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 Post subject: Usagi Tsukino: Secret Occult Otaku or Psycho Mom?
PostPosted: Thu Dec 07, 2017 3:46 pm 
Solaris Luna
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In just about every single official character bio / profile, Usagi's dislike/fear/weakness is listed as ghosts. We see, especially in the 90s anime, that Usagi does not like scary things on multiple occasions. In the first Chibiusa's Picture Diary, we see Usagi freak out when everyone starts talking about vampires. Clearly Usagi does not like anything spooky.

Or does she?

From Dream 1: Eclipse Dream:

Chibi-Usa/Rini is having trouble getting to sleep...

KODANSHA TRANSLATION:

Quote:
Chibi-Usa: Say...tell me a story? You see, when I was really, really little, Mama would tell me stories at my bedside until I feel asleep.
Mamoru: What kind of stories?
Chibi-Usa: About an empire that sank into the sea... And about the secrets of the pyramids... And about a cursed diamond... About cyborgs...and vampires...and a mirror...
Usagi(?): A mirror?
Chibi-Usa: Yeah! She said that on the other side of the mirror was another, pitch-black world. That's why you should never look in a mirror on the night of a new moon. You'll be drawn into the other world inside the mirror.


TOKYOPOP TRANSLATION:

Quote:
Rini: Tell me a story... When I was little, Mommy used to tell stories until I fell asleep.
Darien: About what?
Rini: About big empires that sunk into the ocean, the mysteries of the pyramids, about haunted diamonds, artificial humans, vampires, and stories about mirrors...
Serena(?): About mirrors?
Rini: On the other side of the mirror, this dark world supposedly exists. That's why you must not look into a mirror during a full moon. You'll get sucked into the other world.


I find this moment to be incredibly interesting. Now, Neo Queen Serenity is of course much older and wiser than present day Usagi is. She's lived and ruled (the world?) as queen for over 900 years. She's a wife and mother. She collects art and literature and jewels, hobbies I'm not sure our Usagi would be much interested in (at least, not the art and literature collecting). But in other ways she's not that different. We get glimpses of her making goofy faces. In the 90s anime Diana unwittingly reveals that Neo Queen Serenity often plays hooky from formal/official meetings. And NQS STILL doesn't know how to write kanji.

So this makes me wonder... Does Usagi develop an interest in occult stories later on in life? Or is she already (secretly) into that stuff? Does she enjoy being scared?

A third option is that she's actually just telling Chibi-Usa / Usagi Small Lady Serenity stories from her own life. The cyborg stories could be inspired by Hotaru, whom she'd presumably still have met in a Chibi-Usa-free timeline. The vampire stories likewise could be inspired by Lilica Hubert. The mirror story inspired by the Dead Moon Circus. As for the sunken empire (Atlantis?), cursed diamond (the Hope Diamond?), and pyramid stories? Perhaps those were inspired by events experienced by the Sailors that we never got to see.

But let's get back to that mirror story for a second.

From Dream 9/11: Earth & Moon Dream

In this flashback scene to Silver Millennium times, we see a very young Princess Serenity run crying into her mother's room:

KODANSHA TRANSLATION:

Quote:
Queen: What's the matter, Serenity?
Princess: I can't sleep. When I close my eyes, a black monster starts chasing me. Venus and the others told me a scary story... That an awful black monster lives inside mirrors and eats crybaby children. Is it true?
Queen: Serenity...


TOKYOPOP TRANSLATION:

Quote:
Queen: What's the matter, Serenity?
Princess: I can't sleep! As soon as I close my eyes a black monster starts attacking me! Venus and them told me this scary story... Is it really true that a black monster lives inside the mirror and eats up crybabies?
Queen: Serenity...


In a way, I feel like this flashback is meant to bookend the aforementioned scene from the first act of the Dream Arc. Just as Usagi was scared by the mirror story Chibi-Usa tells her, so was Princess Serenity scared by the mirror story told to her by Venus and the others. And yet, someday in the future, Usagi/Neo Queen Serenity herself apparently will tell such stories to her own daughter (when Chibi-Usa is "really, really little" no less.) Same goes for the vampire stories. Though Usagi was terrified of them, she told them to her young daughter at bedtime!

So what does this all mean? That Usagi secretly loves such scary things all along? That she outgrew being scared and then became oblivious to the possible traumatic effects such stories can have on young children? That Neo Queen Serenity is a psychotic, abusive mother trying to scare her daughter? That she's an indulgent mother, since evidently Chibi Usa enjoyed these bedtime stories and found them comforting?

