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If there was a new Sailor Moon anime, who would you rather have full creative control over it?
Poll ended at Mon Oct 09, 2017 6:23 am
Naoko Takeuchi 41%  41%  [ 15 ]
Kunihiko Ikuhara 58%  58%  [ 21 ]
Total votes : 36
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 Post subject: Poll: Takeuchi or Ikuhara
PostPosted: Mon Oct 02, 2017 6:23 am 
Planeta
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Naoko Takeuchi or Kunihiko Ikuhara?

Poll closes in 7 days.

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 Post subject: Re: Poll: Takeuchi or Ikuhara
PostPosted: Mon Oct 02, 2017 7:07 am 
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Is TOEI's cheapness involved?

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 Post subject: Re: Poll: Takeuchi or Ikuhara
PostPosted: Mon Oct 02, 2017 7:29 am 
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Ikuhara I tend to think that he is a better story teller and with him and the helm I think the series would have a more mature and consistent tone similar to Revolutionary Girl Utena. Plus I could see him adding more male characters even more male Senshi like Tuxedo Mask and definitely including more LGBT relationships. I mean the 90s anime added way more LGBT characters then the manga did. In the manga the only LGBT characters were Sailor Uranus and Sailor Neptune who were a couple and Sailor Star Fighter with her crush on Kakyuu and Usagi. There were pretty much no gay male characters in the manga.

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 Post subject: Re: Poll: Takeuchi or Ikuhara
PostPosted: Mon Oct 02, 2017 8:23 am 
Aurorae Lunares
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Ung neither... I love Naoko for creating Sailor Moon but after eight episodes of crystal I'd be happy to see it in the hands of the old men she professes to hate. Ikuhara is too abstract/artsy at best and too lazy at worst.

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 Post subject: Re: Poll: Takeuchi or Ikuhara
PostPosted: Mon Oct 02, 2017 11:38 am 
Solaris Luna
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Naoko. She was pretty involved in PGSM which is still the best incarnation of the series *in my opinion. (Really, I'd just like the team that did PGSM to be in charge of the next adaptation. Or myself.)

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Last edited by MementoNepenthe on Mon Oct 02, 2017 4:17 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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 Post subject: Re: Poll: Takeuchi or Ikuhara
PostPosted: Mon Oct 02, 2017 1:03 pm 
Planeta
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MementoNepenthe wrote:
Naoko. She was pretty involved in PGSM which is still the best incarnation of the series.


I think you are cool and knowledgeable, but I wish you would state that PGSM is the best incarnation of the series according to your own opinion. :cool:

Many PGSM fans I encounter say that PGSM is the best version of the series and they sound so authoritative. :grey: I don't think PGSM is the best version or incarnation of the series, personally. :dead: :sick:

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 Post subject: Re: Poll: Takeuchi or Ikuhara
PostPosted: Mon Oct 02, 2017 4:17 pm 
Solaris Luna
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Sorry! Didn't mean to come across as authoritative~. Edited my original comment. :)

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 Post subject: Re: Poll: Takeuchi or Ikuhara
PostPosted: Mon Oct 02, 2017 4:57 pm 
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MementoNepenthe wrote:
Sorry! Didn't mean to come across as authoritative~. Edited my original comment. :)


It is cool. ^_^

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 Post subject: Re: Poll: Takeuchi or Ikuhara
PostPosted: Mon Oct 02, 2017 5:21 pm 
Stella Nova
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i like them both equally,but if i have to vote for one person i'd vote for naoko because she created sm and it's a sm forum :orly:

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 Post subject: Re: Poll: Takeuchi or Ikuhara
PostPosted: Mon Oct 02, 2017 5:51 pm 
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Ikuhara gets my vote. He knows how to use humor (for example, episode 21, the Sailor V anime episode) and does not shy away from more adult themes (for example, episode 46). I think Ikuhara directed the best episodes of the first season of "Sailor Moon" and he was also the series director of my favorite "Sailor Moon" season, "S." He also directed my favorite "Sailor Moon" movie, "The Promise of the Rose."

