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 Post subject: The most atrocious SM dub of all time
PostPosted: Fri Dec 15, 2017 11:00 pm 
Luna Crescens
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Back in the day, Albania only aired seasons Classic, R, and SuperS of Sailor Moon. I don't know why exactly, but I assume the LGBT themes in S and Stars played a role on this. (Remember Albania is a muslim country in eastern Europe). They were the first country to re-air the series back in 2011, but only the three seasons they previously aired.

Their Classic, R and SuperS dub is mysteriously based on the english ones. Along with the vietnamese voice-over, this is the only stance of this happening to an international SM dub.

Moon Tiara Magic!



She is the one named Sailor Moon!



Apparently, this year, they finally decided to produce a dub for both S and Stars, based on the italian version. The problem is... They don't have the music and effects track! They are using the raw video to make their dub, having no access to the audio files. As a result, the BGM and SFX are being ruined.







Bonus: the italian Stars opening gloriously sung along the japanese footage.



I've heard they're actually downloading the episodes and ilegally producing a dub, but I can't tell if that's true.


Last edited by kevoso96 on Sat Dec 16, 2017 12:33 am, edited 1 time in total.

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 Post subject: Re: The most atrocious SM dub of all time
PostPosted: Fri Dec 15, 2017 11:05 pm 
Aurorae Lunares
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Is it worse than the South Korean dub?


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 Post subject: Re: The most atrocious SM dub of all time
PostPosted: Sat Dec 16, 2017 12:16 am 
Luna Crescens
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I hope they change their mind and will not base Stars on the italian version...If not, I apologize to all the Albanain fans


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 Post subject: Re: The most atrocious SM dub of all time
PostPosted: Sat Dec 16, 2017 4:09 am 
Solaris Luna
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I find this strangely interesting and mildly entertaining.

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 Post subject: Re: The most atrocious SM dub of all time
PostPosted: Sat Dec 16, 2017 4:10 am 
Systema Solare
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I'm sorry but nothing tops the Cloverway dub aside from the absolutely amazing Stephanie Beard :love: the whole voice cast was awful

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 Post subject: Re: The most atrocious SM dub of all time
PostPosted: Sat Dec 16, 2017 7:49 am 
Luna
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Ryo Urawa wrote:
I'm sorry but nothing tops the Cloverway dub aside from the absolutely amazing Stephanie Beard :love: the whole voice cast was awful


Jeff Lumby, Jen Gould, and the actresses that did the Amazon Quartet were fantastic. Plus the returning actors like Katie Griffin, Vince Corazza, Susan Roman, and Karen Bishop were all solid. But yes everyone but Stephanie Beard was awful :|

And last I checked the Cloverway dub didn’t erase anything too Japanese like the South Korea dub did. But yes nothing tops the Cloverway dub that’s not an uninformed statement at all. God I think I went blind from rolling my eyes too far back


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 Post subject: Re: The most atrocious SM dub of all time
PostPosted: Sat Dec 16, 2017 8:06 am 
Luna Nova
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LifeGaveMeLemons wrote:
Ryo Urawa wrote:
I'm sorry but nothing tops the Cloverway dub aside from the absolutely amazing Stephanie Beard :love: the whole voice cast was awful


Jeff Lumby, Jen Gould, and the actresses that did the Amazon Quarter were fantastic. Plus the returning actors like Katie Griffin, Vince Corazza, Susan Roman, and Karen Bishop were all solid. But yes everyone but Stephanie Beard was awful :|

And last I checked the Cloverway dub didn’t erase anything too Japanese like the South Korea dub did. But yes nothing tops the Cloverway dub that’s not an uninformed statement at all. God I think I went blind from rolling my eyes too far back


I think a few of the really bad performances stood out to people enough that a lot of people thought all of it was bad. I am not the kind to really stand up for the Cloverway dub but the most glaring issue in their dub was Linda Ballantyne as Sailor Moon and at time even she was good when she wasn't doing a bad impression of Terri Hawkes. Her Sailor Moon voice was good it's her Serena voice that was bad. Most of the cast for the Dic dub did stay for S and SuperS and I think they continued to deliver despite whatever time frame or material they had to work with.


