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 Post subject: Re: I think Toei knows how badly they screwed up...
PostPosted: Sun Oct 29, 2017 6:38 am 
Planeta
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Neon Genesis wrote:
I think it is an unrealistic expectation to demand Toei and Naoko to transfer control of the series over to any outsiders especially given their history of contention when outsiders like Ikuhara have tried to steer the direction of the series in a way that Toei and Naoko disapprove of. I think trying to compare Toei and Naoko to CLAMP and Madhouse is an apples to oranges situation. I have not known CLAMP to show any interest in the Sailor Moon series. They seem to have their hands full with their own properties and creations that I doubt they have the time or energy to take on another creator's work. I also have not heard of a situation like this before where a manga author just gives up control of her creation to another author, so I don't think this is a scenario likely to happen. None of us know why Naoko hasn't created any new manga content or what goes on her private life to judge her and we as fans are not entitled to new content from Naoko or Toei.


For anyone thinking I am judging or disrespecting Naoko Takeuchi:

Kindly go back to my original post. I am not judging Naoko Takeuchi for not wanting to revitalize her franchise. She is a free, independent woman. If she has no wish to write a new story or revitalize "Sailor Moon," then more power to her. I have simply made an observation.

I did make a comparison between Naoko Takeuchi and CLAMP, but that is because a poster (not me) mentioned the new, upcoming "Cardcaptor Sakura" anime and compared the current status of "Cardcaptor Sakura" to the current status of "Sailor Moon."

I also have *never* suggested or implied in this thread that CLAMP should take ownership of "Sailor Moon." I did create a poll a few weeks ago (different thread)... but that was just for fun.

To further clarify, I, by no means, intended to disrespect, judge, or vilify Naoko Takeuchi. I apologize if I conveyed the impression that I did.

On a different note, I am actually agreeing with you:

Neon Genesis wrote:
... and we as fans are not entitled to new content from Naoko or Toei.


Clow wrote:
...so many "Sailor Moon" fans seem to feel entitled.

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 Post subject: Re: I think Toei knows how badly they screwed up...
PostPosted: Sun Oct 29, 2017 7:13 am 
Stella
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Neon Genesis wrote:
I think it is an unrealistic expectation to demand Toei and Naoko to transfer control of the series over to any outsiders especially given their history of contention when outsiders like Ikuhara have tried to steer the direction of the series in a way that Toei and Naoko disapprove of. I think trying to compare Toei and Naoko to CLAMP and Madhouse is an apples to oranges situation. I have not known CLAMP to show any interest in the Sailor Moon series. They seem to have their hands full with their own properties and creations that I doubt they have the time or energy to take on another creator's work. I also have not heard of a situation like this before where a manga author just gives up control of her creation to another author, so I don't think this is a scenario likely to happen. None of us know why Naoko hasn't created any new manga content or what goes on her private life to judge her and we as fans are not entitled to new content from Naoko or Toei.

Actually I don't think that Naoko Takeuchi disapproved of how Ikuhara was handling the series rather Toei did especially by SuperS when they were just destroying the franchise by making it more childish etc.

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 Post subject: Re: I think Toei knows how badly they screwed up...
PostPosted: Sun Oct 29, 2017 12:27 pm 
Aurorae Lunares
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Can we please stop pretending a sequel is even possible? The Cardcaptors anime is base on the new manga arc . Dragon Ball Super had Ddragon Ball z kai, and was being produced by the original creator. (I think )Also Cardcaprtors is being made by a different studio. Like I said if Naoko wanted to continue the manga or the anime I will be for it . Until that happened, the possibility is zero. Also if we do get a sequel its more like we get one for crystal than classic.( Due to the facet Crystal is more recent)


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 Post subject: Re: I think Toei knows how badly they screwed up...
PostPosted: Sun Oct 29, 2017 12:59 pm 
Aurorae Lunares
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Sailor Moon and Sakura are two different mangas. Naoko has her every right to end Sailor Moon at Stars arc. We already witnessed her growth from an ordinary guardian to a cosmic level guardian.
We can hope that in 30th anniversary, or 32nd anniversary, we will have another OVA, another movie...
Toei can do anything to milk this franchise. There will be fans who buy it, after all.
In my opinion, SMC is just a way to promote SM. Who never knows SM can watch SMC, and discover SM90's after.

