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 Post subject: Why "support the official release" when an item is OOP?
PostPosted: Wed Feb 15, 2017 1:52 am 
Luna Nova
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Even now, it seems that a lot of fans are obsessed with "supporting the official release" of Sailor Moon, when it comes to out of print items.

For example, I was just watching a YouTube video about SM bootlegs and how they were bad and that you shouldn't purchase them, but should buy the official release. The out of print item in this case was the Dic dub DVDs/VHS. I just don't understand the logic behind this. If we were talking Viz, then yes, of course! Support the official release if you can, by all means.

However, there is no supporting the official release of something out of print, such as the ADV release of the original dub as these items are unobtainable unless through a third party seller on eBay or Amazon. Thus, there is no reason to spend the extra money on the rare and expensive official DVDs, when you could get the same thing substantially cheaper. Money is not going to Toei, but to whoever is selling you their old copies.

I just don't understand why this is such a popular mindset - is it less about supporting Toei/etc, and more about not supporting bootlegers? That, I would understand.

Also, sorry if this is in the wrong section.


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 Post subject: Re: Why "support the official release" when an item is OOP?
PostPosted: Wed Feb 15, 2017 3:27 am 
Luna
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What they really mean is "Don't watch the old dub buy the Viz dub" the same people who didn't give a ☹ about supporting the official release when the Japanese version wasn't commercially available now suddenly give a ☹. You're right of course.


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 Post subject: Re: Why "support the official release" when an item is OOP?
PostPosted: Wed Feb 15, 2017 3:34 am 
Luna Crescens
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As a fansubber its pretty simple for me with one exception.

If something is available to buy legitimately with English subtitles in either of the following forms -
a) Official Japanese release with English subtitles from Amazon / CD japan
b) A licensed release available in Europe / USA from large mainstream retailers like Amazon / Right Stuff

Then I will not fansub it.

With respects to secondary channel it - if its brand new / sealed and still close to RRP then that counts but low / next to none or second hand / jacked up prices then no.

A good current example is Magical Angel Creamy Mami - you can still JUST about get it legitimately on Amazon.com but very soon it will be fully out of print - at that point where its nigh on impossible to obtain legitimately I would condone re-posting fansubs.

In short -

If it can be bought for new at close to the original retail price with English subtitles then you should support the official item.

If it's second hand or jacked up prices then no as thats not going to the original licensor / Toei thats only lining someone elses pockets.

Character Goods
Obviously character goods again if it's brand new / close to the original RRP again even if its a import again buy legitimately.

My One Exception
The one semi exception I make to the above is Sailor Moon Musicals - at the minute there is no official license for the Musicals in Europe and no official English subtitled release. In this case whilst I understand it being fansubbed I also think people shoud buy the official DVD's as only sales and profit for Nelke will guarantee they make more. Heck even back in 2005 before I understood Japanese like I do now I bought the Anza and Fumina boxes!.


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 Post subject: Re: Why "support the official release" when an item is OOP?
PostPosted: Wed Feb 15, 2017 4:15 am 
Stella
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I wouldn't say the ViZ dub is rare. I have found it in Walmart, Bustbuy etc. As for expensive it is not very expensive to me. All though I recognize that some people have tighter budgets.

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 Post subject: Re: Why "support the official release" when an item is OOP?
PostPosted: Wed Feb 15, 2017 4:20 am 
Luna Nova
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MariaTenebre wrote:
I wouldn't say the ViZ dub is rare. I have found it in Walmart, Bustbuy etc. As for expensive it is not very expensive to me. All though I recognize that some people have tighter budgets.


Oh, my bad! What I meant was, I don't see why people encourage purchasing the rare and expensive ADV DVDs, as opposed to bootlegs of the original dub.


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 Post subject: Re: Why "support the official release" when an item is OOP?
PostPosted: Wed Feb 15, 2017 4:34 am 
Stella
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crescent wrote:
MariaTenebre wrote:
I wouldn't say the ViZ dub is rare. I have found it in Walmart, Bustbuy etc. As for expensive it is not very expensive to me. All though I recognize that some people have tighter budgets.


Oh, my bad! What I meant was, I don't see why people encourage purchasing the rare and expensive ADV DVDs, as opposed to bootlegs of the original dub.

Well there is no need to look for the ADV DVDs since we have the ViZ dub anyway.

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 Post subject: Re: Why "support the official release" when an item is OOP?
PostPosted: Wed Feb 15, 2017 4:51 am 
Luna Nova
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MariaTenebre wrote:
crescent wrote:
MariaTenebre wrote:
I wouldn't say the ViZ dub is rare. I have found it in Walmart, Bustbuy etc. As for expensive it is not very expensive to me. All though I recognize that some people have tighter budgets.


