Sailor Moon Forum

International Sailor Moon Online Community

* FAQ    * Search   * Login 
* Rss  * Register
It is currently Sat Oct 21, 2017 9:24 pm

All times are UTC




Post new topic Reply to topic  [ 26 posts ] 
Author Message
 Post subject: Is SMC really that similar to the manga?
PostPosted: Thu May 11, 2017 9:42 pm 
Luna
Luna
User avatar
Years of membershipYears of membershipYears of membershipYears of membershipYears of membershipYears of membershipYears of membershipYears of membership
Joined: May 31, 2009
Posts: 634
I've been hearing by a lot of people, mostly from Crystal fans, that SMC is exactly like the manga, only animated. Upon inspection though, a lot of elements from the manga were changed or eliminated, much to Crystal's detriment. To understand better what I mean, check out this blog that offers examples and analysis.

What do you think?

_________________
Worst episode of '90s Sailor Moon >>>>> Best episode of Sailor Moon CrystalImage


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Is SMC really that similar to the manga?
PostPosted: Thu May 11, 2017 9:52 pm 
Luna
Luna
User avatar
Years of membershipYears of membershipYears of membership
Joined: Jan 07, 2014
Posts: 861
Location: Dark Kingdom
Sailor Starlight wrote:
I've been hearing by a lot of people, mostly from Crystal fans, that SMC is exactly like the manga, only animated. Upon inspection though, a lot of elements from the manga were changed or eliminated, much to Crystal's detriment. To understand better what I mean, check out this blog that offers examples and analysis.

What do you think?


Did these people not watch the show, or...?
Because within the first 3 minutes there's already a new scene added lol.

This isn't anything new, since changes have been present within minutes of the show's first episode and its regarded as a closer adaptation than the old one.
I don't think that people claiming it to be an exact copy actually exists.


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Is SMC really that similar to the manga?
PostPosted: Thu May 11, 2017 10:42 pm 
Solaris Luna
Solaris Luna
User avatar
Years of membershipYears of membershipYears of membershipYears of membershipYears of membership
Joined: Jul 31, 2012
Posts: 2614
Location: Outer Space
Gender: Biseinen Angel
Other: Kuiper Belt
I don't think so, but it does have important moments from the manga animated that weren't done so in the 90s anime. It is also more faithful to certain event, items and attacks.

Things that were changed like for example, Mars killing Jaedite in the manga, coming close to it in Crystal and then you have the 90s, which replaced Jaedite, with the bus youma, since it dies just about the exact way Jaedite did in the manga.


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Is SMC really that similar to the manga?
PostPosted: Thu May 11, 2017 11:12 pm 
Stella
Stella
User avatar
Years of membershipYears of membershipYears of membershipYears of membershipYears of membershipYears of membershipYears of membershipYears of membership
Joined: Jul 22, 2009
Posts: 4333
It is much closer then the 90s anime however they have added and removed things from the show. Sometimes for the best sometimes for the worst.

_________________
.


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Is SMC really that similar to the manga?
PostPosted: Fri May 12, 2017 1:24 am 
Planeta
Planeta
User avatar
Years of membershipYears of membershipYears of membershipYears of membershipYears of membershipYears of membershipYears of membershipYears of membershipYears of membership
Joined: Sep 24, 2008
Posts: 3569
Gender: Male
Yes it is really THAT similar to the manga.

Although since the whole story has been established, some scenes are more fleshed out to link the Senshi with their past lives for the better (i.e: Moon and the Inners having visions of the Silver Millenium with their first meeting with Serenity) or the worst (The Shittenou being re-brainwashed and killed by Metalia).

It is definitely not a carbon copy of the manga but more like a modern adaptation of the story.

_________________
Image


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Is SMC really that similar to the manga?
PostPosted: Fri May 12, 2017 3:08 am 
Luna
Luna
User avatar
Years of membershipYears of membershipYears of membershipYears of membershipYears of membership
Joined: Dec 20, 2011
Posts: 992
Location: New York
Gender: Male
Your subject asks "Is SMC really that similar to the manga?" but the first line of your post reads: "I've been hearing by a lot of people, mostly from Crystal fans, that SMC is exactly like the manga, only animated."

