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 Post subject: Re: While I Am Proud to be a Moonie, I Hate this Fandom At Times
PostPosted: Wed Nov 22, 2017 1:32 am 
Luna Nova
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I've never heard or found any people who claim if you like Crystal you're "misogynistic/anti-women/homophobic", but if there are, screw them.

And yes, while I'm not a big fan of Crystal overall (but do like season 3) I don't mind if people like it as long as they're not rabid and they acknowledge it's not perfect, even I know the original anime isn't perfect (SuperS for one thing).


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 Post subject: Re: While I Am Proud to be a Moonie, I Hate this Fandom At Times
PostPosted: Wed Nov 22, 2017 1:43 am 
Luna
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I’ve never seen anyone call Crystal fans misogynistic/homophobic (I’ve heard DiC fans called homophobic though) I myself have argued against Crystal’s sexism or at least failure in delivering female enpowerment (when you reduce the four Sailor guardians character development in the first arc to their relationships with the four kings) but I wouldn’t call fans of Crystal sexist or misogynistic anymore than I would accuse Eminem fans of misogyny


I don’t think Crystal is actively sending harmful messages or that it’s fans are bad. Hell, my sister who got me into Sailor Moon when it aired on USA Network prefers Crystal for its faster pacing and she preferred the greater emphasis on Usagi and Mamoru’s love story (she never read the manga so Crystal’s strengths stood out to her more I think)


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 Post subject: Re: While I Am Proud to be a Moonie, I Hate this Fandom At Times
PostPosted: Wed Nov 22, 2017 2:10 am 
Aurorae Lunares
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LifeGaveMeLemons wrote:
I’ve never seen anyone call Crystal fans misogynistic/homophobic (I’ve heard DiC fans called homophobic though) I myself have argued against Crystal’s sexism or at least failure in delivering female enpowerment (when you reduce the four Sailor guardians character development in the first arc to their relationships with the four kings) but I wouldn’t call fans of Crystal sexist or misogynistic anymore than I would accuse Eminem fans of misogyny


I don’t think Crystal is actively sending harmful messages or that it’s fans are bad. Hell, my sister who got me into Sailor Moon when it aired on USA Network prefers Crystal for its faster pacing and she preferred the greater emphasis on Usagi and Mamoru’s love story (she never read the manga so Crystal’s strengths stood out to her more I think)

I don't think Crystal is sexist at all. I think the senshi x shitenou could been better ,but having to me wasn't bad at all. This what Naoko kinda intended anyway. The group I mostly rave about is from tumbrl. Well Tumbr has all the bad people in any fanbase. as for female empowerment. I might get my head turned, but I personally don't think sailor moon is about female empowerment at all. I think its main thing is about Usagi . Her journey, and her life as a sailor gaurdian . I also have no problem with 90 s fans. It s just those that treat 90 s anime perfect, and just nitpick on crystal.(I mean really nitpick or say something that is just not true) The ones that also like there a better fan ,but that s for any fanbase .


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 Post subject: Re: While I Am Proud to be a Moonie, I Hate this Fandom At Times
PostPosted: Wed Nov 22, 2017 3:26 am 
Luna Nova
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imaginationgirl wrote:
LifeGaveMeLemons wrote:
I’ve never seen anyone call Crystal fans misogynistic/homophobic (I’ve heard DiC fans called homophobic though) I myself have argued against Crystal’s sexism or at least failure in delivering female enpowerment (when you reduce the four Sailor guardians character development in the first arc to their relationships with the four kings) but I wouldn’t call fans of Crystal sexist or misogynistic anymore than I would accuse Eminem fans of misogyny


I don’t think Crystal is actively sending harmful messages or that it’s fans are bad. Hell, my sister who got me into Sailor Moon when it aired on USA Network prefers Crystal for its faster pacing and she preferred the greater emphasis on Usagi and Mamoru’s love story (she never read the manga so Crystal’s strengths stood out to her more I think)

I don't think Crystal is sexist at all. I think the senshi x shitenou could been better ,but having to me wasn't bad at all. This what Naoko kinda intended anyway. The group I mostly rave about is from tumbrl. Well Tumbr has all the bad people in any fanbase. as for female empowerment. I might get my head turned, but I personally don't think sailor moon is about female empowerment at all. I think its main thing is about Usagi . Her journey, and her life as a sailor gaurdian . I also have no problem with 90 s fans. It s just those that treat 90 s anime perfect, and just nitpick on crystal.(I mean really nitpick or say something that is just not true) The ones that also like there a better fan ,but that s for any fanbase .


