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Dub vs Sub:Why do many fans hate on both dubs?
Subbed 30%  30%  [ 3 ]
Dubbed 30%  30%  [ 3 ]
Both 40%  40%  [ 4 ]
Total votes : 10
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 Post subject: Dub vs Sub:Why do some fans hate on the dubs (both)?
PostPosted: Sat Sep 23, 2017 12:44 am 
Luna Crescens
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So what I mean by Dub vs Sub, the first part of the question, is which do you prefer (unless you’re like me who likes both), and why. As for the second part of the question, why do many Sailor Moon fans not only hate on the DIC dub, but the Viz dub as well? I’ve seen his type of hate for dubs for several animes.


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 Post subject: Re: Dub vs Sub:Why do some fans hate on the dubs (both)?
PostPosted: Sun Sep 24, 2017 12:21 am 
Lumen Cinereum
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Cierra Moon wrote:
So what I mean by Dub vs Sub, the first part of the question, is which do you prefer (unless you’re like me who likes both), and why. As for the second part of the question, why do many Sailor Moon fans not only hate on the DIC dub, but the Viz dub as well? I’ve seen his type of hate for dubs for several animes.


I don't understand this poll, does "Dubbed" mean "I like Viz but not DiC/Cloverway", "Subbed" mean "I hate all dubs", and "Both" mean "I like both DiC/Cloverway and Viz"?

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 Post subject: Re: Dub vs Sub:Why do some fans hate on the dubs (both)?
PostPosted: Sun Sep 24, 2017 7:01 am 
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Speaking me personally I prefer the Viz dub above all as it is uncut on the most part and in a language I can understand. However I prefer the Sub over the DiC and Cloverway dub for the latter two being edited and cut.

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 Post subject: Re: Dub vs Sub:Why do some fans hate on the dubs (both)?
PostPosted: Sun Sep 24, 2017 10:19 am 
Aurorae Lunares
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MariaTenebre wrote:
Speaking me personally I prefer the Viz dub above all as it is uncut on the most part and in a language I can understand. However I prefer the Sub over the DiC and Cloverway dub for the latter two being edited and cut.

^^^
That's more or less me. I do still have my DiC DVDs bit with Viz now it reigns supreme and the subs are a close second.

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 Post subject: Re: Dub vs Sub:Why do some fans hate on the dubs (both)?
PostPosted: Sun Sep 24, 2017 12:17 pm 
Solaris Luna
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To answer what I think is the OP's (second) question, some people are fanatical purists and hate any dub simply because it's not the Japanese original.

To answer the first question, I love the Japanese version and the DiC dub equally. They're both entertaining and flawed in their own ways, so watching either version presents a unique experience that is equally wonderful and maddening. The CWi dub of S and SuperS is okay, but I don't have any special fondness for it (the S dub because it was wildly inconsistent and the voice acting wasn't great, and the SuperS dub simply because I'm not fond of that season to begin with).

However, I cannot stand the Viz dub. The voice acting and writing are dreadful. If some fans enjoy the new dub, cool. But it's not for me.

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 Post subject: Re: Dub vs Sub:Why do some fans hate on the dubs (both)?
PostPosted: Sun Sep 24, 2017 7:58 pm 
Luna Crescens
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redblade7 wrote:
Cierra Moon wrote:
So what I mean by Dub vs Sub, the first part of the question, is which do you prefer (unless you’re like me who likes both), and why. As for the second part of the question, why do many Sailor Moon fans not only hate on the DIC dub, but the Viz dub as well? I’ve seen his type of hate for dubs for several animes.


I don't understand this poll, does "Dubbed" mean "I like Viz but not DiC/Cloverway", "Subbed" mean "I hate all dubs", and "Both" mean "I like both DiC/Cloverway and Viz"?


