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 Post subject: Jupiter and Venus upgrades
PostPosted: Sat Mar 11, 2017 5:12 am 
Lumen Cinereum
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Apart from the power ups in the Doom Tree Arc, Makoto and Minako always shared their upgrade episodes (gaining Star Power and Super Powers). I know they are great friends and the episodes were good ones but I was a bit disappointed they weren't given individual episodes. Does anyone else have any opinions on this subject?


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 Post subject: Re: Jupiter and Venus upgrades
PostPosted: Sat Mar 11, 2017 5:34 am 
Lumen Cinereum
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That's a good question. Maybe they wanted to develop Mako and Minako's relationship by giving them feud/joint power-up episodes, since they joined the team after the original trio (Moon, Mercury, and Mars).

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 Post subject: Re: Jupiter and Venus upgrades
PostPosted: Sat Mar 11, 2017 5:37 am 
Lumen Cinereum
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Moon Star wrote:
That's a good question. Maybe they wanted to develop Mako and Minako's relationship by giving them feud/joint power-up episodes, since they joined the team after the original trio (Moon, Mercury, and Mars).


That may be


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 Post subject: Re: Jupiter and Venus upgrades
PostPosted: Sat Mar 11, 2017 5:39 am 
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Should have had more Jupiter and Mercury episodes. :mischief:

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 Post subject: Re: Jupiter and Venus upgrades
PostPosted: Sat Mar 11, 2017 5:42 am 
Lumen Cinereum
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SailorWelshy wrote:
Should have had more Jupiter and Mercury episodes. :mischief:


I wouldn't mind that.


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 Post subject: Re: Jupiter and Venus upgrades
PostPosted: Sat Mar 11, 2017 7:15 am 
Aurorae Lunares
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I wondered this too when I was a kid. I would've liked them to have serparate episodes. I always thought it was weird. I mean Makoto and Minako were never great friends... Now that I think about it, it may just be because they didn't have interesting enough storylines separately.

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 Post subject: Re: Jupiter and Venus upgrades
PostPosted: Sat Mar 11, 2017 8:32 am 
Stella Nova
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I think,their powers aren't in the four elements (water,fire,air,earth) but ami and rei's are.so they have individual episodes while makoto and minako haven't. It sounds silly but that's just my humble opinion :)

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 Post subject: Re: Jupiter and Venus upgrades
PostPosted: Sat Mar 11, 2017 11:41 am 
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posting.php?mode=quote&f=22&p=357115

Maetch wrote:
:minako: - She feels like an unnecessary fifth wheel. We've got Usagi for leadership and morale, Ami for intelligence, Rei for spiritual guidance, and Makoto for physical support, but Minako always seemed just sort of... there. Plus, in the anime, she seems to get dumber with every season. How she went from her Sailor V-level confidence and maturity to comic relief is beyond me.


:googly:

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 Post subject: Re: Jupiter and Venus upgrades
PostPosted: Sat Mar 11, 2017 12:09 pm 
Solaris Luna
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I didn't mind them getting their Star Power ups together, but them sharing their Crystal Power up episode was lame.

I do find the idea of them being close interesting though. I wish the anime had explored it more. It would have been cool to have seen what all the different character dynamics are like. (like what if Mercury and Venus had a focus episode together?)


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 Post subject: Re: Jupiter and Venus upgrades
PostPosted: Sat Mar 11, 2017 2:37 pm 
Lumen Cinereum
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I agree that it totally stinks that they have to share spotlight for upgrade episodes. And it's still a similar bare plot between them: they are friends, they have a fight, they no longer fight, new powers. Lazy writers.


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 Post subject: Re: Jupiter and Venus upgrades
PostPosted: Sat Mar 11, 2017 6:34 pm 
Lumen Cinereum
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The Blizzard Prince wrote:
I didn't mind them getting their Star Power ups together, but them sharing their Crystal Power up episode was lame.

