Sailor Moon Forum

International Sailor Moon Online Community

* FAQ    * Search   * Login 
* Rss  * Register
It is currently Sun Dec 17, 2017 12:30 am

All times are UTC




Post new topic Reply to topic  [ 48 posts ]  Go to page Previous  1, 2
Author Message
 Post subject: Re: Toon Makers (Saban Moon) Sailor Moon pilot?
PostPosted: Tue Jul 11, 2017 6:59 am 
Luna Nova
Luna Nova
Years of membershipYears of membershipYears of membershipYears of membershipYears of membershipYears of membershipYears of membershipYears of membership
Joined: Sep 12, 2009
Posts: 86
GTAB wrote:
SignorinaTsukino wrote:
Bruce Wayne...my first crush.

Well, he is the Batman after all.



OH MY GOD SPOILERS

any ways on topic i feel this would be the peek of so bad its good for sailor moon fans

honestly if it ever releases i would expect a fan project to come out of "finishing" the series aka ramping up the stupid for comedy


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Toon Makers (Saban Moon) Sailor Moon pilot?
PostPosted: Mon Nov 06, 2017 8:54 pm 
Lapis Lunaris
Lapis Lunaris
Months of membership
Joined: Nov 06, 2017
Posts: 1
MementoNepenthe wrote:
Presumably there should be a copy of the pilot at the Library of Congress since I believe that's where they archive materials submitted for copyright. As far as I know, no one has tried to view it, though I believe the LoC only grants requests to view such materials under special circumstances (like if you're doing a research paper or something like that). If I lived in DC I would have a go at it myself. Any DC area Moonies here willing to try getting access? :googly:

ETA: According to the US Copyright Office website, there were (at least) three registered drafts of the pilot presentation, all registered to Renaissance-Atlantic Entertainment Fund, BV:

1st draft: 13 pages, registered 1994-07-07 (Sailor moon animation script presentation show)
2nd draft: 12 pages, registered 1994-07-07 (Presentation pilot for sailor moon.)
3rd draft: 9 pages, registered 1994-05-16 (Presentation pilot for Sailor moon / by Robert Rhine)

It's interesting that the 3rd draft was filed first, and almost 2 months before the latter drafts. (Which makes me wonder if perhaps the '1st draft' is really the 3rd draft, and therefore the drafts are incorrectly numbered?) The first two drafts were also titled "Sailor Moon" and registered to Renaissance-Atlantic Entertainment Fund, BV. The 3rd draft, however, has the application title "Project Y," is registered to Renaissance Atlantic (employer for hire), and is the only one with an attributed writer, Robert Rhine. (Has anyone tried tracking him down and interviewing him?) All three drafts are categorized as: Dramatic Work and Music; or Choreography.

Given that the scripts are only 9-13 pages, and 1 script page usually equals about 1 minute of screen time, the pilot they shot was probably under 10 minutes. In addition to the 3 script drafts (all identified as screenplays), there are 2 registrations categorized for "Recorded Documents" (which are not identified as screenplays, audio recordings, video recordings, etc). I'm not sure what that means, so whether the Copyright Office/LoC has any actual recordings of the pilot or just the scripts is unclear to me. However, it would still be interesting to read all the drafts of the script to see what changed.

Now, one of those "Recorded Documents" was registered on 1995-03-21, about 8 months after the first (third?) draft of the screenplay was registered. The other "Recorded Document" was also registered on that day, refers to "Project Y," and notes a transfer of copyright between Renaissance and Toei, which I find interesting. Since the DiC dub premiered in August of 1995, that means they had barely 6 months maximum to (begin, if not complete?) work on it.

Bandai America also filed a copyright for "Pretty Soldier Sailor Moon" on 1994-08-11. They list the type of work as "Motion Picture" and, under "Previous Registration" refer to "Preexisting material: Japanese version of animated & live-action series (on original appl.: Japanese version of animated series)"



The Library of Congress has a listing for a "Sailor moon--music video version" from Renaissance-Atlantic. I'm guessing it's what's been on YouTube, but without it being a recording from a convention. While not the pilot, still pretty cool.


