so no powers means they'd be in their true form as women.

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 Post subject: Re: Seiya, Taiki, Yaten/Starlights - male or female?
PostPosted: Fri Oct 29, 2010 10:36 pm 
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and... the 3 seiyuus who voiced them were women !

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 Post subject: Re: Seiya, Taiki, Yaten/Starlights - male or female?
PostPosted: Fri Oct 29, 2010 11:06 pm 
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Rakiko wrote:
and... the 3 seiyuus who voiced them were women !

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 Post subject: Re: Seiya, Taiki, Yaten/Starlights - male or female?
PostPosted: Sat Oct 30, 2010 2:17 am 
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Rakiko wrote:
and... the 3 seiyuus who voiced them were women !

I must admit- they do a better job at it that most male VA's! I love Shiho-sama as Seiya. :love: Soo perfect. Now that she's gone, I can't imagine how anyone could do a better job as Seiya than her. No one will ever compare! I'll always feel short-changed. Although if Gackt decided to give it a try, I wouldn't complain. :P He's got a great, rich voice.

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 Post subject: Re: Seiya, Taiki, Yaten/Starlights - male or female?
PostPosted: Sat Oct 30, 2010 2:53 am 
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This was weird to me when i watched stars...i was like "what am i to think of them?!?guys or girls?!?there guys most of the time but there true forms are girls...".But i guess there women.*shrug*But if you think of them as males thats just fine with me :P
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Even in the anime I consider the Starlights truly female. They just went the extra mile in disgusing themselves in the anime. :P

Although Seiya is pretty hot as a girl AND a guy, but Taiki meets an ugly woman.


I agree P-:


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 Post subject: Re: Seiya, Taiki, Yaten/Starlights - male or female?
PostPosted: Sat Oct 30, 2010 3:07 am 
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Wow, this discussion is getting crazier...I don't mind what gender Seiya, Taiki and Yaten are... ^_^'
They can fit in both depending on ones opinions...

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 Post subject: Re: Seiya, Taiki, Yaten/Starlights - male or female?
PostPosted: Sat Oct 30, 2010 2:54 pm 
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Opinion doesn't change how things are. That's pretty ridiculous. That's not how the universe works.

In the anime they seem to be men who turn into women. This would bring up the further question of whether their civilian or starlight forms are their "true" forms. We can instead ask the question of whether Usagi transforms into Sailor Moon or Sailor Moon transforms into Usagi. In this case the real girl is certainly Usagi, and Sailor Moon is the identity she occasionally takes on. Of course the starlights come from a much different world. In Silver Millennium are there even civilian forms for anyone? Does Queen Serenity change one way or another? It is possible instead that the starlights hide as men when they come to earth, reverting as starlights.

But let's look at a few examples of Sailor Moon's transformation. When they go cherry blossom watching and that monster breaks Sailor Moon's broach, she reverts to Usagi. In Sailor Moon R when Fiore grabs her broach again she looses her costume. At this point at least, the magic seems to be what causes the powered up forms. For this, I would say in the anime they are natively men. Their personalities reflect this too. Yes, a woman can like a woman or self identify bla bla bla but here we have 3 different people who all seem to have male personalities, and the simplest explanation for this is that their male forms are their base ones, not that they are women who happen to self identify as men and as an unrelated trait can transform and... too convoluted...

In the manga I'd tend to say they're just women who disguise themselves as men.

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 Post subject: Re: Seiya, Taiki, Yaten/Starlights - male or female?
PostPosted: Sun Oct 31, 2010 1:51 am 
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aDam wrote:
Opinion doesn't change how things are. That's pretty ridiculous. That's not how the universe works.

I do not really care anyway that's why I do not want to discuss things like this :grey:
It's very confusing... :|

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 Post subject: Re: Seiya, Taiki, Yaten/Starlights - male or female?
PostPosted: Sun Oct 31, 2010 2:00 am 
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Maya-chan wrote:
aDam wrote:
Opinion doesn't change how things are. That's pretty ridiculous. That's not how the universe works.

