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 Post subject: Question about Minako's friend Katarina
PostPosted: Tue Jan 10, 2017 3:21 am 
Luna Crescens
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If Usagi has a pure heart which revealed in S then why did she try to kill Katarina in her youma form just because she dated Minako's old boyfriend Alan? It sounds so extreme and Usagi didn't sound like she should be so desvering of being "Neo Queen Serenity" of earth in future when she tries to kill someone. Her views change in the third when she tell Haurka and Michiru not to sacrifice pure hearts. But she was going to sacrifice Katrina herself? How Ironic.........


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 Post subject: Re: Question about Minako's friend Katarina
PostPosted: Tue Jan 10, 2017 3:28 am 
Planeta
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TOEI messed it up.

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 Post subject: Re: Question about Minako's friend Katarina
PostPosted: Tue Jan 10, 2017 4:20 am 
Usagi's Rose
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Usagi was really out of character that episode

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 Post subject: Re: Question about Minako's friend Katarina
PostPosted: Tue Jan 10, 2017 4:31 am 
Stella
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Swan Cat wrote:
If Usagi has a pure heart which revealed in S then why did she try to kill Katarina in her youma form just because she dated Minako's old boyfriend Alan? It sounds so extreme and Usagi didn't sound like she should be so desvering of being "Neo Queen Serenity" of earth in future when she tries to kill someone. Her views change in the third when she tell Haurka and Michiru not to sacrifice pure hearts. But she was going to sacrifice Katrina herself? How Ironic.........

Just because she has a pure heart does not mean she doesn't have flaws. All of the Sailor Senshi including the Outers had pure hearts. They were good but they still had flaws. I always imagined that Usagi was still reeling and raw from when the Dark Kingdom took Mamoru and as such she was taking out her frustrations on Katarina. Either way Usagi is definitely deserving of being Neo Queen Serenity just because she had one lapse in judgement does not cross out all of her good actions and decisions. Usagi is not perfect she is a deeply flawed individual as are all of the Sailor Senshi. They are still good but like everyone they are flawed.

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 Post subject: Re: Question about Minako's friend Katarina
PostPosted: Tue Jan 10, 2017 6:55 am 
Luna Crescens
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Clow wrote:
TOEI messed it up.

Agree. She was still undeveloped at that time and she was not yet Usagi we know in S. She just acted like a child. Instincts over thinking. Also this episode was supposed to show that Minako is much more mature and the writers choose Usagi to play the child but they have gone a little too far with the whole killing thing.


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 Post subject: Re: Question about Minako's friend Katarina
PostPosted: Tue Jan 10, 2017 11:37 am 
Planeta
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Didn't Naoko/TOEI plan to make only one season of Sailor Moon?

By the time that the episode being discussed aired, it was impossible to think of R/S/SuperS/Stars.

Still, I agree that Usagi was way out of character in the episode, being the future queen of Tokyo or not.

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 Post subject: Re: Question about Minako's friend Katarina
PostPosted: Tue Jan 10, 2017 5:13 pm 
Galaxias
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In the first season Usagi is a child. An immature (for her age) child who is still growing and learning while undergoing the trials and tribulations that she must overcome in her life. She is not perfect. She makes mistakes and is constantly prone to fallibility (hence all of her moments where the show treats her as comic relief that we the audience are supposed to laugh at her foolishness). In the heat of that moment of that episode, she was very emotional and not thinking straight, having not yet developed the maturity to handle such situations without letting her emotions compromise her high levels of rational and moral thinking. She was basically out of her right mind in that instance, having given in to her emotional foibles because she would not obtain a better grasp on maintaining herself until later in the series after she had matured more over time.

And like others have said, by the time of that episode, Super was not even a blip on either Naoko's or Toei's radar. Neither party could have known at the time that that season would come to be made when it later was, meaning that none could have known that Super would establish Usagi as having an immensely bright Pure Heart Crystal. And who's to say that its luminescence wasn't so intensely bright because of what Usagi learned from her experience in episode 42? People often learn more from mistakes and flaws than then do from successes and perfection. Usagi's out-of-character behavior in that episode could very well have contributed to the paragonal purity that she would come to embody during Super.

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 Post subject: Re: Question about Minako's friend Katarina
PostPosted: Tue Jan 10, 2017 9:05 pm 
Systema Solare
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While I agree with the maturation angle to an extent, I also consider "she stole your boyfriend!" to be the single worst line in the show, and an absolute mistake.

