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 Post subject: Re: Filler and Crystal
PostPosted: Sun Mar 05, 2017 4:13 am 
Stella
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Usagi-Fifth-Doctor wrote:
MariaTenebre wrote:
As I have stated before on other threads I personally did not want an act for act manga adaptation. I would have been ok with something more faithful to the manga then say the 90s anime but I really wished they added filler episodes for characterization, character development, plot development and world building. I mean for one the villains just like in the manga have very little personality then "ooh look how evil I am" and are little more then glorified monsters of the day. Thetis aka the Youma that helped Jadeite out in the Cruise episode was given more characterization and development in the 90s then many of the villains were in the manga and Crystal. I would have liked them to add stuff fleshing out the Senshi's past and characters and maybe stuff for some of the civilian characters. As a lot of people mentioned I do think they should have adapted Casablanca Memories during the Dark Kingdom arc as it is referenced in later arcs. Worst of all Crystal edited out important characters like Rei's Grandfather and Unazuki from the Dark Kingdom arc and R respectively and the who Shitennou romance addition was poorly executed and all around terrible. Over all Crystal is my least favorite adaptation aside from some of the bad dubs. I still do like it and I am sure I will like Dream over even SuperS of the 90s anime but it left a lot to be desired in my personal wishes for a new anime.


I have to agree with you on this. I would love to see Rei and Unazuki being friends.

Me too I wished they included this as well.

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 Post subject: Re: Filler and Crystal
PostPosted: Sun Mar 05, 2017 2:24 pm 
Solaris Luna
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If I'm being honest, I can see how by Season 2 they decided to add to the story less and leave out certain characters after how certain changes in Season 1 didn't exactly pan out the way they wanted it too.

Not that an act by act adaptation of the Manga was needed but as the direction they wanted to go in, I at least can respect that and judge it on those merits. I suppose I don't want my nostalgia for the previous Anime adaptation to color my views of this new one and what it's attempting.


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 Post subject: Re: Filler and Crystal
PostPosted: Sun Mar 05, 2017 3:44 pm 
Aurorae Lunares
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matt0044 wrote:
If I'm being honest, I can see how by Season 2 they decided to add to the story less and leave out certain characters after how certain changes in Season 1 didn't exactly pan out the way they wanted it too.

Not that an act by act adaptation of the Manga was needed but as the direction they wanted to go in, I at least can respect that and judge it on those merits. I suppose I don't want my nostalgia for the previous Anime adaptation to color my views of this new one and what it's attempting.


But a lot of people can judge Crystal on its own merits without referencing the '90s anime and still come to the conclusion that they should have had more episodes to expand on certain plot points and characters that were underdeveloped in the manga. The '90s anime isn't the only adaptation to include filler, PGSM also had filler and it was 70% truer to the text than the '90s anime. There are filler episodes from PGSM that I enjoy more than actual chapters from the manga and 'plot episodes' from the '90s anime. You can't just peg it onto nostalgia.


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 Post subject: Re: Filler and Crystal
PostPosted: Tue Mar 07, 2017 5:21 am 
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Seira Hazuki wrote:
matt0044 wrote:
If I'm being honest, I can see how by Season 2 they decided to add to the story less and leave out certain characters after how certain changes in Season 1 didn't exactly pan out the way they wanted it too.

Not that an act by act adaptation of the Manga was needed but as the direction they wanted to go in, I at least can respect that and judge it on those merits. I suppose I don't want my nostalgia for the previous Anime adaptation to color my views of this new one and what it's attempting.


But a lot of people can judge Crystal on its own merits without referencing the '90s anime and still come to the conclusion that they should have had more episodes to expand on certain plot points and characters that were underdeveloped in the manga. The '90s anime isn't the only adaptation to include filler, PGSM also had filler and it was 70% truer to the text than the '90s anime. There are filler episodes from PGSM that I enjoy more than actual chapters from the manga and 'plot episodes' from the '90s anime. You can't just peg it onto nostalgia.

I agree with this as well again as I have stated before I would be fine if Crystal was more faithful to the manga then say the 90s anime but I also wanted them to add episodes to expand on plot points and characters that were underdeveloped in the manga aka filler and maybe adding new stuff and even new Senshi to keep things fresh.

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 Post subject: Re: Filler and Crystal
PostPosted: Tue Mar 07, 2017 6:11 am 
Solaris Luna
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Luckily, there will be new senshi. At least as far as them being animated for the first time on TV are concerned. If things like Casablanca Memories are referenced later like others state. Toei should release a collection of OAVs including it, the Exam Battles and a Sailor V collection.

