Sailor Moon Forum

Brought up in the Announcement thread, I'm not sure if it's been discussed, and I'm frankly too tired/lazy to look.



So is it really reincarnation? Or are there two entities occupying the same body in a symbiotic relationship? Do you think that senshi's present selves will eventually erode away in favor of their past selves? And how do the Sailor Crystals fit into all of this?

Discuss.

NO actually is 1 spirit: 2 bodies, its the same person being reincarnated thorught time and space

I think Usagi is just the reincarnation of Serenity but with Serenity's spirit in her body too which is only awaken by use of the silver crystal

That sounds pretty much like Princess Sailor Moon in PGSM. l o l

Fixed.

Hmm..."PPSM" sounds good for the title of the new anime, which's targeted to the more matured audience (that's why Mitsuishi blogged she'll be her own enemy ).

It is, really, and I think that might be how it works in the manga and anime continuities.

With the manga, I've always thought of it as reincarnation, especially since Usagi and Serenity's personalities were so similar. When in comes to her anime version and PGSM, I still think she could have the same spirit. Since people's personalities are greatly effected by the environment they grew up in, and can change as their environments change, I've always thought that might be why Usagi's personality differed so greatly from Serenity in those continuities.

I don't think so in regards to PGSM, since there are scenes of Princess Sailor Moon talking to Usagi, and then in the last episode she seems to leave her body. I was under the impression that, after that episode's events, all the spirits of the past life left their modern hosts and went on to the afterlife. So, from now on, Usagi is just Usagi, etc.

Perhaps they have the same soul, but not the same spirit, or something like that?

Nah, I don't think so. What you're thinking of is either more of Yugi/Yami Yugi thing, or a fusion, like Gogeta.

So there they are. The chaos cultists are enacting another foul ritual to tear away at the barriers separating the material realm from the horrors of the warp. Already hordes of lesser demons are battering the imperial crusaders, guardsmen are falling left and right to bloodletters and horrors, and terrible fungi grow on the dead, courtesy of nurgle, releasing spores carrying Nurgle's new violent disease. Slaanesh as usual isn't invited.

The heretics however need something larger to seal the deal, and to save them from the inevitable astartes counterattack that they got to know of via capturing a vox broadcast from the loyalist forces.


Everything was prepared. The aspiring champion begins to float up into the air, blood dripping from the many ritual wounds he suffered. Warp energies begin to converge and engulf the willing sacrifice. His flesh starts breaking and remolds upon the whims of the ruinous powers. His mind gives up all resistance and basks in the glory of hosting one of the blessed Daemon Princes, truly gifted individuals who once carried out magnificent and terrible deeds gaining the favor of the chaos gods, and as such, were gifted with becoming daemonkind. Before his soul was taken away, one image floated before the champion's eyes:


When the clouds dispersed, the servants of chaos were horrified. It was not the daemon they summoned. It was not the corrupted entity they needed, not the terrible strategist who could tip the scales in their favor.

It was someone completely different.

It was Sailor Moon.

Precisely. New packaging, same product.

All that's really different are memories and life experiences.

This is really something I really hope gets explored far more in the new series. Even the English dub placed far more empthasis on the whole dual identity issue and delt with it with far more consistancy then the original anime did, really this is the one thing that attracted me to Sailor Moon more then anything else growing up, the hope that it would get past the MotD format and focus more on Serenity's identity crisis and emotional issues in a serious fashion. I'm really not happy with the way the original anime handled Usagi's character at all, she changes personality so abruptly and ambiguously all the time that her transformation into Serenity felt almost meaningless; all the other versions give her far more character depth and due to this her emotional breakdowns are so much more authentic and meaningful in general. I mean, looking at the opening sequence of the show you get the impression that it's going to spend far more time being epic then it actually does, this false advertising caused me so much dissapointment.

Princess Serenity and Usagi are two different "shells". Her soul was sent to a new shell once she died, despite Usagi and Serenity looking alike to our point of view Usagi's real appearance is in no way a blonde hair blue eyed fully Japanese person. They don't exist.

PSM is like a ghost full of grudge - someone should produce an outright horror version of Sailor Moon, like "Sailor Moon Grudge". l o l

which would really scare me since PSM freaks me out

I think so. Their experiences make them act differently, and when she transforms it often seems like switching personas. But towards the end, she becomes a balance of both her personas, doesn't she?

You talking anime/manga or PGSM?

Thought this video belongs here as a reference to what makes my mind's gears working.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zT_vcm7eKIc

Thaddeus reflects on losing his old self at each victory.

Very much like sailor moon!

But different memories and life experiences are what make people different in the first place, no?

I mean I guess saying it's the same "soul" is a good enough 'hand wave' for some of the serious implications of reincarnation, but personally I found the anime and manga's views on the soul as incredibly reductive, and I much preffered the way PGSM handled the dichotomy between past self and present self. I hope the new anime develops this further.

That's pretty true.


Actually the meaning of "soul" is pretty fuzzy & abstract, & subject to the different understandings or, if you like, subjective feelings of different persons.