I don't know. I know this is a tl;dr post, but I just find this topic really interesting and I don't know what to make of it myself. Thoughts?

(Goes on to tell her about
everyone having a star in their heart and to not
be scared and keep your light shining strong.)

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 Post subject: Re: Usagi Tsukino: Secret Occult Otaku or Psycho Mom?
PostPosted: Thu Dec 07, 2017 9:02 pm 
Luna Nova
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I think all of these examples are definitely references to the events in Dream Arc, since NQS would have undoubtedly already experienced it, and she could be telling them to Chibiusa as not only a good story but also as a way to prepare her for what's coming.

The other parts are probably just good stories (Atlantis etc) that Chibiusa wanted to hear from her. I'm imagining a scenario where NQS teased Chibiusa with something along the lines of ''You don't want to hear this story, it's too scary for you!!!'', Chibiusa is all like ''No! I'm a big girl!! Tell me!'' and eventually Chibiusa got really into that stuff so it became an affectionate routine for them.

NQS is obviously more mature than her younger self so maybe she's not ACTUALLY scared of those things anymore, but still gets some fun out of them and her daughter does too- so she's telling them for fun but also inserting important information (mirrors) into it. To me, that perfectly illustrates the kind of character that NQS is- mature, regal, but also still kind of a dork.

I know this is mostly about the manga but Usagi HAS expressed some interests in creepy subjects in the anime- such as the doll episode where she mentions how cool a ''cursed doll'' would be. Yet in that same season is the Haunted House episode.

More likely answer- plot device.

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 Post subject: Re: Usagi Tsukino: Secret Occult Otaku or Psycho Mom?
PostPosted: Thu Dec 07, 2017 9:17 pm 
Luna
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I agree, the in-universe reason is that she ultimately outgrew them. Especially as she's living said stories and worse.
MementoNepenthe wrote:
And NQS STILL doesn't know how to write kanji.

That is actually perfectly normal: once the world is unified the language of choice would be English (as it's already the de-facto lingua franca), it would be perfectly normal for her to give up on them as they fall into uselessness. In fact, I'm not convinced anyone but Rei and possibly Minako still knows how to write kanji in the 30th century (Rei's ofudas are made by writing kanji, so she'd keep it up, and Minako is Minako... And can use Rei's ofudas, or could just make her own).

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 Post subject: Re: Usagi Tsukino: Secret Occult Otaku or Psycho Mom?
PostPosted: Thu Dec 07, 2017 9:36 pm 
Luna
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Not sure why the official language would be English if the ruling monarch is Japanese


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 Post subject: Re: Usagi Tsukino: Secret Occult Otaku or Psycho Mom?
PostPosted: Fri Dec 08, 2017 10:53 pm 
Luna
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LifeGaveMeLemons wrote:
Not sure why the official language would be English if the ruling monarch is Japanese

Convenience: almost everyone in the world speaks or at least understands it.

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 Post subject: Re: Usagi Tsukino: Secret Occult Otaku or Psycho Mom?
PostPosted: Sat Dec 09, 2017 12:41 am 
Solaris Luna
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lord Martiya wrote:
I agree, the in-universe reason is that she ultimately outgrew them. Especially as she's living said stories and worse.
MementoNepenthe wrote:
And NQS STILL doesn't know how to write kanji.

That is actually perfectly normal: once the world is unified the language of choice would be English (as it's already the de-facto lingua franca), it would be perfectly normal for her to give up on them as they fall into uselessness. In fact, I'm not convinced anyone but Rei and possibly Minako still knows how to write kanji in the 30th century (Rei's ofudas are made by writing kanji, so she'd keep it up, and Minako is Minako... And can use Rei's ofudas, or could just make her own).


Even if Neo Queen Serenity no longer finds scary stories actually scary, that doesn't explain why she, surely recalling how frightened by them she was even as a teenager, would choose to use them as bedtime stories for her very, very young daughter. Seems a strange choice.

Also, I don't see Usagi making English the official language of Crystal Tokyo when English is her worst subject in school.

Also... Minako? MINAKO would remember kanji, but not Ami or Mamoru or Setsuna? Okay...

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 Post subject: Re: Usagi Tsukino: Secret Occult Otaku or Psycho Mom?
PostPosted: Sat Dec 09, 2017 10:44 pm 
Luna
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MementoNepenthe wrote:
Even if Neo Queen Serenity no longer finds scary stories actually scary, that doesn't explain why she, surely recalling how frightened by them she was even as a teenager, would choose to use them as bedtime stories for her very, very young daughter. Seems a strange choice.

