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 Post subject: Re: Unused Concepts You Wish Were Used
PostPosted: Sat Oct 07, 2017 6:21 pm 
Columnae Creationis
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And regarding literal dreams, many animal species can also dream while asleep. :)

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 Post subject: Re: Unused Concepts You Wish Were Used
PostPosted: Sun Oct 08, 2017 1:30 am 
Stella
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MementoNepenthe wrote:
TS Sailor Cronus wrote:
Quote:
instead of doing the whole "We're animals so we can't have dreams; make us humans so we can have dreams" thing


does this not somehow count as a dream? or do they mean falling-asleep-and-floating-in-an-ice-cream-sundae-boat-through-the-clouds-and-drinking-pine-trees-because-you-wanna-sleep-with-your-mom-according-to-frued dreams? i'm not actually familiar with fourth season, which is why i ask. come to think of it, i can't remember much about that arc in the manga, either... >_>;;


It's unclear if they used "dream" to refer to ambitions, sleep-induced subconscious shenanigans, or both, and by "unclear" I mean they're inconsistent about it / did not think at all critically about the story they were writing, because clearly Fish Eye wanting Mamoru to love him and wanting to have dreams meant Fish Eye WAS ALREADY HAVING DREAMS (in the ambitions/desires sense), which would suggest the Amazon Trio were incapable of having literal dreams, but with every single victim of the day that season, when they talked about their "dreams" they always spoke about their goals/desires, not their literal "I just had the wildest dream last night" dreams. So....yeah. Just a dumb plot point all around.

Well if I had a way of explaining it maybe they did have dreams and desires but were incapable of having literal dreams and maybe since they didn't have dream mirrors their real dreams would be forever out of their reach. That is my best guess.

Rika-Chicchi wrote:
And regarding literal dreams, many animal species can also dream while asleep. :)

That they do so the writers were wrong on this note.

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 Post subject: Re: Unused Concepts You Wish Were Used
PostPosted: Tue Oct 17, 2017 10:53 pm 
Solaris Luna
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Some unused concepts from the Materials Collection that I would have enjoyed seeing:

- Mercury's uniform having long sleeves
- The Inners' eye colors changing after transforming
- Mars using her waist pendant to shoot fire/lasers
- Jupiter's gloves and sleeves/shoulder pads having a light green cast
- Venus's gloves and sleeves/shoulder pads having a light orange cast
- Venus's ring
- Unazuki's being a TA Girls Academy high school student. (This is probably technically a 'used' concept, but I don't remember her ever appearing in her uniform in the manga or original anime, and I also don't remember her and Rei or Kotono ever interacting.)

(As I go through the MC to write this post, I can't help but laugh at the fact Asanuma's mom evidently drives a Porshe. Is his mom secretly Naoko? lololol)

- It would have been nice to see Petz manipulate animals and plants. Instead she just spreads some sort of flu via storm clouds or something? The manga never even shows Petz actually implementing whatever her plan was.
- Haruka and Michiru as Takarazuka Revue actresses
- Saturn's ring and staff
- The Witches 5 using staffs that match their image colors, rather than all being generically gold.
- Sailor Star Fighter's extra attacks (Star Fighter Kick, Star Fighter Punch, Star Fighter Uppercut, Star Fighter Attack)
- Sailor Star Maker's extra attacks (Star Maker Relaxation, Star Maker Strike (apparently a bit of a pervy maneuver), Star Maker Music Box.
- Sailor Star Healer's extra attacks (Star Healer Beam, Star Healer Tornado, Star Healer Worm)

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 Post subject: Re: Unused Concepts You Wish Were Used
PostPosted: Tue Oct 17, 2017 11:31 pm 
Solaris Luna
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MementoNepenthe wrote:
Some unused concepts from the Materials Collection that I would have enjoyed seeing:

- Mercury's uniform having long sleeves
- The Inners' eye colors changing after transforming
- Mars using her waist pendant to shoot fire/lasers
- Jupiter's gloves and sleeves/shoulder pads having a light green cast
- Venus's gloves and sleeves/shoulder pads having a light orange cast
- Venus's ring
- Unazuki's being a TA Girls Academy high school student. (This is probably technically a 'used' concept, but I don't remember her ever appearing in her uniform in the manga or original anime, and I also don't remember her and Rei or Kotono ever interacting.)

