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 Post subject: Re: [US] Sailor Moon S Viz Media Dub/Blu-Ray
PostPosted: Thu Nov 17, 2016 10:39 am 
Systema Solare
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^They do? That's news to me.

Looks like some other people have called them out on it with no responses.

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 Post subject: Re: [US] Sailor Moon S Viz Media Dub/Blu-Ray
PostPosted: Thu Nov 17, 2016 8:12 pm 
Lumen Cinereum
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New day, new clips.







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 Post subject: Re: [US] Sailor Moon S Viz Media Dub/Blu-Ray
PostPosted: Thu Nov 17, 2016 8:46 pm 
Galaxias
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In the first clip, I wish Erica Mendez had been able to make her voice sound a little more gender-neutral, as Haruka still sounds very obviously like a female when she supposed to be mistaken for a male by Minako and Usagi.

And, Minako's still putting too much emphasis on the first syllable of her own name.


For the second video, since they seem to have chosen to pronounce Kaolinite's name in the way the name of the mineral she's named after is said in English ("Kay-oh-lih-night"), they better stick to the Japanese pronunciation of her later civilian name "Kaori" as "kah-oh-ree", as that would help to enhance Usagi's falsely thinking that Kaori and Kaolinite aren't the same person.

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 Post subject: Re: [US] Sailor Moon S Viz Media Dub/Blu-Ray
PostPosted: Thu Nov 17, 2016 9:08 pm 
Lumen Cinereum
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Even more clips!







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 Post subject: Re: [US] Sailor Moon S Viz Media Dub/Blu-Ray
PostPosted: Thu Nov 17, 2016 9:27 pm 
Galaxias
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I kinda wish Tara Platt would either make her voice sound just a pitch higher or make it sound a tad bit more "cuter" or "seductive", as she presently sounds too emotionless or too "woodenly evil", almost like it's obvious that she's reading from a script rather than sounding natural.

But it's not her fault, as I'm basically describing improvements that need to be made to the voice direction rather than Platt's acting.

Meanwhile, it's official: The Viz version of Professor Tomoe is basically Starscream. :tongue:

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 Post subject: Re: [US] Sailor Moon S Viz Media Dub/Blu-Ray
PostPosted: Thu Nov 17, 2016 10:02 pm 
Lumen Cinereum
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Sabrblade wrote:
I kinda wish Tara Platt would either make her voice sound just a pitch higher or make it sound a tad bit more "cuter" or "seductive", as she presently sounds too emotionless or too "woodenly evil", almost like it's obvious that she's reading from a script rather than sounding natural.

But it's not her fault, as I'm basically describing improvements that need to be made to the voice direction rather than Platt's acting.

I definitely. Here's a good comparison of the CWi Kaorinite and the Viz Kaolinite.





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 Post subject: Re: [US] Sailor Moon S Viz Media Dub/Blu-Ray
PostPosted: Thu Nov 17, 2016 10:26 pm 
Solaris Luna
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I think the problem with Tara's Kaolinite is they're trying too hard to make her sound distinct. They're probably afraid to let Tara run loose and really have fun with the part in case it sounds too much like Ikuko.

Could we get some Eudial clips next?


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 Post subject: Re: [US] Sailor Moon S Viz Media Dub/Blu-Ray
PostPosted: Thu Nov 17, 2016 10:39 pm 
Lumen Cinereum
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Last batch of clips for today.







Tomorrow, since we got a good enough feel of Viz's Kaolinite, I'll skip to disc three to feature Eudial and Chibiusa.


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 Post subject: Re: [US] Sailor Moon S Viz Media Dub/Blu-Ray
PostPosted: Thu Nov 17, 2016 11:12 pm 
Galaxias
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PokemonBWDub wrote:
Sabrblade wrote:
I kinda wish Tara Platt would either make her voice sound just a pitch higher or make it sound a tad bit more "cuter" or "seductive", as she presently sounds too emotionless or too "woodenly evil", almost like it's obvious that she's reading from a script rather than sounding natural.

But it's not her fault, as I'm basically describing improvements that need to be made to the voice direction rather than Platt's acting.

I definitely. Here's a good comparison of the CWi Kaorinite and the Viz Kaolinite.



Watching those two back-to-back, I cannot help but laugh at how ridiculously silly Uranus and Neptune sound in the Cloverway version. Their performance is so bad it's hilarious. :lol:

As for Kaolinite, she sounds kinda bored in the Cloverway version. I honestly think Tara Platt sounds good as a match for the part, but it's like the director is holding her back from really getting into the role and instead is making her give a performance that is a little too reserved.