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 Post subject: Re: Poll: Takeuchi or Ikuhara
PostPosted: Mon Oct 02, 2017 7:17 pm 
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Kunihiko Ikuhara hands down he and I see eye to eye on sm

and with some other studio not toei

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 Post subject: Re: Poll: Takeuchi or Ikuhara
PostPosted: Mon Oct 02, 2017 7:26 pm 
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Wow, ATM Ikuhara has a big lead in the poll. :oh:

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 Post subject: Re: Poll: Takeuchi or Ikuhara
PostPosted: Mon Oct 02, 2017 9:07 pm 
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Naoko created SM but all of
her ideas weren't sound. I'd rather a pro have it and they can refine her ideas


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 Post subject: Re: Poll: Takeuchi or Ikuhara
PostPosted: Mon Oct 02, 2017 9:20 pm 
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Clow wrote:
Ikuhara gets my vote. He knows how to use humor (for example, episode 21, the Sailor V anime episode) and does not shy away from more adult themes (for example, episode 46). I think Ikuhara directed the best episodes of the first season of "Sailor Moon" and he was also the series director of my favorite "Sailor Moon" season, "S." He also directed my favorite "Sailor Moon" movie, "The Promise of the Rose."

Ditto for all the reasons you mentioned.

Star Angel Haruki wrote:
Naoko created SM but all of her ideas weren't sound. I'd rather a pro have it and they can refine her ideas

Agreed. She'd come up with interesting ideas and concepts but more often than not she wouldn't follow through with them or execute them successfully.

MementoNepenthe wrote:
She was pretty involved in PGSM which is still the best incarnation of the series.

I'm not so sure about her degree of involvement. Yes, she was involved with casting choices and costume design but did she have a hand in the show's writing or direction? I highly doubt that. At the end of the day, PGSM was another adaptation that other people were in charge of (and which veered significantly from the source material) so I have trouble attributing PGSM's creative success to her.

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 Post subject: Re: Poll: Takeuchi or Ikuhara
PostPosted: Mon Oct 02, 2017 10:09 pm 
Solaris Luna
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I think a lot of PGSM's creative success had to do with the fact every episode was written by the same person, which allowed for maximum consistency and continuity. We'll never know how much input Naoko had personally on the story development side of PGSM, but in many ways, even where it deviates from the manga, it's still faithful to the manga's ideas, which, in turn, are Naoko's.

I love the R movie. It's one of my favorite parts of the 90s episodes. And I like a lot of the individual episodes Ikuhara directed. I appreciate his brand of humor and his use of symbolism in his work. But when I look at his concept for the SuperS movie, and when I look at the seasons he was the series director for (SuperS, S, and the latter half of R) and how they deviate from Naoko's work, I question his creativity and decision making.

At the same time, Naoko has admitted that she often gives up on things because she runs out of steam. With the Sailor Moon manga we can all see how its hectic release schedule resulted in uneven story-telling and poor character development. With those things in mind, would I trust her to helm a new anime series? No. But I wouldn't trust Ikuhara with one either. And if I had to choose between the two of them, I'd pick Naoko, because while she may get lazy or harried, I still overall trust her creative vision more than I trust Ikuhara's.

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 Post subject: Re: Poll: Takeuchi or Ikuhara
PostPosted: Mon Oct 02, 2017 10:18 pm 
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MementoNepenthe wrote:
I think a lot of PGSM's creative success had to do with the fact every episode was written by the same person, which allowed for maximum consistency and continuity. We'll never know how much input Naoko had personally on the story development side of PGSM, but in many ways, even where it deviates from the manga, it's still faithful to the manga's ideas, which, in turn, are Naoko's.

That writer was experienced in writing for tokusatsu shows. :)

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 Post subject: Re: Poll: Takeuchi or Ikuhara
PostPosted: Tue Oct 03, 2017 12:36 am 
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MariaTenebre wrote:
Ikuhara I tend to think that he is a better story teller and with him and the helm I think the series would have a more mature and consistent tone similar to Revolutionary Girl Utena. Plus I could see him adding more male characters even more male Senshi like Tuxedo Mask and definitely including more LGBT relationships. I mean the 90s anime added way more LGBT characters then the manga did. In the manga the only LGBT characters were Sailor Uranus and Sailor Neptune who were a couple and Sailor Star Fighter with her crush on Kakyuu and Usagi. There were pretty much no gay male characters in the manga.


^^^I agree completely with this well said Maria :happy:

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 Post subject: Re: Poll: Takeuchi or Ikuhara
PostPosted: Tue Oct 03, 2017 3:54 am 
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My understanding is that the 90's series had to deviate from Naoko's work because the manga was being written at the same time that the anime was being broadcasted. Unrelated arcs (the alien arc in "R", for example) had to be created, so that the writer would have time to present her story to the studio.

While I love Crystal, I don't like that it is an 1:1 adaptation. I wish each season had more episodes.

When CLAMP turned "Cardcaptor Sakura" into an anime, CLAMP viewed the need to stretch out the story and Nanase Ohkawa from CLAMP (who wrote the CCS screenplay) created additional cards (from 19 to 52). This allowed the creation of an anime with good pacing between the episodes.