I had thought Crystal was sexist (and kinda still do) but it was because I felt it wasn't living up to its theme song to me at all and it made them look terrible considering Tuxedo Mask did have to save her, but that's me. Frankly I think it's about three things, Sailor Moon is, about her journey and life as a Sailor, her friends' journeys and lives and female empowerment.


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 Post subject: Re: While I Am Proud to be a Moonie, I Hate this Fandom At Times
PostPosted: Wed Nov 22, 2017 5:20 am 
Aurorae Lunares
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SailorSpySedna wrote:
imaginationgirl wrote:
LifeGaveMeLemons wrote:
I’ve never seen anyone call Crystal fans misogynistic/homophobic (I’ve heard DiC fans called homophobic though) I myself have argued against Crystal’s sexism or at least failure in delivering female enpowerment (when you reduce the four Sailor guardians character development in the first arc to their relationships with the four kings) but I wouldn’t call fans of Crystal sexist or misogynistic anymore than I would accuse Eminem fans of misogyny


I don’t think Crystal is actively sending harmful messages or that it’s fans are bad. Hell, my sister who got me into Sailor Moon when it aired on USA Network prefers Crystal for its faster pacing and she preferred the greater emphasis on Usagi and Mamoru’s love story (she never read the manga so Crystal’s strengths stood out to her more I think)

I don't think Crystal is sexist at all. I think the senshi x shitenou could been better ,but having to me wasn't bad at all. This what Naoko kinda intended anyway. The group I mostly rave about is from tumbrl. Well Tumbr has all the bad people in any fanbase. as for female empowerment. I might get my head turned, but I personally don't think sailor moon is about female empowerment at all. I think its main thing is about Usagi . Her journey, and her life as a sailor gaurdian . I also have no problem with 90 s fans. It s just those that treat 90 s anime perfect, and just nitpick on crystal.(I mean really nitpick or say something that is just not true) The ones that also like there a better fan ,but that s for any fanbase .


I had thought Crystal was sexist (and kinda still do) but it was because I felt it wasn't living up to its theme song to me at all and it made them look terrible considering Tuxedo Mask did have to save her, but that's me. Frankly I think it's about three things, Sailor Moon is, about her journey and life as a Sailor, her friends' journeys and lives and female empowerment
.

I don't see how being saved by Tuxedo Mask is sexist . She saved him as well.Its more like he saves her, and she saves him.Then again I don't have a problem with female characters getting saved by male characters in general.I think in my opinion in the 90 s anime is more about the girl's friendship. Why in the manga it was mostly about Usagi.It s not bad its just different version's focus on different things. Which is good cause it could appease all kind of fans.


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 Post subject: Re: While I Am Proud to be a Moonie, I Hate this Fandom At Times
PostPosted: Wed Nov 22, 2017 6:03 am 
Luna Nova
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It was claimed "we are not helpless girls that need men's protection" but Usagi at times was made out to be helpless in Crystal, at one point Zoisite just grabbed her arm and that was enough for her to cry out for help from Mamoru, for one scene. Kinda understand what I'm talking about (sorry if I'm still not clear, but I do understand your points)? :(


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 Post subject: Re: While I Am Proud to be a Moonie, I Hate this Fandom At Times
PostPosted: Wed Nov 22, 2017 7:15 am 
Luna
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I recall at least one article noting the guardian senshi spent more time knocked out or in peril than they did kicking butt. Like they actually timed it. That’s one of the big arguments for Crystal being sexist.


And again the whole “let’s remove ALL the guardian senshi’s badass stuff in favor of relationship crap” who needs Mars burning Jadeite, Jupiter frying Nephrite, and Venus stabbing Beryl when we could focus on relationships?!?!?


I’m not saying expanding on the Senshi x Shinnentou pairing the manga only lightly suggested is bad but the Senshi’s own individual strengths shouldn’t have been sacrificed to do so.