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Toon Makers (Saban Moon) Sailor Moon pilot?
PostPosted: Tue Nov 21, 2017 4:44 pm 
Luna
Luna
Years of membershipYears of membershipYears of membership
Joined: Sep 06, 2014
Posts: 755
Gender: male
So re-reading anime fringe’s interview with Rocky Solotoff (Toonmaker founder and president, producer, director, and writer of Toonmakers Moon) I have never questioned an indiviual’s intelligence based on a single interview more than I have reading this guy think he had an international hit on his hands

Quote:
RS: Well, eventually they did use the original anime which was a deal that was struck with Bandai and DiC. But this was a concept created by Renaissance Atlantic which I think you and I are in agreement that would have probably been more successful–at least here in the United States and probably throughout Canada, Europe, and South America.



Yes your Babysitter’s Burger King Kid’s Club meets She-Ra innnnnn spaaaace would have been a huge hit and not some show that got sh!t canned after one season and largely forgotten by the public which is what actually would have happened if this version got picked up


Quote:
RS: No, except, gosh, I'm really that there are people out there feel the way that we do. That this was a missed opportunity

A missed opportunity for another laughably bad generic 90s kids tv show

Quote:
. And if there's enough people out there you can't tell that since Sailor Moon has acquired a very small audience outside of the anime community. Because here in Los Angeles, I think Sailor Moon was shown at like 6:30 on one of the independent stations. It never really hit what we call prime time television for children. It never let up or followed Power Rangers. It just wasn't thrown into the mainstream. It was something that replaced the Farm Report in the morning.

Just for reference this interview was in 2000 not 1995 or 1996. After Sailor Moon had already been an incredibly successful program on Toonami. Where it had a huge audience outside of the anime community.



Quote:
We thought it was a fun idea at the beginning and after all these years we still think it's a great idea.


It wasn’t


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Toon Makers (Saban Moon) Sailor Moon pilot?
PostPosted: Tue Nov 21, 2017 5:43 pm 
Luna Crescens
Luna Crescens
User avatar
Months of membershipMonths of membershipMonths of membershipMonths of membershipMonths of membershipMonths of membershipMonths of membershipMonths of membership
Joined: Apr 01, 2017
Posts: 218
Location: D-Point
Gender: Female
To be fair, perhaps he was speaking mostly in his 'yes man' professional capacity of not being able to badmouth a project he was involved in (contrasted with something like Roy Sheider talking about how awful he thought Seaquest's plots were, or that guy who played the first officer Chakotay in Star Trek Voyager).

I could even imagine this show having enjoyed a brief run of 'success'.

But by the year 2000 it would've been old and dead and, at best, remembered as one of those cheesy old things. The closest thing it would probably get to a revival is cheap jokes on Robot Chicken.

The real Sailor Moon definitely had more fame during this interview than I think this show could've had, because it was on the leading edge of the expanding anime community next to Dragon Ball Z (to the point that stock, crummy parodies of anime culture almost ubiquitously referenced DBZ and Sailor Moon). And it retained a lot of very loyal followers in the almost two decades since.

Heck, it still picks up new followers. I didn't really sit down to watch it through or start caring about it in a big way until 2011.

The DiC dub may have it's issues, but it really seems to me like we dodged a bullet by getting that instead of... this thing. Anime fandom in the US still would've come through, but this was an early gem, and it might've blipped past people's radar if they only heard of the real deal once it was old news, and it would've been missing a major bright spot in many people's lives back then.

That said, morbid curiosity has me intrigued enough that I would be willing to consider watching a pilot if one surfaced. It looks really, really dumb, though, and I say that as someone who could kinda get behind the glider sail things.

