Sailor Moon Forum

International Sailor Moon Online Community

* FAQ    * Search   * Login 
* Rss  * Register
It is currently Mon Dec 18, 2017 10:09 pm

All times are UTC




Post new topic Reply to topic  [ 24 posts ] 
Author Message
 Post subject: Why is Sailor Moon the "guardian of mystery?"
PostPosted: Tue May 15, 2012 3:55 am 
Bitten by Chibiusa 28 months ago
inactive
User avatar
Joined: Nov 18, 2011
Posts: 322
Location: USA
In the newest volume of the manga, after Death Phantom is defeated, Neo Queen Serenity grants all the senshi new powers. She names each one with their title, like "Sailor Mars, Gaurdian of War; Sailor Mercury, Guardian of Wisdom," etc. When she gets to Sailor Moon, she calls her the "Guardian of Mystery." I was sure that this was a mistake on Flanagan's part, but lo and behold, the original Japanese really does say mystery. The word is shinpi 神秘 and as far I know, there is only one meaning for it.

Tokyopop translated this segment as "Soldier of Sanctity," which certainly makes more sense to me, but is not accurate.

So why is Sailor Moon the Guardian of Mystery?

_________________
Check out my blog for comparison pictures and analysis of Kodansha's Sailor Moon manga re-release!
http://secondchancesmoon.blogspot.com/


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Why is Sailor Moon the "guardian of mystery?"
PostPosted: Tue May 15, 2012 4:21 am 
Bitten by Chibiusa 4 months ago
inactive
User avatar
Joined: Oct 12, 2011
Posts: 1908
Location: On the bridge of the USS Enterprise-A
Could be a call back to when humanity was first interested in space, the moon was one of the first targets, and was always a mystery for many years.

_________________
http://zhortac.deviantart.com/

Image Image


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Why is Sailor Moon the "guardian of mystery?"
PostPosted: Tue May 15, 2012 5:00 am 
Systema Solare
Systema Solare
User avatar
Years of membershipYears of membershipYears of membershipYears of membershipYears of membershipYears of membershipYears of membershipYears of membershipYears of membershipYears of membershipYears of membership
Joined: Jun 30, 2006
Posts: 5826
Location: Spellman Household, Massachusetts
I was going through the volume to check for smudging after the panic, and that made me raise my eyebrow too.

Furthermore, wasn't Jupiter the Guardian of Protection? Redundant much? I'm sure that flowed better back when Senshi was translated as "Soldier".

_________________
http://nekorin-gatacat.deviantart.com/ Come see me at Deviantart!


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Why is Sailor Moon the "guardian of mystery?"
PostPosted: Tue May 15, 2012 6:40 am 
Luna
Luna
User avatar
Years of membershipYears of membershipYears of membershipYears of membershipYears of membership
Joined: Mar 01, 2012
Posts: 597
Location: Atlanta
Sneakers Shingo wrote:

Furthermore, wasn't Jupiter the Guardian of Protection? Redundant much? I'm sure that flowed better back when Senshi was translated as "Soldier".


I never understood why people refer to her as the soldier of protection. All four of them are soldiers of protection.

_________________
Image


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Why is Sailor Moon the "guardian of mystery?"
PostPosted: Tue May 15, 2012 9:11 am 
Columnae Creationis
Columnae Creationis
User avatar
Years of membershipYears of membershipYears of membershipYears of membershipYears of membershipYears of membershipYears of membershipYears of membership
Joined: May 07, 2009
Posts: 37829
Gender: Male
flockapowpow wrote:
Sneakers Shingo wrote:

Furthermore, wasn't Jupiter the Guardian of Protection? Redundant much? I'm sure that flowed better back when Senshi was translated as "Soldier".


I never understood why people refer to her as the soldier of protection. All four of them are soldiers of protection.

See the 5th point of the Trivia section in her WikiMoon article: :)

http://wikimoon.org/index.php?title=Makoto_Kino#Trivia

_________________
 
Image

Avatar courtesy of ayaka502 (enhanced by Senji-kun)
My J-pop corner


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Why is Sailor Moon the "guardian of mystery?"
PostPosted: Tue May 15, 2012 12:48 pm 
Solaris Luna
Solaris Luna
User avatar
Years of membershipYears of membershipYears of membershipYears of membershipYears of membership
Joined: Apr 20, 2012
Posts: 2092
Location: Texas
Gender: Male
Moon isn't mysterious, but her powers are, so I always assumed that was the reason.