Chibi Moon and the Sailor Quartet look like they dlbe good in a PreCure crossover.. hahaha


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 Post subject: Re: Filler and Crystal
PostPosted: Tue Mar 07, 2017 6:46 am 
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Star Angel Haruki wrote:
Luckily, there will be new senshi. At least as far as them being animated for the first time on TV are concerned. If things like Casablanca Memories are referenced later like others state. Toei should release a collection of OAVs including it, the Exam Battles and a Sailor V collection.

Chibi Moon and the Sailor Quartet look like they dlbe good in a PreCure crossover.. hahaha

I would definitely like that. I would love to see the Exam Battles, Chibiusa's Picture Diaries, Casablanca Memories and Sailor V animated.

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 Post subject: Re: Filler and Crystal
PostPosted: Tue Mar 07, 2017 8:22 am 
Aurorae Lunares
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Seira Hazuki wrote:
But a lot of people can judge Crystal on its own merits without referencing the '90s anime and still come to the conclusion that they should have had more episodes to expand on certain plot points and characters that were underdeveloped in the manga. The '90s anime isn't the only adaptation to include filler, PGSM also had filler and it was 70% truer to the text than the '90s anime. There are filler episodes from PGSM that I enjoy more than actual chapters from the manga and 'plot episodes' from the '90s anime. You can't just peg it onto nostalgia.
La Reconquistia also did a good job of staying faithful to the manga but it expanded on the story in a creative way and gave far more development to the Four Kings in a two hour musical than all 14 episodes of Crystal season one did.


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 Post subject: Re: Filler and Crystal
PostPosted: Tue Mar 07, 2017 3:15 pm 
Solaris Luna
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Seira Hazuki wrote:
You can't just peg it onto nostalgia.

If it came off as though I was pinning it all on that, I apologize for coming off as though I were generalizing.

My original post came from how I saw certain shows like Steven Universe and RWBY being berated for what the fans saw as "filler." This got me thinking about Sailor Moon Crystal and how people gripe about the lack of filler, making me wonder why exactly this was.

Was it because we all know that filler has its value unlike other fans? Was that simply because we already have the nineties Anime adaptation in full and don't need to worry about what's "filler" or not period? What if we got Sailor Moon Crystal first? That is to say, what if the Anime stuck to the Manga's storyline from the get-go and barely included filler (I am aware why each adaptation was what they were but this is hypothetical)? I guess my curiosity got the best of me...

I'm certainly haven't been opposed to filler in Crystal. While I enjoy it for all that it's worth as a Manga translated to a new medium like a book adapted into film, I do feel like adapting two arcs for 26 episodes wasn't exactly the best decision.


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 Post subject: Re: Filler and Crystal
PostPosted: Wed Mar 08, 2017 1:36 am 
Solaris Luna
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matt0044 wrote:
I'm certainly haven't been opposed to filler in Crystal. While I enjoy it for all that it's worth as a Manga translated to a new medium like a book adapted into film, I do feel like adapting two arcs for 26 episodes wasn't exactly the best decision.


Having read this statement, I fully agree with everything you said.

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 Post subject: Re: Filler and Crystal
PostPosted: Thu Mar 09, 2017 2:00 am 
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I personally think that (as much as I love and appreciate the 90s anime and wouldn't want any less of it) the 90s anime went overboard on "filler", whereas Crystal doesn't have enough of it.

I don't like the manga. I read all of it, and I was underwhelmed by it. My biggest issue with it is that the pacing is just awful, and in turn, so is Crystal's. There is very little character development and you just can't have a good, enjoyable story without characters that you can connect with and relate to. For a lot of people watching Crystal, I'm sure this isn't a problem as they already have an idea of what the characters are like that carries over from other versions of the story. For any newcomers, though, I think the series would feel very lacking.

Fillers aren't always necessary for characterization. Characters can be explored in episodes that are also central to the underlying plot, but Sailor Moon had so much going on at once that it was difficult to achieve that - not to mention, the characters had little personality in the manga and because Crystal is so obsessed with faithfulness to the manga, that happens to be the case with Crystal too. At least, in my opinion. I think there was a slight improvement with Crystal, but nothing major. Not enough to make the series enjoyable to me.

