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 Post subject: Re: Is Naoko butchering her own property? (WITH INTERVIEW)
PostPosted: Thu May 11, 2017 1:13 am 
Systema Solare
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Rika-Chicchi wrote:
Rika-Chicchi wrote:
Locking this thread for the time being to cool things down. Other admins, if not myself, may unlock it in due course when they see fit.

Now unlocked - let's see how it'll go. *fingers crossed*


didn't go too well XD :lol:

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 Post subject: Re: Is Naoko butchering her own property? (WITH INTERVIEW)
PostPosted: Thu May 11, 2017 2:48 am 
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Seira Hazuki wrote:
I'm not discrediting her at all. You made a wrong assertion about the production timeline of Sailor Moon, something manga fans do constantly, and I corrected it. She is obviously named as the original creator of the Sailor Moon brand, but it's important to also realize she is not solely responsible for shaping the entire franchise and acting like she's above criticism because she is the series' creator is ludicrous. In the same way someone can criticize Ikuhara for the direction he took the anime, despite the fact that it's one of the reasons why Sailor Moon franchise is so successful today. It's no different from George Lucas getting a lot of heat from fans because of what he did to Star Wars.

However, I agree that bashing her and calling her greedy is in complete poor judgement. But her being the creator of Sailor Moon does not somehow shield her from criticism. She's not God.

Of course, fans need to vote with their money and if they feel like Naoko or Toei is taking advantage of them, they need to stop buying.


Never did I ever imply that people should "not" criticize Naoko, nor did I never imply that she's some kind of "god", heck even I myself sometimes criticize the poor choices I think she made in her manga. But my point is that as the original creator of SM, Naoko deserves to be given credit and fans should be grateful to her for creating the manga in the first place, SM was born from her OWN ideas and OWN creation afterall, so people should give her credit where it's due. Even though sometimes I do question some of the choices and decisions she made regarding the manga, but at least I am still very grateful to her and I respect her for creating the manga that spawned this franchise, and I give her the credit that she deserves.

I never implied that you discredit Naoko Seira Hazuki either, but I just think that some fans just act so ungrateful, rude and disrespectful towards her as the original creator, they don't seem to give her any credit whatsoever, they seem to act so completely ungrateful to her and disregard and ignore all the very important contributions she has made to the franchise. And not only do they not give her any credit whatsoever and act completely ungrateful towards her, they also insult her and bash her on top of that, and I think that's appalling, and it's those fans who act so completely ungrateful and disrespectful towards her that I am referring to, not you.

People can still criticize Naoko or criticize some of the choices and decisions she made, but my point is that people should also still at least acknowledge her as the original creator of SM and give her credit where it's due, she deserves to be credited and respected and acknowledged as the original creator because SHE was the person who started everything for SM after all, SM was HER own idea, HER own creation, so show some gratitude towards her people! Of course this franchise would not be how it is now without so many people's efforts and contributions, not just Naoko alone. But still, at the end of the day it doesn't change the fact that Naoko was the original creator and that SM was originally HER own idea & creation, so people should at least respect her, acknowledge her and give her the credit that she deserves as the original creator. And like I have mentioned before, however people may feel about the manga is also beside the point, the point is that whether you like the manga or not, at the end of the day either way Naoko is the original creator and she was the one who started everything for SM, so she deserves to be credited and respected and acknowledged for that.
But I just think that some fans act so completely ungrateful and disregarding and disrespectful towards her that they don't seem to give her any credit at all whatsoever and insult her and bash her on top of that, and I think that's absolutely appalling and ridiculous.

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 Post subject: Re: Is Naoko butchering her own property? (WITH INTERVIEW)
PostPosted: Thu May 11, 2017 3:38 am 
Aurorae Lunares
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SailorLinda1 wrote:
Seira Hazuki wrote:
I'm not discrediting her at all. You made a wrong assertion about the production timeline of Sailor Moon, something manga fans do constantly, and I corrected it. She is obviously named as the original creator of the Sailor Moon brand, but it's important to also realize she is not solely responsible for shaping the entire franchise and acting like she's above criticism because she is the series' creator is ludicrous. In the same way someone can criticize Ikuhara for the direction he took the anime, despite the fact that it's one of the reasons why Sailor Moon franchise is so successful today. It's no different from George Lucas getting a lot of heat from fans because of what he did to Star Wars.

However, I agree that bashing her and calling her greedy is in complete poor judgement. But her being the creator of Sailor Moon does not somehow shield her from criticism. She's not God.

Of course, fans need to vote with their money and if they feel like Naoko or Toei is taking advantage of them, they need to stop buying.


Never did I ever imply that people should "not" criticize Naoko, nor did I never imply that she's some kind of "god", heck even I myself sometimes criticize the poor choices I think she made in her manga. But my point is that as the original creator of SM, Naoko deserves to be given credit and fans should be grateful to her for creating the manga in the first place, SM was born from her OWN ideas and OWN creation afterall, so people should give her credit where it's due. Even though sometimes I do question some of the choices and decisions she made regarding the manga, but at least I am still very grateful to her and I respect her for creating the manga that spawned this franchise, and I give her the credit that she deserves.