Dubbed- means any dub (Viz or DIC or Cloverway)
Subbed-if you just prefer the original Japanese voices
Both- if you like both sub and dub
That’s the first part of the question


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 Post subject: Re: Dub vs Sub:Why do some fans hate on the dubs (both)?
PostPosted: Sun Sep 24, 2017 10:12 pm 
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Why there is no option in the poll to hate all dubs and untranslated originals without any discrimination? :o

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 Post subject: Re: Dub vs Sub:Why do some fans hate on the dubs (both)?
PostPosted: Tue Sep 26, 2017 9:05 pm 
Solaris Luna
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MementoNepenthe wrote:
To answer what I think is the OP's (second) question, some people are fanatical purists and hate any dub simply because it's not the Japanese original. I love the Japanese version and the DiC dub equally. However, I cannot stand the Viz dub. The voice acting and writing are dreadful. If some fans enjoy the new dub, cool. But it's not for me.



Yes, there are some people who are extreme purists espiecially anime fans who love the original Japanese version to the point they outright refuse to that same series in a different language. By the way, MementoNepenthe, I think's great you love the DIC dub.

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 Post subject: Re: Dub vs Sub:Why do some fans hate on the dubs (both)?
PostPosted: Thu Sep 28, 2017 2:46 am 
Lumen Cinereum
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Cierra Moon wrote:
redblade7 wrote:
Cierra Moon wrote:
So what I mean by Dub vs Sub, the first part of the question, is which do you prefer (unless you’re like me who likes both), and why. As for the second part of the question, why do many Sailor Moon fans not only hate on the DIC dub, but the Viz dub as well? I’ve seen his type of hate for dubs for several animes.


I don't understand this poll, does "Dubbed" mean "I like Viz but not DiC/Cloverway", "Subbed" mean "I hate all dubs", and "Both" mean "I like both DiC/Cloverway and Viz"?


Dubbed- means any dub (Viz or DIC or Cloverway)
Subbed-if you just prefer the original Japanese voices
Both- if you like both sub and dub
That’s the first part of the question


I went with Dubbed. My only experience is Viz and a few DiC/Cloverway clips (and a DiC episode when I noticed the equivalent in Viz was unusually not for kids, and DiC apparently near completely rewrote it), but from the DiC/Cloverway clips I've seen, I dislike the voice actors, but the music and sound effects were far better than Viz.

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 Post subject: Re: Dub vs Sub:Why do some fans hate on the dubs (both)?
PostPosted: Thu Sep 28, 2017 6:45 am 
Luna Nova
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I don't really hate dubs, but I wonder why would anyone prefer it instead of enjoying the original voices.

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 Post subject: Re: Dub vs Sub:Why do some fans hate on the dubs (both)?
PostPosted: Thu Sep 28, 2017 7:33 am 
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I say watch the version you like most if it's dic or cwi fine if it's viz great, sub? absolutely

Every fan is different and has their own taste so what if it's not the same as your own or the majority, you have your favorite and they have their's no need to force others to like one over the other because of popular opinion.

Me? I love the sub most but I like viz dic and cwi too

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 Post subject: Re: Dub vs Sub:Why do some fans hate on the dubs (both)?
PostPosted: Thu Sep 28, 2017 11:05 am 
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I think fans should support one another.

"Like the VIZ dub?" "Oh, I am so happy you have a dub you like!"

"Like the Dic dub?" "Okay, I don't like it, but I will sign a petition and try to convince a distributor to release it."

"Don't like dubs?" "Well, you can watch the show in Japanese!"

"Do you like Crystal?" "I really hope we get more information about the films soon."

"Don't like Crystal?" "Well, you don't have to watch it!"

It is simple like that.

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 Post subject: Re: Dub vs Sub:Why do some fans hate on the dubs (both)?
PostPosted: Thu Sep 28, 2017 4:34 pm 
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I personally grew up with the DIC/ Cloverway dubs and so I will always have a small soft spot for them, but I also immensely dislike them because of the alterations to the storyline, the name changes and the censorship, and I feel like something is always lost with a dub, unless they change the wording which also changes the story. Plus I don't like the way Dic (and the merchandise that went along with the Dic dub) kind of tried to change it into something slightly more bubble-gummy and American- I can't quite articulate this but I hope that gave a general idea of what I mean lol. I also really don't like ''Sailor Scouts'' as opposed to Sailor Guardians or Sailor Soldiers. 'Scout' kind of makes it childish, whereas I see them as definitely being Guardians or Soldiers.