Same with a few of Rei's lines in those latest videos of yours. There are points where she sounds like she could say her lines so much better but was told not to.

It's almost like the director is afraid of letting the actors really give it their all out of an irrational fear of the Viz dub being accused by the fandom of being "too silly" or "too over-the-top" like the past dubs were.

And yet, performances like Professor Tomoe in the Viz go against that theory since it's evident from his performance that Keith Silverstein was given the freedom to go all in and just have a ball with his role.

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 Post subject: Re: [US] Sailor Moon S Viz Media Dub/Blu-Ray
PostPosted: Thu Nov 17, 2016 11:32 pm 
Solaris Luna
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Sabrblade wrote:
Watching those two back-to-back, I cannot help but laugh at how ridiculously silly Uranus and Neptune sound in the Cloverway version. Their performance is so bad it's hilarious. :lol:


I think over than their ridiculous speeches, they sound fine.

I still can't stand Tomoe's new voice. He sounds like a straight up sex offender, and nobody can tell me otherwise.


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 Post subject: Re: [US] Sailor Moon S Viz Media Dub/Blu-Ray
PostPosted: Thu Nov 17, 2016 11:48 pm 
Lumen Cinereum
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Well Viz just hit some of my videos. I'm not surprised, but I thought they wouldn't mind short clips. I still have them all but now this means no more fancy thumbnails. :(


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 Post subject: Re: [US] Sailor Moon S Viz Media Dub/Blu-Ray
PostPosted: Fri Nov 18, 2016 12:21 am 
Galaxias
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Umino wrote:
Sabrblade wrote:
Watching those two back-to-back, I cannot help but laugh at how ridiculously silly Uranus and Neptune sound in the Cloverway version. Their performance is so bad it's hilarious. :lol:


I think over than their ridiculous speeches, they sound fine.
They sound like they're bellowing everything they say, almost as though they so desperately wanted to sing, rather than speak, their lines but weren't allowed to.

Umino wrote:
I still can't stand Tomoe's new voice. He sounds like a straight up sex offender, and nobody can tell me otherwise.
To me, he sounds like this:


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 Post subject: Re: [US] Sailor Moon S Viz Media Dub/Blu-Ray
PostPosted: Fri Nov 18, 2016 12:25 am 
Luna
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5 seconds of listening to the Dr.Tomoe clip


I miss Jeff Lumby :/


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 Post subject: Re: [US] Sailor Moon S Viz Media Dub/Blu-Ray
PostPosted: Fri Nov 18, 2016 12:55 am 
Planeta
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Both Barbara Radecki and Sarah LaFleur are good actors, but they sucked as Michiru and Haruka. Hell, almost everyone in the old Cloverway dub was a good and capable performer, but the directing was so non-existent, they all sounded off. Kirsten Bishop was excellent casting as Kaolinite, and she probably would've sounded excellent under Tracey Moore, Roland Parliament, and/or John Stocker's direction, but even she sounded pretty awkward here. The only performances that I thought turned out fine were Stephanie Beard as Rini, Jeff Lumby as Tomoe, Susan Roman as Lita, and some of the monsters-of-the-day. It's seriously one of the sloppiest and most poorly-acted dubs I've ever heard, and I'm usually pretty forgiving. Almost anything would be an improvement from that mess.


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 Post subject: Re: [US] Sailor Moon S Viz Media Dub/Blu-Ray
PostPosted: Fri Nov 18, 2016 1:09 am 
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The CWi dub gets way too many passes from fans. Yeah, it was more "faithful" to the Japanese counterpart, but even that treatment was selective (I can't take any kudos for it seriously when one episode uses the word "phat" in a conversation between children). And they still messed up names and attacks on the regular. But yes, the direction was downright awful and rushed, and it was primarily why the CWi dub should remain in the vault.

I can't say the Viz dub is much better so far in regards to Haruka and Michiru. Both Harukas are mediocre, and this new Michiru is so forgettable. Vocally, they have no charisma.

Tomoe's dub voice is... more creepy than his Japanese counterpart. Not even in a comical way, but in a lewd way. I wonder how he'll sound as Papa Tomoe.

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 Post subject: Re: [US] Sailor Moon S Viz Media Dub/Blu-Ray
PostPosted: Fri Nov 18, 2016 1:25 am 
Planeta
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The dub clearly had no head writer, or writing team, and episodes seemed to be just given out at random to different writers that just did what they wanted. It's why the attacks and transformation phrases were so different, and why some episodes were faithfully adapted, and why some were no different than anything from DiC. Actually, Lisa Lumby-Richards was one of the writers during the DiC seasons, and she just continued on doing her thing with the episodes she was given here.

