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 Post subject: If aired in the 90s, would the Viz dub have been as popular?
PostPosted: Sun Mar 05, 2017 5:23 am 
Luna Nova
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As popular as the Dic dub, specifically.

I always felt that there was something about the Dic dub of Sailor Moon, rather than Sailor Moon itself, that was responsible for its popularity in North America. I don't know about how popular Dic's dub was in the US, but it was BIG here in Canada.

I feel that it wouldn't have been able to captivate the target audience as well. Dic was targeting children, obviously, and they did a good job turning the show into something American children would love. Of course, it also reached plenty of older people as well, serving as more of a gateway to the show.

Had Viz's dub been the one to air on TV, what do you think it's impact would have been?


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 Post subject: Re: If aired in the 90s, would the Viz dub have been as popular?
PostPosted: Sun Mar 05, 2017 5:40 am 
Systema Solare
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It wouldn't have aired in Canada so probably not..then again, Viz was relying on Ocean Studios in Canada for all of their dubs back in the 90s so it probably would have aired but with a different voice cast and using the WordFit system that Ocean was using back in those days which had always led to mixed results.

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 Post subject: Re: If aired in the 90s, would the Viz dub have been as popular?
PostPosted: Sun Mar 05, 2017 6:25 am 
Usagi's Rose
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probably would have been pretty well especially in other countries but dic dub was a product of it's times the censorship and the sailor says were part of that, plus anime was something that if it was to air on children's tv it was gonna end up like that, look at the original voltron, great show but very much edited and watered down from the original

what I'm getting at is would American tv allow for an uncensored version of sm in the mid 90s? this would affect it's popularity and such like where/when to air plus marketing etc obviously young girls have to be the demographic so the edits were made with them in mind I don't think the viz would fly in 1995 on the business point of view because of the way the times were

if only this dub existed in the mid 00's it could have had a shot at the then Saturday only dying toonami and could have been a possible saving grace? maybe? maybe not but it's just a thought or at least another channel

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 Post subject: Re: If aired in the 90s, would the Viz dub have been as popular?
PostPosted: Sun Mar 05, 2017 7:11 am 
Aurorae Lunares
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If you mean in it's current uncensored format as much as I love the Viz dub, I don't think it would have succeeded in the 90s. if they tried to air it n a kid friendly timeslot, the parents' media watch dog groups would be out with the lawsuit pitchforks against the show. Anime wasn't very popular back then and animation was still largely regarded as for kids, so there wouldn't have been a late night block on Cartoon Network for it to air on. There was Sci Fi Channel but they mostly focused on ultra violent OVAs and movies and Sailor Moon would be out of place there. Viz could have released it on VHS but Sailor Moon probably wouldn't have been any more popular than Ramna 1/2 was. It'd still have a niche following with diehard anime fans if they went that route, I think, but it wouldn't be as big as it is today. But if Viz like put out a more lightly edited dub that was more faithful to the original but was passable enough for American censorship, I think it still could have had a niche following. Most of the anime that Toonami aired in the 90s were lightly edited but still kept the same plot, the same music, and the same names and stuff like that. Shows like Gundam Wing, Tenchi Muyo, and Outlaw Star got the lightly edited treatment and might not have been as big as say Pokemon or DBZ, but they were pretty popular with the larger anime fandom throughout the 90s and most of the old school Toonami anime are still pretty fondly remembered. Like most of the same people who grew up watching Sailor Moon also grew up watching Gundam Wing and Rurouni Kenshin and those shows had much more faithful dubs too. So I think Sailor Moon still would have found a niche with anime fandom, but maybe it wouldn't be the juggernaut it is today.


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 Post subject: Re: If aired in the 90s, would the Viz dub have been as popular?
PostPosted: Sun Mar 05, 2017 2:01 pm 
Luna
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Well first off it wouldn't be allowed to aired in an uncensoreds format as a kids show plain and simple. Even now it wouldnt be allowed to air as is on say Nicktoons or Disney X D as it without editing for broadcast.