In conclusion, I think that one or two episodes of filler, here and there would be wonderful, but for some of the plot to happen in the beginning with 20+ episodes of filler, then some plot, 10 more episodes of filler and a little bit of plot, which is often what the 90s anime was - yeah, most people aren't going to like that.


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 Post subject: Re: Filler and Crystal
PostPosted: Thu Mar 09, 2017 4:54 am 
Solaris Luna
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Usagi-Fifth-Doctor wrote:
matt0044 wrote:
I'm certainly haven't been opposed to filler in Crystal. While I enjoy it for all that it's worth as a Manga translated to a new medium like a book adapted into film, I do feel like adapting two arcs for 26 episodes wasn't exactly the best decision.


Having read this statement, I fully agree with everything you said.

Well, maybe keep the overall story of the Dark Kingdom arc but expand on certain parts. Spread some stories over two episodes while adding in character moments for breathing room. We don't really need self-contained one-offs that center around some random shmoe (not that the victims of the day were all boring but all the same...) so much as see our heroines in more... subdued moments.

That's the sort of the story I think they could've gone for, not episodic but still able to have some room to stretch their legs. An extended cut if you will...


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 Post subject: Re: Filler and Crystal
PostPosted: Thu Mar 09, 2017 2:49 pm 
Solaris Luna
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Now in my opinion. PGSM did a good run with its filler episodes. I wished the anime followed suit. I love the Ami and Rei episodes and I loved when Rei and Makoto were butting heads over whether they are pampering Usagi to much. I love how they came together and how Makoto took Rei from her stupid meeting with her political father. I also love Darkury!! I like the whole Sailor Senshi weapon filler plot point as well. I've always wanted an anime version of PGSM Rei because that was her best version. I really liked the relationship between Queen Beryl and the Shittenou and how Kunzite and Zoisite were insubordinate towards her at times. I wish their was an anime veriosn of Moon Attractive Attack where they all come together. It looked really awesome, and though the ballet-fu was cheesy at times, the sensei all stood their ground and displayed some pretty clever link up attacks here and there or used their environment in battle.

I wonder will Rei's grandpa make an appearance. I want to see him in his manga form.


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 Post subject: Re: Filler and Crystal
PostPosted: Sun Mar 12, 2017 1:25 am 
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Star Angel Haruki wrote:
Now in my opinion. PGSM did a good run with its filler episodes. I wished the anime followed suit. I love the Ami and Rei episodes and I loved when Rei and Makoto were butting heads over whether they are pampering Usagi to much. I love how they came together and how Makoto took Rei from her stupid meeting with her political father. I also love Darkury!! I like the whole Sailor Senshi weapon filler plot point as well. I've always wanted an anime version of PGSM Rei because that was her best version. I really liked the relationship between Queen Beryl and the Shittenou and how Kunzite and Zoisite were insubordinate towards her at times. I wish their was an anime veriosn of Moon Attractive Attack where they all come together. It looked really awesome, and though the ballet-fu was cheesy at times, the sensei all stood their ground and displayed some pretty clever link up attacks here and there or used their environment in battle.

I wonder will Rei's grandpa make an appearance. I want to see him in his manga form.

Yeah PGSM was great in this regard I wish Crystal had followed suit in this.

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 Post subject: Re: Filler and Crystal
PostPosted: Sun Mar 12, 2017 2:08 am 
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PGSM did have great filler episodes.

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 Post subject: Re: Filler and Crystal
PostPosted: Sun Mar 12, 2017 3:10 am 
Aurorae Lunares
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But then PGSM also gave us stuff like Sailor Luna....


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 Post subject: Re: Filler and Crystal
PostPosted: Sun Mar 12, 2017 4:15 am 
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Neon Genesis wrote:
But then PGSM also gave us stuff like Sailor Luna....

Yeah I didn't like Sailor Luna for a lot of reasons. As I have stated before I think it would have been better if say instead of making Luna into a Senshi something which contradicts the manga as the cats had normal Starseeds and not Sailor Crystals. I wish they would have made Hina Kusaka into Sailor Sun. It would fit with her Solar themed name and would add new beef to the Usagi/Mamoru/Hina love triangle and plus we would have finally got a Senshi of the Sun which the Sun so far has been the only major celestial body that has not received a Senshi atleast not officially.

That being said I loved Dark Sailor Mercury I thought she was really awesome and it was cool to see Sailor Mercury turned evil. I liked the design of Princess Sailor Moon but did not like the fact that they established that Usagi and Princess Serenity were two separate people when they are supposed to be the same person in all other continuities and it really makes no sense.