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Why is Sailor Moon the "guardian of mystery?"
PostPosted: Tue May 15, 2012 1:09 pm 
Columnae Creationis
Columnae Creationis
User avatar
Years of membershipYears of membershipYears of membershipYears of membershipYears of membershipYears of membershipYears of membershipYears of membership
Joined: May 07, 2009
Posts: 37829
Gender: Male
1dbad wrote:
Moon isn't mysterious, but her powers are, so I always assumed that was the reason.

Yeah, the Silver Crystal is mysterious, as reflected in its full name. :)

_________________
 
Image

Avatar courtesy of ayaka502 (enhanced by Senji-kun)
My J-pop corner


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Why is Sailor Moon the "guardian of mystery?"
PostPosted: Tue May 15, 2012 7:39 pm 
Bitten by Chibiusa 37 months ago
inactive
User avatar
Joined: Jul 27, 2010
Posts: 1026
Location: New Zealand
Saturn has more 'mysterious' powers if you ask me.


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Why is Sailor Moon the "guardian of mystery?"
PostPosted: Tue May 15, 2012 7:50 pm 
Columnae Creationis
Columnae Creationis
User avatar
Years of membershipYears of membershipYears of membershipYears of membershipYears of membershipYears of membershipYears of membershipYears of membership
Joined: May 07, 2009
Posts: 37829
Gender: Male
SailorBecky wrote:
Saturn has more 'mysterious' powers if you ask me.

And Pluto has always got that uber cool mysterious aura. :cool:

_________________
 
Image

Avatar courtesy of ayaka502 (enhanced by Senji-kun)
My J-pop corner


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Why is Sailor Moon the "guardian of mystery?"
PostPosted: Tue May 15, 2012 8:00 pm 
Bitten by Chibiusa 8 months ago
inactive
User avatar
Joined: Mar 31, 2010
Posts: 1521
SailorBecky wrote:
Saturn has more 'mysterious' powers if you ask me.

What mystery is there? Saturn blows s*** up, and that's all we need to know about that. I mean, there's a reason why Queen Serenity didn't want her actually fighting: too much collateral to worry about.

I'm just glad the modern-day Usagi is able to look past the whole "walking WMD" aspect and treat Hotaru as a person who just wants to help.

_________________
Oppositio Sin: She holds your Destiny in her hands...


Last edited by Maetch on Wed May 16, 2012 12:51 am, edited 1 time in total.

Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Why is Sailor Moon the "guardian of mystery?"
PostPosted: Tue May 15, 2012 9:57 pm 
Bitten by Chibiusa 49 months ago
inactive
User avatar
Joined: Oct 31, 2011
Posts: 808
Location: Earth
The whole "soldier/guardian of mystery" thing is probably mythology-related since Takeuchi uses a lot of mythology in the series.

Sailor Mercury is the guardian of wisdom because Hermes/Mercury is a god of wisdom(one of his lesser domains), despite it being more closely associated with Athena/Minerva. It'd be more accurate to call her a guardian of intellect since intelligence is a related yet larger domain that Hermes/Mercury embodies(of which wisdom can be considered a subset), but it doesn't have the same ring to it.

Sailor Mars as the guardian of war is fairly obvious.

Sailor Jupiter as the guardian of protection because Zeus/Jupiter has several epithets that refer to him as a protector god. He's been regarded as a protector of strangers, suppliants, freedom, oaths, property, a protector from evil, and a god of defense, among many other things.

Sailor Venus is also obvious as the Soldier of Love.

Sailor Moon as the guardian of mystery is interesting because the Moon is regarded as mysterious, but most Moon goddesses in Greco-Roman myth weren't considered as such with the exception of Hecate(who I associate with Nehalennia). However, it's almost culturally universal that the night is filled with mysterious things, so maybe conflating the Moon with the night is what brings about the mystery element for Sailor Moon. OR maybe it's because there are so many Moon goddesses that the Moon's identity is a mystery.