I do not really care anyway that's why I do not want to discuss things like this :grey:
It's very confusing... :|

:? I'm lost

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 Post subject: Re: Seiya, Taiki, Yaten/Starlights - male or female?
PostPosted: Sun Oct 31, 2010 2:32 am 
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aDam wrote:
Opinion doesn't change how things are. That's pretty ridiculous. That's not how the universe works.
Just like everyone else’s, your opinion is based on (your view of) how things are in the first place. It was formed from the situation, so at least in your eyes, the situation supports it- or else how could it be formed? There's nothing to change.
Aside from this- :eek: I agree with pretty much all of what you said. I remember that you're not exactly fond of them- so I was very surprised when I read the rest of your post. Anyway- at least according to the anime, the only civilian forms we see are male, so we don't have much else to go by. The manga- female yes, although I feel differently on this than most other people- but I acknowledge this technicality.

Also- I am aware that Naoko initially intended for them to be always female. But then- why did she create characters that were so masculine in every way, so that Toei felt compelled to take matters into their own hands? Clearly, I wasn't the only one who read the manga and thought- they're too manly to be girls. The producers thought so too. So there. :P

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 Post subject: Re: Seiya, Taiki, Yaten/Starlights - male or female?
PostPosted: Sun Oct 31, 2010 2:58 am 
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Nike-chan wrote:
Also- I am aware that Naoko initially intended for them to be always female. But then- why did she create characters that were so masculine in every way, so that Toei felt compelled to take matters into their own hands? Clearly, I wasn't the only one who read the manga and thought- they're too manly to be girls. The producers thought so too. So there. :P


excuse me

Edit~ Allow me to elaborate my thoughts. You crossed a line from being wilfully ignorant to just being offensive. I have nothing more to say in this thread.

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 Post subject: Re: Seiya, Taiki, Yaten/Starlights - male or female?
PostPosted: Sun Oct 31, 2010 4:56 am 
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Katface wrote:
Nike-chan wrote:
Also- I am aware that Naoko initially intended for them to be always female. But then- why did she create characters that were so masculine in every way, so that Toei felt compelled to take matters into their own hands? Clearly, I wasn't the only one who read the manga and thought- they're too manly to be girls. The producers thought so too. So there. :P


excuse me

Edit~ Allow me to elaborate my thoughts. You crossed a line from being wilfully ignorant to just being offensive. I have nothing more to say in this thread.


I do not think she is being too offensive, I'm not defending her or anything it's just I do not think what she said that it is offensive.

I was wondering, since Haruka is Bifauxen like Yaten, Taiki and Seiya in the manga, why wouldn't Toei have Seiya, Taiki and Yaten from the manga to be like Haruka in the anime - not in personality but being Bifaxuen characters as well. :?
But it was Toei's decision for the three to be full male characters instead of bifauxen characters like what
Takeuchi wanted them to be in the manga.
Because Haruka was the only bifauxen Senshi in the series, Takeuchi wanted other bifauxen Senshi as well - hence Seiya, Taiki and Yaten were created.

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 Post subject: Re: Seiya, Taiki, Yaten/Starlights - male or female?
PostPosted: Sun Oct 31, 2010 5:21 am 
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Why is it offensive to say masculine trait apply more naturally to men? That's kind of what masculine means as a basic definition...

http://www.google.ca/search?sclient=psy ... fai=&pbx=1

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 Post subject: Re: Seiya, Taiki, Yaten/Starlights - male or female?
PostPosted: Sun Oct 31, 2010 10:10 am 
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They are women plain and simple, their male forms was a mere disguise nothing more then that. Point in fact I believe someone told me that Usagi used the Luna Pen to transform into a male in the manga and Zoicite disguised himself as a female Sailor Moon in the anime so gender changing with disguises seems rather common, however that does not change the fact that they are really women. So regardless of what some fangirls who can't get over how their beloved Seiya or Yaten are really women that dosen't change the fact that they are indeed women.

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 Post subject: Re: Seiya, Taiki, Yaten/Starlights - male or female?
PostPosted: Sun Oct 31, 2010 11:14 am 
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I'm going to say somethig simple to end my opinion: Seiya, Yaten & Taiki are Bifauxen (women who dess up like men) in the manga and males in the anime while female as Sailor Senshi in the anime.