ONE thing I will give the Dic dub is that I really loved Moon's transformation/attack music! The Japanese transformation music is iconic and I wouldn't want to change it, but it's also pretty cheesy imo. Dic nailed it on their music.

Haven't even watched the Viz dub (though I did accidentally rent the R Movie on Amazon without realizing it was the Dub and I immediately canceled the purchase- and I'm now looking for all of the old DVDs so that I can watch them subbed) so I can't say much to that, but the little bit I did see was cringey for me.

I just really don't enjoy dubs and would much rather have subtitles in the original language, but I don't fault people for enjoying dubs!

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 Post subject: Re: Dub vs Sub:Why do some fans hate on the dubs (both)?
PostPosted: Thu Sep 28, 2017 6:30 pm 
Lumen Cinereum
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Serena-Hime wrote:
I also really don't like ''Sailor Scouts'' as opposed to Sailor Guardians or Sailor Soldiers. 'Scout' kind of makes it childish, whereas I see them as definitely being Guardians or Soldiers.


"Sailor Scout" makes more sense in English than "Sailor Soldier" does.

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 Post subject: Re: Dub vs Sub:Why do some fans hate on the dubs (both)?
PostPosted: Thu Sep 28, 2017 8:40 pm 
Luna Nova
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redblade7 wrote:
Serena-Hime wrote:
I also really don't like ''Sailor Scouts'' as opposed to Sailor Guardians or Sailor Soldiers. 'Scout' kind of makes it childish, whereas I see them as definitely being Guardians or Soldiers.


"Sailor Scout" makes more sense in English than "Sailor Soldier" does.


Care to elaborate? I'm not really talking about specific meanings, I just think 'scout' sounds vaguely childish and less serious than Soldier/Guardian, but maybe that's just because i always think of Boy/GirlScouts or some kind of messenger. :lol:

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 Post subject: Re: Dub vs Sub:Why do some fans hate on the dubs (both)?
PostPosted: Thu Sep 28, 2017 9:19 pm 
Lumen Cinereum
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Serena-Hime wrote:
redblade7 wrote:
Serena-Hime wrote:
I also really don't like ''Sailor Scouts'' as opposed to Sailor Guardians or Sailor Soldiers. 'Scout' kind of makes it childish, whereas I see them as definitely being Guardians or Soldiers.


"Sailor Scout" makes more sense in English than "Sailor Soldier" does.


Care to elaborate? I'm not really talking about specific meanings, I just think 'scout' sounds vaguely childish and less serious than Soldier/Guardian, but maybe that's just because i always think of Boy/GirlScouts or some kind of messenger. :lol:


The two words "Sailor Soldier" combined just sounds silly in spoken English. A "scout" is a position in the navy, and there are "soldiers" and "sailors" in the navy as well.

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 Post subject: Re: Dub vs Sub:Why do some fans hate on the dubs (both)?
PostPosted: Thu Sep 28, 2017 9:31 pm 
Luna Nova
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redblade7 wrote:

The two words "Sailor Soldier" combined just sounds silly in spoken English. A "scout" is a position in the navy, and there are "soldiers" and "sailors" in the navy as well.


Fair enough, I see where you're coming from. I never associate the navy with Sailor Moon ( despite the inspiration in the costumes) so it doesn't sound weird in my head.

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 Post subject: Re: Dub vs Sub:Why do some fans hate on the dubs (both)?
PostPosted: Thu Sep 28, 2017 9:48 pm 
Lumen Cinereum
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Serena-Hime wrote:
redblade7 wrote:

The two words "Sailor Soldier" combined just sounds silly in spoken English. A "scout" is a position in the navy, and there are "soldiers" and "sailors" in the navy as well.


Fair enough, I see where you're coming from. I never associate the navy with Sailor Moon ( despite the inspiration in the costumes) so it doesn't sound weird in my head.


https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Japanese_ ... ailor_fuku

Quote:
The sailor fuku (セーラー服 sērā fuku, Sailor outfits) is a common style of uniform worn by female middle school students, traditionally by high school students, and occasionally, elementary school students. It was introduced as a school uniform in 1920 in Heian Jogakuin (平安女学院)[4] and 1921 by the principal of Fukuoka Jo Gakuin University (福岡女学院),[5] Elizabeth Lee. It was modeled after the uniform used by the British Royal Navy at the time, which Lee had experienced as an exchange student in the United Kingdom.