_________________
I disapprove of what you say, but I will defend to the death your right to say it.
-- S.G. Tallentyre, author of Voltaire's biography, The Friends of Voltaire


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Why is Sailor Moon the "guardian of mystery?"
PostPosted: Wed May 16, 2012 9:31 am 
Columnae Creationis
Columnae Creationis
User avatar
Years of membershipYears of membershipYears of membershipYears of membershipYears of membershipYears of membershipYears of membershipYears of membership
Joined: May 07, 2009
Posts: 37829
Gender: Male
Maetch wrote:
SailorBecky wrote:
Saturn has more 'mysterious' powers if you ask me.

What mystery is there? Saturn blows s*** up, and that's all we need to know about that. I mean, there's a reason why Queen Serenity didn't want her actually fighting: too much collateral to worry about.

I think she'd only be "used" for really desperate situations & as a last resort. :)

Raven Nightshade wrote:
Sailor Mercury is the guardian of wisdom because Hermes/Mercury is a god of wisdom(one of his lesser domains), despite it being more closely associated with Athena/Minerva. It'd be more accurate to call her a guardian of intellect since intelligence is a related yet larger domain that Hermes/Mercury embodies(of which wisdom can be considered a subset), but it doesn't have the same ring to it.

It's really translated as "intellect" - see the 2nd paragraph of her WikiMoon article:

http://wikimoon.org/index.php?title=Sailor_Mercury

_________________
 
Image

Avatar courtesy of ayaka502 (enhanced by Senji-kun)
My J-pop corner


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Why is Sailor Moon the "guardian of mystery?"
PostPosted: Wed May 16, 2012 10:47 am 
Bitten by Chibiusa 18 months ago
inactive
User avatar
Joined: Nov 25, 2007
Posts: 251
Location: Ohio
Gender: Female
SailorHell, I really liked your article. Great work once again. Thank you for the time and effort you put into those comparisons every time a volume is released.

I also knew that using the term "guardian" instead of senshi would have its problems. I must admit though that my thinking is biased because I have never liked the term "guardian".

I fail to see how SM is the guardian of mystery. I love her to death but the whole story is about her and from her point of view (at least most of the time). Other than a little bit in StarS, she has always been open about her feelings and has gotten herself into trouble for saying whatever was on her mind.

_________________
Image


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Why is Sailor Moon the "guardian of mystery?"
PostPosted: Wed May 16, 2012 3:39 pm 
Bitten by Chibiusa 28 months ago
inactive
User avatar
Joined: Nov 18, 2011
Posts: 322
Location: USA
Healing_Sailor_Saturn wrote:
SailorHell, I really liked your article. Great work once again. Thank you for the time and effort you put into those comparisons every time a volume is released.

Thank you very much for your kind words!

I get that the Moon is mysterious and the Ginzuishou is...kind of mysterious, but those seem like pretty weak connections. The word "mystery" would never cross my mind when describing Sailor Moon; I don't think anything about her has ever been mysterious. Even her secret identity as the moon princess was something anyone could have figured out in about 2 chapters.

I'd choose a title like "purity."

_________________
Check out my blog for comparison pictures and analysis of Kodansha's Sailor Moon manga re-release!
http://secondchancesmoon.blogspot.com/


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Why is Sailor Moon the "guardian of mystery?"
PostPosted: Wed May 16, 2012 4:39 pm 
Bitten by Chibiusa 49 months ago
inactive
User avatar
Joined: Oct 31, 2011
Posts: 808
Location: Earth
Rika-Chicchi wrote:
Raven Nightshade wrote:
Sailor Mercury is the guardian of wisdom because Hermes/Mercury is a god of wisdom(one of his lesser domains), despite it being more closely associated with Athena/Minerva. It'd be more accurate to call her a guardian of intellect since intelligence is a related yet larger domain that Hermes/Mercury embodies(of which wisdom can be considered a subset), but it doesn't have the same ring to it.

It's really translated as "intellect" - see the 2nd paragraph of her WikiMoon article:

http://wikimoon.org/index.php?title=Sailor_Mercury


That's what I figure it should have been in the first place, but in NQS's article it's back to being wisdom, and then both TokyoPop and Kodansha use wisdom instead of intellect. So, the fandom's going to see it as Soldier of Wisdom.