Your subject line does not match what you are trying to say in this topic.

I don't think many Crystal fans claim it is "exactly" like the manga; or if they are, they are obviously using hyperbole.

An inability to identify hyperbole or exaggeration can mean many things, but you seem like an intelligent person, so I can only conclude that you are being willfully ignorant in order to prove a point.

Crystal fans are not saying it is "exactly" like the manga, but rather, we are saying that it is closer to the manga than the 90s version.

Regardless of your opinion on the quality of Crystal, the fact that Crystal is a very close adaptation of the Sailor Moon manga is undeniable and indisputable.

This thread doesn't seem to serve a purpose other than to stir up anti-Crystal sentiment.

Next!

_________________
Check out my Sera Myu (Sailor Moon musical) review thread! Soon to be updated. :)

#BlueLivesMatter


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Is SMC really that similar to the manga?
PostPosted: Fri May 12, 2017 3:15 am 
Systema Solare
Systema Solare
User avatar
Years of membershipYears of membershipYears of membershipYears of membershipYears of membership
Joined: Aug 27, 2012
Posts: 5143
Location: "Studying" With Ami-Chan!
Gender: Male
Other: Married To NQS!
yes and no, yes its similar but the art style in the manga is far superior to Crystals in every way possible and with the exception of the Dark Kingdom Arc the Characters had good development (I blame Miss Takeuchi's director for Rushing her)

_________________
Image

Image


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Is SMC really that similar to the manga?
PostPosted: Fri May 12, 2017 3:50 am 
Yoshi
Yoshi
User avatar
Years of membershipYears of membershipYears of membershipYears of membershipYears of membershipYears of membershipYears of membershipYears of membership
Joined: Jul 05, 2009
Posts: 6645
Location: Philippines
Ryo Urawa wrote:
yes and no, yes its similar but the art style in the manga is far superior to Crystals in every way possible and with the exception of the Dark Kingdom Arc the Characters had good development (I blame Miss Takeuchi's director for Rushing her)


It was a bad idea putting S1 and S2 together. :dead:

_________________
Image Image


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Is SMC really that similar to the manga?
PostPosted: Fri May 12, 2017 7:40 am 
Aurorae Lunares
Aurorae Lunares
User avatar
Years of membership
Joined: Oct 31, 2015
Posts: 1753
As someone who is a fan of Crystal, I don't know any Crystal fan who would argue that Crystal is an exact copy of the manga. What most Crystal fans would say is that Crystal is more faithful to the manga than the 90s anime but I doubt anyone would say it's exactly the same. One can argue about the quality of the execution but I don't think even most critics of Crystal would really dispute the adaptation's faithfulness to the manga. I would compare the accuracy of Crystal to the first two Harry Potter movies. Even with those movies, they do make some changes to the source material, either for the sake of cutting for time or just to take creative liberties to make the scene work in a different medium, but they still largely follow the books very faithfully and even use most of the same dialog from the books. Besides the romantic subplot of the Generals, I think the only other big changes is changing it so Sailor Moon uses the sword against Beryl instead of Venus, changing so they kill Beryl by breaking her necklace instead of stabbing her, cutting out Grandpa Hino and Unazuki, cutting out Motoki finding out the Inners' secret identities, and cutting out some extra scenes about Mamoru's powers in the Black Moon arc.

Again, we can dispute how well these changes were executed, but these are the same types of changes the first two Harry Potter movies make where some alterations are made to make the plot more streamlined for an adaptation, but it doesn't effect the overall plot in a radical way like the 90s anime did. Most of the examples this blog cite seem like minor nitpicks that are typical of what you will find in most book to screen adaptations that still strive for book accuracy. I feel like there are better examples the author could have used like I mentioned above instead of nitpicking about Usagi's ketchup or something to make a stronger case. But I get the feeling the author is merely trying to score points against other fans that disagree with their opinion about Crystal and not trying to understand how book to screen adaptations actually work. But setting up a strawman argument and nitpicking about ketchup isn't really helping their case.