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 Post subject: Re: Question about Minako's friend Katarina
PostPosted: Tue Jan 10, 2017 9:28 pm 
Aurorae Lunares
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Simply put, Usagi was young and stupid back then.

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 Post subject: Re: Question about Minako's friend Katarina
PostPosted: Wed Jan 11, 2017 1:09 am 
Aurorae Lunares
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I would also add that purity in the S season isn't defined by moral purity but by pure devotion. Usagi's actions were wrong but I also don't think she was ever going to seriously do it and Usagi reflects on her actions at the end of the episode when she says Minako is much more mature than her. It's not like the episode was trying to glorify her actions so I'm not sure why people give it such a hard time.


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 Post subject: Re: Question about Minako's friend Katarina
PostPosted: Wed Jan 11, 2017 3:59 am 
Lumen Cinereum
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I had no problem with what Usagi did, no one is perfect, I just wish they called her out on it, we needed Usagi at the end to go over what happened and say "what did I almost do", like Michiru in episode 106, speaking of which, it does make Usagi look like a hypocrit when she chatsized the outters for willing to let people die. Say what you want, but at least they were going to let people die to save the world, Usagi was going to let someone die for pety reasons.


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 Post subject: Re: Question about Minako's friend Katarina
PostPosted: Wed Jan 11, 2017 6:28 am 
Planeta
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Neon Genesis wrote:
...and Usagi reflects on her actions at the end of the episode when she says Minako is much more mature than her.


...except she is wrong. ^_^

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As the show progresses, it is revealed that Usagi and Minako have the same maturity level.

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 Post subject: Re: Question about Minako's friend Katarina
PostPosted: Wed Jan 11, 2017 8:34 pm 
Aurorae Lunares
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Swan Cat wrote:
If Usagi has a pure heart which revealed in S then why did she try to kill Katarina in her youma form just because she dated Minako's old boyfriend Alan? It sounds so extreme and Usagi didn't sound like she should be so desvering of being "Neo Queen Serenity" of earth in future when she tries to kill someone. Her views change in the third when she tell Haurka and Michiru not to sacrifice pure hearts. But she was going to sacrifice Katrina herself? How Ironic.........

You just remind how much I hated that episodes . Because Usagi character why still enjoyable . In some filler episodes her character is inconsistent .Which her maturity , and growth depends which episode. Aslo S came later than classic, so maybe there she grewed up.


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 Post subject: Re: Question about Minako's friend Katarina
PostPosted: Thu Jan 12, 2017 12:52 am 
Lumen Cinereum
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Well in this world, it seems it doesn't take much to have a pure heart, heck the Craine Game troll probably has a pure heart.


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 Post subject: Re: Question about Minako's friend Katarina
PostPosted: Thu Jan 12, 2017 1:22 am 
Stella
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zttmoon wrote:
Well in this world, it seems it doesn't take much to have a pure heart, heck the Craine Game troll probably has a pure heart.

I doubt Crane Game Joe would have a pure heart he is just a jerk. Usagi on the other hand is actually a good but flawed person.

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 Post subject: Re: Question about Minako's friend Katarina
PostPosted: Thu Jan 12, 2017 1:27 am 
Lumen Cinereum
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What about the reformed Spectra sisters?, dam it why didn't they come back in future seasons to be the victim of the day.


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 Post subject: Re: Question about Minako's friend Katarina
PostPosted: Thu Jan 12, 2017 4:27 am 
Galaxias
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zttmoon wrote:
What about the reformed Spectra sisters?, dam it why didn't they come back in future seasons to be the victim of the day.
They probably went back home offscreen after the future war between Earth and Nemesis had ended.

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 Post subject: Re: Question about Minako's friend Katarina
PostPosted: Thu Jan 12, 2017 4:52 am 
Stella
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Sabrblade wrote:
zttmoon wrote:
What about the reformed Spectra sisters?, dam it why didn't they come back in future seasons to be the victim of the day.
They probably went back home offscreen after the future war between Earth and Nemesis had ended.

You mean back to the future?

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 Post subject: Re: Question about Minako's friend Katarina
PostPosted: Thu Jan 12, 2017 5:17 am 
Systema Solare
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MariaTenebre wrote:
Sabrblade wrote:
zttmoon wrote:
What about the reformed Spectra sisters?, dam it why didn't they come back in future seasons to be the victim of the day.
They probably went back home offscreen after the future war between Earth and Nemesis had ended.