I do find the idea of them being close interesting though. I wish the anime had explored it more. It would have been cool to have seen what all the different character dynamics are like. (like what if Mercury and Venus had a focus episode together?)


I was thinking that as well. The Star power ups as a one time thing would have been a neat thing but it was lazy to do it again when they went to the Crystal level. That is a major power up and I like how the manga handled them.

I too feel that the group dynamics could have been explored a bit more. Really develop certain friendships and see how personalities can clash.


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 Post subject: Re: Jupiter and Venus upgrades
PostPosted: Sat Mar 11, 2017 6:40 pm 
Solaris Luna
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The Blizzard Prince wrote:
I didn't mind them getting their Star Power ups together, but them sharing their Crystal Power up episode was lame.


Same. It just felt really cheap, and lazy. They had enough episodes in the season to fool around with dumb plots (Angry spinster who's secretly lonely makes friend with equally annoying baby cat), so why couldn't they get their own individual episodes?


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 Post subject: Re: Jupiter and Venus upgrades
PostPosted: Sat Mar 11, 2017 6:49 pm 
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SailorWelshy wrote:
Should have had more Jupiter and Mercury episodes. :mischief:

I agree


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 Post subject: Re: Jupiter and Venus upgrades
PostPosted: Sat Mar 11, 2017 9:28 pm 
Aurorae Lunares
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litacan wrote:
I think,their powers aren't in the four elements (water,fire,air,earth) but ami and rei's are.so they have individual episodes while makoto and minako haven't. It sounds silly but that's just my humble opinion :)

Their powers are the four Asian elements based on Eastern beliefs thoughc water, fire, wood, and metal.

Also, Makoto and Minako weren't really that close except when they were fighting over boys like in their power up episodes. I honestly think they couldn't think of a storyline for either of them. And I do agree with Makoto ending up just being there, and Minako being super dumbed down by the end of the series. Like Mercury's power-up episodes were based on her intelligence, Mars was based on her being a shrine maiden. But what are Jupiter and Venus known for?

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 Post subject: Re: Jupiter and Venus upgrades
PostPosted: Sat Mar 11, 2017 9:35 pm 
Lumen Cinereum
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ChibiBoi wrote:
Like Mercury's power-up episodes were based on her intelligence, Mars was based on her being a shrine maiden. But what are Jupiter and Venus known for?


Might be something to discuss and think about. What might have been good plots for their power up episodes? The manga had separate stories but original plots might be nice as well.


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 Post subject: Re: Jupiter and Venus upgrades
PostPosted: Sat Mar 11, 2017 10:40 pm 
Luna
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ChibiBoi wrote:
I wondered this too when I was a kid. I would've liked them to have serparate episodes. I always thought it was weird. I mean Makoto and Minako were never great friends... Now that I think about it, it may just be because they didn't have interesting enough storylines separately.

Laziness and writing, then. Both Minako and Makoto have potentially the best backstories (Minako has her year as Sailor V and whatever happened that left her friendless by the time she joined the main group, Makoto has her story at her previous school and whatever happened to give her a bad reputation, had the writers just tried they could have given them amazing episodes and storylines as proven by the one episode each when their backstories were indeed touched.
rgveda99 wrote:
http://sailormoonforum.com/posting.php?mode=quote&f=22&p=357115

Maetch wrote:
:minako: - She feels like an unnecessary fifth wheel. We've got Usagi for leadership and morale, Ami for intelligence, Rei for spiritual guidance, and Makoto for physical support, but Minako always seemed just sort of... there. Plus, in the anime, she seems to get dumber with every season. How she went from her Sailor V-level confidence and maturity to comic relief is beyond me.


:googly:

At a guess, it's a mix of her holding back to let the others mature and not upstage them (she's a more effective leader than Usagi, has more street smarts than Ami, can match Rei's spiritual guidance if she only decides to try, and a better combat record than Makoto in physical combat) and trying to distract herself from her psychological scars from her solo year.
ChibiBoi wrote:
Also, Makoto and Minako weren't really that close except when they were fighting over boys like in their power up episodes. I honestly think they couldn't think of a storyline for either of them. And I do agree with Makoto ending up just being there, and Minako being super dumbed down by the end of the series. Like Mercury's power-up episodes were based on her intelligence, Mars was based on her being a shrine maiden. But what are Jupiter and Venus known for?