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 Post subject: Re: Dub vs Sub:Why do some fans hate on the dubs (both)?
PostPosted: Thu Sep 28, 2017 9:51 pm 
Luna Nova
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redblade7 wrote:
Serena-Hime wrote:
redblade7 wrote:

The two words "Sailor Soldier" combined just sounds silly in spoken English. A "scout" is a position in the navy, and there are "soldiers" and "sailors" in the navy as well.


Fair enough, I see where you're coming from. I never associate the navy with Sailor Moon ( despite the inspiration in the costumes) so it doesn't sound weird in my head.


https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Japanese_ ... ailor_fuku

Quote:
The sailor fuku (セーラー服 sērā fuku, Sailor outfits) is a common style of uniform worn by female middle school students, traditionally by high school students, and occasionally, elementary school students. It was introduced as a school uniform in 1920 in Heian Jogakuin (平安女学院)[4] and 1921 by the principal of Fukuoka Jo Gakuin University (福岡女学院),[5] Elizabeth Lee. It was modeled after the uniform used by the British Royal Navy at the time, which Lee had experienced as an exchange student in the United Kingdom.


Thanks, I actually knew that though lol- I said despite that, I don't go straight to 'navy' when I think of Sailor Moon/ Sailor Soldiers, so the term doesn't come out strange to me. The outfit is inspired by a school uniform, which was inspired by navy uniforms- it's so far removed from the original concept/meaning, now being something associated with being cute/being a teenager, that I don't find it strange to say ''Sailor Soldier''- unless the Sailor Soldiers are actually in the navy. :lol: 'Sailor' is a reference to the outfit, 'Soldier' is what they are- at least in my mind.

Edited for further clarification.

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 Post subject: Re: Dub vs Sub:Why do some fans hate on the dubs (both)?
PostPosted: Tue Oct 24, 2017 11:36 am 
Aurorae Lunares
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Generally speaking I prefer to watch Sailor Moon subtitled because Japanese is the language it was originally intended to be viewed in. I tend to watch most anime subtitled in general with only a few expections. The Japanese version also has some of my favorite anime voice actors like Aya Hisakawa and Tohru Furuya. I do enjoy the Viz dub a lot though and I think the Viz cast is very talented at what they do and I think the Viz dub is one of the best dubs I've seen. I still appreciate the DiC dub for introducing me to the series and would love to own it one day but I mainly enjoy it out of nostalgic value. As for why a lot of fans hate the DiC dub, mostly it's because of all the censorship and localization and skipping episodes and changing the original music. Some fans also don't like the original dub cast and find them to be miscast in their roles.

To be honest though, I feel like hatred to the DiC dub has mostly died off and there's a lot of nostalgic love for it now, if the high prices of used DVDs on eBay are any indication. If anything, I feel like more fans seem to hate the Viz dub than they do DiC. A lot of the hate for the Viz dub seems to come from two camps. You have some hardcore purist fans who don't like the Viz dub because they sometimes takes liberties with the script by inserting their original jokes into the dub or they don't like the way they pronounce the Japanese names. The other camp seems to mostly be fans who grew up with the original dub and prefer the DiC music and cast over the Viz version. Then you have some fans who simply don't like the voice cast and find them to be too plain sounding.


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 Post subject: Re: Dub vs Sub:Why do some fans hate on the dubs (both)?
PostPosted: Tue Oct 24, 2017 7:27 pm 
Aurorae Lunares
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Neon Genesis wrote:
Generally speaking I prefer to watch Sailor Moon subtitled because Japanese is the language it was originally intended to be viewed in. I tend to watch most anime subtitled in general with only a few expections. The Japanese version also has some of my favorite anime voice actors like Aya Hisakawa and Tohru Furuya. I do enjoy the Viz dub a lot though and I think the Viz cast is very talented at what they do and I think the Viz dub is one of the best dubs I've seen. I still appreciate the DiC dub for introducing me to the series and would love to own it one day but I mainly enjoy it out of nostalgic value. As for why a lot of fans hate the DiC dub, mostly it's because of all the censorship and localization and skipping episodes and changing the original music. Some fans also don't like the original dub cast and find them to be miscast in their roles.