You mean back to the future?


Hmm, I think if I were them I would've stayed. Wish they and the amazons could've recurred once in a while.

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 Post subject: Re: Question about Minako's friend Katarina
PostPosted: Thu Jan 12, 2017 3:39 pm 
Galaxias
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MariaTenebre wrote:
Sabrblade wrote:
zttmoon wrote:
What about the reformed Spectra sisters?, dam it why didn't they come back in future seasons to be the victim of the day.
They probably went back home offscreen after the future war between Earth and Nemesis had ended.

You mean back to the future?
Yes. They'd be the perfect ambassadors to broker a peace between the two planets.

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 Post subject: Re: Question about Minako's friend Katarina
PostPosted: Thu Jan 12, 2017 10:34 pm 
Stella
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That actually does sound like a good idea Sabrblade. It would be cool if the Ayakashi Sisters went back to the future as ambassadors to the planet Nemesis.

Also to Salem Saberhagen well in the Amazones's cases they should have been brought back as Chibi Moon's team as the Asteroid Senshi. All though it was implied they would sometime later with the line that they will probably see Chibiusa again in the SuperS finale.

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 Post subject: Re: Question about Minako's friend Katarina
PostPosted: Wed Jan 18, 2017 2:17 am 
Luna
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Neon Genesis wrote:
I would also add that purity in the S season isn't defined by moral purity but by pure devotion. Usagi's actions were wrong but I also don't think she was ever going to seriously do it and Usagi reflects on her actions at the end of the episode when she says Minako is much more mature than her. It's not like the episode was trying to glorify her actions so I'm not sure why people give it such a hard time.



This. Seriously the actual holders of the talisman were all about casualties for the greater good. Pure heart doesn't mean "saint"


Usagi's heart was pure because she had an innocent view of love. Innocent isn't always a good thing. Usagi saw this monster who stole her friend Minako's boyfriend and wanted to see that evil that hurt her friend destroyed.


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 Post subject: Re: Question about Minako's friend Katarina
PostPosted: Wed Jan 18, 2017 3:05 am 
Stella
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LifeGaveMeLemons wrote:
Neon Genesis wrote:
I would also add that purity in the S season isn't defined by moral purity but by pure devotion. Usagi's actions were wrong but I also don't think she was ever going to seriously do it and Usagi reflects on her actions at the end of the episode when she says Minako is much more mature than her. It's not like the episode was trying to glorify her actions so I'm not sure why people give it such a hard time.



This. Seriously the actual holders of the talisman were all about casualties for the greater good. Pure heart doesn't mean "saint"


Usagi's heart was pure because she had an innocent view of love. Innocent isn't always a good thing. Usagi saw this monster who stole her friend Minako's boyfriend and wanted to see that evil that hurt her friend destroyed.

And let's not forget it hit Usagi close to home as well as she had Mamoru taken from her by Beryl.

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 Post subject: Re: Question about Minako's friend Katarina
PostPosted: Wed Jan 18, 2017 4:02 am 
Galaxias
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MariaTenebre wrote:
LifeGaveMeLemons wrote:
Neon Genesis wrote:
I would also add that purity in the S season isn't defined by moral purity but by pure devotion. Usagi's actions were wrong but I also don't think she was ever going to seriously do it and Usagi reflects on her actions at the end of the episode when she says Minako is much more mature than her. It's not like the episode was trying to glorify her actions so I'm not sure why people give it such a hard time.



This. Seriously the actual holders of the talisman were all about casualties for the greater good. Pure heart doesn't mean "saint"


Usagi's heart was pure because she had an innocent view of love. Innocent isn't always a good thing. Usagi saw this monster who stole her friend Minako's boyfriend and wanted to see that evil that hurt her friend destroyed.

And let's not forget it hit Usagi close to home as well as she had Mamoru taken from her by Beryl.
Especially considering that the episode right before the one with Katarina was the one where Usagi finally Refreshed Mamoru back into his good self, only for him to be instantly seized by Beryl again right in front of her.

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 Post subject: Re: Question about Minako's friend Katarina
PostPosted: Wed Jan 18, 2017 5:38 am 
Stella
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Yeah people forget Sabrblade that in spite of Usagi's purity of character she still is a flawed and human individual. I imagine that Usagi was probably taking out her frustrations of Beryl and the Dark Kingdom taking Mamoru out on Katarina because of a slightly similar situation.

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