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 Post subject: Thoughts on Interim Villains
PostPosted: Tue Oct 18, 2016 11:40 pm 
Lumen Cinereum
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Does an inclusion Interim Villain sound like an interesting idea for a Sailor Moon season or story.

An Interim Villain is basically a villain that takes up the role of main villain for a period of time before the original main villain(s) return to being the primary threat. They Interim Villain is not a member or allied with the original villain, but for one reason or another, the original villain is temporarily benched an the Interim Villain comes around to be the big problem and they have their own series of episodes before they are ultimately defeated and the main villain returns to finish the series.

My question is, does this idea, by itself, sound like something that would be interesting to see or is it better to have the same villain(s) from beginning to end.


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 Post subject: Re: Thoughts on Interim Villains
PostPosted: Wed Oct 19, 2016 5:41 pm 
Columnae Creationis
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I think the villains in the movies have kinda played the role of interim villains. :)

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 Post subject: Re: Thoughts on Interim Villains
PostPosted: Wed Oct 19, 2016 8:31 pm 
Lumen Cinereum
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We already have a few. The random criminals Sailor Venus hunts down in her free time (including between a season and the other), Ail and Anne, the movie villains, Nehellenia during the last season...

But if done well it could work. Especially because the manga already offers us a possible group: the Dark Agency Hawaiian Branch. Minako got on the wrong plane and only fought the one that chased her all the way to Greece, so as far as we know they're still there...

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 Post subject: Re: Thoughts on Interim Villains
PostPosted: Wed Oct 19, 2016 9:41 pm 
Lumen Cinereum
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lord Martiya wrote:
We already have a few. The random criminals Sailor Venus hunts down in her free time (including between a season and the other), Ail and Anne, the movie villains, Nehellenia during the last season...

But if done well it could work. Especially because the manga already offers us a possible group: the Dark Agency Hawaiian Branch. Minako got on the wrong plane and only fought the one that chased her all the way to Greece, so as far as we know they're still there...


Few corrections:

1) Ail and An aren't Interim Villains since they came after Dark Kingdom and before the Black Moon Clan. If they arrived during the Dark Kingdom and the Dark Kingdom was temorarily out of commission and then it returned after Ail and An were defeated, then the aliens would be Interim Villains. OR if they were in the manga, they could count as an Interim Villain if they had no relation to Chaos. However the primary villains in the 90s anime are not related in that manner.

2) Don't know what you mean by random villains Venus fights, but usually Interim Villains get some time in the spotlight and have a few episodes dedicated to them.

3) I'm not sure Nehellenia in Stars counts because on one hand the Shadow Galatica hadn't begun their assault yet and Nehellenia was still a villain continuing from last season. But on the other hand, she was released by Galaxia so she could attack Earth. But then that would involve Nehellenia being a puppet for Galaxia so she might not count as an Interim Villain.

4) This is just a tid-bit, but I am not sure that the movie villains count as canon.

5) Remember the Dark Agency was a branch of the Dark Kingdom so I think it's safe to say that their organization died with the parent corporation (Perhaps Minako defeated them before joining the other Senshi after the events of Codename: Sailor V).


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 Post subject: Re: Thoughts on Interim Villains
PostPosted: Thu Oct 20, 2016 9:14 pm 
Lumen Cinereum
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magic713 wrote:
2) Don't know what you mean by random villains Venus fights, but usually Interim Villains get some time in the spotlight and have a few episodes dedicated to them.

Well, Sailor Venus hunts down normal criminals as a hobby. If they need focus, then it could be a yakuza group or some other force that would need some time to be properly eradicated (such as terrorists), or Cutie Kenko.
magic713 wrote:
5) Remember the Dark Agency was a branch of the Dark Kingdom so I think it's safe to say that their organization died with the parent corporation (Perhaps Minako defeated them before joining the other Senshi after the events of Codename: Sailor V).

We don't know that destroying Metallia killed all youma. That said, Minako MAY have gone to Hawaii and destroyed them... But then again she would have to find a way to go there in the first place: even with her police connections, Minako is still a minor, and would need her parents' permission or even presence, and also to justify where the money comes from.