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 Post subject: Re: The most atrocious SM dub of all time
PostPosted: Sat Dec 16, 2017 8:32 am 
Lumen Cinereum
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My brain REALLY wanted to read "Jeff Lumby and Jen Gould" as "Gumby" and now I'm imagining a Sailor Moon/Gumby crossover and it honestly sounds kind of amazing. "He can walk into any beautiful dream mirror, with his pony pal Pokey-Eye too..." and you know, I 'm pretty sure there was an 80s Gumby episode where he got mind-controlled by the Blockheads, and then there's this other episode where he makes friends with them and gives them these little peace sign badges. That is a bit Sailor Moonesque.

General Gumbinite? Eh, probably not.

As someone who sticks mostly to subs I don't have a strong opinion, nor a lot of knowledge about different language versions of the show, except to say that I don't really like any story changes because it undermines the creative intent.

But sometimes I go music hunting on youtube and that leads me to alternate-language Sailor Moon songs. I really like some of the German intro themes, especially Sag Das Zauberwort (I've hunted up a ton of fan versions of it too!) and Fliieg durch die Wolken (the Harmoonics version of that one is especially good). And I like the Cantonese version of Sailor Star Song. There's also this great cover artist named Salome Anjari who does japanese and espanol (spanish) versions of a lot of songs, I love all her Sailor Moon work.

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 Post subject: Re: The most atrocious SM dub of all time
PostPosted: Sat Dec 16, 2017 1:13 pm 
Solaris Luna
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LifeGaveMeLemons wrote:
Ryo Urawa wrote:
I'm sorry but nothing tops the Cloverway dub aside from the absolutely amazing Stephanie Beard :love: the whole voice cast was awful


Jeff Lumby, Jen Gould, and the actresses that did the Amazon Quartet were fantastic. Plus the returning actors like Katie Griffin, Vince Corazza, Susan Roman, and Karen Bishop were all solid. But yes everyone but Stephanie Beard was awful :|

And last I checked the Cloverway dub didn’t erase anything too Japanese like the South Korea dub did. But yes nothing tops the Cloverway dub that’s not an uninformed statement at all. God I think I went blind from rolling my eyes too far back


I think you mean Kirsten Bishop :wink:

And while I certainly agree that South Korean dub is probably a lot worse than the CWi dub, I get why people would feel the CWi dub is the worst. The terminology changes not only from episode to episode, but sometimes within the same scene. It makes it almost impossible to get a grasp on what's supposed to be going on until like halfway through the season. Linda's performance at the beginning of the season isn't great (though she does get better by the time Eudial and Mini Moon show up, and I still prefer Linda to Stephanie by miles). And, of course, there's the whole "cousins" debacle and the use of terrible, terrible slang. So, while I think the original S dub has some good stuff, it's unfortunately outweighed by the bad (IMO). Again, *I* don't think it's the /worst/ dub ever, but I can see how some might feel that way.

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 Post subject: Re: The most atrocious SM dub of all time
PostPosted: Sat Dec 16, 2017 4:47 pm 
Aurorae Lunares
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The DiC dub also had plenty of bad voice acting and inconsistent attack names but fans have more of a nostalgic attachment to the DiC dub so they can more easily overlook all the bad valley girl slang and Terri Hawkes' yodeling. How many attack names did DiC have for Moon Princess Halation? DiC never did figure out what Serena's correct "I will punish you" speech was and towards the end they kept swapping back and forth on Sailor Scout vs Sailor Soldier. All the voice acting in both DiC and Cloverway was handled by Optimum, so it's incorrect to blame Cloverway for the voice acting issues. Even if DiC stayed in charge, the voice acting would have probably been mostly the same as Terri Hawkes was retiring from voice acting anyway to take care of her baby, so Linda still probably would have ended up playing Serena either way. While far from perfect, Cloverway still followed the original more faithfully. You never saw Cloverway claim the Death Busters worked for Queen Beryl and they never skipped and combined a dozen episodes. I can understand not liking the Cloverway dub, but all the problems fans attack Cloverway dub over were all present in the DiC version too. And other problems like the voice acting were all the fault of Optimum and not Cloverway.


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 Post subject: Re: The most atrocious SM dub of all time
PostPosted: Sat Dec 16, 2017 11:10 pm 
Solaris Luna
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The Portugal dub is pretty bad VA wise. I simply adore the one dub where they say Bitsroi Yap? (I think that's it. ) I like how they say their phrases. Heart Moon Crystal Power!

The German dub is cool.