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 Post subject: Re: I think Toei knows how badly they screwed up...
PostPosted: Sun Oct 29, 2017 2:04 pm 
Stella Nova
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imaginationgirl wrote:
Dragon Ball Super had Ddragon Ball z kai, and was being produced by the original creator. (I think )


Akira Toriyama had nothing to do with Kai, that was all on Bandai because he originally refused their offer to want to do more Dragon Ball stuff and it was one of his former editors that suggested Kai.

https://youtu.be/Jd0ocHDfYgg?t=6m28s (translated from French subs, make sure the closed captions are on for English)

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 Post subject: Re: I think Toei knows how badly they screwed up...
PostPosted: Sun Oct 29, 2017 3:14 pm 
Planeta
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^Masami Kuromada (Saint Seiya) did the same. He allowed other mangakas, writers, executives continue or expand the story he wrote. I believe "The Lost Canvas" and "Omega" are spin-offs based on the original series he created.

But bottom line is, we are not entitled to a new "Sailor Moon" manga or anime, unless the creator chooses to give us something new.

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 Post subject: Re: I think Toei knows how badly they screwed up...
PostPosted: Sun Oct 29, 2017 3:36 pm 
Stella Nova
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^Lost Canvas was a weird case because the manga for that was originally supposed to run simultaneously with Kurumada's Next Dimension manga as two versions of the same sequel story but it eventually became non-canon later in it's run.

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 Post subject: Re: I think Toei knows how badly they screwed up...
PostPosted: Mon Oct 30, 2017 3:34 am 
Solaris Luna
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Lol. I'm guilty of feeling entitled. I agree they don't owe us anything but I do roll my eyes at "restoring" a franchise for trolling purposes. Meh, Im fine with Crystal, it could have been better but we could have gotten something really bad too, Like Sailor Moon Cure Plus or something Pretty Cure like.

Let's just keep a shred of hope that this movie will be decent enough to merit a decent Stars film.

Hm, I really wonder when we will hear something about? All the not any time soon..hurts my moony ego...hahha


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 Post subject: Re: I think Toei knows how badly they screwed up...
PostPosted: Mon Oct 30, 2017 1:44 pm 
Aurorae Lunares
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NJ_ wrote:
imaginationgirl wrote:
Dragon Ball Super had Ddragon Ball z kai, and was being produced by the original creator. (I think )


Akira Toriyama had nothing to do with Kai, that was all on Bandai because he originally refused their offer to want to do more Dragon Ball stuff and it was one of his former editors that suggested Kai.

https://youtu.be/Jd0ocHDfYgg?t=6m28s (translated from French subs, make sure the closed captions are on for English)

I wasn't talking about kai .I was talking about Dragon ball supers.


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 Post subject: Re: I think Toei knows how badly they screwed up...
PostPosted: Mon Oct 30, 2017 2:45 pm 
Galaxias
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Clow wrote:
On a different note, I am actually agreeing with you:
Neon Genesis wrote:
... and we as fans are not entitled to new content from Naoko or Toei.

Clow wrote:
...so many "Sailor Moon" fans seem to feel entitled.

I think that if Naoko walked in a car salon and was offered a Porsche produced two decades ago with some new paint to hide all the rust, but priced as new, she would be the first one to whine and complain about how she is entitled for a completely new Porsche with all the newest technologies, new engine, and new everything for her money.
Yet Naoko by some reason feels she is still entitled for never stopping torrents of fan money for milking and selling them the same (repainted and retouched by outsourced freelancers) product made two decades ago, without ever lifting her finger to produce anything new. ^_^

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 Post subject: Re: I think Toei knows how badly they screwed up...
PostPosted: Mon Oct 30, 2017 3:41 pm 
Aurorae Lunares
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Naok is entitled, to any royalties to sailor moon. Since it is her characters and stories.


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 Post subject: Re: I think Toei knows how badly they screwed up...
PostPosted: Mon Oct 30, 2017 3:53 pm 
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imaginationgirl wrote:
Naok is entitled, to any royalties to sailor moon. Since it is her characters and stories.


Yeah.