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 Post subject: Re: Thoughts on Interim Villains
PostPosted: Sat Feb 18, 2017 5:13 pm 
Lumen Cinereum
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Zirconia pretty much fits your definition of interim villan, doesn't she/it (lol)?


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 Post subject: Re: Thoughts on Interim Villains
PostPosted: Sat Feb 18, 2017 5:51 pm 
Lumen Cinereum
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SailorV-in-UK wrote:
Zirconia pretty much fits your definition of interim villan, doesn't she/it (lol)?

Not really. Zirconia is a member of the Dead Moon Circus and they were attacking Earth. Interim villains are usually independent of the main villains..


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 Post subject: Re: Thoughts on Interim Villains
PostPosted: Sat Feb 18, 2017 9:27 pm 
Lumen Cinereum
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magic713 wrote:
SailorV-in-UK wrote:
Zirconia pretty much fits your definition of interim villan, doesn't she/it (lol)?

Not really. Zirconia is a member of the Dead Moon Circus and they were attacking Earth. Interim villains are usually independent of the main villains..


Oh ok. Can you give us an example of an interim from another franchise (doesn't necesarily have to be from anime).


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 Post subject: Re: Thoughts on Interim Villains
PostPosted: Sat Feb 18, 2017 9:43 pm 
Lumen Cinereum
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SailorV-in-UK wrote:
magic713 wrote:
SailorV-in-UK wrote:
Zirconia pretty much fits your definition of interim villan, doesn't she/it (lol)?

Not really. Zirconia is a member of the Dead Moon Circus and they were attacking Earth. Interim villains are usually independent of the main villains..


Oh ok. Can you give us an example of an interim from another franchise (doesn't necesarily have to be from anime).

Sure. Christopher Nolan's Batman trilogy. In the first movie, the villain is the League of Shadows lead by Ra's al Ghul. In the third installment, it's again the League of Shadows, this time lead by Bane. But in the second movie, the villain is the Joker, who has no connection what so ever to the League of Shadows. The Joker, in this case, would be the Interim Villain of Nolan's Batman series.


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 Post subject: Re: Thoughts on Interim Villains
PostPosted: Sat Feb 18, 2017 10:57 pm 
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magic713 wrote:
SailorV-in-UK wrote:
magic713 wrote:
Not really. Zirconia is a member of the Dead Moon Circus and they were attacking Earth. Interim villains are usually independent of the main villains..


Oh ok. Can you give us an example of an interim from another franchise (doesn't necesarily have to be from anime).

Sure. Christopher Nolan's Batman trilogy. In the first movie, the villain is the League of Shadows lead by Ra's al Ghul. In the third installment, it's again the League of Shadows, this time lead by Bane. But in the second movie, the villain is the Joker, who has no connection what so ever to the League of Shadows. The Joker, in this case, would be the Interim Villain of Nolan's Batman series.


:question: :? :question:

magic713 wrote:
1) Ail and An aren't Interim Villains since they came after Dark Kingdom and before the Black Moon Clan. If they arrived during the Dark Kingdom and the Dark Kingdom was temorarily out of commission and then it returned after Ail and An were defeated, then the aliens would be Interim Villains. OR if they were in the manga, they could count as an Interim Villain if they had no relation to Chaos. However the primary villains in the 90s anime are not related in that manner.

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 Post subject: Re: Thoughts on Interim Villains
PostPosted: Tue Feb 21, 2017 5:47 am 
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Ail and An came during the window set after the Dark Kingdom was gone for good and before the Black Moon clan arrived. The difference between them and the Joker in that Dark Knight trilogy example is that Joker came after League of Shadows was temporarily beaten and before the very same League of Shadows came back to continue what it had started before its previous defeat.