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 Post subject: Re: While I Am Proud to be a Moonie, I Hate this Fandom At Times
PostPosted: Wed Nov 22, 2017 12:40 pm 
Solaris Luna
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I wouldn't say Crystal is sexist, just really badly written. :lol:

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 Post subject: Re: While I Am Proud to be a Moonie, I Hate this Fandom At Times
PostPosted: Wed Nov 22, 2017 1:40 pm 
Aurorae Lunares
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SailorSpySedna wrote:
It was claimed "we are not helpless girls that need men's protection" but Usagi at times was made out to be helpless in Crystal, at one point Zoisite just grabbed her arm and that was enough for her to cry out for help from Mamoru, for one scene. Kinda understand what I'm talking about (sorry if I'm still not clear, but I do understand your points)? :(

I think were looking to into a song . A song is just a song. Its not meant to be repersentation of the whole show . Its just meant to be a fun song ,but the lyrics are a little wonkey . Another transalatotiojn


(Ah, even girls have a kind of pride they cannot give up
It's to not give up their fates to their princes,
But to fight with their own volition

Shiny Make-up kagayaku yo hoshizora wo atsumete
Tada mamorareru dake no kayowai sonzai ja nai wa

Shiny Make-up, shine! Gather in the starry sky
I'm not a being so frail that I must only be protected

Kanashimi no nami ni yurare ikari no hi ni yakaretemo
Inazuma no you ni mabayuku toa no ai wo chikau
Tatoe ima wa hanarete itemo hitori ja nai yo ne?
Watashi tachi wo tsunagu Moonlight

Even if I'm shaken by a wave of sadness or burnt by a flame of anger
I'll swear a vow of eternal love, dazzlingly like a flash of lightning
Even if we are separated right now, you're not alone, you know?
The Moonlight connects us

Ah onnanoko ni wa muteki no buki ga aru
Sore wa yowasa ni yorisou manazashi to
Subete ukeireru tsuyosa

Ah, girls have some invincible weapons
They are a gentle gaze to embrace weakness
And strength to accept everyone

Shiny Make-up kirameku yo hoshizora ni idakarete
Toki wo koeta kizuna ga watashi ni yuuki wo kureru

Shiny make-up, sparkle! Embrace in the starry sky
Our bonds crossed over time and space to give us courage

Koishikute setsunakute nakitaku naru yo
Aitakute sabishikute kakedashi sou na haato
Kono hiroi uchuu de nando umarekawattemo
Anata ni koi wo suru

I want to cry passionately and painfully
My novice heart is lonely and wants to see you
No matter how many times I'm reborn in this vast universe
I will love you)

As for the Zoisite thing. To me she wanted help. All her friends were down, and there was nothing she could done . He was the only person she knows that could help.In the manga it was similar , except no asking for help. Than SailorVenus came. They really just add another more romantic moment . Still at the end they both got saved by Venus.
As for SXS thing I think its kinda silly to say it took away from the girls . Even without the SXS thing some scenes were still being cut . Crystal still has a development of the girls. Than again Crystal season one is more about the background. SXS was more about the background of the senshis . I do belive they should madee episode 12 a two parter. Than add more flash backs . Like /uI said I a agree S XScould been handle better.


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 Post subject: Re: While I Am Proud to be a Moonie, I Hate this Fandom At Times
PostPosted: Thu Nov 23, 2017 1:53 am 
Luna Nova
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@imaginationgirl

The only thing I can do is respect your opinion, I didn't see any development from the girls at all. :blue:

@MementoNepenthe

Agreed, it's just horrifically written. If there's any anime that's sexist, that would be Virgin Fleet.


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 Post subject: Re: While I Am Proud to be a Moonie, I Hate this Fandom At Times
PostPosted: Thu Nov 23, 2017 2:23 am 
Solaris Luna
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MementoNepenthe wrote:
I wouldn't say Crystal is sexist, just really badly written. :lol:


I have to agree, MementoNepenthe. PGSM is much better written than Crystal. That's all due to Yasuko Kobayashi's writing. Yasuko was a much better writter than Yuji [Kobayahi].

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 Post subject: Re: While I Am Proud to be a Moonie, I Hate this Fandom At Times
PostPosted: Thu Nov 23, 2017 5:07 am 
Luna Nova
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PGSM is awesome from what I've seen of it, and she too also wrote several Sentai shows, like Gingaman, Timeranger, Go-Busters, no wonder.