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Is SMC really that similar to the manga?
PostPosted: Fri May 12, 2017 12:02 pm 
Solaris Luna
Solaris Luna
User avatar
Years of membershipYears of membershipYears of membershipYears of membershipYears of membership
Joined: Mar 08, 2012
Posts: 2528
Gender: Agender
The manga is amazing and Crystal is struggle mediocre at best, so... :mischief:

_________________
I will right wrongs and triumph over evil, and that means Trump! #NotMyPresident

Image


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Is SMC really that similar to the manga?
PostPosted: Fri May 12, 2017 12:55 pm 
Aurorae Lunares
Aurorae Lunares
User avatar
Years of membershipYears of membershipYears of membershipYears of membershipYears of membershipYears of membershipYears of membershipYears of membershipYears of membershipYears of membership
Joined: Jan 17, 2007
Posts: 1642
SMC is incredibly similar to the manga. It is by far the closest adaptation to it. I don't think there's really much to argue there.

I think there can be a broader discussion in terms of 'faithfulness' which is a bit more subjective for each person. For example, it's fascinating to me that fans of the first two seasons claim that Season 3 isn't accurate to the manga and call it an attempt to become the '90s anime, when aside from the '90s homages, that season had the least changes to the manga story and characters. And even with the style change, there are so many recreations of manga panels. On the flip side, Season 3 fans argue that S1/S2 are not faithful to the manga despite the story still being virtually identical... Even some of the changes they didn't like, such as the lack of humor, was brought back in Season 2.

It just goes to show you how many different interpretations the manga has had. Despite it being illustrated, it's still a lot like a textual novel where people have their own 'vision' of the story in their minds. You set the pace with reading it, you fill in the blanks in your head and you essentially direct each scene and how the characters' voices sound. And I don't think any person who is a serious fan of the manga can claim that Crystal played each scene EXACTLY how they imagined it when they first read the comic.

This is part of the reason why there's so many conflicting, even contradictory, reactions towards Crystal, including from super fans of the manga (I'm assuming that blog that was linked is a fan of the manga since they're doing something so tedious comparing each scene panel by panel). Essentially, you're not directly seeing Naoko's vision unfold onscreen, you are watching a director's (whether it's Kon or Sakai) interpretation of Naoko's vision. Quality of the animation, direction and pacing is a huge part of it too, but I think there's a lot to be said about how people interpret the manga and how Crystal matches each person's vision of it. It's a lot more nuanced than just 90s anime fans vs. manga fans which all of these discussions end up boiling down to.


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Is SMC really that similar to the manga?
PostPosted: Fri May 12, 2017 4:17 pm 
Luna
Luna
User avatar
Years of membershipYears of membershipYears of membership
Joined: Jan 07, 2014
Posts: 861
Location: Dark Kingdom
John wrote:
Your subject asks "Is SMC really that similar to the manga?" but the first line of your post reads: "I've been hearing by a lot of people, mostly from Crystal fans, that SMC is exactly like the manga, only animated."

Your subject line does not match what you are trying to say in this topic.

I don't think many Crystal fans claim it is "exactly" like the manga; or if they are, they are obviously using hyperbole.

An inability to identify hyperbole or exaggeration can mean many things, but you seem like an intelligent person, so I can only conclude that you are being willfully ignorant in order to prove a point.

Crystal fans are not saying it is "exactly" like the manga, but rather, we are saying that it is closer to the manga than the 90s version.

Regardless of your opinion on the quality of Crystal, the fact that Crystal is a very close adaptation of the Sailor Moon manga is undeniable and indisputable.

This thread doesn't seem to serve a purpose other than to stir up anti-Crystal sentiment.


Next!


I'm happy that people aren't feeding into this, but I had the same thought. Its an established pattern in OP's post.


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Is SMC really that similar to the manga?
PostPosted: Fri May 12, 2017 6:13 pm 
Aurorae Lunares
Aurorae Lunares
User avatar
Years of membershipYears of membershipYears of membershipYears of membership
Joined: Jul 11, 2013
Posts: 1366
rgveda99 wrote:
Ryo Urawa wrote:
yes and no, yes its similar but the art style in the manga is far superior to Crystals in every way possible and with the exception of the Dark Kingdom Arc the Characters had good development (I blame Miss Takeuchi's director for Rushing her)


It was a bad idea putting S1 and S2 together. :dead:


I think they had the reason to put 2 seasons together.

