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 Post subject: Re: Was Nephrite a child molestor?
PostPosted: Tue Mar 07, 2017 2:14 pm 
Galaxias
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MariaTenebre wrote:
That is odd that translation of the Materials Collection states that Kunzite has a romantic relationship with Zoisite.
It's the Miss Dream translated version. Back when they first put out this version, Elly and Kero had a big debate over how that line on that page should be translated, with Kero arguing that this older translated version to be the more correct version.

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 Post subject: Re: Was Nephrite a child molestor?
PostPosted: Tue Mar 07, 2017 5:00 pm 
Columnae Creationis
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Sabrblade wrote:
MariaTenebre wrote:
That is odd that translation of the Materials Collection states that Kunzite has a romantic relationship with Zoisite.
It's the Miss Dream translated version. Back when they first put out this version, Elly and Kero had a big debate over how that line on that page should be translated, with Kero arguing that this older translated version to be the more correct version.

The Kunzite one isn't shown on the linked page. :confused:

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 Post subject: Re: Was Nephrite a child molestor?
PostPosted: Tue Mar 07, 2017 7:09 pm 
Systema Solare
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Rika-Chicchi wrote:
C-17 wrote:
Maraviollantes wrote:
Is there any male in the series who isn't a child molester? Even horses get horny when they see little girls. :ohdear:


Chibi Usa is hands down the most degenerate character in the series tho: she lusts her own father, and dates an animal.

Considering how popular she was in the country, she must be a role model at the time. :lol:


This made me ugly laugh.

MariaTenebre wrote:
That is odd that translation of the Materials Collection states that Kunzite has a romantic relationship with Zoisite. I thought that was only true in the 90s anime. It would be nice if that were true in the manga as well though. I like Zoisite/Kunzite far more then Senshi/Shitennou.


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Don't think I didn't notice that Crystal didn't include this panel. I wonder why? :P

I remember the debate with Kero. She said the note in question couldn't have meant they were lovers because of something her Japanese friend said. "I wouldn't call my boyfriend that. It's condescending. It's like something I would say to my pet." ... So Kunzite is talking to a man who curls up on his shoulder like he's a pet, and this strikes her as heterosexual? :P

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 Post subject: Re: Was Nephrite a child molestor?
PostPosted: Tue Mar 07, 2017 7:43 pm 
Aurorae Lunares
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I think Nephrite's reputation isn't helped by how all the English dubs of Sailor Moon pick a guy that sounds like an old man to play the role of Nephrite.


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 Post subject: Re: Was Nephrite a child molestor?
PostPosted: Tue Mar 07, 2017 7:59 pm 
Aurorae Lunares
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D

I re
I saw a post on tumbrl but basically Miss Dreams , and Alex Grove were both incorrect
)(The bit about Zoisite says クンツァイトの弟的存在, which basically means 'someone who's like a younger brother to Kunzite'. As for ゾイサイトをかわいがってる, in my experience it means something like 'to love', 'to favor', 'to treat with affection', etc. Normally it seems to be used to denote a person's affection towards little kids or pets, but I suppose it can also be used as a term for affection in a romantic relationship... maybe? Not sure. Most dictionaries I know use phrases about children or pets as examples.)
Basically the word she put you use more children for pets . You don't use it for lovers .


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 Post subject: Re: Was Nephrite a child molestor?
PostPosted: Tue Mar 07, 2017 10:50 pm 
Systema Solare
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Salem Saberhagen wrote:
Don't think I didn't notice that Crystal didn't include this panel. I wonder why? :P

I remember the debate with Kero. She said the note in question couldn't have meant they were lovers because of something her Japanese friend said. "I wouldn't call my boyfriend that. It's condescending. It's like something I would say to my pet." ... So Kunzite is talking to a man who curls up on his shoulder like he's a pet, and this strikes her as heterosexual? :P


She's just being disagreeable just so she can disagree with anyone like most disagreeable people do.