Chibiusa is 900. We don't know when she started telling her those stories.
MementoNepenthe wrote:
Also, I don't see Usagi making English the official language of Crystal Tokyo when English is her worst subject in school.

And I cannot absolutely fathom her not making English as the official language of the planet. Almost everyone already speaks it or at least understands it, why forcing them to learn something else?
Also, Minako is very fluent in the language but has issues with it as a school subject due the way it's taught in Japanese schools, who says Usagi didn't get fluent thanks to her but her grades did not improve because at school is all about rote memorization?
MementoNepenthe wrote:
Also... Minako? MINAKO would remember kanji, but not Ami or Mamoru or Setsuna? Okay...

She has a reason to continue practice it, namely having picked up Rei's ofuda technique and not being always able to steal them from her. As for the others, they have little reason to keep up with it: Ami's medical publications would be in English, Mamoru's political documents would be the same, anime!Setsuna speaks the Silver Millennium language as her first language so she'd be even faster to lose practice with kanji (assuming she can actually read them. Did we actually ever see her write or read, or she just spoke?), and manga!Setsuna, as a botanist and a nurse, would have the same reasons as Ami to not keep up with kanji.

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 Post subject: Re: Usagi Tsukino: Secret Occult Otaku or Psycho Mom?
PostPosted: Sun Dec 10, 2017 2:38 am 
Luna Nova
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lord Martiya wrote:
And I cannot absolutely fathom her not making English as the official language of the planet. Almost everyone already speaks it or at least understands it, why forcing them to learn something else?


I doubt anyone can fathom the idea of a human from the moon using her magical powers to rule the entire planet and grant immortality to it's citizens, either. :lol: I think using real-world information is good for this kind of thing but you should probably remember that this isn't the real world we're talking about. What if NQS also gives people the ability to fluently speak any foreign language? What if she magically makes people speak only one language, such as Japanese or Moon language? We barely saw any of the society in Silver Millenium 2.0, anything is possible.

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 Post subject: Re: Usagi Tsukino: Secret Occult Otaku or Psycho Mom?
PostPosted: Sun Dec 10, 2017 2:46 am 
Yoshi
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Serena-Hime wrote:
We barely saw any of the society in Silver Millenium 2.0, anything is possible.


We didn't see much of the culture and technology of Silver Millenium 1.0 other than their lavish daily after hours party :booze:. :ohdear:

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 Post subject: Re: Usagi Tsukino: Secret Occult Otaku or Psycho Mom?
PostPosted: Sun Dec 10, 2017 10:33 pm 
Luna
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Serena-Hime wrote:
I doubt anyone can fathom the idea of a human from the moon using her magical powers to rule the entire planet and grant immortality to it's citizens, either. :lol: I think using real-world information is good for this kind of thing but you should probably remember that this isn't the real world we're talking about. What if NQS also gives people the ability to fluently speak any foreign language? What if she magically makes people speak only one language, such as Japanese or Moon language? We barely saw any of the society in Silver Millenium 2.0, anything is possible.

Then why didn't she magically give herself the ability to use kanji?

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 Post subject: Re: Usagi Tsukino: Secret Occult Otaku or Psycho Mom?
PostPosted: Sun Dec 10, 2017 11:43 pm 
Luna Nova
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lord Martiya wrote:
Serena-Hime wrote:
I doubt anyone can fathom the idea of a human from the moon using her magical powers to rule the entire planet and grant immortality to it's citizens, either. :lol: I think using real-world information is good for this kind of thing but you should probably remember that this isn't the real world we're talking about. What if NQS also gives people the ability to fluently speak any foreign language? What if she magically makes people speak only one language, such as Japanese or Moon language? We barely saw any of the society in Silver Millenium 2.0, anything is possible.

Then why didn't she magically give herself the ability to use kanji?

Why would NQS urge her past-self to study more if she doesn't have any need to use kanji in the future? Also IIRC that scene is specific to the 90's anime and my response (as well as the thread) is using the manga as a reference.

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 Post subject: Re: Usagi Tsukino: Secret Occult Otaku or Psycho Mom?
PostPosted: Mon Dec 11, 2017 10:38 pm 
Luna
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Serena-Hime wrote:
Why would NQS urge her past-self to study more if she doesn't have any need to use kanji in the future?

