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 Post subject: Re: Sailor Moon Pet Peeves
PostPosted: Tue Jul 18, 2017 8:48 pm 
Aurorae Lunares
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LifeGaveMeLemons wrote:
People who say the DiC dub made Mars an irredeemable b word.
The DiC dub did exaggerate a lot of Rei's flaws though. The best example is in the season one episode where the Inners are pretending to hate each other. In the Japanese version, Usagi was the one who asked Rei to guard the Moon Stick because she trusted her the most to protect it. In the DiC dub, they changed it so that Raye stole the Crescent Moon Wand because she thought Serena was too irresponsible to keep it safe.


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 Post subject: Re: Sailor Moon Pet Peeves
PostPosted: Tue Jul 18, 2017 9:04 pm 
Solaris Luna
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Neon Genesis wrote:
LifeGaveMeLemons wrote:
People who say the DiC dub made Mars an irredeemable b word.
The DiC dub did exaggerate a lot of Rei's flaws though. The best example is in the season one episode where the Inners are pretending to hate each other. In the Japanese version, Usagi was the one who asked Rei to guard the Moon Stick because she trusted her the most to protect it. In the DiC dub, they changed it so that Raye stole the Crescent Moon Wand because she thought Serena was too irresponsible to keep it safe.


Raye DID. NOT. STEAL IT. Serena LEFT it behind at Raye's place and Raye merely hadn't gotten around to returning it. You can question why Raye hadn't returned it, and you can criticize DiC for making Serena more careless in that episode, but this "Raye stole the wand" narrative is false and needs to die.

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 Post subject: Re: Sailor Moon Pet Peeves
PostPosted: Tue Jul 18, 2017 9:19 pm 
Galaxias
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MementoNepenthe wrote:
Neon Genesis wrote:
LifeGaveMeLemons wrote:
People who say the DiC dub made Mars an irredeemable b word.
The DiC dub did exaggerate a lot of Rei's flaws though. The best example is in the season one episode where the Inners are pretending to hate each other. In the Japanese version, Usagi was the one who asked Rei to guard the Moon Stick because she trusted her the most to protect it. In the DiC dub, they changed it so that Raye stole the Crescent Moon Wand because she thought Serena was too irresponsible to keep it safe.


Raye DID. NOT. STEAL IT. Serena LEFT it behind at Raye's place and Raye merely hadn't gotten around to returning it. You can question why Raye hadn't returned it, and you can criticize DiC for making Serena more careless in that episode, but this "Raye stole the wand" narrative is false and needs to die.
One thing that is true, however, is how DiC made Raye call Serena a "failure" behind her back, want to usurp her as leader, and mutinously refuse to come help her fight the monster of the day, in episode 26 (Japanese numbering).

She also bizarrely claimed, to herself, that the only reason Moon and Jupiter defeated the monster from the episode right before was because they had help from Tuxedo Mask, which isn't true since Tuxedo Mask didn't appear in that episode.

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 Post subject: Re: Sailor Moon Pet Peeves
PostPosted: Wed Jul 19, 2017 4:03 am 
Stella
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They did make Rei in the dub meaner then she was in the original. I still begrudge them for changing the fact that Usagi gave Rei the Moon Stick because she wasn't confident that she wouldn't give it to the Dark Kingdom in exchange for Mamoru, illustrating how close Usagi and Rei were to saying that Usagi left it at Rei's house.

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 Post subject: Re: Sailor Moon Pet Peeves
PostPosted: Wed Jul 19, 2017 6:21 am 
Luna Nova
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Sabrblade wrote:
She also bizarrely claimed, to herself, that the only reason Moon and Jupiter defeated the monster from the episode right before was because they had help from Tuxedo Mask, which isn't true since Tuxedo Mask didn't appear in that episode.

Well considering that Tuxedo Mask appears quite often, it wouldn't surprise me if she went to that conclusion.


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 Post subject: Re: Sailor Moon Pet Peeves
PostPosted: Wed Jul 19, 2017 12:20 pm 
Stella
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musa wrote:
Sabrblade wrote:
She also bizarrely claimed, to herself, that the only reason Moon and Jupiter defeated the monster from the episode right before was because they had help from Tuxedo Mask, which isn't true since Tuxedo Mask didn't appear in that episode.

Well considering that Tuxedo Mask appears quite often, it wouldn't surprise me if she went to that conclusion.

Yeah but wouldn't Usagi and Makoto have told Ami and Rei the events of the battle previously making Rei's comment erroneous.