I agree the soul is a very abstract and subjective thing, however, that's why I disliked the anime and manga's take on it as it was basically --Usagi (a 14-year-old ordinary girl living in modern day Tokyo) is the reincarnation of Princess Serenity (a princess who lived in a highly-advanced kingdom in the moon) and is somehow the same person? Logically, living in those radically different circumstances does not produce the same person. Which is why it made sense in PGSM that Princess Serenity was a cold-hearted b$@!~ whereas Usagi was more idealistic even after all the bad stuff that was going around her (it also explains the coldness in Sailor Venus' personality in PGSM).

I guess this is kind of going into a nature vs. nurture debate... Does Usagi act the way she does because of her soul (instead of DNA) or because she was raised that way?

It's the result of the interaction between nature & nurture (here I also include the environment of fetal development, which's pretty determinant, into the latter).

I think w/ the current advances in neuroscience/neuropsychology & genetics, the old nature-vs-nurture debate should've already been a thing of the past.

Usagi and Serenity still have the same basic personality, though: Cheerful, happy-go-lucky, daydreaming, easily smitten, childish, etc. -- I wouldn't be surprised if Serenity also turned out to be both naive and a crybaby too.

In spite of her royal upbringings, Serenity seemed to act rather abnormal for how a princess should act like, from what little we've seen of her (mostly from the manga). Breaking the rules by sneaking off to Earth, going behind the backs of her Guardian Senshi doing so, mockingly sticking her tongue out at Venus, all of which are very unladylike for royalty to have.

She's a rantipole princess! l o l (Note that I actually mean "rantipole," not " l o l ," here. )

Right, in the anime/manga. Not in PGSM, though. SakuyamonX is arguing that PGSM's take makes more sense because it shows how different life circumstances might make "the same person" develop into two totally different people.

As for Venus' coldness in PGSM, I agree she's that way because of how life circumstances have molded her, and in this case I think one of those life circumstances is learning about her past life in the first place. She's already having a rough time because of her illness, but then she finds out about this past life thing and that she was reborn specifically to fulfill this mission (at least, that's what she's led to believe--others, like Rei, disagree with this assertion and think they were reborn to have a second chance at living). When I put myself in her shoes, I think it would be easy, even comforting, to fall into the habit Minako did. When you find out about all these responsibilities from the past life, you think, "Well, what's the point? My interests and hobbies, my friends, the things that make me me, the past life mission takes precedence over all of it. So why should I bother making friends? Why should I bother getting surgery so I can live? Why should I even bother living? The whole point of my life is just to do this job." So then it becomes an easy excuse to not keep fighting to do the things that might be hard, like undergoing a risky surgery or putting yourself out to make friends. But deep down, I don't think she really likes this, because she keeps chickening out when it comes to keeping Usagi away from Mamoru, or seeing Makoto throwing her relationship with Motoki away. It's fine to use that excuse on herself, but she doesn't like it so much when she sees her friends suffering because of it.

That's why I love PGSM's Minako so much, even though I know a lot of people don't like her and think she's a bitch. She's not really a bitch; she's just reacting to the knowledge of the past life in her own way. PGSM showed each of the Senshi coming to grips with the knowledge that they're reincarnations in different ways. Rei outright rejects it. Usagi feels torn, because she understands the implications of her past life, but she loves her life now, her family and friends and Mamoru; she wants to find a way to work around it. Makoto tries to force herself to be beholden to the mission because she thinks she should, but deep down, she doesn't want to. Minako becomes bull-headed about it, and it causes her to lose all faith in her current life. The only one whose reaction we don't know much about is Ami's, because she's so introverted and keeps her feelings on the subject to herself.

We also see the Shitennou and Mamoru reacting to the past life, with Zoisite embracing it fully, Jadeite confused over it, Nephrite outright rejecting it and Kunzite vowing to avenge it, wanting to destroy everyone involved in it, including himself. One of the main tenants of PGSM is the way people cope with learning about their past lives, and I think it's a very interesting and realistic interpretation. Most people I know wouldn't be like, "OKAY COOL, DESTINY." Many would reject it, because we want to believe we control our own destiny. If I were in this situation, I would surely react like Rei, because I don't believe in predestination--I believe in free will. So that's why I loved PGSM's take on reincarnation, and I would like to see an exploration of that in the new anime (although I can live without it, since I think PGSM did a good job of it so I can always fall back to that).

So... are Serenity and Usagi genetically identical? If they did a DNA test would Usagi's DNA show her to be the child of Ikuko and Kenji?

In common sense, I'd say they're genetically different - how could it be otherwise? l o l

[EDIT]
@Donut: So PGSM Minako is an escapist!

Princess Serenity breaking the rules is not really out of the norm. Anyone raised in an environment that is full of rules and regulations are more likely to rebel and break out of their shell. I've seen many people who lived in a strict household become party animals once they get into college because of the sudden lack of restrictions. Not all princesses are going to act the same. Some thrive under the strict environment while others feel this need to rebel because they feel suffocated.