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 Post subject: Re: I think Toei knows how badly they screwed up...
PostPosted: Mon Oct 30, 2017 4:55 pm 
Galaxias
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imaginationgirl wrote:
Naok is entitled, to any royalties to sailor moon. Since it is her characters and stories.

How is that even relevant to anything said above? Porsche company is entitled to all royalties coming from their brand - does that automatically mean people are obliged to buy old rusty cars repainted and priced as new, and have no right ("not entitled", if you wish) to ask for new cars with all the new technologies for their money? For sure Naoko will get all the money from crappy outsourced Sailor Moon products, even though she never is going to produce anything new. My comment is not on whether she is entitled for those money or not.

My comment is about people buying such products, and explaining why they are "entitled" to ask for new and improved products - and not paying their money otherwise.

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 Post subject: Re: I think Toei knows how badly they screwed up...
PostPosted: Mon Oct 30, 2017 5:39 pm 
Aurorae Lunares
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Maraviollantes wrote:
imaginationgirl wrote:
Naok is entitled, to any royalties to sailor moon. Since it is her characters and stories.

How is that even relevant to anything said above? Porsche company is entitled to all royalties coming from their brand - does that automatically mean people are obliged to buy old rusty cars repainted and priced as new, and have no right ("not entitled", if you wish) to ask for new cars with all the new technologies for their money? For sure Naoko will get all the money from crappy outsourced Sailor Moon products, even though she never is going to produce anything new. My comment is not on whether she will get those money or not.

My comment is about people buying such products, and explaining why they are "entitled" to ask for new and improved products - and not paying their money otherwise.

Honestlyy, I really don't se your point.If some one sees a sed car painted as an old one . That sucks,but here is thing the person doesn't have too buy it . The person can go to another car dealership. Your right no ones is entitled to a new car. Just like the company isn't entitled to the money . So sailor moon fans are not entitled to new anime, They also don't have to buy any of the products. That show the free market works.No one is entitled to anything. Sure also people are allowed toaskedd,but are not entitled to receive it.


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 Post subject: Re: I think Toei knows how badly they screwed up...
PostPosted: Mon Oct 30, 2017 5:56 pm 
Galaxias
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imaginationgirl wrote:
If some one sees a sed car painted as an old one . That sucks,but here is thing the person doesn't have too buy it . The person can go to another car dealership. Your right no ones is entitled to a new car. Just like the company isn't entitled to the money . So sailor moon fans are not entitled to new anime, They also don't have to buy any of the products. That show the free market works.No one is entitled to anything. Sure also people are allowed toaskedd,but are not entitled to receive it.

imaginationgirl wrote:
Honestlyy, I really don't se your point.

Quite on the contrary, I see that you understood my point very well.

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 Post subject: Re: I think Toei knows how badly they screwed up...
PostPosted: Mon Oct 30, 2017 7:11 pm 
Aurorae Lunares
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Why is every thread on this so called "fan" site turned into an anti Naoko bashing thread? Why would anyone in the Sailor Moon fandom want a sequel anyway? Everyone would just whine and moan about how terrible it is and how selfish and greedy Naoko is. Grow up.


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 Post subject: Re: I think Toei knows how badly they screwed up...
PostPosted: Mon Oct 30, 2017 7:52 pm 
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Maraviollantes wrote:
I think that if Naoko walked in a car salon and was offered a Porsche produced two decades ago with some new paint to hide all the rust, but priced as new, she would be the first one to whine and complain about how she is entitled for a completely new Porsche with all the newest technologies, new engine, and new everything for her money.


Hypothetically speaking, yes, that's correct. She created a famous series, she is rich, and, therefore, she is entitled to spend her own money as she wishes.


Maraviollantes wrote:
Yet Naoko by some reason feels she is still entitled for never stopping torrents of fan money for milking and selling them the same (repainted and retouched by outsourced freelancers) product made two decades ago, without ever lifting her finger to produce anything new. ^_^


Hypothetically speaking, yes, that's correct. As long as fans buy BSSM merchandise and BSSM merchandise sells, there is no reason to change the business model or how the business operates. Nobody is being "forced" to buy Sailor Moon merchandise. People buy "Sailor Moon" merch because they want to. By the end of the day, what matters to the big executives (e.g. Bandai) is that merchandise sells and huge profits are made.