Yuji...not only did he know nothing about Sailor Moon, personalities seemed to not be his strong suit.


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 Post subject: Re: While I Am Proud to be a Moonie, I Hate this Fandom At Times
PostPosted: Thu Nov 23, 2017 6:07 am 
Yoshi
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I don't really blame him for that.

I blame TOEI execs for their lack of vision and wanting a page for page adaptation of the manga. :o

I guess them TOEI execs wanted that SHITtennou X Sailor pairing was because its a hit among manga fans. Had this been 26 episodes I think S1 would be better. :roll:

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 Post subject: Re: While I Am Proud to be a Moonie, I Hate this Fandom At Times
PostPosted: Thu Nov 23, 2017 6:20 am 
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Unpopular opinion: Crystal wasn't faithful ENOUGH. The changes really messed up the plot, expecially in the first season.

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 Post subject: Re: While I Am Proud to be a Moonie, I Hate this Fandom At Times
PostPosted: Thu Nov 23, 2017 4:21 pm 
Luna Nova
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rgveda99 wrote:
I don't really blame him for that.

I blame TOEI execs for their lack of vision and wanting a page for page adaptation of the manga. :o

I guess them TOEI execs wanted that SHITtennou X Sailor pairing was because its a hit among manga fans. Had this been 26 episodes I think S1 would be better. :roll:


I agree with ya, I also heard Toei probably wanted to try to make a strong friendship that was rushed and Kobayashi had to work, but considering how he mentioned for the Shitennou that "If they are wiped out in split seconds it would be impossible for any of the Guardians (except Usagi) to stand out in the story", and we did see them get wiped out in a split second also, that is also proof he himself had no idea how to characterize the girls correctly.

How I would have done Crystal is have each season be 26 episodes, (I'm starting to hate the whole 13 episode format thing modern anime have), and in it, I would introduce new original characters or villains that weren't in the manga/90's anime, add new unique story elements and new challenges that Usagi, Ami, Minako, Rei, Makoto, Chibi-Usa, Haruka, and Michiru have to go through in what was their first few days, weeks, and months as Sailors Moon, Mercury, Venus, Mars, Jupiter, Chibi Moon, Uranus, and Neptune, all whilst keeping the adventures in the manga. But just doing it one chapter shot by shot, and NOT getting rid of the flaws that the manga has, which is what a proper adaption/reboot of it should do, just makes it look lazy and to me, even pandering to rabid manga purists or something. It's a reason why in my opinion Sailor Moon is a rare example in which it benefits from so called "filler" episodes and a longer pace.

Time Sage wrote:
Unpopular opinion: Crystal wasn't faithful ENOUGH. The changes really messed up the plot, expecially in the first season.


I agree with you, that's what I meant when I said Crystal was also not faithful to the manga, those little changes had a big, bad impact on it and the changes were for the worse.


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 Post subject: Re: While I Am Proud to be a Moonie, I Hate this Fandom At Times
PostPosted: Thu Nov 23, 2017 7:57 pm 
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Time Sage wrote:
Unpopular opinion: Crystal wasn't faithful ENOUGH. The changes really messed up the plot, expecially in the first season.

finally someone who feels how I feel about crystal

it had so much potential which it self is something that bugs me a lot about crystal as well
if only they stuck to what made the manga good instead of doing a half done plot with senshi x shittenou among other changes or dare I say neutering the manga

and no this is not another hate speech on crystal this is my actual opinion

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 Post subject: Re: While I Am Proud to be a Moonie, I Hate this Fandom At Times
PostPosted: Thu Nov 23, 2017 8:41 pm 
Solaris Luna
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@RGveda: I really don't understand why you have Toei in all caps. Are you refering to the animation studio?


@Sedna: 26 episodes seems like a good idea. Though, I like 19 or 20 episodes myself. How about 40 episodes for all 5 seasons? :evillaugh:

@Rose: I feel the same way, Rose!

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Last edited by FloraKiraraHime on Fri Nov 24, 2017 7:01 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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 Post subject: Re: While I Am Proud to be a Moonie, I Hate this Fandom At Times
PostPosted: Fri Nov 24, 2017 2:03 am 
Yoshi
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Prince Rose wrote:
and no this is not another hate speech on crystal this is my actual opinion


Problem is someone misinterprets it as hate speech on crystal. :confused:

It's like the only critique that is acceptable to them are compliments.