Makoto for her cooking and strength, Minako for being awesome. Mostly off-screen, but she's the only one to jump from the street to the first floor of a home without transforming or even getting a run-up, has better combat moves than Mako, when her Dream Mirror was explored she got turned on (instead of fainting in pain. She was still exhausted, but once Artemis woke her up she proceeded to kick Eagle Eye and Tiger Eye's collective asses) and when her Heart Crystal was stolen... Well, look at it, and remember she had just given blood.

doctorwho29 wrote:
Might be something to discuss and think about. What might have been good plots for their power up episodes? The manga had separate stories but original plots might be nice as well.

I have a few ideas.

Makoto:
  • Finally seeing her sempai, and why exactly Mako is so fixated on him.
  • The return of Shinozaki.
  • Explore whatever happened to give her that bad reputation.

Minako
  • Exploring a bit more Minako's year as Sailor V.
  • Bringing Hikaru and Amano to the anime and explain why she doesn't even mention them.
  • Why Minako lost all her other school friends.
  • Explore her relationship with her parents, especially her mother.
  • What is her relationship with the Metropolitan Police in the anime?
  • Showing on-screen the development of her rather close relationship with Rei that is only hinted at on-screen.

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 Post subject: Re: Jupiter and Venus upgrades
PostPosted: Sat Mar 11, 2017 11:03 pm 
Lumen Cinereum
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lord Martiya wrote:

Makoto:
  • Finally seeing her sempai, and why exactly Mako is so fixated on him.
  • The return of Shinozaki.
  • Explore whatever happened to give her that bad reputation.

Minako
  • Exploring a bit more Minako's year as Sailor V.
  • Bringing Hikaru and Amano to the anime and explain why she doesn't even mention them.
  • Why Minako lost all her other school friends.
  • Explore her relationship with her parents, especially her mother.
  • What is her relationship with the Metropolitan Police in the anime?
  • Showing on-screen the development of her rather close relationship with Rei that is only hinted at on-screen.


Not bad ideas. I like them :)


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 Post subject: Re: Jupiter and Venus upgrades
PostPosted: Sun Mar 12, 2017 1:11 am 
Stella
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The Blizzard Prince wrote:
I didn't mind them getting their Star Power ups together, but them sharing their Crystal Power up episode was lame.

I do find the idea of them being close interesting though. I wish the anime had explored it more. It would have been cool to have seen what all the different character dynamics are like. (like what if Mercury and Venus had a focus episode together?)

Yeah I was ok with them getting their Star Power upgrades together but the Crystal Power upgrade was just reductive. I agree wit would have been cool if Sailor Mercury and Sailor Venus had a focus episode together or even the more traditional pairings of Mercury and Jupiter along with Mars and Venus.

Also I definitely agree with lord Martiya any of those ideas would have made great episodes for Makoto or Minako. I also always wished the 90s anime had adapted the Sailor V story as a prequel to Sailor Moon. They could have even added the London story as well as a kind of bridge from the Sailor V story adapted from the manga and from where Sailor Venus eventually reunites with the Senshi. I also would like to see the return of Shinozaki but honestly if Makoto could get with anyone I wish they would have brought in Ittou Asanuma and put the two together as I really liked them together in the manga. Maybe instead Shinozaki could get with Makoto's friend Tomoko Takase who wrote the Illusion of Pegasus book.

I would also like to see episodes focusing on Minako's past such as her relationship with her parents and even to include her friends Hikaru and Amano from the manga.