In a nutshell:

Ail and An = Old villains (Dark Kingdom) permanently beaten --> New villains (Ail and An) come and go --> Newer villains (Black Moon) come

Joker = Old villains (League) temporarily beaten --> New villain (Joker) comes and goes --> Same Old villains (League) return to continue

That's why Ail and An don't count in this regard. They weren't substitute villains for the Dark Kingdom while the DK licked its wounds to return later. Rather, they were permanent replacements for the Dark Kingdom until yet another set of villains (the Black Moon) were to come and replace Ail and An.

The OP is asking about substitute villains that stand in for an earlier set of villains while said earlier villains are temporarily sidelined. In which case, the movie villains (or at least just those of the R and S movies, since those are the only two movies that cane fit into their respective seasons) would count since they each temporarily supplant the Black Moon and the Death Busters as the Sailor Senshi's main threats for the time being each time.

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 Post subject: Re: Thoughts on Interim Villains
PostPosted: Tue Feb 21, 2017 6:15 am 
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My apologies as I made an error in editing and pressed the post reply function which ended up in the cauldron to which my reply was if one were to consider the :usagi: PC engine game as part of the 90's anime timeline. :innocent:

viewtopic.php?f=35&t=29329

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 Post subject: Re: Thoughts on Interim Villains
PostPosted: Tue Feb 21, 2017 11:00 pm 
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The movie villains are basically the only interim villains in SM


Because yeah when I think interim villain I think villain that briefly takes over as primary threat before the main villain returns. Power Rangers doesn it pretty frequently.


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 Post subject: Re: Thoughts on Interim Villains
PostPosted: Tue Feb 21, 2017 11:01 pm 
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SailorV-in-UK wrote:
magic713 wrote:
SailorV-in-UK wrote:
Zirconia pretty much fits your definition of interim villan, doesn't she/it (lol)?

Not really. Zirconia is a member of the Dead Moon Circus and they were attacking Earth. Interim villains are usually independent of the main villains..


Oh ok. Can you give us an example of an interim from another franchise (doesn't necesarily have to be from anime).


Captain Mutiny from Power Rangers Lost Galaxy


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 Post subject: Re: Thoughts on Interim Villains
PostPosted: Tue Feb 21, 2017 11:55 pm 
Lumen Cinereum
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Back on track. So now that there are some examples of what an Interim Villain is, what would you guys think if Sailor Moon had to fight an Interim Villain in addition to the main villain?


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 Post subject: Re: Thoughts on Interim Villains
PostPosted: Wed Feb 22, 2017 2:09 am 
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magic713 wrote:
Back on track. So now that there are some examples of what an Interim Villain is, what would you guys think if Sailor Moon had to fight an Interim Villain in addition to the main villain?
I honestly think it could potentially work.

I mean, I don't mean to toot my own horn or anything, but awhile back, I wrote out some pretty lengthy write-ups for how I would do a 52-episode sixth season of the 90's anime, in which I made rather frequent usage of interim villains, both inside and outside of the main villain faction. Some of these interim villains even got their own mini-arcs set within the larger ongoing story arcs of the main story involving the main villains. Of course, this is all fanfiction-based territory and hardly anything official, but I do feel it serves as a fair example of how interim Sailor Moon villains could work. :smug:

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 Post subject: Re: Thoughts on Interim Villains
PostPosted: Wed Feb 22, 2017 9:48 pm 
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magic713 wrote:
Back on track. So now that there are some examples of what an Interim Villain is, what would you guys think if Sailor Moon had to fight an Interim Villain in addition to the main villain?

I am on hiatus on a manga-based fanfic with a similar premise, where Minako, between her return from China and the debut in the main manga, is mostly dealing with a different villain that, while nowhere as powerful as the Dark Kingdom, is pervasive enough to keep her hands full until shortly before Zoisite's death at her hands.

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 Post subject: Re: Thoughts on Interim Villains
PostPosted: Thu Feb 23, 2017 5:30 pm 
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Now I'm actually trying to come up with some good ideas for interim villains and where to put them.