I never implied that you discredit Naoko Seira Hazuki either, but I just think that some fans just act so ungrateful, rude and disrespectful towards her as the original creator, they don't seem to give her any credit whatsoever, they seem to act so completely ungrateful to her and disregard and ignore all the very important contributions she has made to the franchise. And not only do they not give her any credit whatsoever and act completely ungrateful towards her, they also insult her and bash her on top of that, and I think that's appalling, and it's those fans who act so completely ungrateful and disrespectful towards her that I am referring to, not you.

People can still criticize Naoko or criticize some of the choices and decisions she made, but my point is that people should also still at least acknowledge her as the original creator of SM and give her credit where it's due, she deserves to be credited and respected and acknowledged as the original creator because SHE was the person who started everything for SM after all, SM was HER own idea, HER own creation, so show some gratitude towards her people! Of course this franchise would not be how it is now without so many people's efforts and contributions, not just Naoko alone. But still, at the end of the day it doesn't change the fact that Naoko was the original creator and that SM was originally HER own idea & creation, so people should at least respect her, acknowledge her and give her the credit that she deserves as the original creator. And like I have mentioned before, however people may feel about the manga is also beside the point, the point is that whether you like the manga or not, at the end of the day either way Naoko is the original creator and she was the one who started everything for SM, so she deserves to be credited and respected and acknowledged for that.
But I just think that some fans act so completely ungrateful and disregarding and disrespectful towards her that they don't seem to give her any credit at all whatsoever and insult her and bash her on top of that, and I think that's absolutely appalling and ridiculous.


But where are these ungrateful fans that you keep speaking of? Aside from the obvious troll in the thread who never has anything good to say about the manga or Naoko, most fans here seem to be just fed up and feeling frustrated with the treatment Sailor Moon is getting overseas due to Toei/Naoko. These fans WANT to give their money to the franchise which at the end of day becomes Toei and Naoko's paycheck. That is the opposite of being ungrateful.

And while I think calling Naoko greed is uncalled for, I can see where people's frustration lies when they can't afford a product because of some poor decision making that is disconnected from the realities of their own country (which is exactly why people are questioning Naoko's input with certain aspects of the franchise). Telling them to basically shut up because Sailor Moon is her creation doesn't create a productive discussion and makes it sound like you're trying to censor people's opinions.

And at the end of the day, I don't think Naoko is losing any sleep because a few fans are fed up with the way she's treating the series or that they think she's mean. She'll live, I promise you.


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 Post subject: Re: Is Naoko butchering her own property? (WITH INTERVIEW)
PostPosted: Thu May 11, 2017 3:49 am 
Systema Solare
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keep it civil guys or an admin may have to close this thread for good just saying

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 Post subject: Re: Is Naoko butchering her own property? (WITH INTERVIEW)
PostPosted: Thu May 11, 2017 4:19 am 
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Seira Hazuki wrote:
But where are these ungrateful fans that you keep speaking of? Aside from the obvious troll in the thread who never has anything good to say about the manga or Naoko, most fans here seem to be just fed up and feeling frustrated with the treatment Sailor Moon is getting overseas due to Toei/Naoko. These fans WANT to give their money to the franchise which at the end of day becomes Toei and Naoko's paycheck. That is the opposite of being ungrateful.

And while I think calling Naoko greed is uncalled for, I can see where people's frustration lies when they can't afford a product because of some poor decision making that is disconnected from the realities of their own country (which is exactly why people are questioning Naoko's input with certain aspects of the franchise). Telling them to basically shut up because Sailor Moon is her creation doesn't create a productive discussion and makes it sound like you're trying to censor people's opinions.

And at the end of the day, I don't think Naoko is losing any sleep because a few fans are fed up with the way she's treating the series or that they think she's mean. She'll live, I promise you.


It's one thing to be frustrated about some of the poor choices Naoko has made, and another thing to completely disrespect Naoko as the original creator and disregarding all of Naoko's contributions. And there are some fans here in this forum who have done nothing but complain, bash, criticize and insult Naoko without even expressing even the least bit of gratitude towards her as the original creator, and it's these people I'm referring to. It's understandable to be frustrated by some of the poor choices she's made, but these people also have failed to express any kind of gratefulness towards Naoko or give her any credit as the original creator and for her important contributions to the franchise. All they have been doing is complain and bash and insult Naoko, just look at the many comments posted in this thread, many of them are just filled with complaints and insults towards Naoko, and nothing more, nothing about acknowledging her and crediting her as the original creator, just filled with hateful and ungrateful comments. Only a few comments posted here mention any kind of gratitude towards Naoko for being the original creator. Most of the other comments here are just filled with nasty insults and frustrations over poor choices over licensing problems.

Like I said, people have the right to criticize Naoko or criticize some of her poor choices and decisions, and I'm not trying to "shut them up", all I'm trying to do is to let people understand that Naoko at least deserves to still be given credit and respected as being the original creator of SM. But like I have mentioned before many times, some of the fans here just seems to act so ungrateful towards her, they give her no credit whatsoever, all they do is complain about her and insult her over her poor decisions over licensing issues, they don't mention anything about giving her any kind of credit for being the original creator, just alot of complaining and bashing, and it's appalling for me to see.

People can still criticize her or her poor choices & decisions (sometimes I criticize her poor choices too), but they should at least also acknowledge her and respect her as the original creator and give her credit where it's due.