Arc 1 of manga has 14 acts, Arc 2 has 12.

But in anime industry, each season must have 12 or 13 acts.

It would be ridiculous to end a season at the scene "I will seal you for good" and put and end there.

So the combination of 2 arc, with 13 x 2 episodes is a good idea.

In Japan, the opening of season 2 is Act 14 (The Final Battle), not Act 15 (Invasion -Sailor Mars-). While Act 14 is still the Dark Kingdom arc in manga.

_________________
Image


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Is SMC really that similar to the manga?
PostPosted: Sun May 14, 2017 9:09 pm 
Stella
Stella
User avatar
Years of membershipYears of membershipYears of membershipYears of membershipYears of membershipYears of membershipYears of membershipYears of membership
Joined: Jul 22, 2009
Posts: 4333
MementoNepenthe wrote:
The manga is amazing and Crystal is struggle mediocre at best, so... :mischief:

Sadly I tend to agree. Crystal is not without it's charm and there are things I like about it but it simply wasn't what I wanted in a new anime and in many cases was executed poorly.

_________________
.


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Is SMC really that similar to the manga?
PostPosted: Sun May 14, 2017 9:12 pm 
Planeta
Planeta
User avatar
Years of membershipYears of membershipYears of membershipYears of membershipYears of membership
Joined: Jul 29, 2012
Posts: 3357
Gender: male
Other: CLAMP PR
MementoNepenthe wrote:
The manga is amazing and Crystal is struggle mediocre at best, so... :mischief:


I absolutely hate the first act of the manga... the pacing is terrible, there is very little time for the reader to connect with the characters (aside from Usagi and Mamoru). However, the remaining arcs are excellent, and the "Stars" arc, particularly, was, in my opinion, brilliantly written and illustrated... much better than what TOEI gave us in the 90's.

_________________
Visit Clow's shop


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Is SMC really that similar to the manga?
PostPosted: Sun May 14, 2017 9:16 pm 
Stella
Stella
User avatar
Years of membershipYears of membershipYears of membershipYears of membershipYears of membershipYears of membershipYears of membershipYears of membership
Joined: Jul 22, 2009
Posts: 4333
Clow wrote:
MementoNepenthe wrote:
The manga is amazing and Crystal is struggle mediocre at best, so... :mischief:


I absolutely hate the first act of the manga... the pacing is terrible, there is very little time for the reader to connect with the characters (aside from Usagi and Mamoru). However, the remaining arcs are excellent, and the "Stars" arc, particularly, was, in my opinion, brilliantly written and illustrated... much better than what TOEI gave us in the 90's.

Yeah Dream and Stars both were definitely better then what the 90s offered us. However I will say while most things I tend to prefer in the manga in these last two arcs. However in the 90s anime I did like the fact that the Amazon Trio survived and were fleshed out, I liked Queen Nehellenia's anime backstory better and I also liked Sailor Galaxia's backstory better as opposed to her emo rage child story from the manga.

_________________
.


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Is SMC really that similar to the manga?
PostPosted: Sun May 14, 2017 9:36 pm 
Systema Solare
Systema Solare
User avatar
Years of membershipYears of membershipYears of membershipYears of membershipYears of membership
Joined: Aug 27, 2012
Posts: 5143
Location: "Studying" With Ami-Chan!
Gender: Male
Other: Married To NQS!
^^^I also want to point out that Crystal removed entire plot points and characters that were present in the manga like Rei's Dad and Grandpa for example (we never did get Rei's backstory in Crystal)

_________________
Image

Image


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Is SMC really that similar to the manga?
PostPosted: Sun May 14, 2017 9:52 pm 
Solaris Luna
Solaris Luna
User avatar
Years of membershipYears of membership
Joined: May 01, 2015
Posts: 2115
Location: Pikari-gaoka
Gender: Female
Other: Married to TWS91
MariaTenebre wrote:
MementoNepenthe wrote:
The manga is amazing and Crystal is struggle mediocre at best, so... :mischief:

Sadly I tend to agree. Crystal is not without it's charm and there are things I like about it but it simply wasn't what I wanted in a new anime and in many cases was executed poorly.