Oh, my bad! What I meant was, I don't see why people encourage purchasing the rare and expensive ADV DVDs, as opposed to bootlegs of the original dub.

Well there is no need to look for the ADV DVDs since we have the ViZ dub anyway.


Yeah, I think it's just that a lot of people want to own the old dub for the purpose of nostalgia, etc. Some people even prefer it.


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 Post subject: Re: Why "support the official release" when an item is OOP?
PostPosted: Wed Feb 15, 2017 4:51 am 
Luna
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@Maria They mean the ADV dvd release of the DiC dub. Not the uncut sub


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 Post subject: Re: Why "support the official release" when an item is OOP?
PostPosted: Wed Feb 15, 2017 5:14 am 
Stella
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LifeGaveMeLemons wrote:
@Maria They mean the ADV dvd release of the DiC dub. Not the uncut sub

Oh I thought you meant the old sub. We yes for old dub fans this is a problem.

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 Post subject: Re: Why "support the official release" when an item is OOP?
PostPosted: Wed Feb 15, 2017 7:14 am 
Aurorae Lunares
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I've got nothing against fans who buy bootlegs of the DiC dub but I don't support bootlegs because the video quality is often really bad and sometimes the discs will freeze on you and not work. If your money isn't going to Toei either way, it's better to just download it and burn your own CDs.


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 Post subject: Re: Why "support the official release" when an item is OOP?
PostPosted: Thu Feb 16, 2017 10:40 am 
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I agree with you, while it's not good to buy bootlegs, but if they're out of print products that are not available anymore then I see no problems with wanting to buy bootlegs. One of the main reasons people buy the original legitimate products is to support the companies that make these products, but if these products are out of print and no longer officially produced, then the money doesn't go to the companies anymore anyway, hence it's fine to buy the bootleg versions.

I must confess that I do buy bootlegs quite frequently when it comes to SM merchandise, because most of the SM merch are just so expensive I just can't afford to buy most of the legitimate stuff, even though I do love many of the recent anniversary merch. So I'm very picky when it comes to buying SM merch, I will only buy the legit stuff that I can actually afford and REALLY want to own. But when it comes to the DVDs, I just buy the more recent releases from Viz. If I want the old DiC and Cloverway dubs then I would just watch/stream them online.

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 Post subject: Re: Why "support the official release" when an item is OOP?
PostPosted: Thu Feb 16, 2017 2:45 pm 
Stella Nova
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As someone who used to own bootlegs of the show from December 2008-May 2014, I can back what Neon Genesis said because although I didn't have them freeze on me, the DVDs I had were full of compression because each season were on 3-4 discs each (mostly 4 but S & Stars had 3) and they also had sub problems as there were instances where they would not show during some spoken lines and this was a frequent problem on S, Stars & the movies while s1, R & SuperS had them too but not as bad compared to the others.

If anyone wants bootlegs of the old dub then do what you want but if a re-release does eventually happen and you're able to afford it then you can throw them out like I did.

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 Post subject: Re: Why "support the official release" when an item is OOP?
PostPosted: Thu Feb 16, 2017 4:42 pm 
Luna Crescens
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If we're talking old versions of the dub then I agree better to download DVD rips than pay for bootlegs by a mile if you have absolutely no avenue for getting it legitimately.


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 Post subject: Re: Why "support the official release" when an item is OOP?
PostPosted: Fri Feb 17, 2017 10:16 am 
Planeta
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You can also find the old Dubs very easily on YouTube and just download the video onto Viz Media Player.

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 Post subject: Re: Why "support the official release" when an item is OOP?
PostPosted: Fri Feb 17, 2017 10:57 am 
Planeta
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SailorWelshy wrote:
You can also find the old Dubs very easily on YouTube and just download the video onto Viz Media Player.


Not anymore.

I think DIC fans will have to buy an illegitimate product because the likelihood of an official release is zero.

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 Post subject: Re: Why "support the official release" when an item is OOP?
PostPosted: Fri Feb 17, 2017 3:26 pm 
Luna Crescens
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Nooooooooo don't buy bootlegs.

If you want the DiC dub that bad 2 minutes of searching of nyaa.se threw up torrents for both Classic and R of the original dub at around the 17 - 18GB mark.