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 Post subject: Re: Thoughts on Interim Villains
PostPosted: Thu Feb 23, 2017 10:11 pm 
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I definitely think that the movie villains could qualify as interim villains. As timeline wise according to Lunar Archivist the R movie happened after episode 79 but before episode 80 and as for S it most likely occurred between episodes 122 and 123. The only movie villains that wouldn't be interim villains would be Badiane and her people from the SuperS movie as it was implied that this movie happened in between Sailor Moon SuperS and before Sailor Moon Sailor Stars.

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 Post subject: Re: Thoughts on Interim Villains
PostPosted: Thu Feb 23, 2017 10:33 pm 
Lumen Cinereum
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A few ideas for interim villains:
  • Yakuza (for Minako).
  • Dark Kingdom remnants.
  • Aliens from the same race as Ail and Anne.
  • Some well-intentioned vigilante.
  • Evil wizards.
  • Government officials who think they're a danger due their collateral damage.
  • Homophobe organizations who pick up on Haruka and Michiru being lovers.

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 Post subject: Re: Thoughts on Interim Villains
PostPosted: Thu Feb 23, 2017 10:57 pm 
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Mine is the Senshi infiltrate the main villains' base for whatever reason. They reach the prison and find someone brutally restrained, begging for help. The girls free them and it turns out the prisoner is just as bad as the main villains and the main villains pull back their efforts on Earth because the prisoner will only hurt their efforts and they let the former captive act to their own devices which the Senshi have to contend with.


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 Post subject: Re: Thoughts on Interim Villains
PostPosted: Fri Feb 24, 2017 4:07 am 
Stella
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lord Martiya wrote:
A few ideas for interim villains:
  • Yakuza (for Minako).
  • Dark Kingdom remnants.
  • Aliens from the same race as Ail and Anne.
  • Some well-intentioned vigilante.
  • Evil wizards.
  • Government officials who think they're a danger due their collateral damage.
  • Homophobe organizations who pick up on Haruka and Michiru being lovers.

Personally I liked your idea for the Hawaiian Branch of the Dark Agency. That could maybe be a Codename Sailor V movie.

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 Post subject: Re: Thoughts on Interim Villains
PostPosted: Fri Feb 24, 2017 4:43 pm 
Luna Crescens
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Wasn't there a series of musicals where the villains were vampires? Also both the manga and the anime had (in different ways) Lilica Hubert the vampire girl. So my idea was to take this idea that already existed and make an anime story arc out of it. I must admit to still being a bit stuck as to with season to stick it in but have the main villains fade into the background a bit and a clan of vampires somehow become enemies of the senshi. If you want monsters of the day, either the vampires could simply make youma like monsters or have them be partially turned humans that need to be healed. Then again, it could be manga style where they simply fight and slowly kill members of the small yet powerful clan.


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 Post subject: Re: Thoughts on Interim Villains
PostPosted: Sat Feb 25, 2017 4:11 am 
Stella
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doctorwho29 wrote:
Wasn't there a series of musicals where the villains were vampires? Also both the manga and the anime had (in different ways) Lilica Hubert the vampire girl. So my idea was to take this idea that already existed and make an anime story arc out of it. I must admit to still being a bit stuck as to with season to stick it in but have the main villains fade into the background a bit and a clan of vampires somehow become enemies of the senshi. If you want monsters of the day, either the vampires could simply make youma like monsters or have them be partially turned humans that need to be healed. Then again, it could be manga style where they simply fight and slowly kill members of the small yet powerful clan.

Well in the 90s anime Lilica Hubert was not one of the Vampires from the Dracul arc of the Sera My. Rather she was possessed by a Vampire Lemures from the Dead Moon Circus and healed in the end. However as I have stated before I would have loved if they made the original Sera Myu stories and villains into seasons or movies such as the Dracul Arc, the Kaguya Island arc and the Dark Sirius arc.

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 Post subject: Re: Thoughts on Interim Villains
PostPosted: Sat Feb 25, 2017 8:27 am 
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doctorwho29 wrote:
Wasn't there a series of musicals where the villains were vampires?