_________________
Image ~ Heir to the Dork Kingdom ~


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Toon Makers (Saban Moon) Sailor Moon pilot?
PostPosted: Tue Nov 21, 2017 10:04 pm 
Aurorae Lunares
Aurorae Lunares
User avatar
Years of membershipYears of membership
Joined: Oct 31, 2015
Posts: 1855
Of course the creators are going to engage in a lot of corporate spin to make them look good. I think they should have just called it something else and used their own original characters and said it was inspired by Sailor Moon like Italy did with Winx Club. It definitely wouldn't have been as big of a success as the anime was, but it might have found a niche fandom given how rare superhero shows for girls was in the 90s. I still would love to see the full pilot just because it is my goal in life to see all things Sailor Moon related no matter how bad. And it's not like Japan doesn't have it's own bad live action Sailor Moon. Some of those old Myus can be just as cringey (I'm looking at you Road To Being The Soldier of Love) and those weird live shows with the giant puppet heads are kind of terrifying.


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Toon Makers (Saban Moon) Sailor Moon pilot?
PostPosted: Tue Nov 21, 2017 10:57 pm 
Solaris Luna
Solaris Luna
User avatar
Years of membershipYears of membershipYears of membershipYears of membershipYears of membership
Joined: Mar 08, 2012
Posts: 2623
Gender: Agender
And again, we really don't know how the show would have turned out had it actually gotten made. Judging it off of some bootleg footage of a music video isn't terribly fair. The animation for the pilot presentation was super cheap because it was just for a proof of concept thing. Had the show gone to series, they probably would have recast (thus necessitating some character design changes, hopefully resulting in Mercury not having terrible, frizzy, orange hair) and used much better quality animation. (Besides, with Crystal in existence, can anyone really talk smack about the TM Sailor Moon's animation quality?) Besides that, I think the diversity, battles in space, and the presumed inclusion of the Outers from the get go all could have made for a really interesting take. Do I think it would have been more successful than the anime? No. But I think the popularity of the anime, once North American viewers got to see it, would have kept a fandom for the TM version alive, so I don't think it would have been forgotten. Who knows what this show might have been. Maybe someday this project could get resurrected in some form.

_________________
I will right wrongs and triumph over evil, and that means Trump! #NotMyPresident

It's = It Is. Its = Possessive form of It.

Image


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Toon Makers (Saban Moon) Sailor Moon pilot?
PostPosted: Wed Nov 22, 2017 12:19 am 
Planeta
Planeta
User avatar
Years of membershipYears of membershipYears of membershipYears of membershipYears of membership
Joined: Jul 29, 2012
Posts: 3603
Gender: male
Other: CLAMP PR
MementoNepenthe wrote:
Maybe someday this project could get resurrected in some form.


A Netflix original series. :lol:

_________________
Visit Clow's shop


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Toon Makers (Saban Moon) Sailor Moon pilot?
PostPosted: Wed Nov 22, 2017 6:06 am 
Luna Crescens
Luna Crescens
User avatar
Months of membershipMonths of membershipMonths of membershipMonths of membershipMonths of membershipMonths of membershipMonths of membershipMonths of membership
Joined: Apr 01, 2017
Posts: 218
Location: D-Point
Gender: Female
Neon Genesis wrote:
and those weird live shows with the giant puppet heads are kind of terrifying.

Wait, that show from that one Makaiju/Doom Tree arc episode that Naru and Umino were watching when Yamandakka attacked, is a real Sailor Moon product? I assumed they were just referencing a type of show, I'd never heard of an actual Sailor Moon thing that worked that way.

Personally, as someone who hasn't seen the Live Action show or any Sera Myu things yet, and has mixed but relatively positive feelings about the manga (contrasted with an undying love of the '90s anime), I think the Live Action show seems kind of intriguing, but so far distant I'd be surprised if I really like it. Crazy costumes, I can totally get behind, but the story of the live action series sounds like a strange deconstruction, and it seems like too many of my favorite events/characterizations in the franchise have no similar/offshoot versions to speak of (PC Engine game aside, and vaguely Sailor Moon: Another Story), and are generally '90s anime-exclusive concepts.