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 Post subject: Re: Sailor Moon Pet Peeves
PostPosted: Wed Jul 19, 2017 12:58 pm 
Solaris Luna
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Maybe Raye was referring to an unseen battle rather than to the events of the previous episode. That's a possibility as well.

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 Post subject: Re: Sailor Moon Pet Peeves
PostPosted: Wed Jul 19, 2017 1:11 pm 
Luna
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Sabrblade wrote:
One thing that is true, however, is how DiC made Raye call Serena a "failure" behind her back, want to usurp her as leader, and mutinously refuse to come help her fight the monster of the day, in episode 26 (Japanese numbering).

One thing that is also true is she later dropped the notion of being leader and APOLOGIZED to Serena for doubting her as leader and was hurt when Serena proclaimed Raye always hated her.


Like Raye's meanness. Old dub bashers way overexaggerate the leader thing.


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She also bizarrely claimed, to herself, that the only reason Moon and Jupiter defeated the monster from the episode right before was because they had help from Tuxedo Mask, which isn't true since Tuxedo Mask didn't appear in that episode.


Because people don't ever make false assumptios, right? She wasn't there, she incorrectly assumed Tuxedo Mask helped like he had most of the time.


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 Post subject: Re: Sailor Moon Pet Peeves
PostPosted: Wed Jul 19, 2017 1:49 pm 
Luna Crescens
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Sabrblade wrote:
[
Raye DID. NOT. STEAL IT. Serena LEFT it behind at Raye's place and Raye merely hadn't gotten around to returning it. You can question why Raye hadn't returned it, and you can criticize DiC for making Serena more careless in that episode, but this "Raye stole the wand" narrative is false and needs to die.
One thing that is true, however, is how DiC made Raye call Serena a "failure" behind her back, want to usurp her as leader, and mutinously refuse to come help her fight the monster of the day, in episode 26 (Japanese numbering).

She also bizarrely claimed, to herself, that the only reason Moon and Jupiter defeated the monster from the episode right before was because they had help from Tuxedo Mask, which isn't true since Tuxedo Mask didn't appear in that episode.[/quote]
Yeah that wasn't nice of Raye to say to Serena. I mean I guess they were trying to make It comical on how irresponsible Serena was, but still, Raye tho........

I can't help myself from laughing every time I hear Raye say Tuxedo Mask assisted them. It just reminds me of how inconsistent DIC can be with their storylines.


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 Post subject: Re: Sailor Moon Pet Peeves
PostPosted: Wed Jul 19, 2017 1:51 pm 
Luna Crescens
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Cierra Moon wrote:
Sabrblade wrote:
[
Raye DID. NOT. STEAL IT. Serena LEFT it behind at Raye's place and Raye merely hadn't gotten around to returning it. You can question why Raye hadn't returned it, and you can criticize DiC for making Serena more careless in that episode, but this "Raye stole the wand" narrative is false and needs to die.
One thing that is true, however, is how DiC made Raye call Serena a "failure" behind her back, want to usurp her as leader, and mutinously refuse to come help her fight the monster of the day, in episode 26 (Japanese numbering).

She also bizarrely claimed, to herself, that the only reason Moon and Jupiter defeated the monster from the episode right before was because they had help from Tuxedo Mask, which isn't true since Tuxedo Mask didn't appear in that episode.

Yeah that wasn't nice of Raye to say to Serena. I mean I guess they were trying to make It comical on how irresponsible Serena was, but still, Raye tho........

I can't help myself from laughing every time I hear Raye say Tuxedo Mask assisted them. It just reminds me of how inconsistent DIC can be with their storylines.[/quote]
Sorry about the above. For some reason, my quoting has been acting up on my phone lol


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 Post subject: Re: Sailor Moon Pet Peeves
PostPosted: Wed Jul 19, 2017 2:17 pm 
Galaxias
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MementoNepenthe wrote:
Maybe Raye was referring to an unseen battle rather than to the events of the previous episode. That's a possibility as well.
She was not. The exact lines were:

Lita: "I think we can handle 'em. Sailor Moon and I dusted that game machine monster easy!"
Raye (thinking irately): "Yeah! With a little assist from Tuxedo Mask!"


LifeGaveMeLemons wrote:
Sabrblade wrote:
One thing that is true, however, is how DiC made Raye call Serena a "failure" behind her back, want to usurp her as leader, and mutinously refuse to come help her fight the monster of the day, in episode 26 (Japanese numbering).