Yes. It's great. Vampir is actually a lesbian who looks similar to my avatar Nao Yuuki from My-Hime. ^_^

doctorwho29 wrote:
Also both the manga and the anime had (in different ways) Lilica Hubert the vampire girl. So my idea was to take this idea that already existed and make an anime story arc out of it. I must admit to still being a bit stuck as to with season to stick it in but have the main villains fade into the background a bit and a clan of vampires somehow become enemies of the senshi. If you want monsters of the day, either the vampires could simply make youma like monsters or have them be partially turned humans that need to be healed. Then again, it could be manga style where they simply fight and slowly kill members of the small yet powerful clan.


The vampires and monsters in the musicals originated from a planet that never matured with its own sailor guardian. It's like Ben 10's vampires, mummies and werewolves were aliens.

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 Post subject: Re: Thoughts on Interim Villains
PostPosted: Sun Feb 26, 2017 11:58 pm 
Stella
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rgveda99 wrote:
doctorwho29 wrote:
Wasn't there a series of musicals where the villains were vampires?


Yes. It's great. Vampir is actually a lesbian who looks similar to my avatar Nao Yuuki from My-Hime. ^_^

doctorwho29 wrote:
Also both the manga and the anime had (in different ways) Lilica Hubert the vampire girl. So my idea was to take this idea that already existed and make an anime story arc out of it. I must admit to still being a bit stuck as to with season to stick it in but have the main villains fade into the background a bit and a clan of vampires somehow become enemies of the senshi. If you want monsters of the day, either the vampires could simply make youma like monsters or have them be partially turned humans that need to be healed. Then again, it could be manga style where they simply fight and slowly kill members of the small yet powerful clan.


The vampires and monsters in the musicals originated from a planet that never matured with its own sailor guardian. It's like Ben 10's vampires, mummies and werewolves were aliens.

How is Vampir a lesbian. I don't recall her having much romantic interests. However I will say this Bloody Dracul Vampir was the only Sera Myu only character to get an official 90s styled anime pic of her. It is a shame many of the others didn't get pics like these made from Toei.

Also I am pretty sure the Vampires in the musicals came from Earth. Death Vulcan and Vulcan though were the personifications of the planet Vulcan.

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 Post subject: Re: Thoughts on Interim Villains
PostPosted: Mon Feb 27, 2017 12:15 am 
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MariaTenebre wrote:
How is Vampir a lesbian. I don't recall her having much romantic interests.


She talks about dating girls.

MariaTenebre wrote:
TAlso I am pretty sure the Vampires in the musicals came from Earth. Death Vulcan and Vulcan though were the personifications of the planet Vulcan.


There were other monsters who I believe originated in that planet like the Mandragoras.

But I'll try to watch it again for you so I can clarify this information. It's been years since I've watched it and my memory of this musical is a bit hazy. :innocent: Hopefully its still in youtube. =^_^=

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 Post subject: Re: Thoughts on Interim Villains
PostPosted: Mon Feb 27, 2017 1:30 am 
Luna Crescens
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I never meant it had to be just like the musicals or anything, that was just my inspiration for the idea. Although the idea of generic horror themed monsters as monsters of the day has appeal. Sort of like the Droids from the manga/Crystal, masses of zombies or mummies or something (I thought of that when you said alien werewolves and things).

I may give this more thought and see if I can come up with other interim villain ideas.


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 Post subject: Re: Thoughts on Interim Villains
PostPosted: Mon Feb 27, 2017 1:42 am 
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rgveda99 wrote:
MariaTenebre wrote:
How is Vampir a lesbian. I don't recall her having much romantic interests.


She talks about dating girls.

MariaTenebre wrote:
TAlso I am pretty sure the Vampires in the musicals came from Earth. Death Vulcan and Vulcan though were the personifications of the planet Vulcan.


There were other monsters who I believe originated in that planet like the Mandragoras.

But I'll try to watch it again for you so I can clarify this information. It's been years since I've watched it and my memory of this musical is a bit hazy. :innocent: Hopefully its still in youtube. =^_^=

Oh that is cool I think that it is cool that Vampir is a lesbian that is awesome. However I have seen the first two Dracul musicals but not the next so I am not sure of the Mandragoras.

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