_________________
I disapprove of what you say, but I will defend to the death your right to say it.
-- S.G. Tallentyre, author of Voltaire's biography, The Friends of Voltaire


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Why is Sailor Moon the "guardian of mystery?"
PostPosted: Tue Nov 28, 2017 7:52 pm 
Luna
Luna
User avatar
Years of membershipYears of membershipYears of membershipYears of membershipYears of membershipYears of membershipYears of membershipYears of membershipYears of membershipYears of membershipYears of membershipYears of membershipYears of membershipYears of membership
Joined: Sep 22, 2003
Posts: 966
Location: NY, NY
Rika-Chicchi wrote:
1dbad wrote:
Moon isn't mysterious, but her powers are, so I always assumed that was the reason.

Yeah, the Silver Crystal is mysterious, as reflected in its full name. :)


I think you have something there. I've been studying Japanese feminists and one of the most influential feminist essays is titled "In the Beginning, Woman was the Sun." In the essay, Raicho Hiratsuka talks about shining bright like the sun aka women's empowerment. She also talks about spiritual fulfillment---that spiritual focus helps us realize "mystery."

So, Naoko is probably referring attaining a higher sense of being. In other words, Sailor Moon is the Goddess of Spiritual Fulfillment--which is why Solider of Sanctity makes a bit more sense instead of Soldier of Mystery.


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Why is Sailor Moon the "guardian of mystery?"
PostPosted: Tue Nov 28, 2017 9:05 pm 
Solaris Luna
Solaris Luna
User avatar
Years of membershipYears of membershipYears of membershipYears of membershipYears of membership
Joined: Mar 08, 2012
Posts: 2627
Gender: Agender
It would be helpful to know what word was used in the Japanese text that got translated as "mystery" to see if it has the same usage, but the English word mystery can also refer to a sacrament, a religious truth, or a (secret) religious ritual/cult. Given that the following arc wherein Sailor Moon acts as the "Guardian of Mystery" deals heavily with religious symbolism/imagery, that may be the reasoning?

_________________
I will right wrongs and triumph over evil, and that means Trump! #NotMyPresident

It's = It Is. Its = Possessive form of It.

Image


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Why is Sailor Moon the "guardian of mystery?"
PostPosted: Tue Nov 28, 2017 9:20 pm 
Columnae Creationis
Columnae Creationis
User avatar
Years of membershipYears of membershipYears of membershipYears of membershipYears of membershipYears of membershipYears of membershipYears of membership
Joined: May 07, 2009
Posts: 37829
Gender: Male
Cordelia LeFay wrote:
Rika-Chicchi wrote:
1dbad wrote:
Moon isn't mysterious, but her powers are, so I always assumed that was the reason.

Yeah, the Silver Crystal is mysterious, as reflected in its full name. :)


I think you have something there. I've been studying Japanese feminists and one of the most influential feminist essays is titled "In the Beginning, Woman was the Sun." In the essay, Raicho Hiratsuka talks about shining bright like the sun aka women's empowerment. She also talks about spiritual fulfillment---that spiritual focus helps us realize "mystery."

So, Naoko is probably referring attaining a higher sense of being. In other words, Sailor Moon is the Goddess of Spiritual Fulfillment--which is why Solider of Sanctity makes a bit more sense instead of Soldier of Mystery.
MementoNepenthe wrote:
It would be helpful to know what word was used in the Japanese text that got translated as "mystery" to see if it has the same usage, but the English word mystery can also refer to a sacrament, a religious truth, or a (secret) religious ritual/cult. Given that the following arc wherein Sailor Moon acts as the "Guardian of Mystery" deals heavily with religious symbolism/imagery, that may be the reasoning?

I think both of you have got a point there: the word in the context of the show has always got a spiritual, religious feel to me too, not just meaning something unknown/incomprehensible. :)

_________________
 
Image

Avatar courtesy of ayaka502 (enhanced by Senji-kun)
My J-pop corner


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Why is Sailor Moon the "guardian of mystery?"
PostPosted: Tue Nov 28, 2017 9:59 pm 
Solaris Luna
Solaris Luna
User avatar
Years of membershipYears of membershipYears of membershipYears of membershipYears of membership
Joined: Jul 31, 2012
Posts: 2693
Location: Outer Space
Gender: Biseinen Angel
Other: Kuiper Belt
Could it be because Sailor Moon never existed in those times. To me she is the mysterious guardian of love and Justice. It could also tie into how she used to wear a mask. Even the silver Crystal is mysterious.