One thing that is also true is she later dropped the notion of being leader and APOLOGIZED to Serena for doubting her as leader and was hurt when Serena proclaimed Raye always hated her.
She wouldn't have even had to apologize in the DiC version (several episodes later after the fact, even) if they hadn't, you know, made her so mean in the first place.

LifeGaveMeLemons wrote:
Quote:
She also bizarrely claimed, to herself, that the only reason Moon and Jupiter defeated the monster from the episode right before was because they had help from Tuxedo Mask, which isn't true since Tuxedo Mask didn't appear in that episode.


Because people don't ever make false assumptios, right? She wasn't there, she incorrectly assumed Tuxedo Mask helped like he had most of the time.
Why would she even make that assumption to begin with? What reason would she have had to even doubt Lita's claim of her and Sailor Moon having dealt with the game machine monster? Were it just Sailor Moon by herself that Lita was claiming, sure, I could see Raye thinking Tuxedo Mask helped, but Lita included herself in the claim. Why would Raye think Lita, let alone both her and Sailor Moon together, needed help from Tuxedo Mask to beat the monster when she has no reason to think such? It doesn't make any sense and comes across as just pure spitefulness.

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 Post subject: Re: Sailor Moon Pet Peeves
PostPosted: Wed Jul 19, 2017 3:27 pm 
Solaris Luna
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Sabrblade wrote:
MementoNepenthe wrote:
Maybe Raye was referring to an unseen battle rather than to the events of the previous episode. That's a possibility as well.
She was not. The exact lines were:

Lita: "I think we can handle 'em. Sailor Moon and I dusted that game machine monster easy!"
Raye (thinking irately): "Yeah! With a little assist from Tuxedo Mask!"


Then it's just a goof then. Either way, it's not particularly germane to the "DiC made Raye so mean!!!!" issue.

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 Post subject: Re: Sailor Moon Pet Peeves
PostPosted: Wed Jul 19, 2017 3:34 pm 
Luna Crescens
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MementoNepenthe wrote:
Sabrblade wrote:
MementoNepenthe wrote:
Maybe Raye was referring to an unseen battle rather than to the events of the previous episode. That's a possibility as well.
She was not. The exact lines were:

Lita: "I think we can handle 'em. Sailor Moon and I dusted that game machine monster easy!"
Raye (thinking irately): "Yeah! With a little assist from Tuxedo Mask!"


Then it's just a goof then. Either way, it's not particularly germane to the "DiC made Raye so mean!!!!" issue.

I guess they thought it related to Raye being mean because her line showed how Raye was degrading them as Sailor Warriors as it implies that they couldn't take down the monster by themselves (which they did).


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 Post subject: Re: Sailor Moon Pet Peeves
PostPosted: Wed Jul 19, 2017 4:16 pm 
Luna Nova
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I think the main problem LifeGaveMeLemons has is that Raye haters often overlook her nice moments.

+ In "A Bad Hair Day", she was the first person to come to her defense saying that the man she fell in love with has been taken away from her.
+ In "Fractious Friends", she was the first person to come to Serena's rescue.
+ In "Ice Princess", she disregarded the development in the original version. The DiC version had no such caveat.

I do realise they are probably in the Japanese version. And thanks to DiC cutting out violence, they (unintentionally or not, I can't say) made her nicer.


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 Post subject: Re: Sailor Moon Pet Peeves
PostPosted: Wed Jul 19, 2017 4:49 pm 
Galaxias
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musa wrote:
I think the main problem LifeGaveMeLemons has is that Raye haters often overlook her nice moments.
Thing is, most of her nice moments in the DiC version weren't the product of DiC's dubbing but were instead due to their having already been there in the original, with the animation showing her being nice requiring DiC to keep her being nice in those scenes. DiC rarely ever invented their own "nice Raye" moments that weren't already present in the original, but did have a tendency in at least the first season to invent "mean Raye" moments in places where she wasn't mean (or at least not as mean) in the original. DiC eased off on this over time, but the damage had already been done by that point and had rubbed many people the wrong way.

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 Post subject: Re: Sailor Moon Pet Peeves
PostPosted: Wed Jul 19, 2017 4:53 pm 
Aurorae Lunares
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I would say Dic did made Rei meanerbut in reality she was not that better in the original. She was verry mean


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 Post subject: Re: Sailor Moon Pet Peeves
PostPosted: Thu Jul 20, 2017 12:34 am 
Aurorae Lunares
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MementoNepenthe wrote:

Raye DID. NOT. STEAL IT. Serena LEFT it behind at Raye's place and Raye merely hadn't gotten around to returning it. You can question why Raye hadn't returned it, and you can criticize DiC for making Serena more careless in that episode, but this "Raye stole the wand" narrative is false and needs to die.
You need to calm down. It's just a fictional TV show we're talking about.