The animation 'quality' doesn't seem obviously bad on the Toon Makers trailer, but I never really liked this style of animation much so I'm not a fair judge. I'm willing to accept some pretty dicey animation anyway; Episode 26 of the '90s anime (the one with Youma Boxsy and Naru grieving in the graveyard) is one of my absolute favorites, but the animation in that episode kinda stinks, they even managed to make Zoisite ugly in some scenes!

I just don't think the concept in the Toon Makers version strikes me as anything more interesting than a bunch of high-quality stuff I already don't care about, like various '90s Disney films, or more competent than a bunch of '80s kids cartoons like the already-mentioned She-Ra or whatever. Just because something has merits or competent elements doesn't mean I personally think I'd like it, nor does it seem like it would stand out as a social trend that sounds like it would blow people away or whatever.

Contrast the Marvel Cinematic Universe films, which I also don't care about much, but lots of people love those because (among other reasons) they embrace organized continuity in a way movie franchises had been very inconsistent or hesitant about in the past, so that logically sounds like it could be a hit, filling a niche that wasn't developed enough. I could maybe see Toon Makers Sailor Moon doing a little bit of that (filling an underdeveloped niche), but not like, famously so, the way the '90s anime really did with western audiences.

Also, speaking of continuity, the '90s anime probably had bucketloads more than this would've, because very few American shows at that time, much less children's shows, really embraced story arcs beyond rare multi-parters or major revamps between seasons.

_________________
Image ~ Heir to the Dork Kingdom ~


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Toon Makers (Saban Moon) Sailor Moon pilot?
PostPosted: Wed Nov 22, 2017 6:14 am 
Aurorae Lunares
Aurorae Lunares
User avatar
Years of membershipYears of membership
Joined: Oct 31, 2015
Posts: 1855
Mitsukara wrote:
Wait, that show from that one Makaiju/Doom Tree arc episode that Naru and Umino were watching when Yamandakka attacked, is a real Sailor Moon product? I assumed they were just referencing a type of show, I'd never heard of an actual Sailor Moon thing that worked that way.
Yes, these costumes are very common for like kids shows and are sort of like the costumes you see at Disney World but with anime characters. I know they have those weird costumes for the Pretty Cure characters too. You can watch one of the live events on YouTube actually called Dreaming Moon which was an event to promote the R movie coming out. I think the weirdest claim by the Toon Makers representative guy was his claim that producing an original American Sailor Moon would have somehow been cheaper than dubbing the anime was. Even putting license fees into account, I feel like it would be the opposite and going through the trouble of creating your own original scripts and special effects and animation would be much more expensive than just hiring new voices and music composer and a translator to adapt the script. Here's the Dreaming Moon special if you want to see what those weird Japanese costumes are like. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XZemu5h-qKc


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Toon Makers (Saban Moon) Sailor Moon pilot?
PostPosted: Wed Nov 22, 2017 6:56 am 
Luna
Luna
Years of membershipYears of membershipYears of membership
Joined: Sep 06, 2014
Posts: 755
Gender: male
Toonmakers Moon would still have licensings feen too. Yeah you have (cheaply made animation) and new cheaply made live action scenes that would have to be filmed from scratch versus just dubbing an already existing show and adding some nifty 90s cgi and digital editing and airbrushing as needed would have obviously been cheaper.


