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 Post subject: Japan's population in crisis
PostPosted: Sat Feb 27, 2016 2:39 am 
Planeta
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http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-asia-35666274

Just thought to bring this up. Since this is a huge thing for Japan's future.

Quote:
New census figures in Japan show the population has shrunk by nearly one million in the past five years, in the first decline registered since 1920.
As of October last year the country has 127.1 million people, 0.7% fewer than in the last census.
Demographers have long predicted a drop, citing Japan's falling birth rate and a lack of immigration.
The rapidly ageing population has contributed to a stagnating economy and worries of increasing health costs.

Japan has seen population growth for much of the past century, but this has been slowing rapidly in recent decades. The last census showed the population had completely stopped growing.
Friday's numbers mark the first time a decline has been recorded in the census, which has been taken every five years since 1920.
Researchers are predicting a sharp drop-off in the working population and a simultaneous rise in the number of elderly in coming decades.
According to government projections, by 2060 about 40% of its citizens will be sixty-five or older, and the general population will be one-third smaller than it is now.

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 Post subject: Re: Japan's population in crisis
PostPosted: Sat Feb 27, 2016 12:56 pm 
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This issue has been debated for quite some time now.

To sum things up, young Japanese men and women are either becoming too reclusive or they simply stopped believing in the idea of marrying and having kids. They stopped caring about having sex, too. The corporate world in Japan is too harsh, and it simply does not allow one to think about things other than work and their careers.

This is an interesting article: http://www.theguardian.com/world/2013/o ... having-sex

Awesome thread, Welshy.

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 Post subject: Re: Japan's population in crisis
PostPosted: Sat Feb 27, 2016 3:19 pm 
Galaxias
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I feel like I would fit in Japan quite fine. I don't have any sex either these days. All I do is sitting at home, watching animu and playing video games. I was born in a wrong country. Bad luck. :blue:

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 Post subject: Re: Japan's population in crisis
PostPosted: Sat Feb 27, 2016 3:42 pm 
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Maraviollantes wrote:
I feel like I would fit in Japan quite fine. I don't have any sex either these days. All I do is sitting at home, watching animu and playing video games. I was born in a wrong country. Bad luck. :blue:


Mara,

Sometimes I wonder if you say those things to sound funny and witty...

or if you are actually speaking the truth, and you're like the man dating his pillow.

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 Post subject: Re: Japan's population in crisis
PostPosted: Sat Feb 27, 2016 4:18 pm 
Columnae Creationis
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Korea has also got the similar demographic problem - I think at some point such countries will have no choice but to relax their immigration policy & allow their present cultures to be changed a bit as a result (which might even not be a bad thing), if they wanna keep their present standard of living.

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 Post subject: Re: Japan's population in crisis
PostPosted: Sun Feb 28, 2016 2:19 am 
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I always get frustrated by this because populations can't grow forever, so I'd think laying off the child-having for a while would be a good thing, but no, it's apparently a crisis. How do you win? Part of the reason they're too miserable to have kids is the fierce competition!

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 Post subject: Re: Japan's population in crisis
PostPosted: Sun Feb 28, 2016 3:10 pm 
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AI & robotics could alleviate the problem in due course, as they could take over human jobs from the present low-level, blue-collar ones all the way to the future professional & management ones, as the technology progresses exponentially. :)

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 Post subject: Re: Japan's population in crisis
PostPosted: Sun Mar 27, 2016 11:53 pm 
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Don't even get me started with all the Japanese women who marry foreigners (especially Americans). I know of at least two Japanese women who are married to Anglo Americans and have at least FOUR kids each.

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 Post subject: Re: Japan's population in crisis
PostPosted: Mon Mar 28, 2016 12:11 am 
Lumen Cinereum
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otakumom wrote:
Don't even get me started with all the Japanese women who marry foreigners (especially Americans). I know of at least two Japanese women who are married to Anglo Americans and have at least FOUR kids each.


What's wrong with that

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 Post subject: Re: Japan's population in crisis
PostPosted: Mon Mar 28, 2016 2:29 am 
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otakumom wrote:
Don't even get me started with all the Japanese women who marry foreigners (especially Americans). I know of at least two Japanese women who are married to Anglo Americans and have at least FOUR kids each.