Quote:
Why would she even make that assumption to begin with? What reason would she have had to even doubt Lita's claim of her and Sailor Moon having dealt with the game machine monster? Were it just Sailor Moon by herself that Lita was claiming, sure, I could see Raye thinking Tuxedo Mask helped, but Lita included herself in the claim. Why would Raye think Lita, let alone both her and Sailor Moon together, needed help from Tuxedo Mask to beat the monster when she has no reason to think such? It doesn't make any sense and comes across as just pure spitefulness.
Didn't DiC do recording for the episodes out of order? If they did, it would make sense that they would make that inconsistent error if they dubbed that episode before they dubbed the Sailor Jupiter intro episode and the writers probably just assumed Tuxedo Mask was in the episode.

Quote:
Thing is, most of her nice moments in the DiC version weren't the product of DiC's dubbing but were instead due to their having already been there in the original, with the animation showing her being nice requiring DiC to keep her being nice in those scenes. DiC rarely ever invented their own "nice Raye" moments that weren't already present in the original, but did have a tendency in at least the first season to invent "mean Raye" moments in places where she wasn't mean (or at least not as mean) in the original. DiC eased off on this over time, but the damage had already been done by that point and had rubbed many people the wrong way.
The DiC dub also frequently exaggerated most of the characters' personality flaws in general as do most localized anime dubs. For example, DiC also changed it in Rei's intro episode to have Amy tell Serena she looks like a frog when in the Japanese version she was just making an observation that Usagi shouldn't use the word love so lightly if she hasn't been in love herself.


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 Post subject: Re: Sailor Moon Pet Peeves
PostPosted: Thu Jul 20, 2017 6:02 am 
Luna Nova
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Why do people assume she stole the wand anyway? For all we know it she could be keeping it safe.


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 Post subject: Re: Sailor Moon Pet Peeves
PostPosted: Thu Jul 20, 2017 7:37 am 
Galaxias
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musa wrote:
Why do people assume she stole the wand anyway? For all we know it she could be keeping it safe.
It's simply a misconception that has spread throughout the fandom over the years.

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 Post subject: Re: Sailor Moon Pet Peeves
PostPosted: Thu Jul 20, 2017 10:51 pm 
Aurorae Lunares
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Because if you take something somebody accidentally left in your room and don't tell anybody that you did, that usually counts as stealing?


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 Post subject: Re: Sailor Moon Pet Peeves
PostPosted: Thu Jul 20, 2017 11:10 pm 
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My biggest peev in manga and Sailor Stars anime, Usagi has so many guardians that were introduced in her light, which means she no longer talks to her average friends like Naru & Umino. I know people wished Naru was a senshi. But every time I look up the R Movie, I get pissed by the fact the inners got attracted to Usagi and came out of their hermit-like behavior cause of her.

I just find the leading character to be shallow. Which is why I rarely do art on her.

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 Post subject: Re: Sailor Moon Pet Peeves
PostPosted: Thu Jul 20, 2017 11:40 pm 
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Yinggirl wrote:
My biggest peev in manga and Sailor Stars anime, Usagi has so many guardians that were introduced in her light, which means she no longer talks to her average friends like Naru & Umino. I know people wished Naru was a senshi. But every time I look up the R Movie, I get pissed by the fact the inners got attracted to Usagi and came out of their hermit-like behavior cause of her.

I just find the leading character to be shallow. Which is why I rarely do art on her.

Well to be fair here, Usagi just kinda grew apart from them. She had to focus on her new enemy in Sailor Stars. There's also a possibility that Naru and Umino got admitted into a different high school that wasn't close by.


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 Post subject: Re: Sailor Moon Pet Peeves
PostPosted: Thu Jul 20, 2017 11:46 pm 
Galaxias
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Yinggirl wrote:
My biggest peev in manga and Sailor Stars anime, Usagi has so many guardians that were introduced in her light, which means she no longer talks to her average friends like Naru & Umino. I know people wished Naru was a senshi. But every time I look up the R Movie, I get pissed by the fact the inners got attracted to Usagi and came out of their hermit-like behavior cause of her.