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 Post subject: Re: Was Nephrite a child molestor?
PostPosted: Tue Mar 07, 2017 11:48 pm 
Galaxias
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Rika-Chicchi wrote:
Sabrblade wrote:
MariaTenebre wrote:
That is odd that translation of the Materials Collection states that Kunzite has a romantic relationship with Zoisite.
It's the Miss Dream translated version. Back when they first put out this version, Elly and Kero had a big debate over how that line on that page should be translated, with Kero arguing that this older translated version to be the more correct version.

The Kunzite one isn't shown on the linked page. :confused:
Because the line in question was only on the Jadeite/Nephrite/Zoisite page.

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Last edited by Sabrblade on Wed Mar 08, 2017 2:13 am, edited 1 time in total.

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 Post subject: Re: Was Nephrite a child molestor?
PostPosted: Wed Mar 08, 2017 12:06 am 
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Sabrblade wrote:
Rika-Chicchi wrote:
Sabrblade wrote:
It's the Miss Dream translated version. Back when they first put out this version, Elly and Kero had a big debate over how that line on that page should be translated, with Kero arguing that this older translated version to be the more correct version.

The Kunzite one isn't shown on the linked page. :confused:
Because the line in question was only on the Jadeite/Nephrite/Zoisite page.

Oh, I thought it's about that "has a romantic relationship w/ Zoicite" line in Miss Dream's translation.

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 Post subject: Re: Was Nephrite a child molestor?
PostPosted: Wed Mar 08, 2017 12:07 am 
Aurorae Lunares
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rgveda99 wrote:
Salem Saberhagen wrote:
Don't think I didn't notice that Crystal didn't include this panel. I wonder why? :P

I remember the debate with Kero. She said the note in question couldn't have meant they were lovers because of something her Japanese friend said. "I wouldn't call my boyfriend that. It's condescending. It's like something I would say to my pet." ... So Kunzite is talking to a man who curls up on his shoulder like he's a pet, and this strikes her as heterosexual? :P


She's just being disagreeable just so she can disagree with anyone like most disagreeable people do.

Actually she probably was right . the tumbtrl post I saw said Miss Dreams translation was more likely to be wrong.


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 Post subject: Re: Was Nephrite a child molestor?
PostPosted: Wed Mar 08, 2017 12:49 am 
Lumen Cinereum
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MariaTenebre wrote:
That is odd that translation of the Materials Collection states that Kunzite has a romantic relationship with Zoisite. I thought that was only true in the 90s anime. It would be nice if that were true in the manga as well though. I like Zoisite/Kunzite far more then Senshi/Shitennou.


I was surprised to see that as well, as it was also my understanding that Kunzite and Zoicite did not have such a relationship in the manga. Which is a shame, because I also like that relationship in the 90s anime. I am not necessarily opposed to the concept of a romance between the inner senshi and the shitennou, but I don't think it was ever introduced to the storyline in a convincing way. It feels too forced - like an afterthought. I have no reason to feel attached to those pairings.


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 Post subject: Re: Was Nephrite a child molestor?
PostPosted: Wed Mar 08, 2017 1:01 am 
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imaginationgirl wrote:
Actually she probably was right . the tumbtrl post I saw said Miss Dreams translation was more likely to be wrong.


I'm not saying she's wrong. I'm just saying she's being disagreeable.

Kero's reply to Elly is biased toward her friend's opinion.

Salem Saberhagen wrote:
I remember the debate with Kero. She said the note in question couldn't have meant they were lovers because of something her Japanese friend said. "I wouldn't call my boyfriend that. It's condescending. It's like something I would say to my pet." ... So Kunzite is talking to a man who curls up on his shoulder like he's a pet, and this strikes her as heterosexual? :P

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 Post subject: Re: Was Nephrite a child molestor?
PostPosted: Wed Mar 08, 2017 2:16 am 
Galaxias
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Rika-Chicchi wrote:
Sabrblade wrote:
Rika-Chicchi wrote:
The Kunzite one isn't shown on the linked page. :confused:
Because the line in question was only on the Jadeite/Nephrite/Zoisite page.