To be honest though, I feel like hatred to the DiC dub has mostly died off and there's a lot of nostalgic love for it now, if the high prices of used DVDs on eBay are any indication. If anything, I feel like more fans seem to hate the Viz dub than they do DiC. A lot of the hate for the Viz dub seems to come from two camps. You have some hardcore purist fans who don't like the Viz dub because they sometimes takes liberties with the script by inserting their original jokes into the dub or they don't like the way they pronounce the Japanese names. The other camp seems to mostly be fans who grew up with the original dub and prefer the DiC music and cast over the Viz version. Then you have some fans who simply don't like the voice cast and find them to be too plain sounding.

That's quite interesting. Because I grew up with dubs like the DiC dub I tend to gravitate towards dubs myself, however I do watch some of the more recent anime subbed and I don't mind that at all. In terms of Sailor Moon I do absolutely want dubs because again I grew up with it, my sister also grew up with the dub but she's also slightly deaf because she plays the trombone in community orchestras so I put on the dubs. I guess for her it's either/or.
As for the dubs I don't really get the hate against each other, I mean I do understand it but I just can't get unset over it. Watching the cut scenes and episodes from the Vis dub is just a huge bonus for me that I don't get upset at DiC for, watching them now I actually get why they were cut in the first place; upshirking, cat kicking, supernatural themes, at that time the American conservative audience would have been quite upset with all this. I don't like censoring content in that it changes the context but at least now I totally understand why it took place. As for the Viz dub, I think that they kept very very true to the original script, I really don't mind a little creative liscence here and there if it's both infrequent and unimportant, which seems to be the case here.
And I'm sorry but no self respecting Sailor Moon fan cannot appreciate the moment in the Doom Tree arc when Makoto argues that playing Cinderella requires a large..................chest. :lol: No one who like me had only ever seen the DiC dub cannot not laugh at that line!! :mischief:

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 Post subject: Re: Dub vs Sub:Why do some fans hate on the dubs (both)?
PostPosted: Tue Oct 24, 2017 11:04 pm 
Aurorae Lunares
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I think the main cause for the contention between the different versions is there's no easy official way to watch the DiC version and a lot of fans are into Sailor Moon for the nostalgic value rather than faithfulness to the original. I feel like if somehow the DiC version was officially re-released on video, there would be less reason to argue about the Viz dub.


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 Post subject: Re: Dub vs Sub:Why do some fans hate on the dubs (both)?
PostPosted: Mon Nov 06, 2017 10:01 pm 
Luna Crescens
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Prince Rose wrote:
I say watch the version you like most if it's dic or cwi fine if it's viz great, sub? absolutely

Every fan is different and has their own taste so what if it's not the same as your own or the majority, you have your favorite and they have their's no need to force others to like one over the other because of popular opinion.

Me? I love the sub most but I like viz dic and cwi too

I’m not bashing others opinion. I’m just asking why do some people bash people for liking or preferring the dubs over subs


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 Post subject: Re: Dub vs Sub:Why do some fans hate on the dubs (both)?
PostPosted: Mon Nov 06, 2017 10:51 pm 
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The first time I ever saw the show, I was a small child and I'm pretty sure it was the DiC dub, but I barely remember that because I was really young and only saw it a few times (I believe I saw Jadeite's last episode though, because I remembered the airport).

Then when I watched the show properly, I watched it all subbed. (I default to doing this because I like to hear the original acting and get as close as I can to the original intent.) As such I'm far more familiar with that version, having seen all 200 episodes that way.

Since then, I've watched a few scattered episodes of the DiC dub, and a tiny bit of the Cloverway dub, and one episode (23, the next-to-last Nephrite episode) in a newer dub.

Overall I still prefer the subtitled version. The newer dub was quite competent though (but it's a little odd that Nephrite, specifically, sounds like he's 60 years old for some reason?) and is basically fine. The cloverway dub seemed to be heavily rewriting the dialogue too much for my taste, though.