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 Post subject: Re: Is Naoko butchering her own property? (WITH INTERVIEW)
PostPosted: Thu May 11, 2017 4:32 am 
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SailorLinda1 wrote:
SHE was the person who started everything for SM after all, SM was HER own idea, HER own creation, so show some gratitude towards her people!


I do not mean to be disrespectful, but I feel that you are giving Naoko way too much credit. TOEI approached her when she was a newbie and asked her to create something similar to its fushigi comedy series. That is how she came up with the concept of Sailor V.

TOEI: "hey newbie, wanna create a hit?

Naoko: "yes."

Also, let's not forget these, and heck, even the design of the silver crystal is identical to a very famous candle holder.

Again, I ask you to not view my reply to your message as a confrontation; I just feel, personally, that you are giving her more credit than she deserves.

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 Post subject: Re: Is Naoko butchering her own property? (WITH INTERVIEW)
PostPosted: Thu May 11, 2017 4:39 am 
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But Naoko is still the one who CREATED SM in the first place, whether it was Toei who first approached her or not, SM was still Naoko's OWN idea and her OWN creation. Toei may have approached her first to ask her to create a manga, but Naoko was the one who came up with the ideas, concepts, characters and storylines for the manga, these were her OWN creations & ideas, NOT Toei. Toei may have approached her first, but they did NOT create the characters, or the concepts or storylines for the manga, Naoko did.
Naoko herself may have taken some inspirations from others for some of her characters or designs or ideas etc, and that's fine because many people take inspiration from others, it's very common. But SM was still Naoko's own creation.

It's like if a record label were to approach a musician and ask this musician to write a song for them, would you give credit to the record label for the song or to the musician who actually wrote and created the song? Of course you would credit the musician who actually wrote the song. But the record label should also be credited for distributing the song.
It's a simiar case here with Naoko and Toei, Toei should be credited for expanding the franchise and popularizing SM in Japan and worldwide, but NAOKO is the one who should also be credited for creating SM in the first place.

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 Post subject: Re: Is Naoko butchering her own property? (WITH INTERVIEW)
PostPosted: Thu May 11, 2017 4:41 am 
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again CALM DOWN I think Rika unlocking this thread was a bad idea

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 Post subject: Re: Is Naoko butchering her own property? (WITH INTERVIEW)
PostPosted: Thu May 11, 2017 5:26 am 
Aurorae Lunares
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Let's calm down. The whole "who is responsible for Sailor Moon" question is being discussed in another thread.

Fans can be upset at how their favorite anime is being treated overseas, but Naoko herself is not to blame for all of these problems, and at the end of the day the Japanese version is still available for purchase. We live in an increasingly globalized economy. Just buy the Japanese Blu-rays when they're released starting this summer. I honestly think it's better to support the Japanese releases than to get upset over how distributors are handling your favorite property in your country (wherever you are).

For example, Viz Media has those Sailor Moon Blu-rays of questionable quality. I'm buying them because I'm a loyal fan and I can afford them, but they're awful. Instead of complaining, though, I'm just going to wait for the Japanese Blu-rays (which will undoubtedly be of higher quality). These upcoming Japanese Blu-rays will be the definitive version of Sailor Moon for quite some time regardless of whichever dub you prefer.

kevoso96 wrote:
Yeah, really just your japanese version hard-die fan opinion.


Was this necessary? It sounds incredibly rude of you.

Quote:
My big issues doen't revolve around this, because this is only one of the amount of unreasonable Naoko attitudes regarding worldwide releases, that I have mentioned here.


Why is it unreasonable again?

Quote:
And you don't have a point there, because:

1 - I don't live in Hispanic America, I live in Brazil. So Mexico or other spanish-speaking countries aren't "my country".


1) Brazil is in Latin America.

2) If this is not happening in your country, why do you care so much?

Quote:
2 - Moonies in Latin America are really fond of their dub, which was mostly uncensored, unlike the american ones.


This is true, and it tends to be true for Latin American fans of many other anime titles. I think it's a bit silly, but that's your basic Latino pride right there. Latin Americans (I am including Spanish speakers and Brazilians when I say that) are very proud people, usually to a fault. They probably think their dub is superior to the original, especially to any dub from Spain. (Disclaimer: I myself am of Latino heritage and having experienced this myself, I feel more than qualified to have this opinion.)

Quote:
3 - They aren't enjoying the original songs in japanese. All episodes in all seasons have the translated versions of "Moonlight Densetsu" and "Heart Moving" as openings and endings.


That is very strange and not appropriate, but I doubt this has anything to do with Takeuchi Naoko herself. Do you have any evidence that states she insisted on this being the case? Or do you think this possibly has something to do with distributors not being able to afford licenses? In which case...that's not Takeuchi's fault at all.

Quote:
4 - The 2011-2016 korean redub, the 2011-2012 hebrew dub dubbed most of the songs. So this "standard" stuff you mentioned doesn't apply to classic SM.
[/quote]

I said it's standard and not common. I didn't say it's impossible or that it never happens anymore. Congratulations, you pointed out two new dubs that do this. How many have kept the original songs?

Let's also not forget that Naoko is busy raising a child and dealing with a husband who has health issues so maybe those things are more important than Sailor Moon.