It doesn’t even make sense to do it anime may have not been big like it became in the 21st century but even then dubbing anime was nothing new and even them the attractive idea was
a company could make money off a show where most of the work was already done for them (the whole reason DiC grabbed it)


I know it’s been suggested it was just following Power Rangers but the idea of Power Rangers was to mix Japanese action footage was new American footage to produce a cheaply produced 20 minute toy commercial


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Toon Makers (Saban Moon) Sailor Moon pilot?
PostPosted: Wed Nov 22, 2017 7:14 am 
Luna Crescens
Luna Crescens
User avatar
Months of membershipMonths of membershipMonths of membershipMonths of membershipMonths of membershipMonths of membershipMonths of membershipMonths of membership
Joined: Apr 01, 2017
Posts: 218
Location: D-Point
Gender: Female
Haha, this Sailor Moon R Christmas stageshow thing is kind of amazing in a terrible way! (How does one get drunk on nonacoholic champaign, anyway?) The heads wouldn't be creepy to me, except that they made the mouths a big open space with teeth. Should've made them a flat pink space or something, like on figurines. The person playing Usagi in the costume actually did a great job on the motions and body language I think.

I wonder if Emi Shinohara and Fukami Rica were disappointed or relieved that they didn't have their own mascots to voice-dub...

I definitely agree about the cost thing. And DiC could've scraped off even more costs by keeping the original music (and by trivially switching out Moonlight Densetsu, Maboroshi No Ginzuishou, and soforth for the instrumental versions; though I am glad we god "My Only Love" out of the way things turned out, and it was probably a good marketing call to make some sort of English song to the tune of Moonlight Densetsu).

They probably overdid the editing time, too, even if the censorship was all required; what I mean is they tried to lip-sync all the english dialogue, and made tons of tiny little pacing changes for some reason, like they poured over every single clip and fiddled with all of them. I wouldn't be surprised if they had complete-but-unaired prototypes of the cut episodes, too. But even then, it was probably a lot cheaper than making an all-new show.

Yeah, to make a new show with Sailor Moon stock footage, you'd need to be imitating Sailor Moon's animation style... which would probably wind up looking like that janky old fanclub badge thing. That'd be a whole different weird project than what Toon Makers was doing. (That, or they could go halfway, using DiC-style scenes from the anime, but intersplicing them with new live action scenes a la the "Tommy Kennedy" bookended Transformers episodes).

_________________
Image ~ Heir to the Dork Kingdom ~


Last edited by Mitsukara on Wed Nov 22, 2017 7:36 am, edited 1 time in total.

Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Toon Makers (Saban Moon) Sailor Moon pilot?
PostPosted: Wed Nov 22, 2017 7:25 am 
Luna
Luna
Years of membershipYears of membershipYears of membership
Joined: Sep 06, 2014
Posts: 755
Gender: male
With the score thing DiC was clearly following the Saban business model of “we can make more money if we make our own brand new score”

I heard some animes bgm is a separate license but I’m doubtful that was the case for Sailor Moon. I know with Digimon Adventure at least it’s constant use of Bolero as a motif would have been an issue since that song wasn’t in the public domain in 1999/2000 in the U.S like it was in Japan


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Toon Makers (Saban Moon) Sailor Moon pilot?
PostPosted: Fri Dec 08, 2017 2:25 pm 
Solaris Luna
Solaris Luna
User avatar
Years of membershipYears of membershipYears of membershipYears of membershipYears of membership
Joined: Mar 08, 2012
Posts: 2623
Gender: Agender
I'm sure this has been pointed out before, but does anyone else think there's a slight resemblance between Queen Beryl's "Dark Galleon" and the Dead Moon Circus's ship? The Toon Maker project was being developed at the same time the Dream arc / SuperS was being released, so it could have been a source of inspiration.

Image

_________________
I will right wrongs and triumph over evil, and that means Trump! #NotMyPresident

It's = It Is. Its = Possessive form of It.

Image


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Toon Makers (Saban Moon) Sailor Moon pilot?
PostPosted: Fri Dec 08, 2017 7:36 pm 
Columnae Creationis
Columnae Creationis
User avatar
Years of membershipYears of membershipYears of membershipYears of membershipYears of membershipYears of membershipYears of membershipYears of membership
Joined: May 07, 2009
Posts: 37823
Gender: Male
^ In any case, the Dead Moon ship looks much, much better. lol

_________________
 
Image

Avatar courtesy of ayaka502 (enhanced by Senji-kun)
My J-pop corner


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Toon Makers (Saban Moon) Sailor Moon pilot?
PostPosted: Fri Dec 08, 2017 8:48 pm 
Luna Crescens
Luna Crescens
User avatar
Months of membershipMonths of membershipMonths of membershipMonths of membershipMonths of membershipMonths of membershipMonths of membershipMonths of membership
Joined: Apr 01, 2017
Posts: 218
Location: D-Point
Gender: Female
I can see the resemblance, on the face/mouth thing.