Viz's Sailor Moon dub would have to have basically a Tenchi Muyo situtation where the uncensored version was released on vhs first and then an edited for tv broadcast version which would need to do stuff like: censor the body lines, either rerecord Zoicite's dialog with a woman and replace all dialog referring to him as male with referring him as female or edit down his relationship with Kunzite to hide any romantic relationship, some kind of censorship to episode 45/46 etc


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 Post subject: Re: If aired in the 90s, would the Viz dub have been as popular?
PostPosted: Mon Mar 06, 2017 5:05 pm 
Planeta
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Oh please, the anime aired uncensored in Brazil and many other countries, and it was a hit.

In Brazil and other countries from Central and South America, the only thing that was changed (aside from the character's names, obviously) was Zoisite's gender, and to this day I believe it was because of a miscommunication or mistake. Everything else was kept, including the original score and Uranus and Neptune's relationship.

Saint Seiya aired uncensored, as well, and it was even more popular than Sailor Moon --and Saint Seiya is very gory and violent and has characters who seem or are gay.

Cardcaptor Sakura aired in Brazil completely uncensored and not even the character's names were changed.

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 Post subject: Re: If aired in the 90s, would the Viz dub have been as popular?
PostPosted: Thu Apr 06, 2017 8:45 pm 
Luna Nova
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No. I feel that as much as people like to criticize the DIC dub the fact remains that it still gave Sailor Moon far more exposure than any uncensored dub would have been able to at the time. The DIC dub aired in syndication on various channels throughout the country as well as on cable networks such as the USA Network and Cartoon Network. An uncensored dub such as Viz's would have given Sailor Moon a cult following as opposed to the popularity it gained with the censored DIC dub.


Last edited by TuxedoSailorEarth on Thu Apr 06, 2017 10:04 pm, edited 2 times in total.

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 Post subject: Re: If aired in the 90s, would the Viz dub have been as popular?
PostPosted: Thu Apr 06, 2017 9:06 pm 
Luna
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Clow wrote:
Oh please, the anime aired uncensored in Brazil and many other countries, and it was a hit.

In Brazil and other countries from Central and South America, the only thing that was changed (aside from the character's names, obviously) was Zoisite's gender, and to this day I believe it was because of a miscommunication or mistake. Everything else was kept, including the original score and Uranus and Neptune's relationship.

Saint Seiya aired uncensored, as well, and it was even more popular than Sailor Moon --and Saint Seiya is very gory and violent and has characters who seem or are gay.

Cardcaptor Sakura aired in Brazil completely uncensored and not even the character's names were changed.


Brazil and the US, are very similar countries that hold very similar cultural values after all. Heck Sailor Moon was a hit in Japan and it was uncensored there!!!

No, half of us here would not be on this message board today if it weren't for DiC.

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 Post subject: Re: If aired in the 90s, would the Viz dub have been as popular?
PostPosted: Fri Apr 07, 2017 2:05 am 
Luna Crescens
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Clow wrote:
Oh please, the anime aired uncensored in Brazil and many other countries, and it was a hit.

In Brazil and other countries from Central and South America, the only thing that was changed (aside from the character's names, obviously) was Zoisite's gender, and to this day I believe it was because of a miscommunication or mistake. Everything else was kept, including the original score and Uranus and Neptune's relationship.

Saint Seiya aired uncensored, as well, and it was even more popular than Sailor Moon --and Saint Seiya is very gory and violent and has characters who seem or are gay.

Cardcaptor Sakura aired in Brazil completely uncensored and not even the character's names were changed.