GuerreroLuna wrote:
LOL. You just had to look for the top 30 countries who love anime the most to see that the US is not on that list. So no. The US is no big country for anime.
Two more facts :
- Sales of manga reached $212.6 million within France and Germany alone in 2006.
- by 2008, the U.S. and Canadian manga market generated $175 million in annual sales.
Yes, these are manga figures but they can give you actual numbers about the topic.
There are fewer people in Europe? LOL. We are 500 million. And a the highest GDP per capita in the world, so we can afford buying anime.
The dubs in all the languages are already done so that is no excuse.


There are fewer people in each specific European country and each country requires its own license. The USA has 300+ million but it's all in ONE country and thus only requires ONE license.

I think it's pretty obvious what I was talking about; instead, you chose to interpret it literally.

And what "list" are you talking about? The United States is a huge buyer for anime. According to an article (http://www.animenewsnetwork.com/news/20 ... 41-billion), the 2009 anime market in the USA was over $2 billion. In 2003 it was at 4.8 billion. Can European countries (individual countries) compete with that? China certainly can, but what about France and Germany?

And can you provide anime numbers, please, and not manga numbers? The industries are obviously connected in deep ways but you can't respond to an anime-specific statement with manga numbers. I personally don't know many other people in the USA who still read manga (or if they do, they read scanlations) whereas I know a LOT of people who still buy anime or have a Crunchyroll subscription.

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 Post subject: Re: Is Naoko butchering her own property? (WITH INTERVIEW)
PostPosted: Thu May 11, 2017 5:44 am 
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Naoko:
Attachment:
1otft6.jpg
1otft6.jpg [ 56.79 KiB | Viewed 1153 times ]

Fans: FFFUUUU

:D :D


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 Post subject: Re: Is Naoko butchering her own property? (WITH INTERVIEW)
PostPosted: Thu May 11, 2017 5:48 am 
Aurorae Lunares
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kamen_glider wrote:
Naoko:
(snipping the picture from the quote)
Fans: FFFUUUU

:D :D


I mean, that's basically it. She's going to do whatever she's going to do and fans can be upset about it, but it is so silly to say she's "butchering" her own property just because random international dubs are all kinds of messed up in their own ways (and even in the USA, our latest re-dub has its own issues as well).

This is just another instance of Sailor Moon fans wanting everything to be perfect and being upset when they find out that's not the case. It happened with the ADV boxsets, it happened with the DiC and Cloverway dubs, it happened with the lack of Sailor Stars back in the day, it happened with the manga's new translation...

Sailor Moon fans are never satisfied with what they (we) get. Nothing is ever good enough for us. It's sad.

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 Post subject: Re: Is Naoko butchering her own property? (WITH INTERVIEW)
PostPosted: Thu May 11, 2017 6:08 am 
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I agree, it's like many SM fans are never going to be completely satisfied with anything, they act so nitpicky and demanding and entitled and seem to have very high expectations and high standards. But I guess I shouldn't completely blame them, when you consider how expensive the dvd and blu-ray releases are, so consumers would expect good quality for such an expensive price, I understand that.

Maybe I just have much lower expectations and standards, I'm not the nitpicky type either, so maybe that's why I'm not as frustrated with the problems with some of the foreign releases, I usually just watch SM and other animes online on various online distributors like Crunchyroll and AnimeLab, I usually don't buy the dvds or blu-rays anyway, so it doesn't really affect me. But I can still understand that as a consumer, if you pay a lot of money for a product, you would expect to get a good quality product, hence I can understand all the frustrations that some fans have with the licensing & product issues. I'm just shocked and disappointed to see so much nastiness and vicious insults and criticisms directed at Naoko here. Although it's understandable for some fans to be frustrated, but come on, at least give Naoko some credit for being the original creator of SM. You can criticize her for some of the bad choices & decisions she may have made, but at the very least, people should still show some gratitude towards her and give her credit for being the original creator, instead of constantly bashing her and insulting her.

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 Post subject: Re: Is Naoko butchering her own property? (WITH INTERVIEW)
PostPosted: Thu May 11, 2017 6:17 am 
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John wrote:
For example, Viz Media has those Sailor Moon Blu-rays of questionable quality. I'm buying them because I'm a loyal fan and I can afford them, but they're awful. Instead of complaining, though, I'm just going to wait for the Japanese Blu-rays (which will undoubtedly be of higher quality).


Better than Viz, of course, but definitely NOT higher quality than they should be unless you're referring to the movies which in that case you're probably right.

Quote:
Quote:
3 - They aren't enjoying the original songs in japanese. All episodes in all seasons have the translated versions of "Moonlight Densetsu" and "Heart Moving" as openings and endings.


That is very strange and not appropriate, but I doubt this has anything to do with Takeuchi Naoko herself. Do you have any evidence that states she insisted on this being the case? Or do you think this possibly has something to do with distributors not being able to afford licenses? In which case...that's not Takeuchi's fault at all.