This is far from the only "rushed" anime English dub, but at least studios like Ocean, FUNimation, ADV, Animaze, and TAJ Productions knew what they were doing. Optimum clearly didn't, and that's why this project suffered so much worse. DiC, as silly and dated as their dub is now, at least had some proper management over the project, and their episodes do at least come across as more polished and professional.

I agree that the Viz dub isn't perfect (they did a much better job with Crystal), but I think it's at least up to standard. I'll take a "pretty good" English dub over an atrocious one any day.


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 Post subject: Re: [US] Sailor Moon S Viz Media Dub/Blu-Ray
PostPosted: Fri Nov 18, 2016 1:36 am 
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Cwi's S dub only had two writers and there was far too many errors and mistakes to just blame it on different writers.

Heck look at how many errors and inconsistencies the lost episodes and the movies had and they only had Lisa Lumby Richards.


I'm even going to go out on the limb and say we only got as much faithful translating from the Cloverway era as we did because the dub was rushed and they couldn't be bothered to
do heavy rewrites on a time crunch.


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 Post subject: Re: [US] Sailor Moon S Viz Media Dub/Blu-Ray
PostPosted: Fri Nov 18, 2016 1:46 am 
Solaris Luna
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What people fail to realize, is that the CWI dub most likely used English scripts originally translated by Toei. These scripts were used in other dubs (infamously, the Swedish dub) and had really bad quality. It's obvious the staff weren't huge fans of the franchise, so they probably couldn't pick up on all the mistakes and inconsistencies. A lot of fans really exaggerate too, since the DIC dub had issues with consistency as well.

Nobody ever mentions that the SS was fairly consistent, especially with series terminology.


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 Post subject: Re: [US] Sailor Moon S Viz Media Dub/Blu-Ray
PostPosted: Fri Nov 18, 2016 2:04 am 
Luna
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Well yeah the DiC era had its own issues with consistency: Not knowing what Jupiter's
attack is called, the first 3 or so episodes of the Rina arc having Serena say "Moon Star Power" calling the black crystal the star crystal and then the dark crystal. The Silver Imperyium Crystal being called Silver Moon Crystal a couple
times, occasionally confusing Mars Fire Ignite with Mars Fireballs Charge (and that one time they called it Mars Firestorm Flash). "Prince" Darien not knowing the name Darien. To say nothing of the Lost Episode era where they started randomly throwing Sailor Soldiers at us when they felt like it, Moon Scepter Elimination became Moon Scepter Activation, Mercury Ice storm blast became Shine Aqua Illusion and Mercury Ice bubbles freeze became Mercury Ice Storm Blast.


But it was definitely on another level in S. They did step up their game in SuperS to be somewhere between the syndicated episodes and the lost episodes in the consistency department.


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 Post subject: Re: [US] Sailor Moon S Viz Media Dub/Blu-Ray
PostPosted: Fri Nov 18, 2016 2:13 am 
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Umino wrote:
What people fail to realize, is that the CWI dub most likely used English scripts originally translated by Toei. These scripts were used in other dubs (infamously, the Swedish dub) and had really bad quality. It's obvious the staff weren't huge fans of the franchise, so they probably couldn't pick up on all the mistakes and inconsistencies. A lot of fans really exaggerate too, since the DIC dub had issues with consistency as well.

Nobody ever mentions that the SS was fairly consistent, especially with series terminology.


The first batch of DiC episodes had some inconsistencies in say attack names, but nowhere to the level of CWi's SuperS dub. For instance, "Mars Fire Ignite" was usually "Mars Fire Ignite" in the original batch, except for the rare occasion, i.e., when Mars fought Catzi/Koan for the first time and said "Mars Firestorm Flash" or whatever. The "lost" episodes in R is where the inconsistencies really started to get bad (Moon Sceptre Elimination because Moon Scepter Activation, Mercury Ice Storm Blast became Shine Aqua Illusion, etc.).

Then in CWi's dub, you had the weirdest instances of name changing. Attack names were different from episode to next episode, and then even changed within the same episode (from Mars [Celestial] Fire Surround to Mega Mars Fire Rings Flash). Which is sad since nearly every attack name uses English words. And I don't even know why they bothered including all the "hip" jargon and slang in scenes. To appeal to kids? This is a show for kids to begin with so there was no need to do all that. It goes to show out of touch the writers were, and yes, they probably didn't care that much for the franchise. It shows in their work.