No, Sailor Moon wasn't a hit in Brazil. It was a moderate success, but both times the show was on air, it ultimately failed in the sales department. The licensed products didn't sell well.
Record (a TV station owned by a neopentecostal church) actually bought both R and S, but never aired the S season, and I bet that was because of Haruka and Michiru. If it wasn't for Cartoon Network BR, we would never have got to see the whole series. (Tho I think wish R-Stars would be better not airing than being broadcast with that awful dub). And I bet that could happen because most people didn't have access to cable in Brazil in the early 2000s, so there was no room for controversy.
You can take Mexico and Italy as countries where Sailor Moon was an actual hit. Where in Italy the Stars season never got a second rerun until 2010, in Mexico all seasons were pulled off from TV Azteca's schedule, under claims of the series promoting "homosexuality" and " satanism".
The faithful versions weren't able to deal with zero controversy like you are saying. And even though they were closer to the original version, the dialogues were always softened when it came to homosexuality and other taboo subjects. Specially in Italy, where a famous conservative female psycologist blamed Sailor Moon for confusing young boys about their sexuality.
And Zoisite's gender-swapping in the latin spanish and brazilian portuguese dubs was straight-forward censorship. Don't be fooled, that happened even in Sweden, let alone latino countries.


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 Post subject: Re: If aired in the 90s, would the Viz dub have been as popular?
PostPosted: Fri Apr 07, 2017 6:51 am 
Stella
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I will say this when it comes to censorship in the Latin American dubs that it is weird that they would gender swap Zoisite but not Fisheye however kevoso96 on the Swedish dub according to what I have read in the past I don't think their turning Zoisite into a female was censorship. Based on what I heard the people dubbing the anime mistakenly thought that Zoisite was female in the original and dubbed accordingly. Also those are interesting insights into the Latin American and Brazilian dub censorship kevoso.

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 Post subject: Re: If aired in the 90s, would the Viz dub have been as popular?
PostPosted: Fri Apr 07, 2017 1:40 pm 
Aurorae Lunares
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Probably not sailor moon got its start by beig watch by children . If it was release like this most people probably wouldn't heard about it .Lot people won't admit but if it wasn't for these crappy dubs. Will probably wouldn't have the viz release, and not be anime fas at all.


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 Post subject: Re: If aired in the 90s, would the Viz dub have been as popular?
PostPosted: Fri Apr 07, 2017 2:44 pm 
Solaris Luna
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Who knows? The dub would be very different if Viz did it back in the 90's. The distribution would be very different, I doubt it would get sold to a major television network.

Clow wrote:
Oh please, the anime aired uncensored in Brazil and many other countries, and it was a hit.


The problem is cultural differences. There are plenty of anime series that were released around the world, uncensored, that were largely popular, yet failed in the US. Off the top of my head -- Urusei Yatsura, Grendizer, Candy Candy, Doraemon, and Saint Seiya.

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Saint Seiya aired uncensored, as well, and it was even more popular than Sailor Moon --and Saint Seiya is very gory and violent and has characters who seem or are gay.


Saint Seiya bombed in the US, multiple times. Different dubs, different series, all of them never took off. It's gotten to the point where Discotek Media won't even license any of Masami Kurumada's series. I'm not sure if it's because we got it so late, or what, but Saint Seiya just isn't made for the US.


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 Post subject: Re: If aired in the 90s, would the Viz dub have been as popular?
PostPosted: Fri Apr 07, 2017 5:14 pm 
Luna
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They're not comparable.

One is the anime as it was intended to be and the other is a heavily censored version for that time.
You have to take in the context. I could maybe have seen an uncensored version air on Adult Swim, but other than that they're simply too different to be able to tell.


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 Post subject: Re: If aired in the 90s, would the Viz dub have been as popular?
PostPosted: Fri Apr 07, 2017 5:50 pm 
Aurorae Lunares
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SILVER wrote:
They're not comparable.

One is the anime as it was intended to be and the other is a heavily censored version for that time.
You have to take in the context. I could maybe have seen an uncensored version air on Adult Swim, but other than that they're simply too different to be able to tell.

I don't even think it could work on adult swim it's too cute.


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 Post subject: Re: If aired in the 90s, would the Viz dub have been as popular?
PostPosted: Fri Apr 07, 2017 7:03 pm 
Systema Solare
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Umino wrote:
Clow wrote:
Saint Seiya aired uncensored, as well, and it was even more popular than Sailor Moon --and Saint Seiya is very gory and violent and has characters who seem or are gay.