The Mexican company who was supposed to release them specifically mentioned her.

http://www.sailormoonforum.com/viewtopi ... 29#p579829
http://www.sailormoonforum.com/viewtopi ... 64#p579964

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 Post subject: Re: Is Naoko butchering her own property? (WITH INTERVIEW)
PostPosted: Thu May 11, 2017 6:18 am 
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John wrote:

That is very strange and not appropriate, but I doubt this has anything to do with Takeuchi Naoko herself. Do you have any evidence that states she insisted on this being the case? Or do you think this possibly has something to do with distributors not being able to afford licenses? In which case...that's not Takeuchi's fault at all.


It is all documented here, if you can read Spanish.

Quote:
Ayer durante la noche, en la página de Facebook del Talk Box de Sailor Moon se reveló que el tema Princess Moon para el futuro Talk Box Mercury no será doblado al Español (ni ninguno de los temas venideros) por órdenes expresas de la creadora de la franquicia.


Open translation:
Quote:
Last night, on the Talk Box Sailor Moon Facebook page, it was revealed that the song "Princess Moon" for the Talk Box Mercury (nor any of the upcoming songs) will be dubbed to Spanish due to explicit orders of the creator of the franchise.


The statement above came from Towers Entertainment (Mexico).

She also forbade the distributor from Brazil from dubbing the S songs into Portuguese, meaning that if you are watching the Portuguese dub of the S season, you will hear "Heart Moving" by the time that the episode ends and the credits are rolling.

Vilhelm also discussed the issue here.

I follow a lot of Portuguese and Spanish blogs and I can assure you that Sailor Moon fans in Latin America are very angry. Brazilian fans, particularly, seem to be the angriest ones. The Brazilian fans wanted a boxset with all the seasons and instead they only got a single volume of the S season that contained only 3 episodes. Mexico got all the seasons, but fans seemed to complain about the price of the DVDs (it was way overpriced). They blame Naoko. It is her property. PNP. Princess Naoko Planning. You are not happy with the VIZ release? Well... it could be a lot worse.

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 Post subject: Re: Is Naoko butchering her own property? (WITH INTERVIEW)
PostPosted: Thu May 11, 2017 6:25 am 
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I just think perhaps fans may have over-estimated her power and influence a bit, does she really have so much power and influence and say over every little detail about the licensing? Many people seem to complain about the poor or inferior quality of some of the foreign releases, are you guys sure that Naoko is really responsible for that? Or was it really Toei? Even though Naoko does seem to hold the ultimate power of veto as the original creator, but being the production company that is responsible for creating & producing the actual anime (the version that's actually being licensed, bought & distributed), surely Toei would have a lot of influence and say over the licensing too, the anime versions are Toei's products after all (even though Naoko is the original creator of SM).

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 Post subject: Re: Is Naoko butchering her own property? (WITH INTERVIEW)
PostPosted: Thu May 11, 2017 6:34 am 
Aurorae Lunares
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NJ_ wrote:
John wrote:
For example, Viz Media has those Sailor Moon Blu-rays of questionable quality. I'm buying them because I'm a loyal fan and I can afford them, but they're awful. Instead of complaining, though, I'm just going to wait for the Japanese Blu-rays (which will undoubtedly be of higher quality).


Better than Viz, of course, but definitely NOT higher quality than they should be unless you're referring to the movies which in that case you're probably right.

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3 - They aren't enjoying the original songs in japanese. All episodes in all seasons have the translated versions of "Moonlight Densetsu" and "Heart Moving" as openings and endings.


That is very strange and not appropriate, but I doubt this has anything to do with Takeuchi Naoko herself. Do you have any evidence that states she insisted on this being the case? Or do you think this possibly has something to do with distributors not being able to afford licenses? In which case...that's not Takeuchi's fault at all.


The Mexican company who was supposed to release them specifically mentioned her.

http://www.sailormoonforum.com/viewtopi ... 29#p579829
http://www.sailormoonforum.com/viewtopi ... 64#p579964


Well, we'll see what the Japanese Blu-rays look like when we get them. Toei actually does a pretty decent job with their anime Blu-rays, believe it or not (Digimon Adventure was a digital anime but before HD was a thing, but its Blu-ray upscale actually looks fantastic -- and I mean the Blu-ray upscale, not the awful HD version they briefly aired).

You can't say what the Blu-ray quality will look like based on aired HD versions, I've seen first-hand that there are huge differences.

As for the Mexican company and those links you provided...I'm confused. I'm seeing that Takeuchi did not want the songs to be dubbed at the last minute, but this other user is saying that the songs ARE dubbed. In addition, this user was saying that those are the ONLY OPs/EDs for the entire dub itself, and the links you provided don't seem to mention that. =/

But in my defense it's way too early in the morning (past 2 AM!) and I'm exhausted, so maybe I just didn't see it. My bad if I missed it.

At any rate, the songs shouldn't be dubbed in the first place, so it's hard for me to empathize with this issue -- but I suppose I feel bad for people who want things a certain way.

Clow, I just saw your response and I'm even more confused: "Last night, on the Talk Box Sailor Moon Facebook page, it was revealed that the song "Princess Moon" for the Talk Box Mercury (nor any of the upcoming songs) will be dubbed to Spanish due to explicit orders of the creator of the franchise." -- Was the song dubbed or was it not dubbed? This says it WILL BE DUBBED INTO SPANISH, but then it says "nor any of the upcoming songs" which leads me to believe there's a typo and that they SHOULD NOT be dubbed...