My sumi art teacher is a Japanese woman married to an American. What's wrong with that?

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 Post subject: Re: Japan's population in crisis
PostPosted: Mon Mar 28, 2016 2:44 am 
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Clow wrote:
This issue has been debated for quite some time now.

To sum things up, young Japanese men and women are either becoming too reclusive or they simply stopped believing in the idea of marrying and having kids. They stopped caring about having sex, too. The corporate world in Japan is too harsh, and it simply does not allow one to think about things other than work and their careers.

This is an interesting article: http://www.theguardian.com/world/2013/o ... having-sex

Awesome thread, Welshy.


The question is, why have they lost interest in sex? I always find it ironic that in a country notorious for its AV and hentai export that Japanese have lost interest in sex. Or maybe that's it, perhaps its precisely because they are bombarded with AV that they have lost interest in real sex.

Another thing of course is that they may have no time for it. Or they are too tired to have it after work. You have alluded to the extreme Japanese work culture. They literally have a term for someone working to death: "karoshi". In fact, that is considered a serious problem in Japan, people literally working themselves to death.

Why? In the West, one works to live. But in Japan, one lives to work! Working hours are very very long over there. Overtime is expected and unpaid. Holidays, whether paid leave or public holidays, are almost never taken. On a sunday, you can usually find the office lights burning bright late into the night. Needless to say, for many Japanese, work comes first and family or personal life comes a very distant second.

I mean, we all value hard work as a positive thing to be encouraged. You can't get anywhere without the necessary time and effort. And yes, if that means sacrificing other things in life, so be it. But that being said, there are limits to it sometimes. Humans aren't machines. There is more to life than work. Hard work, when taken to extreme as is the case in Japan, and it will backfire.

P.S-This video gives a good idea of what many salaryman experience in an average Japanese work week:

https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=po8IPh64rVM


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 Post subject: Re: Japan's population in crisis
PostPosted: Mon Mar 28, 2016 6:47 pm 
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Them Japanese women who marry foreigners are partly to blame for Japan's steady population decline. It may sound borderline racist but I don't hold Asian women in high regard, especially since I lost my first husband to an Asian woman.

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 Post subject: Re: Japan's population in crisis
PostPosted: Mon Mar 28, 2016 6:53 pm 
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otakumom wrote:
Them Japanese women who marry foreigners are partly to blame for Japan's steady population decline. It may sound borderline racist but I don't hold Asian women in high regard, especially since I lost my first husband to an Asian woman.

That's understandable, even tho, as you've said, it sounds borderline racist. :)

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 Post subject: Re: Japan's population in crisis
PostPosted: Tue Mar 29, 2016 12:00 am 
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It's not just in Asia. Europe is having this same problem too.

http://www.nytimes.com/2008/06/29/magaz ... rth-t.html
otakumom wrote:
Them Japanese women who marry foreigners are partly to blame for Japan's steady population decline. It may sound borderline racist but I don't hold Asian women in high regard, especially since I lost my first husband to an Asian woman.


Or maybe your first husband is a manwhore. :yawn:

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 Post subject: Re: Japan's population in crisis
PostPosted: Tue Mar 29, 2016 1:34 am 
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I think America will soon see population decline too.

On top of whatever other variables, we just have enough people on this planet now! The population can't grow forever! Time to figure out how to make the economy work when it's mostly old people.

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 Post subject: Re: Japan's population in crisis
PostPosted: Tue Mar 29, 2016 2:13 am 
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Rika-Chicchi wrote:
otakumom wrote:
Them Japanese women who marry foreigners are partly to blame for Japan's steady population decline. It may sound borderline racist but I don't hold Asian women in high regard, especially since I lost my first husband to an Asian woman.

That's understandable, even tho, as you've said, it sounds borderline racist. :)


That poster is not trolling is she? Because believe me, that ain't borderline racist. That IS racist. Asian women stole her husband? Well, she should blame herself for picking a husband that is prone to adultery!


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 Post subject: Re: Japan's population in crisis
PostPosted: Tue Mar 29, 2016 11:30 am 
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Salem Saberhagen wrote:
On top of whatever other variables, we just have enough people on this planet now! The population can't grow forever!