Please allow me to apologize if I am sounding cynical (it is not my intention), but that is how gigantic, international businesses operate.

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 Post subject: Re: I think Toei knows how badly they screwed up...
PostPosted: Mon Oct 30, 2017 8:41 pm 
Aurorae Lunares
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It's almost as if this is how capitalism works.


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 Post subject: Re: I think Toei knows how badly they screwed up...
PostPosted: Mon Oct 30, 2017 8:49 pm 
Aurorae Lunares
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Clow wrote:
Maraviollantes wrote:
I think that if Naoko walked in a car salon and was offered a Porsche produced two decades ago with some new paint to hide all the rust, but priced as new, she would be the first one to whine and complain about how she is entitled for a completely new Porsche with all the newest technologies, new engine, and new everything for her money.


Hypothetically speaking, yes, that's correct. She created a famous series, she is rich, and, therefore, she is entitled to spend her own money as she wishes.


Maraviollantes wrote:
Yet Naoko by some reason feels she is still entitled for never stopping torrents of fan money for milking and selling them the same (repainted and retouched by outsourced freelancers) product made two decades ago, without ever lifting her finger to produce anything new. ^_^


Hypothetically speaking, yes, that's correct. As long as fans buy BSSM merchandise and BSSM merchandise sells, there is no reason to change the business model or how the business operates. Nobody is being "forced" to buy Sailor Moon merchandise. People buy "Sailor Moon" merch because they want to. By the end of the day, what matters to the big executives (e.g. Bandai) is that merchandise sells and huge profits are made.

Please allow me to apologize if I am sounding cynical (it is not my intention), but that is how gigantic, international businesses operate.

Thats what confuse me about his post. No one is force to buy anything.


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 Post subject: Re: I think Toei knows how badly they screwed up...
PostPosted: Mon Oct 30, 2017 8:56 pm 
Solaris Luna
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I think we all need something lol. If it wasn't for us, Sailor Moon wouldn't be as popular as it is today. The fans carry this 20+ year series through pure love and dedication. Naoko definitely deserves her just reward but it's not without noting the "help" she got along the way of creating Sailor Moon which would have been something not like it was today without the benefit of others. Still love Naoko and recognize her as the inspiration behind a classic show. Anyways, I really love the Porsche jokes. They are sooo funny.


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 Post subject: Re: I think Toei knows how badly they screwed up...
PostPosted: Mon Oct 30, 2017 9:10 pm 
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Star Angel Haruki wrote:
The fans carry this 20+ year series through pure love and dedication.


That is why it exists.

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 Post subject: Re: I think Toei knows how badly they screwed up...
PostPosted: Mon Oct 30, 2017 9:34 pm 
Columnae Creationis
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Clow wrote:
Star Angel Haruki wrote:
The fans carry this 20+ year series through pure love and dedication.


That is why it exists.

So does this site & all of us wondering about it here at present. :ohmy:

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 Post subject: Re: I think Toei knows how badly they screwed up...
PostPosted: Mon Oct 30, 2017 9:52 pm 
Planeta
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I stopped supporting Sailor Moon a long time ago (and CLAMP, too, for that matter). I only watch anime that is available on Netflix or streamed for free on the Internet, and that's it.

If I am remotely interested in reading any manga... I go to the library.

I am not sure if I regret having spent money on "Sailor Moon" when I discovered the franchise as a kid... maybe I do, maybe I do not.

As for this site, I come here for the nostalgia ("Sailor Moon" did bring me happiness when I was a kid) and because it is fun.

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 Post subject: Re: I think Toei knows how badly they screwed up...
PostPosted: Mon Oct 30, 2017 10:45 pm 
Solaris Luna
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Clow wrote:
I stopped supporting Sailor Moon a long time ago (and CLAMP, too, for that matter). I only watch anime that is available on Netflix or streamed for free on the Internet, and that's it.

If I am remotely interested in reading any manga... I go to the library.

I am not sure if I regret having spent money on "Sailor Moon" when I discovered the franchise as a kid... maybe I do, maybe I do not.

As for this site, I come here for the nostalgia ("Sailor Moon" did bring me happiness when I was a kid) and because it is fun.