So what's the deal? Were they dubbed or not? And if they weren't, why is this other user telling me they were? Or am I just reading it wrong because of a lack of sleep? lol...

In addition to that: "She also forbade the distributor from Brazil from dubbing the S songs into Portuguese, meaning that if you are watching the Portuguese dub of the S season, you will hear "Heart Moving" by the time that the episode ends and the credits are rolling." -- In that case, why did the Portuguese distributors choose to play Heart Moving? Why didn't they just play the S songs in Japanese? They bought the rights to the episodes but they only wanted to dub the songs and they didn't want to air the Japanese songs? That sounds like a problem the Portuguese distributors created...they could have just used the Japanese songs, right?

A non-Japanese DVD containing 3 episodes is crazy in this day and age (no matter what Aniplex says with their own releases haha), but...why did they only get the S season? I *highly doubt* Takeuchi had any say on HOW they distributed the releases, especially if other countries got boxsets but not Brazil. It doesn't make sense for them to single them out, so to me it seems more like a decision the Brazilian distributors made.

And yes, the DVDs/Blu-rays are all expensive. Anime is usually very expensive, Sailor Moon even moreso because of its status. I buy Japanese Blu-rays. I know first-hand how expensive anime is. But that's part of it. Fans can get angry about it, but if you're angry about something that costs a lot of money, the best thing to do is save up or get a better (or second) job.

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 Post subject: Re: Is Naoko butchering her own property? (WITH INTERVIEW)
PostPosted: Thu May 11, 2017 6:55 am 
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John wrote:

Clow, I just saw your response and I'm even more confused: "Last night, on the Talk Box Sailor Moon Facebook page, it was revealed that the song "Princess Moon" for the Talk Box Mercury (nor any of the upcoming songs) will be dubbed to Spanish due to explicit orders of the creator of the franchise." -- Was the song dubbed or was it not dubbed? This says it WILL BE DUBBED INTO SPANISH, but then it says "nor any of the upcoming songs" which leads me to believe there's a typo and that they SHOULD NOT be dubbed...


"Princess Moon" was dubbed into Spanish, but Naoko forbade the Mexican distributor of using the song. Thus, the default ending song for all seasons is "Heart Moving." Someone kindly correct me if I am wrong.

John wrote:
A non-Japanese DVD containing 3 episodes is crazy in this day and age (no matter what Aniplex says with their own releases haha), but...why did they only get the S season?


There was only one overpriced DVD volume containing 3 episodes, yes.

The "S" season was discontinued in Brazil because the first volume of the DVD flopped.

Nobody knows why the distributor was unable to secure the rights of the first season.

SailorLinda1 wrote:
I just think perhaps fans may have over-estimated her power and influence a bit, does she really have so much power and influence and say over every little detail about the licensing?


The distributors say that she does. The guy from Towers Entertainment (Mexico) said that she forbade the dubbing of the songs. The distributor from Brazil implied similar things. Thus, fans in South and Central America are angry.

In any event, Sailor Moon is her property, and therefore she has the power to do whatever she wants with it.

Don't like Naoko's choices? Boycott the franchise --it is what many people I know who live abroad have been doing. Go support her husband instead by buying the "Yu Yu Hakusho" and "Hunter x Hunter" DVD's. Each DVD costs $3.99 USD in Brazil, according to the research I have just done. :D

Anyhow, time for me to go to bed. I have to be up at 7 a.m. tomorrow. Sorry for any typos. I am tired. Work tomorrow... :cookie:

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 Post subject: Re: Is Naoko butchering her own property? (WITH INTERVIEW)
PostPosted: Thu May 11, 2017 7:04 am 
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I knew that as the original creator, SM is essentially Naoko's property, so I knew she would hold a lot of power & influence and control over many if not all aspects of the franchise.
I just think that since Toei is the production company that made the anime versions that are actually being licensed, sold and distributed overseas, Toei would surely also still hold quite a lot of influence and control too. I just don't think Naoko is the only person in control while everyone else are just sitting ducks obeying her every command, surely Toei would still have some control & say and influence too when it comes to the anime and merchandising for SM?

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 Post subject: Re: Is Naoko butchering her own property? (WITH INTERVIEW)
PostPosted: Thu May 11, 2017 11:32 am 
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I think Toei will do better with Sailor Moon than Naoko due to her letting almost no one touch her property.


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 Post subject: Re: Is Naoko butchering her own property? (WITH INTERVIEW)
PostPosted: Thu May 11, 2017 12:15 pm 
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Clow wrote:

I do not mean to be disrespectful, but I feel that you are giving Naoko way too much credit. TOEI approached her when she was a newbie and asked her to create something similar to its fushigi comedy series. That is how she came up with the concept of Sailor V.

TOEI: "hey newbie, wanna create a hit?

Naoko: "yes."


Is there a source for this or is this just speculation, because based on all the interviews I've read, Naoko (with Osabu seemingly backing her up) indicates she came up with the idea for Sailor V first, before there was any involvement from Toei.

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 Post subject: Re: Is Naoko butchering her own property? (WITH INTERVIEW)
PostPosted: Thu May 11, 2017 12:32 pm 
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MementoNepenthe wrote:

Is there a source for this or is this just speculation, because based on all the interviews I've read, Naoko (with Osabu seemingly backing her up) indicates she came up with the idea for Sailor V first, before there was any involvement from Toei.