How do you decide when enough is enough?

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 Post subject: Re: Japan's population in crisis
PostPosted: Tue Mar 29, 2016 3:05 pm 
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Animefan wrote:
That poster is not trolling is she? Because believe me, that ain't borderline racist. That IS racist. Asian women stole her husband? Well, she should blame herself for picking a husband that is prone to adultery!


oh wow, that reminds me to the whole thread at /tg/ which we turned into a full fledged setting. There it was "Vampire girl turned gf into a lesbian vampire" through "SMITE EVIL YOU HAVE HUGE EVILS!" to... a setting that's probably the most lighthearted thing I've seen in my life. Seriously, Trumpet dimension!

ahem, about the topic at hand, well... population fluctuates, behaviors change, humanity adapts. I'm not worried about culture or population either: the culture is already documented and archived to enough depth that in the hypothetial scenario that all those currently part of the japanese culture were to disappear, the culture could be reconstructed and rebuilt from scratch.

As for population? with modern medical technology (ultra-low child mortality) the population can rebreed to similar levels from 1mil in 3-4 generations. (+1-2 to account for not perfect reproduction (less than 8-10 children) So no worries there either.

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 Post subject: Re: Japan's population in crisis
PostPosted: Tue Mar 29, 2016 4:57 pm 
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Salem Saberhagen wrote:
On top of whatever other variables, we just have enough people on this planet now! The population can't grow forever! Time to figure out how to make the economy work when it's mostly old people.

But if we don't bear more children now, the population will continue to age fast, creating a ballooning socioeconomic burden. :P

Boro wrote:
ahem, about the topic at hand, well... population fluctuates, behaviors change, humanity adapts. I'm not worried about culture or population either: the culture is already documented and archived to enough depth that in the hypothetial scenario that all those currently part of the japanese culture were to disappear, the culture could be reconstructed and rebuilt from scratch.

And cultures, both the traditional & pop ones, can be adopted in other countries, too - in fact, most of the Japanese culture itself was adopted from the Chinese one in the past. :)

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 Post subject: Re: Japan's population in crisis
PostPosted: Tue Mar 29, 2016 8:31 pm 
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Animefan wrote:
Rika-Chicchi wrote:
otakumom wrote:
Them Japanese women who marry foreigners are partly to blame for Japan's steady population decline. It may sound borderline racist but I don't hold Asian women in high regard, especially since I lost my first husband to an Asian woman.

That's understandable, even tho, as you've said, it sounds borderline racist. :)


That poster is not trolling is she? Because believe me, that ain't borderline racist. That IS racist. Asian women stole her husband? Well, she should blame herself for picking a husband that is prone to adultery!



I'm not trolling. I have the right to feel that way.

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 Post subject: Re: Japan's population in crisis
PostPosted: Tue Mar 29, 2016 10:20 pm 
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^ Like what I've said above, I can understand that feeling, but it could also feel racist for others. :)

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 Post subject: Re: Japan's population in crisis
PostPosted: Wed Mar 30, 2016 12:20 am 
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Well it does not make sense logically, otakumom. You are just resorting to your ugliest instinct. Had that woman been black, would you blame all black woman? What if she was Jewish or Latino? See where I am getting at? Her race or ethnicity have no relations to the fact your husband left you. Your husband left you because he was unfaithful. So why should any random woman who happens to be Asian be blamed? They are not at fault.

Getting back on topic, I think we should not ignore the issue of Japanese work culture. Trust me, as someone with first-hand knowledge of working in a Japanese office, work over there is intense. It zaps whatever time and energy you have left for other pursuits. I once heard a Japanese manager unapologetically tell me my priority in life is to work for the company. Nothing else matters. In that kind of environment, is it any wonder few Japanese have the time to make babies?


Last edited by Animefan on Wed Mar 30, 2016 4:59 am, edited 3 times in total.

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 Post subject: Re: Japan's population in crisis
PostPosted: Wed Mar 30, 2016 1:44 am 
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^ Exactly, blame the individual not the race
you do have a right to be upset, still if you're going to blame anyone blame either your husband for being unfaithful or that individual woman for messing with a married man.