Don't line bootleggers pockets :unsure:


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 Post subject: Re: Why "support the official release" when an item is OOP?
PostPosted: Thu Mar 23, 2017 5:11 pm 
Luna
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I admit I'm starting to get a little annoyed with all this "Buy Legal Or Else" stuff considering that not everybody swims in loads of money Scrooge McDuck-style and that sometimes licenses sadly expire or there weren't any official exports for your respectice country or area to start with, so the only chance to get to see it at all is by means of near-unwatchable-quality, potentially badly done fandubs/subs on YT and the like.

I don't want to nitpick, but that kind of "witchhunt" won't get us anywhere and somehow it just hilariously reminds of that parody-Piracy Warning clip from "The IT-Crowd":



UPDATE: I know this video may be a little inappropriate due to the current events in London, so sorry if that offends anyone, but that's just my two "copper stars". P-:

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 Post subject: Re: Why "support the official release" when an item is OOP?
PostPosted: Tue Apr 11, 2017 5:55 am 
Aurorae Lunares
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For me, I'd rather own the official release for the sake of owning the official release. I enjoy the official packaging and DVD menus etc and knowing that it's official.

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 Post subject: Re: Why "support the official release" when an item is OOP?
PostPosted: Sun Jul 09, 2017 7:02 am 
Luna Nova
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Most of the time I have seen people say this because they think supporting the bootleggers is like supporting crime but I know it can be a pain in the butt to take the time to download this stuff and burn it to a disk. A lot of people don't even have computers with disc drives anymore with physical media on the way out expecting everyone to torrent something themselves is becoming a lot less practical. Its been a while since I did anything like that the last time I downloaded a torrent was a couple of months ago so that I could download a torrent of the VHS version of the SM movies, in that case I own a legitimate VHS copy the legit DVD but I just wanted to be able to watch the VHS version on DVD if I want to because that music track is the one i prefer. I mean I don't know what is the right or wrong answer to this I still have bootleg copies of the old show in my possession because thats the only way I used to be able to watch it but I have since bought used copies of all what I had on Bootleg since then. Its not because I felt like I did anything wrong by having the bootleg it was more just me wanting to have the real thing. Its definitely not cheap collecting the show bit by bit is expensive and time consuming its a long dub that never got a proper boxset but I wanted to take the time to do that. I still am not even done yet I have collected all of Classic R and S but I still have 5 SuperS dvds to go and It will be a while before I do finish them because its not a big priority for me. I say do what you want though.


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 Post subject: Re: Why "support the official release" when an item is OOP?
PostPosted: Mon Jul 10, 2017 12:47 pm 
Luna
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I can barely pay the rent, let alone food, so buying and importing every overprized DVD box just for finally getting to watch it at all is totally out of question for me anyway. :|

No really, almost every piece of my collection is either second/third etc. hand or bought with Xmas/birthday money. So please don't hate me if I don't explode from enthusiasm about the "Bootleg Bashing" around here. P-:

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 Post subject: Re: Why "support the official release" when an item is OOP?
PostPosted: Thu Jul 27, 2017 11:41 am 
Luna Crescens
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If you have absolutely NO other choice then fair enough go with the bootlegs.

If you can't find it ANYWHERE online in decent quality then fine go with the bootlegs but seriously if you're short on money why waste a money on a bootleg when you can download it and burn it for the price of a blank DVD / bluray ?. Heck I would spend hours downloading stuff on dialup. People have it easy these days with fast broadband!

I challenge you to prove beyond doubt that you can't get any part of Sailor Moon classic as a DVD rip or better SOMEWHERE online.


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 Post subject: Re: Why "support the official release" when an item is OOP?
PostPosted: Wed Nov 15, 2017 9:03 am 
Lapis Lunaris
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Oh I thought you meant the old sub. We yes for old dub fans this is a problem.

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 Post subject: Re: Why "support the official release" when an item is OOP?
PostPosted: Wed Nov 15, 2017 7:55 pm 
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Neon Genesis wrote:
I've got nothing against fans who buy bootlegs of the DiC dub but I don't support bootlegs because the video quality is often really bad and sometimes the discs will freeze on you and not work. If your money isn't going to Toei either way, it's better to just download it and burn your own CDs.



To be fair, even if you track down a legit copy, the money isn't gong to Toei anyways. The money goes to Toei when the store it was sold in the very first time bought it to sell. Someone bought it from that store, the money went to the store to recoup what was paid to buy it, plus extra for themselves, and then you bought it off of them (or it changed hands a number of times before getting to you.

When you buy a legit copy, unless you're buying directly from Toei's website, they already have the money for it. Buying it from a store increases demand, and makes the store go "Hey we need to buy more copies of this" and thus buy more. Even if that second shipment never sells, it helps because it's already paid for to the creators. (Assuming the store doesn't send it back to the vendor and get refunded. A bargain bin is a better fate then that.)

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