Japanese Wikipedia page of Bishoujo Kamen Poitrine:


Quote:
漫画家の武内直子は、代表作『美少女戦士セーラームーン』を連載する上でこの作品に影響を受けたことを語っている[11][2]。


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Cartoonist Naoko Takeuchi talks about being influenced by this work while serializing the masterpiece "Sailor Moon," a pretty soldier [11] [2].

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 Post subject: Re: Is Naoko butchering her own property? (WITH INTERVIEW)
PostPosted: Thu May 11, 2017 12:45 pm 
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SailorLinda1 wrote:
I usually don't buy the dvds or blu-rays anyway, so it doesn't really affect me.


So then, do you have any real room to criticize the way fans react to some of the botched releases worldwide? The people who are buying these expensive products are literally ensuring the health and survival of the Sailor Moon franchise. Naoko can decide to pull the plug on the 25th anniversary, but at the end of the day it's the consumers that decide whether or not the 25 Anniversary continues.

Also, if it doesn't affect you, why are you getting so upset about how ungrateful Sailor Moon fans are towards Naoko? Are you Naoko? :P

Edit:

Quote:
Don't like Naoko's choices? Boycott the franchise --it is what many people I know who live abroad have been doing. Go support her husband instead by buying the "Yu Yu Hakusho" and "Hunter x Hunter" DVD's. Each DVD costs $3.99 USD in Brazil, according to the research I have just done. :D


Yes, agreed. People need to seriously vote with their money. Buying products reluctantly to just show support only just enables their behavior.

Like, I know the Anime industry is a few steps behind the rest of the world, but don't they realize how many fans are turning to piracy because of stuff like this...


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 Post subject: Re: Is Naoko butchering her own property? (WITH INTERVIEW)
PostPosted: Thu May 11, 2017 1:01 pm 
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Seira Hazuki wrote:
So then, do you have any real room to criticize the way fans react to some of the botched releases worldwide? The people who are buying these expensive products are literally ensuring the health and survival of the Sailor Moon franchise. Naoko can decide to pull the plug on the 25th anniversary, but at the end of the day it's the consumers that decide whether or not the 25 Anniversary continues.

Also, if it doesn't affect you, why are you getting so upset about how ungrateful Sailor Moon fans are towards Naoko? Are you Naoko? :P


Did you overlook this part of my comment?

Note: Read the highlighted bold parts:

SailorLinda1 wrote:
Maybe I just have much lower expectations and standards, I'm not the nitpicky type either, so maybe that's why I'm not as frustrated with the problems with some of the foreign releases, I usually just watch SM and other animes online on various online distributors like Crunchyroll and AnimeLab, I usually don't buy the dvds or blu-rays anyway, so it doesn't really affect me. But I can still understand that as a consumer, if you pay a lot of money for a product, you would expect to get a good quality product, hence I can understand all the frustrations that some fans have with the licensing & product issues. I'm just shocked and disappointed to see so much nastiness and vicious insults and criticisms directed at Naoko here. Although it's understandable for some fans to be frustrated, but come on, at least give Naoko some credit for being the original creator of SM. You can criticize her for some of the bad choices & decisions she may have made, but at the very least, people should still show some gratitude towards her and give her credit for being the original creator, instead of constantly bashing her and insulting her.


And I still have the right to speak up when I feel some fans are behaving unreasonable, all the licensing stuff may not affect me personally since I usually don't buy the dvds or blu-rays, but I am still a consumer at the end of the day, everyone is a consumer, so I can understand why other fans would be frustrated. But I'm still entitled to voice my opinions about how other fans are behaving, just because I don't buy the dvds & blu-rays does not mean I can't voice my opinion.

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 Post subject: Re: Is Naoko butchering her own property? (WITH INTERVIEW)
PostPosted: Thu May 11, 2017 1:08 pm 
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Yes, and you're still telling people how they should act or feel DESPITE not even buying the products. Regardless if you're acknowledging the other side.

The reason these discussions get so heated is because people try to insert themselves and tell people should express themselves or how they should act. Like if things get out of hand and people call Naoko the b word or something outrageous, the mods should be stepping in and deleting posts.

The fandom would be a lot more peaceful if people stopped trying to police other opinions.


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 Post subject: Re: Is Naoko butchering her own property? (WITH INTERVIEW)
PostPosted: Thu May 11, 2017 1:21 pm 
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So are you trying to say that those people who disagree with these fans' behavior should just shut up and mind our own business then? So just because I don't usually buy the dvds & blu-rays, I should just shut up, mind my own business and not have the right to voice my opinions about how other people are behaving? Aren't you trying to do the same thing that you accuse me of doing? You accuse me of trying to "police" other opinions, and yet here you are basically telling me to shut up and mind my own business, you're doing exactly the same thing and basically telling me what you think I should do or behave.

It's not that other people are trying to "police" other opinions, people simply have different opinions, that's why there will always be arguments and disagreements, it's inevitable. But everyone should have the right to voice their opinions, others have the right to voice their opinions about Naoko, and I also have the right to voice my opinions about how other people behave.

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 Post subject: Re: Is Naoko butchering her own property? (WITH INTERVIEW)
PostPosted: Thu May 11, 2017 1:31 pm 
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Where did I say you should shut up and mind your own business? Please quote me those exact words.