The CWi staff did the best they could with the time and resources they had. Unfortunately, their best can be deemed quite bad by a lot of general ideas of standards.

The Viz dub isn't my cup of tea (and I don't hate all dubs... I'd almost rather watch the old Ranma dub than the Japanese version sometimes), but I'd still take its dub over the CWi one.

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 Post subject: Re: [US] Sailor Moon S Viz Media Dub/Blu-Ray
PostPosted: Fri Nov 18, 2016 2:25 am 
Solaris Luna
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LifeGaveMeLemons wrote:
But it was definitely on another level in S.


Well, yeah. It wasn't just attacks, it was names of the Talisman, names of the enemies, etc.

My biggest issue with the original S dub (aside from the "cousin" fiasco) was how they handled the Death Busters. "Heart Snatchers" is actually a cool name, especially when you consider the fact it's a reference to "Invasion of the Body Snatchers". The problem is that the Sailor Scouts actually coined this name for their new enemy. It started out as their little nickname for them, but then it became their official name. Nobody ever brings this up, but that's probably the worst script error in the entire series.

Getting back to the topic on hand, I'm still not impressed with Viz's attempts. Yeah, it's eliminating two major problems from the old dub, but the voice acting is still lackluster, and they're still making questionable script changes.


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 Post subject: Re: [US] Sailor Moon S Viz Media Dub/Blu-Ray
PostPosted: Fri Nov 18, 2016 2:30 am 
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Both the DiC and Cloverway had the "let's be hip" dialog. It just went from the valley girl speak to gangsta speak that was popular in the 2000s.


Both DiC and Cloverway outsourced the writing to Optimum anyways. DiC just seemed more involved (if Fred Ladd is to believed they had a writer create a hip English script and then Optimum would modify it for ADR it seems like Cloverway just
left it to Optimum entirely) . Cloverway didn't seem nearly as concerned with censorship as long it met Toonami's standards and practices and kept conservative groups off their backs.


@Umino this is why I'm just gonna stick to the subs. Such a shame Funimation didn't get the license or Geneon when they were active.


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 Post subject: Re: [US] Sailor Moon S Viz Media Dub/Blu-Ray
PostPosted: Fri Nov 18, 2016 2:32 am 
Solaris Luna
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PteraRanger wrote:
The first batch of DiC episodes had some inconsistencies in say attack names, but nowhere to the level of CWi's SuperS dub. For instance, "Mars Fire Ignite" was usually "Mars Fire Ignite" in the original batch, except for the rare occasion, i.e., when Mars fought Catzi/Koan for the first time and said "Mars Firestorm Flash" or whatever. The "lost" episodes in R is where the inconsistencies really started to get bad (Moon Sceptre Elimination because Moon Scepter Activation, Mercury Ice Storm Blast became Shine Aqua Illusion, etc.)


The Black Crystal was given atleast three names, the terms "Negaverse" and "Negaforce" were interchangeable, same with "Negamoon" and "Dark Moon". Then of course there's "Moon Star Power" in a few episodes of R. Jupiter's attack changed nearly every episode of the DIC dub.

Quote:
Then in CWi's dub, you had the weirdest instances of name changing. Attack names were different from episode to next episode, and then even changed within the same episode (from Mars [Celestial] Fire Surround to Mega Mars Fire Rings Flash).


Not... quite. Even if you look on smuncensored, you can see the attacks didn't change that often. Or if they did, it wasn't anything super major. One episode, it'd be "World Shaking", the next it'd be "Uranus World Shaking". Jupiter had it the worse, with "Sparkling Wide Pressure" getting three names in S. In the case of "Mega Mars Fire Rings Flash", the writers obviously wanted to differentiate due to the power-up. Yeah it's stupid, but even the Japanese version had Jupiter randomly going "Super Supreme Thunder" (or was it Super Sparkling Wide Pressure?) in a random episode. And nobody ever bats an eye at the fact Usagi says "Moon Cosmic Power" in episode 125.

Quote:
And I don't even know why they bothered including all the "hip" jargon and slang in scenes. To appeal to kids? This is a show for kids to begin with so there was no need to do all that. It goes to show out of touch the writers were, and yes, they probably didn't care that much for the franchise. It shows in their work.


Again, while I'm not a fan of all the dumb slang, it wasn't like it was exclusive to the CWI dub. There was as much dated slang and hip lingo in the DIC dub. Everyone was talking like a valley girl from episode 1.