(As I go through the MC to write this post, I can't help but laugh at the fact Asanuma's mom evidently drives a Porshe. Is his mom secretly Naoko? lololol)

- It would have been nice to see Petz manipulate animals and plants. Instead she just spreads some sort of flu via storm clouds or something? The manga never even shows Petz actually implementing whatever her plan was.
- Haruka and Michiru as Takarazuka Revue actresses
- Saturn's ring and staff
- The Witches 5 using staffs that match their image colors, rather than all being generically gold.
- Sailor Star Fighter's extra attacks (Star Fighter Kick, Star Fighter Punch, Star Fighter Uppercut, Star Fighter Attack)
- Sailor Star Maker's extra attacks (Star Maker Relaxation, Star Maker Strike (apparently a bit of a pervy maneuver), Star Maker Music Box.
- Sailor Star Healer's extra attacks (Star Healer Beam, Star Healer Tornado, Star Healer Worm)


I think these are all great ideas, MementoNepenthe!

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 Post subject: Re: Unused Concepts You Wish Were Used
PostPosted: Sat Oct 21, 2017 1:58 am 
Stella
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MementoNepenthe I think Unazuki did appear in her TA girls school uniform in the 90s anime when she was on Mamoru's bike when he was giving her a ride.

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 Post subject: Re: Unused Concepts You Wish Were Used
PostPosted: Sat Oct 21, 2017 12:29 pm 
Solaris Luna
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You're right! Forgot about that. Glad it wasn't *completely* unused but they still could have/should have done more with it.

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 Post subject: Re: Unused Concepts You Wish Were Used
PostPosted: Mon Nov 13, 2017 1:11 am 
Luna
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Mako being a smoker and the leader of a girl gang

The series director’s orignal concept for the SuperS movie instead of the rehash of the season in movie form


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 Post subject: Re: Unused Concepts You Wish Were Used
PostPosted: Mon Nov 13, 2017 1:55 am 
Stella
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LifeGaveMeLemons wrote:
Mako being a smoker and the leader of a girl gang

The series director’s orignal concept for the SuperS movie instead of the rehash of the season in movie form

Really all of the movies were kind of rehashes of the season's they were named after. The R movie was a rehash of the Makaiju arc, The S movie was a rehash of S and the SuperS movie was a rehash of SuperS. I always wondered if we ever got a Classic and a Sailor Stars movie how they would have been and the new villains that would be dealt with.

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 Post subject: Re: Unused Concepts You Wish Were Used
PostPosted: Mon Nov 13, 2017 1:55 am 
Luna
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The S movie wasn’t a rehash of the S series in the slightest.

The R movie definitely rehashed the makai tree arc and the SuperS movie definitely rehashed the SuperS series though


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 Post subject: Re: Unused Concepts You Wish Were Used
PostPosted: Mon Nov 13, 2017 12:28 pm 
Luna Crescens
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I do kinda like the idea of cyborg Ami, enough to wonder what it would've been like. I think her visor and her computer, and the way she instantly analyzes the Sailor V game in the manga, are the remnants of that idea.

Cyborg Hotaru...? This intrigues me. I must investigate further.

Mars' fire-shooting-belt sounds kind of amazing. It would look very, um, evocative. XD

I really like Mercury's sleeves.

I wonder what Star Maker Music Box would've entailed? It really sounds neat.

Quote:
That pre-Usagi series concept page

I would absolutely watch/read that. I love Usagi and Mamoru (and Luna), but Sailor Moon without them is fascinating to consider too, and it gives Minako (and Artemis? Is that him in the bottom-right?) a much more central role. Hard-edged Makoto is intriguing too.

One thing that caught my eye was that Sailor Heavy Metal Papillon (yes, I know about this character before finishing the manga properly... I really ought to do that) was supposed to be a mother, but that's never mentioned except in the Materials Collection (which I read). In my mind, her daughter is Sailor Chibi Metal Caterpillar.