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 Post subject: Re: Filler and Crystal
PostPosted: Sun Mar 12, 2017 9:15 pm 
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Neon Genesis wrote:
But then PGSM also gave us stuff like Sailor Luna....

I suspect Bandai pressured Toei to do that, but I've no proof, of course. In any case, the latter must've consulted the former regarding any new characters, new items, etc. in the show. :)

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 Post subject: Re: Filler and Crystal
PostPosted: Mon Mar 13, 2017 1:08 am 
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Rika-Chicchi wrote:
Neon Genesis wrote:
But then PGSM also gave us stuff like Sailor Luna....

I suspect Bandai pressured Toei to do that, but I've no proof, of course. In any case, the latter must've consulted the former regarding any new characters, new items, etc. in the show. :)

See I wouldn't have minded say the inclusion of a child Senshi but I didn't like that they made Luna into this Senshi. Luna is supposed to look a year younger then Usagi and look like her human form in the 90s, manga and Crystal. If it were me I would have created an original character. Like maybe a Sailor Senshi of one of the Moons of the various planets

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 Post subject: Re: Filler and Crystal
PostPosted: Mon Mar 13, 2017 5:01 am 
Solaris Luna
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I thought Sailor Luna was Naoko's idea? Or did she just design the outfit? I suspect Sailor Luna is either a knockoff Chibi-Usa or either it's common in Japan Live Action shows for the animal to take a human form if a fighter or something. I didn't mind Sailor Luna because I kinda just took her as..well a joke. I think Mamo-kun's ex girlfriend should have been either a Sailor Senshi from a different planet. Isn't SM the only magical girl show (aimed towards girls) to have a live action version.

I know PGSM wasn't a huge success but I ate it up when I saw it...I was crying for PGSM R & S just to see the Senshi.


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 Post subject: Re: Filler and Crystal
PostPosted: Mon Mar 13, 2017 5:15 am 
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Star Angel Haruki wrote:
I thought Sailor Luna was Naoko's idea? Or did she just design the outfit? I suspect Sailor Luna is either a knockoff Chibi-Usa or either it's common in Japan Live Action shows for the animal to take a human form if a fighter or something. I didn't mind Sailor Luna because I kinda just took her as..well a joke. I think Mamo-kun's ex girlfriend should have been either a Sailor Senshi from a different planet. Isn't SM the only magical girl show (aimed towards girls) to have a live action version.

I know PGSM wasn't a huge success but I ate it up when I saw it...I was crying for PGSM R & S just to see the Senshi.

Hina should have been the Senshi of the Sun. It makes sense because both her given name and surname have characters in it that represent the Sun. So it would have made the most sense for her to be Sailor Sun.

To quote wikimoon.

Both of the Japanese kanji characters of "Hi" (陽) in her first name and "Kusa" (日) in her family name mean "sun." In contrast to this, Usagi's family name includes "Tsuki" (月), which means "moon," and "Chi" (地) in Mamoru's family name means "Earth."

Why they missed such an excellent opportunity I don't know. Hina was an awesome character and making her into Sailor Sun would finally have all of the major celestial objects to have Senshi for them and it would have made another interesting side of the love triangle with Usagi being the Moon, Mamoru the Earth and Hina the Sun.

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 Post subject: Re: Filler and Crystal
PostPosted: Mon Mar 13, 2017 5:32 pm 
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Star Angel Haruki wrote:
I didn't mind Sailor Luna because I kinda just took her as..well a joke.

I think she's actually meant to be a joke. :P

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 Post subject: Re: Filler and Crystal
PostPosted: Mon Mar 13, 2017 6:55 pm 
Solaris Luna
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Rika-Chicchi wrote:
Star Angel Haruki wrote:
I didn't mind Sailor Luna because I kinda just took her as..well a joke.

I think she's actually meant to be a joke. :P


I find it funny that in PGSM, she's about as helpful as Usagi's was in the Dark Kingdom anime.


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 Post subject: Re: Filler and Crystal
PostPosted: Mon Mar 13, 2017 10:30 pm 
Aurorae Lunares
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My big problem with Sailor Luna is she always seemed to pop in moments that are supposed to be serious and I feel like she clashes with the otherwise dark tone of the series. For all the problems with Chibiusa in the 90s anime, the writers always knew when to use her comic relief appropriately.


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