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 Post subject: Re: [US] Sailor Moon S Viz Media Dub/Blu-Ray
PostPosted: Fri Nov 18, 2016 2:35 am 
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Just wanna say I do remember people actually saying dawg and kick it and da bomb and girlfriend and dissin in the early noughties. Not so much phat though.


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 Post subject: Re: [US] Sailor Moon S Viz Media Dub/Blu-Ray
PostPosted: Fri Nov 18, 2016 2:37 am 
Solaris Luna
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It's funny how people hate the old dub for dumb slang, and additional stupid dialogue... yet, they don't seem to call Viz out on it. The "purple pants" jokes would get ripped apart if they were in the DIC or CWI dub. Just saying. :roll:


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 Post subject: Re: [US] Sailor Moon S Viz Media Dub/Blu-Ray
PostPosted: Fri Nov 18, 2016 2:41 am 
Luna
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or the lame over 9000 gag (which doesn't make sense and I still don't get why Viz pandered to a meme that hasn't been funny in years but ignored a meme from their own show when they did the Snow White episode) 9


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 Post subject: Re: [US] Sailor Moon S Viz Media Dub/Blu-Ray
PostPosted: Fri Nov 18, 2016 3:34 am 
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These excerpts alone from 143, which I transcribed myself, are enough for me to not ever deal with the CWi dub. The DiC dub had its nauseous slang, but this doesn't even sound natural at all. If anything, the posers in my school were more prone to say this kinda OTT hip stuff than the actual cool kids. Then again, that might be the right idea considering it's Chibiusa and her friends... And the stuff they made the Trio say... no thank you to DudeBro Eye and DoucheBag Eye. Both dubs had bad scripts, but CWi takes the cake and shoves it in your face with certain episodes.

“He’s so fine!”
"Say, I was just wondering. Would you maybe want to kick it back with me?”
“He thinks you’re really phat!”
"You girls are totally buggin’!”
“Huh? You’re trippin’! This little loser?”
“What’s the matter with you? You’re totally buggin’!”
“Now I’m with you, bro.”
“I can’t wait to hook up with you, my sweet little soccer star.”
“Yeah, why? You said he was fly.”
“Well, if you think he’s cool then why are ya playin’ us?”
“I’m sure you’re a way tight soccer player!”

Some episodes barely even had much changed to them for the dub - why couldn't they adhere to that? Just because the DiC set had slang doesn't give CWi a free pass either.

And dropping "Uranus" from "Uranus World Shaking" is still a consistency error, regardless of how "small" it seems. It's either "World Shaking" or "Uranus World Shaking."

The Negaverse stuff is, well, stupid in its own right because the writers set up a hierarchy in their continuity that makes no sense in regards to the Negamoon.

Anyway, I'm gonna digress because while I abhor the CWi dub and I tolerate the DiC one, it's clear people here generally love them so we're just gonna not see eye to eye.

If I had to choose to between the Viz dub and the Japanese version, obviously I'm gonna go with the Japanese one. But I guess the Viz one would do in a pinch if I didn't want to read subtitles for some reason. The Viz actors sound better with Crystal, though. Maybe that'll be the case with Uranus and Neptune.

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 Post subject: Re: [US] Sailor Moon S Viz Media Dub/Blu-Ray
PostPosted: Fri Nov 18, 2016 3:45 am 
Solaris Luna
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PteraRanger wrote:
Some episodes barely even had much changed to them for the dub - why couldn't they adhere to that? Just because the DiC set had slang doesn't give CWi a free pass either.


Because of different writers, or because of the Toei scripts. I wouldn't be surprised if they got scripts that were so bad, they would basically have to work around it.


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 Post subject: Re: [US] Sailor Moon S Viz Media Dub/Blu-Ray
PostPosted: Fri Nov 18, 2016 9:30 pm 
Luna
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I just got my limited edition Blu Ray and I gotta say, the packaging looks 10x better in person.

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 Post subject: Re: [US] Sailor Moon S Viz Media Dub/Blu-Ray
PostPosted: Sat Nov 19, 2016 12:21 pm 
Systema Solare
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For those wondering about the cast interview extra on the Blu-ray, it was recorded at Anime Expo in July 2015 and has Stephanie Sheh, Cristina Vee, Amanda Miller, Cherami Leigh, Robbie Daymond, Sandy Fox & Ben Diskin and it's 13 minutes long. I guess we can call this Part 2 to what's on the first Crystal set because both interviews were recorded on the same day only with Sandy & Ben joining in for this one.

A bit of a note but Cristina confirms in this that she's the one who voiced Octave and that it's her first villain role.

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