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 Post subject: Re: The most atrocious SM dub of all time
PostPosted: Sat Dec 16, 2017 11:22 pm 
Lapis Lunaris
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Star Angel Haruki wrote:
The Portugal dub is pretty bad VA wise. I simply adore the one dub where they say Bitsroi Yap? (I think that's it. ) I like how they say their phrases. Heart Moon Crystal Power!

The German dub is cool.


I'm from Portugal, I have to say that our dub failed sometimes, was full of popular jokes and was dubbed by old people.

The "Bitsroi Yap" dub is the Korean one.

And wtf? I'm sure they're illegally producing it. Toei would give them the instrumental tracks, because ViZ has them, so it's still going around and it's alive. Awkward...

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 Post subject: Re: The most atrocious SM dub of all time
PostPosted: Sun Dec 17, 2017 12:41 am 
Luna
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MementoNepenthe wrote:

I think you mean Kirsten Bishop :wink:


Oops mistake. But yes she was great and I’m glad Optimum used her for all 4 waves of the dub

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, I get why people would feel the CWi dub is the worst. The terminology changes not only from episode to episode, but sometimes within the same scene.

Which is bad but nowhere near as bad as erasing any scene with Rei in her miko outfit (which is a lot and a lot of plot important scenes. Or anything too Japanese like a much worse digital sandwich era 4Kids

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It makes it almost impossible to get a grasp on what's supposed to be going on until like halfway through the season.

Disagree. Even with the 30 names for the messiah, holy grail, and talisman then plot was extremely simplistic and easy to follow

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but I can see how some might feel that way.

Again I can’t because the South Korea dub exist and I’m sure there are other worse dubs. I’m not going to defend Cloverway dub as quality work but there are so much worse dubs for Sailor Moon.


Neon Genesis also brings up a valid point most of the issues where with Cloverway not Optimum. Nicole Thault was a terrible voice director and Roland Parliament even said she visibly squirmed when Tracy Moore kept wanting multiple takes for the same scene during her days as voice director (and shocker the first 10 episodes of the DiC dub are the best in terms of voice acting and internal consistency)


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 Post subject: Re: The most atrocious SM dub of all time
PostPosted: Sun Dec 17, 2017 1:39 am 
Aurorae Lunares
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I would also place a lot of blame on Cartoon Network for rushing the production of the dub. Trying to push out like 77 dubbed episodes in a year was always a reckless choice and so naturally there's going to be a lot of inconcistencies in the writing when Cartoon Network gave Cloverway virtually zero time to polish the dub. Wasn't it the French dub that changed it so Haruka changed genders when she transformed and Michiru pretended to be her girlfriend?


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 Post subject: Re: The most atrocious SM dub of all time
PostPosted: Sun Dec 17, 2017 2:19 am 
Luna
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Yes, I believe that’s correct. Haruka became Frederique or something. Which I’m sorry is so much worse than cousins from Alabama.


I’m not sure if Cartoon Network rushing 77 episodes out in 6 months caused as much problem. From what I remember hearing the first 65 episodes for DiC was done in 3 months. And the first run was less than two months. Cartoon Network not pacing it out probably caused issue but no so much as horrid mangement from Optimum.

I honesty need to revisit the Cwi dub sometime. I generally stop the old dub on rewatches at Final Battle or Follow the Leader


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 Post subject: Re: The most atrocious SM dub of all time
PostPosted: Sun Dec 17, 2017 3:42 am 
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Really I would say probably the worst dub is probably the South Korean dub. They hacked huge portions of the series away. It honestly makes the DiC dub look better by comparison.

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 Post subject: Re: The most atrocious SM dub of all time
PostPosted: Sun Dec 17, 2017 4:19 am 
Aurorae Lunares
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LifeGaveMeLemons wrote:


I’m not sure if Cartoon Network rushing 77 episodes out in 6 months caused as much problem. From what I remember hearing the first 65 episodes for DiC was done in 3 months. And the first run was less than two months. Cartoon Network not pacing it out probably caused issue but no so much as horrid mangement from Optimum.

The Cloverway dub also had the issue that the ADR was apparently French and didn't known English. I don't think she got along as well with the voice cast as much as they did with Roland Parliment either.


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 Post subject: Re: The most atrocious SM dub of all time
PostPosted: Sun Dec 17, 2017 4:25 am 
Luna
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She didn’t speak English and from what I understand from Roland’s book she hated multiple takes because it cost money. Like Optimum probably SHOULD have let Katie Griffin or Susan Roman take over as voice directors.