You're one of the other funny posters too. Lol what made me say those things....and I believe it was you that posted a show that looked almost exactly like Sailor V...idk if it was Poturine or something but I can clearly see where SM was headed before it got thrown into purifier.

I laugh at Crystal sometimes thinking about that PGSM disclaimer when it says "Dedicated to Sailor Moon fans everywhere!"


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 Post subject: Re: I think Toei knows how badly they screwed up...
PostPosted: Mon Oct 30, 2017 10:53 pm 
Solaris Luna
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Star Angel Haruki wrote:
Anyways, I really love the Porsche jokes. They are sooo funny.


I've got another one. How many Porsche cars does Naoko use to screw in a light bulb?

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 Post subject: Re: I think Toei knows how badly they screwed up...
PostPosted: Mon Oct 30, 2017 11:27 pm 
Solaris Luna
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FloraKiraraHime wrote:
Star Angel Haruki wrote:
Anyways, I really love the Porsche jokes. They are sooo funny.


I've got another one. How many Porsche cars does Naoko use to screw in a light bulb?

I swear if anyone finds a pic of Naoko going Porche crazy I am going to pass out in laughter.


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 Post subject: Re: I think Toei knows how badly they screwed up...
PostPosted: Tue Oct 31, 2017 12:10 am 
Columnae Creationis
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Star Angel Haruki wrote:
FloraKiraraHime wrote:
Star Angel Haruki wrote:
Anyways, I really love the Porsche jokes. They are sooo funny.


I've got another one. How many Porsche cars does Naoko use to screw in a light bulb?

I swear if anyone finds a pic of Naoko going Porche crazy I am going to pass out in laughter.

Perhaps she should write a manga about Porsche & sports cars in general - she may have the passion to do it! :D

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 Post subject: Re: I think Toei knows how badly they screwed up...
PostPosted: Tue Oct 31, 2017 12:45 am 
Planeta
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I am surprised to learn that people find me funny. I consider myself so serious... sometimes boring. :grey: :sick:

Star Angel Haruki wrote:
....and I believe it was you that posted a show that looked almost exactly like Sailor V...idk if it was Poturine or something


THAT was me. And I was serious about it.

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 Post subject: Re: I think Toei knows how badly they screwed up...
PostPosted: Fri Nov 03, 2017 5:03 am 
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Crystal was doomed from the start, as the manga is trash, and any faithful adaptation of it would result in a cheesy crapfest.
There is no way to make a good series that's close to the original manga, simply because the manga is not good, period.
If anything, apart from the horrible animation, the only real "mess up" from Toei's part was to include god awful fan ideas, like that stupid shittenou-pairing fiasco. Everything else that was wrong about Crystal was essentialy the manga's fault. Even with good animation, the story is just terrible.
That said, Naoko doesn't owe sh*t to anyone. If she wants to spend the rest of her life collecting her coins from the franchise that revolutionized the magical girl genre, which she created, while doing nothing 24/7, then let the good sis live, because that's honestly GOALS AF.
As for Toei... I think they just need better professionals working for them, and they need to STOP including fan ideas into their series. Fans are not good writers, are not talented, and all their ideas are stupid.
If they get better writers, better animators, and stop getting ideas from fan feedback, all of their "nostalgia" titles, such as Dragon Ball Super, Saint Seiya SOG and Sailor Moon Crystal would be so much better.
With good writers, a Sailor Moon sequel, past Stars, could totally happen, is not like coming up with a new villain would be that hard. And I'm sure if they approach Naoko with a good written, coherent, interesting plot, she'll approve it.
She approved that one-dollar-looking live action series, and actual condoms, I think it's safe to say she really is not as picky as fans claim she is. If it has not happened yet, is because Toei's writers' ideas were just too shitty, even for Naoko's standards.
So yes, on that regard, I think Toei needs to step up their game.

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 Post subject: Re: I think Toei knows how badly they screwed up...
PostPosted: Fri Nov 03, 2017 5:21 am 
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^I think Naoko intended to pair the senshi with the shitennou. Or at least Venus with Kunzite. So it's not fan feedback.

^As for PGSM, which I do not like, I believe Naoko said she loved tokusatsu and intended "Sailor Moon" to be originally a toku show (much like "Bishoujo Kamen Poitrine"). :orly:

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