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 Post subject: Re: Jupiter and Venus upgrades
PostPosted: Sun Mar 12, 2017 5:35 am 
Solaris Luna
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It's nice to see so many people agree with me! My biggest issue with the SuperS episode was how lazy it was. Forcing them to share an episode was bad enough, but recycling their R plot made it even worse. It was especially disappointing after how solid the focus episodes Mercury and Mars got beforehand were. (which not only focused on them solo, but tried to do something different with them)


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 Post subject: Re: Jupiter and Venus upgrades
PostPosted: Sun Mar 12, 2017 11:19 am 
Luna Crescens
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lord Martiya wrote:
ChibiBoi wrote:
I wondered this too when I was a kid. I would've liked them to have serparate episodes. I always thought it was weird. I mean Makoto and Minako were never great friends... Now that I think about it, it may just be because they didn't have interesting enough storylines separately.

Laziness and writing, then. Both Minako and Makoto have potentially the best backstories (Minako has her year as Sailor V and whatever happened that left her friendless by the time she joined the main group, Makoto has her story at her previous school and whatever happened to give her a bad reputation, had the writers just tried they could have given them amazing episodes and storylines as proven by the one episode each when their backstories were indeed touched.
rgveda99 wrote:
http://sailormoonforum.com/posting.php?mode=quote&f=22&p=357115

Maetch wrote:
:minako: - She feels like an unnecessary fifth wheel. We've got Usagi for leadership and morale, Ami for intelligence, Rei for spiritual guidance, and Makoto for physical support, but Minako always seemed just sort of... there. Plus, in the anime, she seems to get dumber with every season. How she went from her Sailor V-level confidence and maturity to comic relief is beyond me.


:googly:

At a guess, it's a mix of her holding back to let the others mature and not upstage them (she's a more effective leader than Usagi, has more street smarts than Ami, can match Rei's spiritual guidance if she only decides to try, and a better combat record than Makoto in physical combat) and trying to distract herself from her psychological scars from her solo year.
ChibiBoi wrote:
Also, Makoto and Minako weren't really that close except when they were fighting over boys like in their power up episodes. I honestly think they couldn't think of a storyline for either of them. And I do agree with Makoto ending up just being there, and Minako being super dumbed down by the end of the series. Like Mercury's power-up episodes were based on her intelligence, Mars was based on her being a shrine maiden. But what are Jupiter and Venus known for?

Makoto for her cooking and strength, Minako for being awesome. Mostly off-screen, but she's the only one to jump from the street to the first floor of a home without transforming or even getting a run-up, has better combat moves than Mako, when her Dream Mirror was explored she got turned on (instead of fainting in pain. She was still exhausted, but once Artemis woke her up she proceeded to kick Eagle Eye and Tiger Eye's collective asses) and when

Makoto:
  • Finally seeing her sempai, and why exactly Mako is so fixated on him.
  • The return of Shinozaki.
  • Explore whatever happened to give her that bad reputation.

Minako
  • Exploring a bit more Minako's year as Sailor V.
  • Bringing Hikaru and Amano to the anime and explain why she doesn't even mention them.
  • Why Minako lost all her other school friends.
  • Explore her relationship with her parents, especially her mother.
  • What is her relationship with the Metropolitan Police in the anime?
  • Showing on-screen the development of her rather close relationship with Rei that is only hinted at on-screen.



For Minako, it's as close as we're going to get for a Sailor V adaptation. A few things add to Makoto's list: explaining how she made on her own for that long, what her source of income is because it's implied by inherentence, plus explaining the ordeal after her parents died.


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 Post subject: Re: Jupiter and Venus upgrades
PostPosted: Sun Mar 12, 2017 11:18 pm 
Luna
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doctorwho29 wrote:
Apart from the power ups in the Doom Tree Arc, Makoto and Minako always shared their upgrade episodes (gaining Star Power and Super Powers). I know they are great friends and the episodes were good ones but I was a bit disappointed they weren't given individual episodes. Does anyone else have any opinions on this subject?

I thought it was pretty shitty of Toei to make them share a power episode TWICE (out of three)

That's my opinion


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