Oh, I thought it's about that "has a romantic relationship w/ Zoicite" line in Miss Dream's translation.
Whoops! Now I see what happened. I mistook which page the line was on and posted the wrong page. It's fixed now. :thumbsup:

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 Post subject: Re: Was Nephrite a child molestor?
PostPosted: Wed Mar 08, 2017 5:18 am 
Systema Solare
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imaginationgirl wrote:
D

I re
I saw a post on tumbrl but basically Miss Dreams , and Alex Grove were both incorrect
)(The bit about Zoisite says クンツァイトの弟的存在, which basically means 'someone who's like a younger brother to Kunzite'. As for ゾイサイトをかわいがってる, in my experience it means something like 'to love', 'to favor', 'to treat with affection', etc. Normally it seems to be used to denote a person's affection towards little kids or pets, but I suppose it can also be used as a term for affection in a romantic relationship... maybe? Not sure. Most dictionaries I know use phrases about children or pets as examples.)
Basically the word she put you use more children for pets . You don't use it for lovers .


But Zoisite isn't a child or pet either... but if Kunzite treats him like those, it sounds to me like a relationship with a very skewed power dynamic. Sort of like a pederastic master/apprentice relationship. It sounds like what they have in the anime, anyway.

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 Post subject: Re: Was Nephrite a child molestor?
PostPosted: Wed Mar 08, 2017 3:17 pm 
Galaxias
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Salem Saberhagen wrote:
imaginationgirl wrote:
D

I re
I saw a post on tumbrl but basically Miss Dreams , and Alex Grove were both incorrect
)(The bit about Zoisite says クンツァイトの弟的存在, which basically means 'someone who's like a younger brother to Kunzite'. As for ゾイサイトをかわいがってる, in my experience it means something like 'to love', 'to favor', 'to treat with affection', etc. Normally it seems to be used to denote a person's affection towards little kids or pets, but I suppose it can also be used as a term for affection in a romantic relationship... maybe? Not sure. Most dictionaries I know use phrases about children or pets as examples.)
Basically the word she put you use more children for pets . You don't use it for lovers .


But Zoisite isn't a child or pet either... but if Kunzite treats him like those, it sounds to me like a relationship with a very skewed power dynamic. Sort of like a pederastic master/apprentice relationship. It sounds like what they have in the anime, anyway.
Maybe what is meant by "a person's affection towards little kids or pets" is more of a parental/guardian caring type of affection. Like, maybe the line was meant to suggest that, in that book, Kunzite has a sort of fatherly relationship with Zoisite, what with Kunzite being the eldest king (25-26) and Zoisite being the youngest (16-17). Plus, with that book describing Zoisite as both a "youngest-child type"/"gives off the air that he was the baby of his family" who "uses dirty methods of attack"/"is very underhanded in his style of fighting", Kunzite being the leader might feel compelled to give Zoistie the most attention since Zoisite would be the most immature and the most in need of a caring yet disciplined authority figure to guide him on his path.

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 Post subject: Re: Was Nephrite a child molestor?
PostPosted: Wed Mar 08, 2017 5:12 pm 
Systema Solare
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I don't think that description of their relationship is wrong, Sabrblade, but when paired with the manga panel I shared (which was pointedly not included in Crystal) I feel like that doesn't preclude a ...(somehow neither the words romantic or sexual seem quite right) relationship. There's actually a long history of a sexual mentor/mentee relationship. Roman soldiers, knights and squires, samurai, they all did it. Somehow I suspect Naoko knew about that model, and Zoi and Kunz lend themselves pretty well to it.

And if everyone thinks I'm just seeing what I want to see, well, there's actually other subtextual possibilities in the Dark Kingdom that I highly suspect, but wish I could unsee, lol.

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 Post subject: Re: Was Nephrite a child molestor?
PostPosted: Wed Mar 08, 2017 5:15 pm 
Aurorae Lunares
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Salem Saberhagen wrote:
imaginationgirl wrote:
D

I re
I saw a post on tumbrl but basically Miss Dreams , and Alex Grove were both incorrect
)(The bit about Zoisite says クンツァイトの弟的存在, which basically means 'someone who's like a younger brother to Kunzite'. As for ゾイサイトをかわいがってる, in my experience it means something like 'to love', 'to favor', 'to treat with affection', etc. Normally it seems to be used to denote a person's affection towards little kids or pets, but I suppose it can also be used as a term for affection in a romantic relationship... maybe? Not sure. Most dictionaries I know use phrases about children or pets as examples.)
Basically the word she put you use more children for pets . You don't use it for lovers .