All I am saying is that fans have every right to feel how they feel about Naoko and what she's doing to the brand. Why are you getting so upset that people feel ungrateful towards Naoko? Are you Naoko's PR person? No even insulted her in the first page of this thread before you inserted yourself and said this:

SailorLinda1 wrote:
Jeez I'm shocked with all this whining and complaining.

Without Naoko Takeuchi, SM would not even exist in the first place, so at least be grateful to her for creating this wonderful story and world of SM.


How is telling people to stop whining and complaining when they have legitimate complaints about the way the series is handled helpful to any kind of discussion aside from shutting people's opinions down? Please tell me.


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 Post subject: Re: Is Naoko butchering her own property? (WITH INTERVIEW)
PostPosted: Thu May 11, 2017 1:38 pm 
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Even though you never exactly outright told me to shut up and mind my own business, but the way you phrased your comment certainly gave me the impression that you think I should just be quiet and leave this matter alone and mind my own business.

I never tried to "dictate" how other people should feel or behave, all along I've merely just been voicing my own opinions about how some fans here have been behaving, I just think some fans are being so vicious and much too harsh towards Naoko, most comments in this thread are just filled with so much hate and negativity towards her and it's disappointing for me to see all this viciousness towards her. And I just don't think she deserves all of this hate, I do think that some of the blame and frustration from fans are warranted. But all the hate and viciousness is just so overwhelming I can't help but feel the need to speak up and voice my opinion about it. Which I do have the right to do.

And here you are, trying to shut down my opinions, right? Since I obviously disagree with how viciously negative some fans have been behaving here, I should just keep my mouth shut and go away, right?

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 Post subject: Re: Is Naoko butchering her own property? (WITH INTERVIEW)
PostPosted: Thu May 11, 2017 1:43 pm 
Aurorae Lunares
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Where is this hate though? This is my problem with so many fans of Sailor Moon. Anytime anyone has a legitimate criticism people label them as haters, or label their criticism as hate. It's like when people who had legitimate criticism of Crystal were labelled blind haters who weren't grateful.

My problem is y'all are acting like people called Naoko a "blood sucking vampire goat" or something. Yes. Saying Naoko is damaging her property is hyperbolic, but it's condemning her actions and not insulting her as a person. Of course, these may not even be Naoko's decisions, but then people should be wondering why Toei AND its licencors are using her as a scapegoat instead of blaming the fans who keeping hearing her name whenever anything goes wrong.


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 Post subject: Re: Is Naoko butchering her own property? (WITH INTERVIEW)
PostPosted: Thu May 11, 2017 1:44 pm 
Solaris Luna
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Clow wrote:
MementoNepenthe wrote:

Is there a source for this or is this just speculation, because based on all the interviews I've read, Naoko (with Osabu seemingly backing her up) indicates she came up with the idea for Sailor V first, before there was any involvement from Toei.


Japanese Wikipedia page of Bishoujo Kamen Poitrine:


Quote:
漫画家の武内直子は、代表作『美少女戦士セーラームーン』を連載する上でこの作品に影響を受けたことを語っている[11][2]。


Quote:
Cartoonist Naoko Takeuchi talks about being influenced by this work while serializing the masterpiece "Sailor Moon," a pretty soldier [11] [2].


I know she was influenced by Poitrine; I wasn't talking about that. I was referring to your assertion that Toei approached Naoko first to create a manga they could make into a senta/tokusatsu-type anime, rather than Naoko being the one to have the idea to do a Sailor V-type manga one-shot with Toei getting involved later on.

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 Post subject: Re: Is Naoko butchering her own property? (WITH INTERVIEW)
PostPosted: Thu May 11, 2017 1:55 pm 
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Seira Hazuki wrote:
Where is this hate though? This is my problem with so many fans of Sailor Moon. Anytime anyone has a legitimate criticism people label them as haters, or label their criticism as hate. It's like when people who had legitimate criticism of Crystal were labelled blind haters who weren't grateful.

My problem is y'all are acting like people called Naoko a "blood sucking vampire goat" or something. Yes. Saying Naoko is damaging her property is hyperbolic, but it's condemning her actions and not insulting her as a person. Of course, these may not even be Naoko's decisions, but then people should be wondering why Toei AND its licencors are using her as a scapegoat instead of blaming the fans who keeping hearing her name whenever anything goes wrong.


Oh really? I remember someone posted a comment here basically insulting and judging Naoko as a person even though none of us here know her personally, I think it's posted in one of the earlier pages. There are also many other comments posted here that basically insulted her and judged her as a person, and not just criticizing her poor choices & decisions. It's one thing to criticize someone's decisions and choices when there's justification, and another thing to judge and insult someone as a person even though you don't even know that person personally. And there just seems to be quite a lot of judging Naoko as a person in this thread, and not just criticizing her bad decisions over licensing issues. If you read through all the comments posted here, some of the comments are very judgmental about Naoko as a person, which these people can't possibly have any justification on since as I said, none of us here really know Naoko personally, so none of us here really know what kind of person she actually is in real-life. And that's why I think some of the vicious comments towards her posted here are too much and I just had to speak up and voice my opinions about it.

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