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 Post subject: Re: Poll: Takeuchi or Ikuhara
PostPosted: Wed Oct 04, 2017 12:45 am 
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Ikuhara winning. This poll will run for only 7 days since the date it was created. Please vote! =^_^=

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 Post subject: Re: Poll: Takeuchi or Ikuhara
PostPosted: Wed Oct 04, 2017 1:16 am 
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Clow wrote:
My understanding is that the 90's series had to deviate from Naoko's work because the manga was being written at the same time that the anime was being broadcasted. Unrelated arcs (the alien arc in "R", for example) had to be created, so that the writer would have time to present her story to the studio.

While I love Crystal, I don't like that it is an 1:1 adaptation. I wish each season had more episodes.

When CLAMP turned "Cardcaptor Sakura" into an anime, CLAMP viewed the need to stretch out the story and Nanase Ohkawa from CLAMP (who wrote the CCS screenplay) created additional cards (from 19 to 52). This allowed the creation of an anime with good pacing between the episodes.

Yeah I agree I always hated how Crystal was a 1:1 adaptation I wish they did like CLAMP and added extra acts and episodes for character development.

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 Post subject: Re: Poll: Takeuchi or Ikuhara
PostPosted: Wed Oct 04, 2017 7:33 am 
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I definitely prefer Ikuhara as a writer, but I've been hearing rumors that give me the sense he needs someone to put him on a leash to get a coherent result? :googly:

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 Post subject: Re: Poll: Takeuchi or Ikuhara
PostPosted: Wed Oct 04, 2017 7:38 am 
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Salem Saberhagen wrote:
I definitely prefer Ikuhara as a writer, but I've been hearing rumors that give me the sense he needs someone to put him on a leash to get a coherent result? :googly:


Allegedly he had to be tied to a pole while directing episode 31. The cat episode.

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 Post subject: Re: Poll: Takeuchi or Ikuhara
PostPosted: Wed Oct 04, 2017 10:34 am 
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I cannot choose. Naoko created Sailor Moon, but she is a terrible writer whose story is incoherent and full of plotholes. Ikuhara is a better writer but sometimes I found his ideas twisted and weird, also I will never understand his hatred for Mamoru.


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 Post subject: Re: Poll: Takeuchi or Ikuhara
PostPosted: Wed Oct 04, 2017 10:57 am 
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SignorinaTsukino wrote:
I cannot choose. Naoko created Sailor Moon, but she is a terrible writer whose story is incoherent and full of plotholes. Ikuhara is a better writer but sometimes I found his ideas twisted and weird, also I will never understand his hatred for Mamoru.


Did he state that he hated Mamoru? :eek: :eeklez: :dead:

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 Post subject: Re: Poll: Takeuchi or Ikuhara
PostPosted: Wed Oct 04, 2017 11:23 am 
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Clow wrote:
SignorinaTsukino wrote:
I cannot choose. Naoko created Sailor Moon, but she is a terrible writer whose story is incoherent and full of plotholes. Ikuhara is a better writer but sometimes I found his ideas twisted and weird, also I will never understand his hatred for Mamoru.


Did he state that he hated Mamoru? :eek: :eeklez: :dead:
I remember reading an interview in which he states he hated Mamoru and he would have prefered to have Usagi dating Rei.


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 Post subject: Re: Poll: Takeuchi or Ikuhara
PostPosted: Wed Oct 04, 2017 11:27 am 
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Salem Saberhagen wrote:
I definitely prefer Ikuhara as a writer, but I've been hearing rumors that give me the sense he needs someone to put him on a leash to get a coherent result? :googly:


Oh right, those stories that came out around the time that Yurikima Arashi was coming out. :P

https://twitter.com/Good_Haro/status/552240377181138944
https://twitter.com/Good_Haro/status/552241758327697408
https://twitter.com/Good_Haro/status/552242629434277888
https://twitter.com/Good_Haro/status/552243174094028800
https://twitter.com/Good_Haro/status/552243294306975744
https://twitter.com/Good_Haro/status/552244640934424576

^All pics, last link is NSFW.

https://twitter.com/Good_Haro/status/552245871778099200 (pics here too)
https://twitter.com/Good_Haro/status/552246037973188608
https://twitter.com/Good_Haro/status/552246147947827200
https://twitter.com/Good_Haro/status/552246203446870017

Quote:
Ikuni's new year's cards from 1991-1994 (1993 had to be omitted because it was too risque!)