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 Post subject: Re: While I Am Proud to be a Moonie, I Hate this Fandom At Times
PostPosted: Fri Nov 24, 2017 11:02 pm 
Luna Nova
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FloraKiraraHime wrote:


@Sedna: 26 episodes seems like a good idea. Though, I like 19 or 20 episodes myself. How about 40 episodes for all 5 seasons? :evillaugh:


LOL, that would be funny, but yeah, more than 13 per season would have worked. At least 20 or more.


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 Post subject: Re: While I Am Proud to be a Moonie, I Hate this Fandom At Times
PostPosted: Sat Nov 25, 2017 9:27 pm 
Solaris Luna
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^ That would be good for expanding on certain elements of the manga.

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 Post subject: Re: While I Am Proud to be a Moonie, I Hate this Fandom At Times
PostPosted: Sun Nov 26, 2017 1:54 am 
Luna Nova
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It would.

Bad news again, another rabid Crystal fanboy attacked me and is spreading false facts/slander on me here: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=c4d-gwR7tbI

Under the first "Devin Noll" comments, it's that Shingo Zaku guy (whom I think I saw somewhere else). Yeah, because I state my opinion and not like Crystal and defend myself from bullying Crystal fans I was "trolling/playing the victim card", and the reason I acted harsh and sometimes insulted rabid Crystal fans was they were the ones attacking and harassing me. God, that guy is such an arrogant, condescending moron who doesn't like reading words that aren't his own (I'd suggest reporting him, he ironically looks like a troll himself). :x

And I'd like to hear where he got his claims on the NicoNico ratings with the whole Hulu thing, as far as I'm concerned and from what I heard from another user, SilenceGlaiveMaster (great user), Hulu was region locked at the time (that WorstAnimeEver guy is another channel of mine).


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 Post subject: Re: While I Am Proud to be a Moonie, I Hate this Fandom At Times
PostPosted: Sun Nov 26, 2017 2:24 am 
Solaris Luna
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SailorSpySedna wrote:
It would.

Bad news again, another rabid Crystal fanboy attacked me and is spreading false facts/slander on me here: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=c4d-gwR7tbI

Under the first "Devin Noll" comments, it's that Shingo Zaku guy (whom I think I saw somewhere else). Yeah, because I state my opinion and not like Crystal I was "trolling", and the reason I acted harsh and sometimes insulted rabid Crystal fans was they were the ones attacking and harassing me. God, that guy is such an arrogant, condescending moron who doesn't like reading words that aren't his own (I'd suggest reporting him). :x

And I'd like to hear where he got his claims on the NicoNico ratings with the whole Hulu thing, as far as I'm concerned and from what I heard from another user, SilenceGlaiveMaster (great user), Hulu was region locked at the time.


I know, I replied to ShingoZaku, I tried to tell him you weren't that "care bear troll". I don't think you are, you seem like a great person. I'll try reporting him.

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 Post subject: Re: While I Am Proud to be a Moonie, I Hate this Fandom At Times
PostPosted: Sun Nov 26, 2017 3:11 am 
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Thanks. I used to have a Care Bears icon (kinda like this picture I drew for fun, also drew others too): http://img11.deviantart.net/b168/i/2015 ... 8tytst.jpg) but changed it.

If he harasses you report him anyway, he thinks I'm a troll? Well to him I say, "I got 5,002 to subscribe to me so I say F*** you, you're not better than me (I'm just irritated right now)." :o

I mean, I did some pretty valid points when defending myself as to why I acted like I did, I'm sick of being treated like crap, like so many others, and once again (though I'm quoting an Amazon comment here), in my opinion (if you disagree with this thing I'm saying about Crystal here that's fine and your opinion's respected, and see, I can respect opinions), if you take all the Sailor Moon stuff from this the first two seasons of Crystal and replace it with a different setting (say, a generic space mecha anime, for instance) and you'll realize that what you're left with is useless, cheap junk that no one will give a crap about. Say what you will about Naoko Takeuchi and Kunihiko Ikuhara, but that woman and that man had imagination. The producers, writers, directors and maybe animators responsible for those seasons had none, and adequately assumed people would love any crap as long as it looked like Sailor Moon, or was like the manga frame by frame, it thinks it doesn't need any of absolutely basic storytelling points because it's being a shot by shot version of the manga. All it needs to do is show do that, add changes to make Moon steal the spotlight and people will be happy. "It's all there", this anime thinks, "Now I don't need to put any effort into making this compelling", which is why Crystal probably has all those 5 star reviews and such. And Shingo is proving them right. He has no sense of respect and just eats up whatever crap the modern anime industry gushes out (no offense to those who love modern anime, there are some I'm interested in but most look the same and not interesting), he can't handle different opinions at all, and it's not that we "didn't miss what Crystal's intention was", he's just trying to insult our intelligence, I mean, that's what I'm getting based off of his tone. :angry: :x