Saint Seiya bombed in the US, multiple times. Different dubs, different series, all of them never took off. It's gotten to the point where Discotek Media won't even license any of Masami Kurumada's series. I'm not sure if it's because we got it so late, or what, but Saint Seiya just isn't made for the US.


It really sucks what happened with Lost Canvas but the original series failing the second time I blame solely on New Video/Cinedigm and how they handled the Sanctuary arc. They licensed the show around the same time that Discotek released the 4 movies and their DVD release was bad. They didn't include the ADV redub for episodes 1-60 and then there was the subs which in addition to them using old Toei scripts from a long time ago, were mistimed badly, with some lines disappearing fast, on almost every episode (I only remember 1 episode being where they were timed properly but they also looked different than usual so I have no idea what happened there) and then when they later posted the episodes to Amazon Video & other sites, they were not only timed properly but also handled differently (comparison: DVD / Online), then they also didn't sub any of the songs & next episode previews and that the episode titles in the DVD menus didn't always match what's on the episodes themselves (Episode 1 Example: Menu / Episode). This company turned a lot of fans away with how they handled those DVDs and also managed to botch other DVD releases (see Mononoke's last 2 episodes with the same sub problems, see Zatch Bell only having the edited Viz dub and missing the last 4 episodes, see Slam Dunk and them only re-releasing the incomplete Toronto dub that Toei had made and never finished back in 04-05) so it was a mess.

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 Post subject: Re: If aired in the 90s, would the Viz dub have been as popular?
PostPosted: Fri Apr 07, 2017 7:35 pm 
Solaris Luna
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Was Saint Seiya big seller for ADV? I know the Knights of the Zodiac dub didn't do that well on Cartoon Network.


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 Post subject: Re: If aired in the 90s, would the Viz dub have been as popular?
PostPosted: Fri Apr 07, 2017 8:49 pm 
Luna Nova
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Umino wrote:
Saint Seiya bombed in the US, multiple times. Different dubs, different series, all of them never took off. It's gotten to the point where Discotek Media won't even license any of Masami Kurumada's series. I'm not sure if it's because we got it so late, or what, but Saint Seiya just isn't made for the US.


I always thought Saint Seiya should have been a big hit here and a lot of it's failure to catch on here had to do with bad timing.
We wound up getting it dubbed here very late. The edited dub that DIC did aired on Cartoon Network over 14 years after it ended in Japan and by then it was considered too old and dated.
Unfortunately the same thing happened with the original anime of Hunter X Hunter in which Viz finally got around to dubbing and releasing it a decade after it premiered. Fortunately Viz did not make the same mistake with the 2011 version.


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 Post subject: Re: If aired in the 90s, would the Viz dub have been as popular?
PostPosted: Sat Apr 08, 2017 4:14 am 
Systema Solare
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Umino wrote:
Was Saint Seiya big seller for ADV? I know the Knights of the Zodiac dub didn't do that well on Cartoon Network.


I can't speak for how it did for ADV but I remember reading different reasons as to why they didn't get more early in it's run which either had to do with DiC & their own dub flopping or with Toei being difficult since it was around that time that they set up their Los Angeles branch and tried to release shows here themselves (and failed miserably at it).

With ADV, they did re-release their dub (& sub) in 2 box sets first in thinpaks in 2006 and then in STACKpaks in 2009 but they teased at Anime Central that year that they wanted to get more & continue the dub but it didn't happen since DiC/Cookie Jar's license expired a few months later and ADV was having their own problems due to the whole Sojitz/ARM fiasco from a year earlier.

TuxedoSailorEarth wrote:
Unfortunately the same thing happened with the original anime of Hunter X Hunter in which Viz finally got around to dubbing and releasing it a decade after it premiered. Fortunately Viz did not make the same mistake with the 2011 version.


I still find it surprising that Viz even gave the 2011 series a chance because they had said themselves in the past that the original flopped for them on DVD (though it was mostly their fault since those sets had issues) which was why they passed on getting the 3 sequel OVAs and let that show's license expire.

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