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 Post subject: Re: The most atrocious SM dub of all time
PostPosted: Sun Dec 17, 2017 1:30 pm 
Solaris Luna
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Yeah, Nichole was definitely the problem source for the original dub. Without her arrogance and incompetence, I have no doubt whatsoever we would have gotten a much better show.

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 Post subject: Re: The most atrocious SM dub of all time
PostPosted: Sun Dec 17, 2017 9:18 pm 
Lumen Cinereum
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I'm sure Albanians think non-Albanian dubbers' accents are atrocious too.

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 Post subject: Re: The most atrocious SM dub of all time
PostPosted: Sun Dec 17, 2017 10:44 pm 
Lumen Cinereum
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LifeGaveMeLemons wrote:
Roland’s book


Roland Parliament, voice actor of "Melvin" Umino, wrote a book about the DiC dub production??

*looks him up directly on Wikimoon instead of just the Umino article*

Ah, he was the voice director for the first 65 episodes (which means DiC only, and dropping out during the Black Moon arc I guess), and also Rhett Butler/"Hercules" (Man, I would totally watch Rhett Butler: Journey No Densetsu if it existed (Because of Hercules: The Legendary Journeys, you see)). And a few other voices.

But still, he wrote a book about this? Or was it more of a general autobiography of his career that just happened to mention Sailor Moon? And he was still involved in the production I guess even when he stopped being the director, since he voiced some Metro Director rando in S and I think he was still Melvin? (What is the name of this book, and is it available to read online anywhere?)

Also, it's kinda awesome that the voice director himself played Umino. Now I'm picturing the DiC dub as Umino's names-changed-to-protect-the-innocent fanfiction about his own life. That's why only the parts about Naru/"Molly" are accurate. And the Shitennou's names are also changed to to protect the innocent which is why they're spelled/pronounced wrong and why there's "Malachite"! Only the famous superhero names and good old Queen Barrel are unchanged, because she's not exactly innocent. It all makes sense, I swear, no crackpot theories here.

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 Post subject: Re: The most atrocious SM dub of all time
PostPosted: Sun Dec 17, 2017 11:00 pm 
Solaris Luna
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It's called "Sailor Moon Reflections" and you can get it on Amazon. It's basically a write-up of the production of the DiC dub and includes some essays written by some of the old dub voice actors. I haven't read it myself yet, but I mean to get around to doing so soon.

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 Post subject: Re: The most atrocious SM dub of all time
PostPosted: Sun Dec 17, 2017 11:25 pm 
Lumen Cinereum
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So I see! It sounds pretty intriguing, as I think I'm more interested in the behind-the-scenes of the DiC dub than in the dub itself. I might buy the book sometime down the road when I've got my housing situation figured out. Especially if I ever have a kindle, since downloading it for that really cheap (I wonder if the kindle format is readable without an actual kindle? I always thought they just used PDFs or something but I've never really used one).

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 Post subject: Re: The most atrocious SM dub of all time
PostPosted: Mon Dec 18, 2017 12:28 am 
Luna Crescens
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redblade7 wrote:
I'm sure Albanians think non-Albanian dubbers' accents are atrocious too.


Well, I didn't mean accents. If you read my post, you would know the reason I said the dub was atrocious is they are screwing the BGMs really bad. Like adding parts from the opening song to the transformations.
But if you want a opinion about the voices and acting, they are actually unfitting and subpar respectively.

About Nicole Thualt, the first latin spanish voice actor for Tuxedo Mask said that during his days in the US, it came to his knowledge that she was also in charge of the French version. I never ran across another evidence of her supposed involvement, but I know the French dub was also cheap and originally didn't include Sailor Stars. Any french fan that could clarify this?


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 Post subject: Re: The most atrocious SM dub of all time
PostPosted: Mon Dec 18, 2017 12:41 am 
Luna
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Mitsukara wrote:
LifeGaveMeLemons wrote:
Roland’s book


Roland Parliament, voice actor of "Melvin" Umino, wrote a book about the DiC dub production??

*looks him up directly on Wikimoon instead of just the Umino article*

Ah, he was the voice director for the first 65 episodes (which means DiC only, and dropping out during the Black Moon arc I guess), and also Rhett Butler/"Hercules" (Man, I would totally watch Rhett Butler: Journey No Densetsu if it existed (Because of Hercules: The Legendary Journeys, you see)). And a few other voices.