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Why is Sailor Moon the "guardian of mystery?"
PostPosted: Wed Nov 29, 2017 12:19 am 
Solaris Luna
Solaris Luna
User avatar
Years of membershipYears of membership
Joined: May 01, 2015
Posts: 2415
Location: Pikari-gaoka
Gender: Female
Other: Married to TWS91
Star Angel Haruki wrote:
Could it be because Sailor Moon never existed in those times. To me she is the mysterious guardian of love and Justice. It could also tie into how she used to wear a mask. Even the silver Crystal is mysterious.


This is a double post!

_________________
Image
"Dreams are hopeless aspirations in hopes of coming true, believe in yourself, the rest is up me and you"
July is Chibi Chibi Month! :chibichibi:


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Why is Sailor Moon the "guardian of mystery?"
PostPosted: Wed Nov 29, 2017 12:23 am 
Luna
Luna
User avatar
Years of membershipYears of membershipYears of membershipYears of membershipYears of membershipYears of membershipYears of membershipYears of membershipYears of membershipYears of membershipYears of membershipYears of membershipYears of membershipYears of membership
Joined: Sep 22, 2003
Posts: 966
Location: NY, NY
SailorHell wrote:
In the newest volume of the manga, after Death Phantom is defeated, Neo Queen Serenity grants all the senshi new powers. She names each one with their title, like "Sailor Mars, Gaurdian of War; Sailor Mercury, Guardian of Wisdom," etc. When she gets to Sailor Moon, she calls her the "Guardian of Mystery." I was sure that this was a mistake on Flanagan's part, but lo and behold, the original Japanese really does say mystery. The word is shinpi 神秘 and as far I know, there is only one meaning for it.

Tokyopop translated this segment as "Soldier of Sanctity," which certainly makes more sense to me, but is not accurate.

So why is Sailor Moon the Guardian of Mystery?


Here's part of the "In the beginning, woman was the sun" essay in Japanese. The word "shinpi" is used. I bolded the line that uses the same "mystery" kanji.

併し私として此真夏の日盛の中から生まれた「青鞜」が極熱をもよく熱殺するだけ、それだけ猛烈な熱誠を有つていると云ふことを見逃すものではない。
熱誠!熱誠!私共は只これによるのだ。
熱性とは祈祷力である。意志の力である。禅定力である、神道力である。云ひ換へれば精神集注力である。
神秘に通ずる唯一の門を精神集注と云ふ。(中略)
私は精神集中の只中に天才を求めやうと思ふ。
天才とは神秘そのものである。真正の人である。(以下略)


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Why is Sailor Moon the "guardian of mystery?"
PostPosted: Wed Nov 29, 2017 7:18 pm 
Columnae Creationis
Columnae Creationis
User avatar
Years of membershipYears of membershipYears of membershipYears of membershipYears of membershipYears of membershipYears of membershipYears of membership
Joined: May 07, 2009
Posts: 37829
Gender: Male
^ "神" literally means "god," whereas "秘" literally means "secret." So "神秘" does incorporate both the "god-like" & "secretive" elements in its meaning. :)

_________________
 
Image

Avatar courtesy of ayaka502 (enhanced by Senji-kun)
My J-pop corner


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Why is Sailor Moon the "guardian of mystery?"
PostPosted: Sun Dec 03, 2017 10:16 am 
Aurorae Lunares
Aurorae Lunares
User avatar
Years of membershipYears of membershipYears of membershipYears of membershipYears of membershipYears of membershipYears of membership
Joined: Jan 02, 2010
Posts: 1010
Because she’s mysterious as the dark side of the moon.

_________________
Image


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Why is Sailor Moon the "guardian of mystery?"
PostPosted: Sun Dec 03, 2017 2:19 pm 
Luna Crescens
Luna Crescens
User avatar
Months of membershipMonths of membershipMonths of membershipMonths of membershipMonths of membershipMonths of membershipMonths of membershipMonths of membership
Joined: Apr 01, 2017
Posts: 228
Location: D-Point
Gender: Female
Because her powers were made by sticking together the leftover bits of everybody else's flavors at the star seed factory.
Image

_________________
Image ~ Heir to the Dork Kingdom ~


Top
 Profile  
 
Display posts from previous:  Sort by  
Post new topic Reply to topic  [ 24 posts ] 

All times are UTC


Who is online

Moonies browsing this forum: Danzig87 and 18 guests



Search for:
Jump to:  
Powered by phpBB

contact forum administrator