Whenever I think of these crazy vehicles (like the Moon Cycle), I like to try to imagine them somehow appearing in the actual '90s anime with the actual official versions of the characters using them and still having the same personalities, and just acting like these craft are completely normal.

So imagining Beryl and the Shitennou riding on that thing as they go to invade Silver Millennium, leading the charge on that big cyan fog of army dudes, is kind of amazing.

(Similarly, I like to imagine Tobey Maguire from the Sam Raimi Spiderman films piloting the Spider Machine GP-7 and Leopardon.)

_________________
Image ~ Heir to the Dork Kingdom ~


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Toon Makers (Saban Moon) Sailor Moon pilot?
PostPosted: Sun Dec 10, 2017 6:43 pm 
Luna Nova
Luna Nova
User avatar
Years of membershipYears of membership
Joined: Feb 07, 2015
Posts: 87
What I wouldn’t give for that pilot to leak...


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Toon Makers (Saban Moon) Sailor Moon pilot?
PostPosted: Sun Dec 10, 2017 7:58 pm 
Aurorae Lunares
Aurorae Lunares
User avatar
Years of membershipYears of membership
Joined: Oct 31, 2015
Posts: 1855
LifeGaveMeLemons wrote:
With the score thing DiC was clearly following the Saban business model of “we can make more money if we make our own brand new score”

I heard some animes bgm is a separate license but I’m doubtful that was the case for Sailor Moon. I know with Digimon Adventure at least it’s constant use of Bolero as a motif would have been an issue since that song wasn’t in the public domain in 1999/2000 in the U.S like it was in Japan
I don't think it's the case of making more money but American soundtracks are fundamentally different from Japanese soundtracks. Japanese soundtracks place more emphasis on long breaks of silence while American soundtracks place more emphasis on constant noise which is why you often had lots of added music and dialog in scenes that were originally silent in Americanized dubs in the 90s'. A big example of this would be the Disney dubs of Castle in the Sky and Kiki's Delivery Service. Also keeping the original soundtrack would have been difficult to have it sync up with the video footage with all the extreme amounts of cuts DiC made. It was easier to just keep the Japanese soundtrack in the Cloverway dub because Cloverway made less visual cuts.


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Toon Makers (Saban Moon) Sailor Moon pilot?
PostPosted: Tue Dec 12, 2017 1:52 am 
Solaris Luna
Solaris Luna
User avatar
Years of membershipYears of membershipYears of membershipYears of membershipYears of membership
Joined: Apr 20, 2012
Posts: 2092
Location: Texas
Gender: Male
Neon Genesis wrote:
I don't think it's the case of making more money but American soundtracks are fundamentally different from Japanese soundtracks. Japanese soundtracks place more emphasis on long breaks of silence while American soundtracks place more emphasis on constant noise which is why you often had lots of added music and dialog in scenes that were originally silent in Americanized dubs in the 90s'.

You're definitely right about all of this, but making money is certainly part of it as well. Not only can they make money from releasing a dub soundtrack, but sometimes foreign dubs will dub using the English dub as a base instead of the original Japanese. And American companies can charge a higher price for their dubs when it has original music in addition to pre-edited footage.


Top
 Profile  
 
Display posts from previous:  Sort by  
Post new topic Reply to topic  [ 48 posts ]  Go to page Previous  1, 2

All times are UTC


Who is online

Moonies browsing this forum: No registered moonies and 15 guests



Search for:
Jump to:  
Powered by phpBB

contact forum administrator