But[b] Zoisite isn't a child or pet either... but if Kunzite treats him like those, it sounds to me like a relationship with a very skewed power dynamic. Sort of like a pederastic master/apprentice relationship. [/b]It sounds like what they have in the anime, anyway.

In materials collection Zoisite is 16 years old . Why Kunzite is 25 . In /japan you're not an adult until your 20 . So by in there standards he is child.
Why


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 Post subject: Re: Was Nephrite a child molestor?
PostPosted: Wed Mar 08, 2017 5:41 pm 
Galaxias
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I think something that a lot of people haven't considered is what the Materials Collection is supposed to pertain to, exactly. Many consider its information to refer to the continuity of the manga, yet it contains points and notions that were only ever true for the anime (i.e. - how Shingo feels about Mika, who wasn't ever in the manga). Likewise, it also features characters who were only in the SuperS movie, a film that, while not neatly connected to the continuity of the anime, bears stronger ties to the anime than it does to the manga.

Thus, with the book's contents feeling more like a blend of both the manga and anime, I feel that it might not apply solely to either one of them, but that its information instead served as a background source that BOTH the manga and anime might have picked selective bits of info from, but with neither the manga nor the anime completely adhering to everything the book contains. As such, the book itself may be viewed as its own unique continuity that is neither solely the manga nor solely the anime, but instead a "master continuity" containing elements of both that each one took from the info published in the book.

Therefore, whatever the book says about Kunzite's relationship with Zoisite may not necessarily apply to either the manga or the anime.

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 Post subject: Re: Was Nephrite a child molestor?
PostPosted: Wed Mar 08, 2017 5:47 pm 
Aurorae Lunares
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I think it's more like their rough drafts , and ideas of the characters . That were used in both or one than the other . That as some ideas were just scrapped .


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 Post subject: Re: Was Nephrite a child molestor?
PostPosted: Wed Mar 08, 2017 8:33 pm 
Systema Solare
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imaginationgirl wrote:
In materials collection Zoisite is 16 years old . Why Kunzite is 25 . In /japan you're not an adult until your 20 . So by in there standards he is child.
Why


Well the phrase in question was used for children and pets, and teenagers aren't particularly thought of as "children" in the same cutesy sense. At least that's my understanding.

Sabrblade wrote:
I think something that a lot of people haven't considered is what the Materials Collection is supposed to pertain to, exactly. Many consider its information to refer to the continuity of the manga, yet it contains points and notions that were only ever true for the anime (i.e. - how Shingo feels about Mika, who wasn't ever in the manga). Likewise, it also features characters who were only in the SuperS movie, a film that, while not neatly connected to the continuity of the anime, bears stronger ties to the anime than it does to the manga.

Thus, with the book's contents feeling more like a blend of both the manga and anime, I feel that it might not apply solely to either one of them, but that its information instead served as a background source that BOTH the manga and anime might have picked selective bits of info from, but with neither the manga nor the anime completely adhering to everything the book contains. As such, the book itself may be viewed as its own unique continuity that is neither solely the manga nor solely the anime, but instead a "master continuity" containing elements of both that each one took from the info published in the book.

Therefore, whatever the book says about Kunzite's relationship with Zoisite may not necessarily apply to either the manga or the anime.


I didn't know the collection mentioned Mika! It seems like Naoko had an awful lot of ideas she didn't get to explore, it's kind of sad.

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 Post subject: Re: Was Nephrite a child molestor?
PostPosted: Sat Mar 11, 2017 3:44 am 
Lumen Cinereum
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he is no more a "child molester" than Mamoru/Tuxedo Mask.

But considering Nephrite never actually "molested" anyone, no, he is technically not a "child molester", he never was.

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