I agree as well. Crystal does have good things about it, which I like.

_________________
Image
"Dreams are hopeless aspirations in hopes of coming true, believe in yourself, the rest is up me and you"
July is Chibi Chibi Month! :chibichibi:


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Is SMC really that similar to the manga?
PostPosted: Wed May 17, 2017 2:21 pm 
Solaris Luna
Solaris Luna
User avatar
Years of membershipYears of membershipYears of membershipYears of membershipYears of membership
Joined: Mar 08, 2012
Posts: 2528
Gender: Agender
Ryo Urawa wrote:
^^^I also want to point out that Crystal removed entire plot points and characters that were present in the manga like Rei's Dad and Grandpa for example (we never did get Rei's backstory in Crystal)


In fairness her parents were never mentioned in the 90s anime either, but it was weird and disappointing that Crystal ignored them and her grandfather as well. (Not to mention Unazuki!)

_________________
I will right wrongs and triumph over evil, and that means Trump! #NotMyPresident

Image


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Is SMC really that similar to the manga?
PostPosted: Thu May 18, 2017 4:48 pm 
Luna
Luna
User avatar
Years of membershipYears of membershipYears of membershipYears of membershipYears of membership
Joined: Dec 20, 2011
Posts: 992
Location: New York
Gender: Male
MementoNepenthe wrote:
Ryo Urawa wrote:
^^^I also want to point out that Crystal removed entire plot points and characters that were present in the manga like Rei's Dad and Grandpa for example (we never did get Rei's backstory in Crystal)


In fairness her parents were never mentioned in the 90s anime either, but it was weird and disappointing that Crystal ignored them and her grandfather as well. (Not to mention Unazuki!)


As much as I love Crystal, it's gonna be weird that the crows will be introduced either in Dream or Stars without us having seen them already...

I love the manga and as much as I like Crystal, I do feel that it pales in comparison; however, for simply being very true to the manga, I do have to give Crystal some credit. The 90s anime is very near to my heart but I've always wanted to see Dream and Stars adapted in animation. While I enjoyed SuperS and Sailor Stars for their own merits, I'm really looking forward to the Crystal adaptations simply because it's going to be basically following the manga. Removing minor characters here and there is disappointing but it doesn't even begin to compare to what SuperS did with Dream, for example.

_________________
Check out my Sera Myu (Sailor Moon musical) review thread! Soon to be updated. :)

#BlueLivesMatter


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Is SMC really that similar to the manga?
PostPosted: Thu May 18, 2017 5:04 pm 
Solaris Luna
Solaris Luna
User avatar
Years of membershipYears of membershipYears of membershipYears of membershipYears of membership
Joined: Mar 08, 2012
Posts: 2528
Gender: Agender
Phobos and Deimos have appeared in Crystal, though. They were in Act 3 and I think they've appeared briefly in another episode, but for the most part they've been forgotten about/ignored/non-characters. (Which is more or less the case in the manga as well.)

_________________
I will right wrongs and triumph over evil, and that means Trump! #NotMyPresident

Image


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Is SMC really that similar to the manga?
PostPosted: Sat May 20, 2017 12:53 am 
Stella
Stella
User avatar
Years of membershipYears of membershipYears of membershipYears of membershipYears of membershipYears of membershipYears of membershipYears of membership
Joined: Jul 22, 2009
Posts: 4333
See with regards to Phobos and Deimos I always wished that they were really set up as Sailor Mars's Guardian animals from the beginning. If I had done it I would have them to be able to talk from the beginning and even be the ones to give Rei her transformation pen instead of Luna.

I will say one thing I am excited to see in Crystal with regards to this duo is finally seeing which one is which of the two. To quote wikimoon.

Phobos and Deimos were almost identical in their humanoid forms, with the only difference being the color of their clothing. However, in the artbook Original Picture Collection Volume IV, Phobos was in the purple clothing and Deimos in red, but in Original Picture Collection Volume V, the colors were reversed. Since the manga pages were black and white, it is therefore impossible to know which one is actually which.

http://wikimoon.org/index.php?title=Phobos

I still think it is ridiculous for Naoko Takeuchi to be so inconsistent in the colors of both of them and labeling who is who.