As for the DiC version... the exhaustive, constant editing, altering and removing so many scenes and changing the timing, putting bits of episode 44 at the beginning of episode 1, and so on- just really feels like needless alteration that messes up the pacing. (Not to mention the episodes that were skipped entirely, or edited to oblivion like the season 1 finale.) On top of that, they often recharacterize dialog to the point where it's like they're trying to tell a different story. It feels like they didn't really respect the directors of the original product at all ^^' Though they kept the Nephrite story surprisingly very intact.

The censorship I can understand- it would never have made it on to TV in 1990s America during daytime hours (or perhaps at all) without that. But that doesn't mean I have to like the censorship :) That said.. when they cut the Mary Poppins-esque parasol falling scene from the episode with the Diamond Kingdom princess, they left in a scene where Sailor Mercury and Sailor Mars straight-up jump down off a balcony... isn't that an even worse idea than jumping down with a parasol??

But that said, I don't exactly hate the DiC version, and I (eventually) want to finish watching their version of season 1 for my own historical interest. I can certainly see why people could see that version first and still love the show, and I can at least imagine how some people would feel more fond or sentimental for it. It also occasionally has little changes that are cool.

For two examples of good DiC dialogue, I like the bit in episode 23 where Luna is scolding Serena when she's thinking about backing down on warning Molly, and Serena's response is "I always say stuff like that!"; for another, I like when Molly tells 'Neflyte' "We'll get a doctor!", because that's a very real sort of thing to say in that situation.

I also like the DiC name "Star Crystal" (as opposed to Kurozuishou, "Black Crystal", though I usually do call it that for authenticity), and while I find 'Moon Stick' a very amusing and memorable name (befitting Usagi's goofiness), I will admit 'Crescent Moon Wand' sounds much better. So I can see how there's little tradeoffs in the whole thing.

I don't think any of the versions are outright terrible, but if I was recommending the show to a new viewer, I'd start with subtitles or (if they strongly preferred dubs) the newer dubs, and I find myself rewatching the subtitled ones more, too.


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 Post subject: Re: Dub vs Sub:Why do some fans hate on the dubs (both)?
PostPosted: Wed Nov 08, 2017 12:24 am 
Luna Crescens
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I voted for subbed because it's just a personal preference. I have watched the ViZ dub and grew up watching the CWi dub (don't really remember watching the DiC dub because I was super young when it was being shown on TV) and I loved both versions I just prefer to watch the show with its original Japanese dialogue.

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 Post subject: Re: Dub vs Sub:Why do some fans hate on the dubs (both)?
PostPosted: Wed Nov 08, 2017 3:13 am 
Planeta
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At this point, nobody in this fandom can complain about subs and dubs, with the exception of those who grew up with and like the DIC dub.

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 Post subject: Re: Dub vs Sub:Why do some fans hate on the dubs (both)?
PostPosted: Sun Nov 12, 2017 4:47 am 
Aurorae Lunares
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Gunslinger wrote:
I don't really hate dubs, but I wonder why would anyone prefer it instead of enjoying the original voices.


One of my friends is dyslexic and so he can't read subtitles. He can only watch anime in English. So for people like my friend, I hope you can see why they would prefer dubs.

To address the thread itself...

I almost always prefer the Japanese language version of Sailor Moon. The DiC dub has a special place in my heart as I grew up with it, and I revisit it from time to time, but it really made some awful edits -- and at the end of the day, it's an incomplete product. I generally dislike what I've heard from the Viz dub but that has more to do with me not liking any of the casting choices -- still, that said, I will check out the whole thing someday and revise my opinion then.

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 Post subject: Re: Dub vs Sub:Why do some fans hate on the dubs (both)?
PostPosted: Sun Nov 12, 2017 6:38 pm 
Luna
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I don’t get the poll. Your question is why some fans hate on both dubs and then the poll is asking if fans like subbed or dubbed seems like two different topics to me.


Anyways I don’t think there are too many fans who dislike both dubs. For the most part the fandom seems split between those who like the sub but also like the Viz dub for being faithful and despise the Canadian dub for...not and those who like the sub but also like the old dub (at least DiC) and dislike the Viz dub for being lacklustre in its performance (there’s also other reasons Viz’s handling of the license pisses me off but that’s neither here nor there)


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