Because she'll have to rule a planet, of course. And considering NQS cannot write kanji, it's clear she won't have any need for them.
Serena-Hime wrote:
Also IIRC that scene is specific to the 90's anime and my response (as well as the thread) is using the manga as a reference.

And that disproves my theory she doesn't need to use kanji because the world switched to English how, exactly?

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 Post subject: Re: Usagi Tsukino: Secret Occult Otaku or Psycho Mom?
PostPosted: Tue Dec 12, 2017 5:21 am 
Luna Nova
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lord Martiya wrote:
Serena-Hime wrote:
Why would NQS urge her past-self to study more if she doesn't have any need to use kanji in the future?

Because she'll have to rule a planet, of course. And considering NQS cannot write kanji, it's clear she won't have any need for them.
Serena-Hime wrote:
Also IIRC that scene is specific to the 90's anime and my response (as well as the thread) is using the manga as a reference.

And that disproves my theory she doesn't need to use kanji because the world switched to English how, exactly?

It doesn't disprove your theory- it renders that specific example as irrelevant as a response to me, because I was referring to the manga. You're welcome to have that theory, I just disagree that your logic is enough to definitively say English will be the preferred language in Silver Millenium. As I said, real world information is helpful when discussing these topics, but this isn't the real world. I'm not out to disprove your theory, I'm merely having a discussion about the subject.

However, if you want me to acknowledge the 90's anime in this discussion,

Quote:
And considering NQS cannot write kanji, it's clear she won't have any need for them.

Considering they are both part of the same scene (where the lack of kanji characters in her letter is noted/ that she wants Usagi to study more), it can be assumed that NQS asked Usagi to study more specifically because she can't write kanji. The scene was presumably written to illustrate how similar NQS is to her past-self. Going off of that, it can be assumed that NQS does wish she learned kanji because she needs it as an adult.

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 Post subject: Re: Usagi Tsukino: Secret Occult Otaku or Psycho Mom?
PostPosted: Tue Dec 12, 2017 10:48 pm 
Luna
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Serena-Hime wrote:
It doesn't disprove your theory- it renders that specific example as irrelevant as a response to me, because I was referring to the manga. You're welcome to have that theory, I just disagree that your logic is enough to definitively say English will be the preferred language in Silver Millenium. As I said, real world information is helpful when discussing these topics, but this isn't the real world. I'm not out to disprove your theory, I'm merely having a discussion about the subject.

Suit yourself. But considering that choosing literally any other language would be a mess for both practical and political reasons (for example, both Koreas would react violently if someone tried to impose Japanese on them again, and most Japanese wouldn't like having to speak Korean or Chinese), it's either English or an artificial language made from scraps after the unification.
Serena-Hime wrote:
Considering they are both part of the same scene (where the lack of kanji characters in her letter is noted/ that she wants Usagi to study more), it can be assumed that NQS asked Usagi to study more specifically because she can't write kanji. The scene was presumably written to illustrate how similar NQS is to her past-self. Going off of that, it can be assumed that NQS does wish she learned kanji because she needs it as an adult.

Or, more easily, she told her to study because, as the future queen of the world, having a preparation would be really useful, and getting in a good college is hellishly hard (and there's actually a subtle hint that Usagi became queen of the world right out of college. If nothing else, she had the right age to have married Mamoru and become queen after entering college at the first try). And college would literally be the only thing she'd find kanji useful for, because, as already detailed, continued use of Japanese in a world nation would be at best very impractical.

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 Post subject: Re: Usagi Tsukino: Secret Occult Otaku or Psycho Mom?
PostPosted: Sun Dec 17, 2017 3:32 am 
Luna
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It’s a show where the rest of the world seems pretty accepting of a Japanese based monarchy becoming rulers of the entire world. A monarchy that is of no true royal lineage since Princess Serenity and Endymion are dead and their kingdoms long gone and forgotten to history. But yes let’s bring real world politics into it. Realistically Japan miiiight accept her as their Queen but the rest of the world would be bombing Crystal Tokyo.


Also Mandarin and Spanish are more common than English https://www.accreditedlanguage.com/2016 ... languages/ so you’re not even correct there.


More likely the citizens of Crystal Tokyo still speak Japanese as a first langauge. Especially since Chibi Usa speaks Japanese just fine. And as the royal family of the earth is in Japan, speaks Japanese and the main business district is in Tokyo more likely Japanese would have become the most common language although I imagine the rest of the world still continues to speak their own langauge.

You’re seriously reading waaay to much into a joke that is “lolol even as a Queen Usagi is so scholastically challenged she’s using the wrong writing system”


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