_________________
.


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Is SMC really that similar to the manga?
PostPosted: Sun May 21, 2017 1:54 am 
Lumen Cinereum
Lumen Cinereum
Years of membershipYears of membershipYears of membership
Joined: Sep 29, 2014
Posts: 446
Gender: Male
MariaTenebre wrote:
See with regards to Phobos and Deimos I always wished that they were really set up as Sailor Mars's Guardian animals from the beginning. If I had done it I would have them to be able to talk from the beginning and even be the ones to give Rei her transformation pen instead of Luna.

I will say one thing I am excited to see in Crystal with regards to this duo is finally seeing which one is which of the two. To quote wikimoon.

Phobos and Deimos were almost identical in their humanoid forms, with the only difference being the color of their clothing. However, in the artbook Original Picture Collection Volume IV, Phobos was in the purple clothing and Deimos in red, but in Original Picture Collection Volume V, the colors were reversed. Since the manga pages were black and white, it is therefore impossible to know which one is actually which.

http://wikimoon.org/index.php?title=Phobos

I still think it is ridiculous for Naoko Takeuchi to be so inconsistent in the colors of both of them and labeling who is who.


Once when I was trying to come up with my own reboot of Sailor Moon, I was going to have the crows give her the pen. Not in their human forms but they'd drop a feather or two that would become the pen. i came up with unique ways for all to get their items but I'm a little fuzzy on what I was going to do with Ami and Mako. Ami I think I was going to use a pen her father had given her once and it transforms when she awakens. Mako, I really don't remember my ideas lol


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Is SMC really that similar to the manga?
PostPosted: Fri Jun 30, 2017 8:41 pm 
Luna
Luna
User avatar
Years of membershipYears of membershipYears of membershipYears of membershipYears of membershipYears of membershipYears of membershipYears of membership
Joined: May 31, 2009
Posts: 634
On a visual level, when Crystal tries to replicate a scene from the manga the end result feels very different to me even though they are technically similar.

I see a panel from the manga and it's appealing, and artistic, and atmospheric, and the characters are emoting properly, and you get the relationship between two characters just by the subtle way they gaze at each other. And then I see a screencap of Crystal recreating the same panel and there's nothing there and I'm just...

Image


Is anyone else experiencing this?

_________________
Worst episode of '90s Sailor Moon >>>>> Best episode of Sailor Moon CrystalImage


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Is SMC really that similar to the manga?
PostPosted: Fri Jun 30, 2017 9:12 pm 
Solaris Luna
Solaris Luna
User avatar
Years of membershipYears of membershipYears of membershipYears of membershipYears of membership
Joined: Mar 08, 2012
Posts: 2528
Gender: Agender
Every. Single. Time. It always just ends up looking like mediocre fan art. Crystal would be better off not trying to replicate the manga panel-by-panel but it continues to be its own worst enemy.

_________________
I will right wrongs and triumph over evil, and that means Trump! #NotMyPresident

Image


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Is SMC really that similar to the manga?
PostPosted: Mon Jul 03, 2017 11:05 pm 
Luna
Luna
User avatar
Years of membershipYears of membershipYears of membershipYears of membershipYears of membershipYears of membership
Joined: Aug 18, 2011
Posts: 898
Location: Tennessee
Gender: male
Crystal isn't an exact duplicate of the manga; no. But it is much more faithful to the source material than the original anime was. All things considered, I have been pleased with Crystal. I had my gripes in the first season, but I thought seasons 2 and 3 were well done. With season 3 in particular showing improvements in the art and animation quality. People can nitpick all they want, sure. Lots of things could have been improved. But no adaption is perfect. Even FMA:B, which is widely regarded as one of the best animated series ever, still wasn't a 100% perfect adaption. Those that want a perfect adaption are setting their expectations way too high.


Top
 Profile  
 
Display posts from previous:  Sort by  
Post new topic Reply to topic  [ 26 posts ] 

All times are UTC


Who is online

Moonies browsing this forum: No registered moonies and 4 guests



Search for:
Jump to:  
Powered by phpBB

contact forum administrator