But still, he wrote a book about this? Or was it more of a general autobiography of his career that just happened to mention Sailor Moon? And he was still involved in the production I guess even when he stopped being the director, since he voiced some Metro Director rando in S and I think he was still Melvin? (What is the name of this book, and is it available to read online anywhere?)

Also, it's kinda awesome that the voice director himself played Umino. Now I'm picturing the DiC dub as Umino's names-changed-to-protect-the-innocent fanfiction about his own life. That's why only the parts about Naru/"Molly" are accurate. And the Shitennou's names are also changed to to protect the innocent which is why they're spelled/pronounced wrong and why there's "Malachite"! Only the famous superhero names and good old Queen Barrel are unchanged, because she's not exactly innocent. It all makes sense, I swear, no crackpot theories here.



He was voice director for the majority of the 65 syndicated episodes but Tracey Moore did the first 10. John Stocker took over for the lost episodes and the movies. Then Thault who was a producer from the beginning took over for the episodes under Cloverway’s regime.


His book reflections is available for cheap like $5 with itunes. I plan on getting it sometime but just reading the sample was fascinating enough like my aforementioned comment about Thault not liking Moore doing multiple takes because money. Or apparently even in those days although DiC oversaw production they pretty much left Optimum be for day to day operations.


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 Post subject: Re: The most atrocious SM dub of all time
PostPosted: Mon Dec 18, 2017 1:09 am 
Aurorae Lunares
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Mitsukara wrote:
So I see! It sounds pretty intriguing, as I think I'm more interested in the behind-the-scenes of the DiC dub than in the dub itself. I might buy the book sometime down the road when I've got my housing situation figured out. Especially if I ever have a kindle, since downloading it for that really cheap (I wonder if the kindle format is readable without an actual kindle? I always thought they just used PDFs or something but I've never really used one).
If you can't afford to buy the book right now, ANNCast also did an interview with Roland Parliament a few years ago that covers some of the topics in his book that's worth listening to and you'll learn a lot of interesting behind the scenes info about the dub from it. https://www.animenewsnetwork.com/anncas ... -14/.77636

Quote:
About Nicole Thualt, the first latin spanish voice actor for Tuxedo Mask said that during his days in the US, it came to his knowledge that she was also in charge of the French version. I never ran across another evidence of her supposed involvement, but I know the French dub was also cheap and originally didn't include Sailor Stars. Any french fan that could clarify this?
I couldn't find any info confirming Nicole Thault's involvement with the French dub but it would make sense to me. Wikipedia says that Cloverway does make anime dubs for French releases. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cloverway_Inc. Wikimoon also says Haruka's nickname for Usagi in the French dub is "Face de Lune" which translates to Moon Face which would explain where Amara's "Moon Face" nickname for Serena in the Cloverway dub came from. http://wikimoon.org/index.php?title=Sai ... nce#Trivia


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 Post subject: Re: The most atrocious SM dub of all time
PostPosted: Mon Dec 18, 2017 5:44 pm 
Luna Crescens
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Hearing about these horrid dubs made me appreciate the Russian one more.


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 Post subject: Re: The most atrocious SM dub of all time
PostPosted: Mon Dec 18, 2017 7:15 pm 
Columnae Creationis
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Zyvik wrote:
Hearing about these horrid dubs made me appreciate the Russian one more.

As I understand, the Russian one is, strictly speaking, not even a dub, but only a VO like that in imported foreign documentaries. lol

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 Post subject: Re: The most atrocious SM dub of all time
PostPosted: Mon Dec 18, 2017 8:08 pm 
Luna Crescens
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Rika-Chicchi wrote:
Zyvik wrote:
Hearing about these horrid dubs made me appreciate the Russian one more.

As I understand, the Russian one is, strictly speaking, not even a dub, but only a VO like that in imported foreign documentaries. lol


Yes, but I actually prefer these kind of 'dubs.' I didn't have to get used to the original voices since I already heard them behind the VO. Plus it's one of the few dubs that didn't have any heavy censorship.


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 Post subject: Re: The most atrocious SM dub of all time
PostPosted: Wed Dec 20, 2017 12:53 am 
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I'm not sure how the Korean dub made any sense since... they skipped so many episodes. The voice acting was great, and apparently the script wasn't too bad, but it was slashed to bits.


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