On topic:

With all the heavy work hours Japanese men have to endure they would most likely be too exhausted to do anything but sleep when they come home, heck they could lose sleep over the stress of thinking about details about work since they are encouraged to dedicate their entire being to their company so sex would be the last thing on their minds.

Some are literally working themselves to death.

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 Post subject: Re: Japan's population in crisis
PostPosted: Wed Mar 30, 2016 2:29 am 
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Maraviollantes wrote:
Salem Saberhagen wrote:
On top of whatever other variables, we just have enough people on this planet now! The population can't grow forever!

How do you decide when enough is enough?


A fair question, but my answer is that I (or the government, or whoever) am not the one to decide, I think it's when the people decide that the competition is so fierce they don't want to play the breeding game that they declare in mass that "enough is enough" and I think that's what we're beginning to see now.

Funnily enough, in primary school I used to worry about population explosions sucking our planet dry... I didn't predict that people would stop having children on their own before it got to that point...

@ Rika: it will create an economic burden, but that's gonna be our reality and we need to figure out how to deal with it. We can't just breed humans to drive finance... I suspect the age of retirement will rise along with life expectancy as a first major... Perhaps another measure will be an increase of automation so less jobs have to be filled? Well I'm not the business expert, I hope people who are are tackling this.

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 Post subject: Re: Japan's population in crisis
PostPosted: Wed Mar 30, 2016 2:35 am 
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How on Earth did this thread become so popular recently? I made this a month ago.

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 Post subject: Re: Japan's population in crisis
PostPosted: Wed Mar 30, 2016 7:08 am 
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SailorWelshy wrote:
How on Earth did this thread become so popular recently? I made this a month ago.


Spring. :wink: People wanna make babies. Or at least talk about it.


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 Post subject: Re: Japan's population in crisis
PostPosted: Wed Mar 30, 2016 7:42 am 
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Prince Rose wrote:
^ Exactly, blame the individual not the race
you do have a right to be upset, still if you're going to blame anyone blame either your husband for being unfaithful or that individual woman for messing with a married man.


On topic:

With all the heavy work hours Japanese men have to endure they would most likely be too exhausted to do anything but sleep when they come home, heck they could lose sleep over the stress of thinking about details about work since they are encouraged to dedicate their entire being to their company so sex would be the last thing on their minds.

Some are literally working themselves to death
.


Yes, its called karoshi in Japanese, as I mentioned earlier, often in the form of a heart attack, massive stroke or suicide. This is even reflected in manga like SM. Ever noticed how Usagi's Dad is seldom around the house except for brief appearances here and there? Its always her mom and her little brother, but not her Dad. Why? Its because he has to work pretty much 24/7 during the week. For Japanese kids, its normal and expected to see little of their Dad during the weekdays.


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 Post subject: Re: Japan's population in crisis
PostPosted: Wed Mar 30, 2016 2:34 pm 
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Mrs Confederate666 wrote:
SailorWelshy wrote:
How on Earth did this thread become so popular recently? I made this a month ago.


Spring. :wink: People wanna make babies. Or at least talk about it.


Oh, well that would explain it. :)

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 Post subject: Re: Japan's population in crisis
PostPosted: Wed Mar 30, 2016 4:31 pm 
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Salem Saberhagen wrote:
@ Rika: it will create an economic burden, but that's gonna be our reality and we need to figure out how to deal with it. We can't just breed humans to drive finance... I suspect the age of retirement will rise along with life expectancy as a first major... Perhaps another measure will be an increase of automation so less jobs have to be filled? Well I'm not the business expert, I hope people who are are tackling this.

I think both can help alleviate the problem to a considerable extent, but am still not sure whether they'll be sufficient to tackle it all together before the system reaches the breaking point - we can only hope for the best. :)

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 Post subject: Re: Japan's population in crisis
PostPosted: Wed Mar 30, 2016 5:19 pm 
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Salem Saberhagen wrote:
Perhaps another measure will be an increase of automation so less jobs have to be filled? Well I'm not the business expert, I hope people who are are tackling this.

Increasing automation will increase revenues of those in control of that automation, not of all people. At least as long as we live in a capitalistic society. If they have less workers remaining they will pay more to skilled workers who know how to control and program robots - certainly not feeding for free ever increasing amount of people who sit at home and whose job is now done by robots.

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