The 1994 one relates to Enokido's story of how he first met Ikuhara. Ikuni met him one day wearing nothing but a trench coat, tie and socks
Ikuni handed him a camera and proceeded to steal the mascot from the front of a drugstore…
I think you can figure out the rest lol


https://twitter.com/Good_Haro/status/552246970622816256
https://twitter.com/Good_Haro/status/552247137635811328
https://twitter.com/Good_Haro/status/552247662980767745
https://twitter.com/Good_Haro/status/552252542835372034
https://twitter.com/Good_Haro/status/552253950733213696
https://twitter.com/Good_Haro/status/552254119323258882
https://twitter.com/Good_Haro/status/552254283400220672
https://twitter.com/Good_Haro/status/552254385619607552
https://twitter.com/Good_Haro/status/552254561268678656

Quote:
Maybe I just haven't looked hard enough and missed it, but as far as I can tell there aren't any books about Ikuni
There's tons of ☹ on Anno and on Ikuhara's works, but Ikuhara himself? Nothing as far as I can tell and he's a fascinating dude
I guess there is that doujinshi Anno put out (yes, Hideaki Anno put together a doujinshi about Ikuhara back in '94)

While I'm on an #ikunifacts kick: did you know Anno used to call him (maybe still does?) Iku-chan?

Oh yeah also from Enokido's essay in that doujinshi Anno put together: interesting factoid about ep 31 of Sailor Moon…
It's that weird Luna-centric episode. Apparently the rest of the staff were kind of concerned/weirded out by the direction Ikuni was going
So one of the production assistants ended up tying him to a pillar in the hall at Toei for like a time-out
And Ikuni sat on the floor, crying while tied to a pillar drawing his storyboard (it went on to win an award later)

Maybe Shirobako's caging of Debushima isn't really that strange after all… lol


For those unfamiliar with Enokido, he was one of the show's writers

http://www.animenewsnetwork.com/encyclo ... hp?id=4290

http://forum.evageeks.org/post/672392/K ... on/#672392

^Some more here on Ikuhara from an interview during an event in 2013.

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 Post subject: Re: Poll: Takeuchi or Ikuhara
PostPosted: Wed Oct 04, 2017 6:36 pm 
Columnae Creationis
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^ After reading those, I've finally decided to vote for him, w/o any hesitation. :mischief:

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 Post subject: Re: Poll: Takeuchi or Ikuhara
PostPosted: Thu Oct 05, 2017 10:42 pm 
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SignorinaTsukino wrote:
Clow wrote:
SignorinaTsukino wrote:
I cannot choose. Naoko created Sailor Moon, but she is a terrible writer whose story is incoherent and full of plotholes. Ikuhara is a better writer but sometimes I found his ideas twisted and weird, also I will never understand his hatred for Mamoru.


Did he state that he hated Mamoru? :eek: :eeklez: :dead:
I remember reading an interview in which he states he hated Mamoru and he would have prefered to have Usagi dating Rei.

I don't think he actually hated Mamoru I think that was a joke. I mean hell he did the R movie which was a very pro Usagi and Mamoru story.

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 Post subject: Re: Poll: Takeuchi or Ikuhara
PostPosted: Fri Oct 06, 2017 1:36 am 
Solaris Luna
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MementoNepenthe wrote:
I think a lot of PGSM's creative success had to do with the fact every episode was written by the same person, which allowed for maximum consistency and continuity. We'll never know how much input Naoko had personally on the story development side of PGSM, but in many ways, even where it deviates from the manga, it's still faithful to the manga's ideas, which, in turn, are Naoko's.

I love the R movie. It's one of my favorite parts of the 90s episodes. And I like a lot of the individual episodes Ikuhara directed. I appreciate his brand of humor and his use of symbolism in his work. But when I look at his concept for the SuperS movie, and when I look at the seasons he was the series director for (SuperS, S, and the latter half of R) and how they deviate from Naoko's work, I question his creativity and decision making.

At the same time, Naoko has admitted that she often gives up on things because she runs out of steam. With the Sailor Moon manga we can all see how its hectic release schedule resulted in uneven story-telling and poor character development. With those things in mind, would I trust her to helm a new anime series? No. But I wouldn't trust Ikuhara with one either. And if I had to choose between the two of them, I'd pick Naoko, because while she may get lazy or harried, I still overall trust her creative vision more than I trust Ikuhara's.


MementoNepenthe, were you referring to Yasuko Kobayachi?

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 Post subject: Re: Poll: Takeuchi or Ikuhara
PostPosted: Fri Oct 06, 2017 5:06 am 
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One of my personal favorite minor characters was Yoshiki Usui and his boyfriend. I really enjoyed their characters and their story. I even made in my fanfiction Yoshiki to be Hina Kusaka's best friend she grew up around who designs her clothes.

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