I am not going to take any sides of male or female for Seiya, Yaten & Taiki because this is messed up :o
If Takeuchi says they are bifauxen/crossdressing characters then they are women, if the anime says they are male in human form and female as senshi they are both...
Depending on which side you forum members go to...a lot of people are taking Takeuchi's side since she created them ^_^'

Toei should have just made them female so this discussion would not be so complicated/problematical/intense/opaque and ridiculous/ludicrous/farcical/preposterous (@_@)

ok, I'm going to get shot here for the complex english words - I have exams in a few days *runs*

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 Post subject: Re: Seiya, Taiki, Yaten/Starlights - male or female?
PostPosted: Sun Oct 31, 2010 3:17 pm 
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Are we not allowed to say transvestite anymore? I hate the near infinite number of terms to describe these things. The question was male or female. Why do we need to use some random TV Trope word no one's heard of?

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 Post subject: Re: Seiya, Taiki, Yaten/Starlights - male or female?
PostPosted: Sun Oct 31, 2010 4:14 pm 
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 Post subject: Re: Seiya, Taiki, Yaten/Starlights - male or female?
PostPosted: Sun Oct 31, 2010 4:59 pm 
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Hemaphromorph is the best word I can guess. From their transformation they appear to actually transform from man to woman. The real question is which is their default state, and if they have a mind that's more one or the other...

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 Post subject: Re: Seiya, Taiki, Yaten/Starlights - male or female?
PostPosted: Sun Oct 31, 2010 6:00 pm 
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So I 'll always believe first what the creator decided and in the manga they are women...only Toei made them male on Earth and female as sailor.
So the real form is female because they talk about their appearance on Earth and if Kakyuu will recognise them.
They are female and male on Earth was just for that mission...

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 Post subject: Re: Seiya, Taiki, Yaten/Starlights - male or female?
PostPosted: Sun Oct 31, 2010 6:34 pm 
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Good point. It does certainly seem they were only male once they got to Earth. I wonder if taking on the physical form of a male could account for some more masculine tendencies.

Like in Beast Wars when Tigertron spends too much time as a tiger he starts to get feral. Well maybe actually being a man, and having different hormones, makes them... like girls and stuff... or they just always liked girls because hey that happens...

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 Post subject: Re: Seiya, Taiki, Yaten/Starlights - male or female?
PostPosted: Sun Oct 31, 2010 10:40 pm 
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In the anime, whenever Kakyuu speaks to the Three Lights, she only ever addresses them as "Starlights", "Fighter", "Healer", etc. She also questions their Earth civilian forms in episode 194:

Kakyuu: "Fighter. Do you use that appearance on Earth?"
Seiya: "Oh... to find the only lady here, this was more convenient."

Implying that their Kinmokuseijin forms are not like that of their Earthling forms.

Their Senshi forms might even be their standard forms on Kinmoku, since Kakyuu doesn't use any other names besides those ones, whether they're in Senshi form or not.

At a later point in the same episode, Seiya refers to himself ("This is my last moment as Seiya Kou...") as though "Kou Seiya" wasn't even a real person and just a pseudonym or false identity altogether.

Earlier, in episode 189, after learning each other's identities, Minako seems convinced that their Starlight forms are their ture forms, as she says, "It’s shocking that Three Lights are girls!"


aDam wrote:
Like in Beast Wars when Tigertron spends too much time as a tiger he starts to get feral.
Um... no. Tigatron did not become any more feral than the other characters by staying in his Beast Mode longer than normal. Quite the opposite, in fact. He embraced his animal half, bypassing the block within his programming that prevented his two forms from acting in unison. Whereas, when the other Maximals were stuck staying in Beast Mode for a prolonged period of time, they did become more feral due to this programming block, as their animal instincts began to dominate their rationality and intellect. Only after Tigatron guided them back to sanity did they learn to delete this block and unite their inner beasts with their robot selves.

He remained tame and coolheaded in his Beast Mode, whereas the others just went wild.

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 Post subject: Re: Seiya, Taiki, Yaten/Starlights - male or female?
PostPosted: Sun Oct 31, 2010 10:56 pm 
Solaris Luna
Solaris Luna
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Okay then the others. Apparently it's been a while since I've seen that one. You get the concept though...

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