Speaking of Heavy Metal Papillon, she would've been nice to see in the anime. It's pure headcanon, but I like to think she existed offscreen, but refused to join Galaxia and had her star seed taken, leading to the submission of her four peers(/guardians? "Heavy Metal" sounds sorta leader-y).

As far as continuity-specific concepts, I will forever wish the 90s anime had fully explained/included the "Endymion's Guardians" concept, and perhaps incorporated them into the ending somehow. At least it left room for it to be interpreted, since episode 44 kind of makes it seem like they were from the same kingdom.

(Maybe having their fallen spirits apologize and pass the torch of defending Earth to the Sailor Senshi after the killed by the DD girls, like some kind of "Perhaps you can succeed where we failed" kinda thing, giving them just enough energy to come back as ghosts and help Usagi use the Silver Crystal and enabling the Sailor Senshi to come back to life afterwards? And then Mamoru keeps the Kurozuishou to get advice from their ghosts afterwards, and lets Naru come over to visit it to talk to Nephrite's ghost; or you could have a more straightforward happy ending where they come back and become regular people too, so now there's just a real Masato Sanjoin running around, etc.)

-- Regarding the Amazon Trio:

I will admit it wasn't well explained or developed (and I've ranted about the pacing before), but my impression was, while Luna and Artemis are animals of human-level intellect who lived since the days of Silver Millenium, the trio are literally some animals from a jungle somewhere who got enchanted- perhaps quite recently because animal lifespans are quite short, potentially making these some of the youngest characters in the story- and became sort of like under-educated, half-baked golems. Like Pinnochio, they're extremely new at life.

They tried to impersonate grownups, tried to earn the favor of everyone around them by playing off what they could see in the most shallow ways, they had sexual urges, but they didn't really understand life much at all basically. That's why they're so dumb and flakey in so many ways! They've barely had any time to learn about anything, and they heard it all from the lemures or in a bar.

Essentially, they didn't understand dreams, or develop or believe in their own beyond shallow impulses. It's the ability to understand dreams, and believe in their own, that they're really getting. So yes, a lot like the Wizard of Oz thing.

Or that's how I see it, anyway. SuperS had a lot of "Kids who look like adults and adults who look like kids" themes going on, on every level, probably meant to emphasize the concept that maturity is a matter of comprehension and responsibility, not age.

That said, they totally should've "gotten" the dreams listed in the Materials Collection during their final episode. If only they'd had 20 episodes to set up their character arc and conclusion, perhaps they could've found time for such things... cough cough cough. ;)

Quote:
Anyway, as to the point of this post, maybe the Trio should have showed up again acting out their dreams. Helios took them to Elysion and their story just stopped. In the final episode of SuperS, when the Circus was defeated they should have returned to earth and pursued their dreams.

YES, this! Very very this. That would've been great, having them come back to help out at the end. I thought that was weird, because their last appearance seems to build up to it with the part where Pegasus takes them to the forest and tells them it will no longer be dark one day, but then that's never mentioned again. (Heck, DID Elysion even get fixed up by the events of SuperS/Stars...? It's not like they showed the Dark Kingdom getting healed either, so if all this weird earth stuff is related...)

--- Regarding rehashes:

I have to say, the R Movie is less of a rehash of the Makaiju arc than Star Wars Episode VII is a rehash of Star Wars Episode IV as people always like to complain, and to them I say: What element of episode IV does Finn represent? There's so many things, like the final battle of the movie, the difference in Ray's reasons for being involved versus Luke's desire for adventure and knowledge, and so on, that it's really not the same story at all if you stop to think. Related, sure, but it has so many different takes on everything.

What I mean by that is that it's got clearly related themes (and I'm pretty sure those aliens are connected somehow), but the characterization is a whole different bag and there's a very different conclusion. It's not exactly a rehash if it's taking an idea and running in a different direction with it while adding major new elements. To call that a rehash is almost like calling the '90s Anime a "rehash" of the manga.

The S movie... I don't see much in common with S besides the inclusion of Haruka and Michiru, honestly, and even then they didn't stop to disagree with the inners at all as far as I remember, which is practically bordering on out of character for them XD

The SuperS movie... I think Perle is a bit of a Helios expy, but he's a fairly different character, and nothing else really feels related.

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