I just find the leading character to be shallow. Which is why I rarely do art on her.
Usagi (and Michiru) had lunch with Naru in one of the Stars arc chapters of the manga. Naru's still a part of Usagi's life in that version, she's just not important enough to the narrative of the story for her to be featured in every aspect of it.

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 Post subject: Re: Sailor Moon Pet Peeves
PostPosted: Fri Jul 21, 2017 8:56 am 
Aurorae Lunares
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My biggest pet peeve is that we still don't have a modern Sailor Moon video game. We have tons of merchandise, figures, wands, two mobile games, but still no modern console game for Sailor Moon. Anime themed games are a lot more common in the U.S. now than they were in the 90s and there's even a Little Witch Academia game in the works but still nothing for Sailor Moon. I would love like a new RPG or a platform action game or even a new fighting game but we've got nothing.


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 Post subject: Re: Sailor Moon Pet Peeves
PostPosted: Fri Jul 21, 2017 9:51 am 
Luna Nova
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Neon Genesis wrote:
Because if you take something somebody accidentally left in your room and don't tell anybody that you did, that usually counts as stealing?

But she told the other scouts.


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 Post subject: Re: Sailor Moon Pet Peeves
PostPosted: Fri Jul 21, 2017 10:53 am 
Luna Crescens
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Neon Genesis wrote:
My biggest pet peeve is that we still don't have a modern Sailor Moon video game. We have tons of merchandise, figures, wands, two mobile games, but still no modern console game for Sailor Moon. Anime themed games are a lot more common in the U.S. now than they were in the 90s and there's even a Little Witch Academia game in the works but still nothing for Sailor Moon. I would love like a new RPG or a platform action game or even a new fighting game but we've got nothing.
Sailor Moon's target are nostalgic women, so they produce merchanise that can appeal this demographic. TOEI knows that a Sailor Moon video game would not sell well in Japan.


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 Post subject: Re: Sailor Moon Pet Peeves
PostPosted: Fri Jul 21, 2017 11:00 am 
Aurorae Lunares
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musa wrote:
But she told the other scouts.
The exact dialog from the scene

Quote:
Jupiter: The plan's failed Mars, and pretty soon they'll get the wand!

Mercury: And the crystal!

Mars: No they won't! *pulls out the wand*

Venus: Sailor Mars?!

Mars: It's not what you think! I didn't steal it! She left in my room so I kept it!

Venus: Hey, you know that wasn't right!

Mars: It's not cause I want it!

Jupiter: You sure?


Quote:
Sailor Moon's target are nostalgic women, so they produce merchanise that can appeal this demographic. TOEI knows that a Sailor Moon video game would not sell well in Japan.
Lots of women do play video games and Toei still produces Pretty Cure video games.


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 Post subject: Re: Sailor Moon Pet Peeves
PostPosted: Fri Jul 21, 2017 11:15 am 
Planeta
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Well Italy did get this haha.


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 Post subject: Re: Sailor Moon Pet Peeves
PostPosted: Fri Jul 21, 2017 11:31 am 
Luna Crescens
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Neon Genesis wrote:
musa wrote:
But she told the other scouts.
The exact dialog from the scene

Quote:
Jupiter: The plan's failed Mars, and pretty soon they'll get the wand!

Mercury: And the crystal!

Mars: No they won't! *pulls out the wand*

Venus: Sailor Mars?!

Mars: It's not what you think! I didn't steal it! She left in my room so I kept it!

Venus: Hey, you know that wasn't right!

Mars: It's not cause I want it!

Jupiter: You sure?


Quote:
Sailor Moon's target are nostalgic women, so they produce merchanise that can appeal this demographic. TOEI knows that a Sailor Moon video game would not sell well in Japan.
Lots of women do play video games and Toei still produces Pretty Cure video games.
Pretty Cure's target are children, a demographic that buys everything.


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 Post subject: Re: Sailor Moon Pet Peeves
PostPosted: Fri Jul 21, 2017 11:58 am 
Luna Nova
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Neon Genesis wrote:
musa wrote:
But she told the other scouts.
The exact dialog from the scene

Quote:
Jupiter: The plan's failed Mars, and pretty soon they'll get the wand!

Mercury: And the crystal!

Mars: No they won't! *pulls out the wand*

Venus: Sailor Mars?!

Mars: It's not what you think! I didn't steal it! She left in my room so I kept it!

Venus: Hey, you know that wasn't right!

Mars: It's not cause I want it!

Jupiter: You sure?


I still think it is for safekeeping. Particularly as she said she doesn't want the wand.


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