I don't think Crystal even would appeal to adults/adult women because of the toned down violence/childish tone and the way the characters are treated, and it's definitely not a good way to introduce people to Sailor Moon (I hope/wonder if the majority of the people who were introduced to it through Crystal realized it's terrible, and checked out the classic anime or the manga or PGSM). I wonder if said facts he were talking about also were lies...or if he's just delusional/in denial.


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 Post subject: Re: While I Am Proud to be a Moonie, I Hate this Fandom At Times
PostPosted: Sun Nov 26, 2017 6:54 pm 
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 Post subject: Re: While I Am Proud to be a Moonie, I Hate this Fandom At Times
PostPosted: Sun Nov 26, 2017 9:02 pm 
Luna Nova
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Sorry.


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 Post subject: Re: While I Am Proud to be a Moonie, I Hate this Fandom At Times
PostPosted: Mon Nov 27, 2017 12:00 am 
Luna Nova
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FloraKiraraHime wrote:
I know, I replied to ShingoZaku, I tried to tell him you weren't that "care bear troll". I don't think you are, you seem like a great person. I'll try reporting him.


Thanks for replying to him also, and good Lord, I feel really sorry and horrible for him if he "smh"s and thinks it's a "fact" that "Crystal has more character progression than the 90's" and the characters "regressed in the 90's version/character development reset every season", the first sentence proving how much of an opinion disrespecter he is and how he thinks he's the only one who's right, I hate the arrogant tone Crystal fans have. I say to him: really? Put down the Kool Aid please, it clearly isn't Kool Aid, (plus I never got a sense of "maturity" from Usagi in Crystal at all, also considering how the Inners have no personality or characters too), the characters weren't just tropes in that one, they grew over time (Usagi in fact, in season 3, wondered if she had to retire being a Sailor Soldier and didn't want to do that) sounds to me you didn't even see the original anime at all, that's the impression I get. It amazes and surprises me how so many Crystal fans do not know what good writing, characterization, art/animation even is. :o

And he now has 13 blind people supporting him...


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 Post subject: Re: While I Am Proud to be a Moonie, I Hate this Fandom At Times
PostPosted: Mon Nov 27, 2017 12:27 am 
Columnae Creationis
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^ Now you two may continue to discuss about that on PMs. :wink:

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 Post subject: Re: While I Am Proud to be a Moonie, I Hate this Fandom At Times
PostPosted: Mon Nov 27, 2017 1:01 am 
Luna Nova
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I see how to PM now.

Changing the subject, anyone know when the new Crystal movie is coming out?


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 Post subject: Re: While I Am Proud to be a Moonie, I Hate this Fandom At Times
PostPosted: Mon Nov 27, 2017 1:11 am 
Solaris Luna
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Rika-Chicchi wrote:
^ Now you two may continue to discuss about that on PMs. :wink:


Yes, Rika!

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 Post subject: Re: While I Am Proud to be a Moonie, I Hate this Fandom At Times
PostPosted: Mon Nov 27, 2017 2:56 am 
Solaris Luna
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MementoNepenthe wrote:
I wouldn't say Crystal is sexist, just really badly written. :lol:


LMAO!


SailorSpySedna wrote:
I see how to PM now.

Changing the subject, anyone know when the new Crystal movie is coming out?


Probably, NEVER. It's more likely some time late next year or the year after. Personally, I'll be a bit irate if the movie's writing or animation is like Season 3 & hasn't improved. The manga is so rushed, perhaps a movie will be the best for it. We all know how Stars is & a movie adaptation will prob be the best bet since they don't wanna add any new content to the show. :roll:

I'm hoping the Dream movies are good.


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