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 Post subject: In season 1 I was okay with the senshi not killig them
PostPosted: Sun Dec 17, 2017 1:41 pm 
Aurorae Lunares
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I might minority I was okay with the senshi not killing the shitenou . I didn't think it made them less powerful. Lot case context was different. They still defeated them.

Rei defeating the Jadiete . . Still almost burned him. The only reason he got away because he teleported

Ami didn't kill anyone solo in the manga for the first arc.4
Jupiter they switched kinda tactics. In the manga it was the youma that was the one who possessed the princess. In crystal it was Neptunes shadow. So in episode 5 it was Jupiter battling the youma. The youma got killed .'

Venus kills
Venus in crystal was probably never intended to kill them in the first place. She knew they were Endyimons gaurdians and the past lovers. So I think she wasn trying to dee f there was a way to bring them back to normal. She defeted Zoisite .
Sailor Planet attack they all new that they were endiymons gaurdians. So they tried to give their memories back.


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 Post subject: Re: In season 1 I was okay with the senshi not killig them
PostPosted: Mon Dec 18, 2017 7:07 am 
Luna Crescens
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The problem is not that it made the senshi seem less powerful. There was no reason to keep the Shittenou alive in the first place since they died anyway a few episodes later. Their presence added nothing to the story except for the horribly written romance wich had little to no effect on the characters.


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 Post subject: Re: In season 1 I was okay with the senshi not killig them
PostPosted: Mon Dec 18, 2017 2:36 pm 
Aurorae Lunares
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Zyvik wrote:
The problem is not that it made the senshi seem less powerful. There was no reason to keep the Shittenou alive in the first place since they died anyway a few episodes later. Their presence added nothing to the story except for the horribly written romance wich had little to no effect on the characters.

Heres the thing it dosen't make them lss powerful. Because one was because he teloport . The others were just not trying to kill them. Why senshi x shitenou could been handle better. I think it did gave them more background , and had some purpose. That is my oppinion though


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 Post subject: Re: In season 1 I was okay with the senshi not killig them
PostPosted: Mon Dec 18, 2017 3:48 pm 
Lumen Cinereum
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For my own two cents, it always seemed very abrupt and violent to me in the manga (coming from the perspective of the '90s anime first). The Shitennou hadn't really pulled lethal force and in the case of Sailor Mars and Sailor Jupiter it was their first time using their powers (though Jupiter does use 'stun lock' type tactics on Nephrite). On top of that, the Sailor Senshi in general had a minimum of information about what was happening.

And with Nephrite, it happens because he makes a tactical blunder no half-decent soldier in any real war would ever make, by announcing that what they destroyed was just his shadow, and stepping out from cover. The result? He gets his face melted! That's like a soldier announcing to the enemy "Hey, you didn't get me! Hey, look over here!" and walking out in front of a machine gun nest. Did Nephrite not expect a response of lethal force, or what?

So honestly it didn't really strike me as 'powerful' much less empowering, as rather more like a couple of teenage girls getting handed loaded guns with no instructions and shooting the first guy that jump-scares them because they know something bad is going on but they don't really know what.

The first debateably lethal force pulled by an enemy that I recall is later, when Kunzite freezes the Tokyo waterfront. In real life that would almost certainly get people killed, but the manga doesn't really clarify one way or the other (hooray pacing) while Crystal shows those people recovering.

The first flat-out murder performed by an enemy, besides Beryl (more so in flashbacks), is Koan burning somebody at Rei's school to death, I think. (The manga is downright brutal.)

Honestly I have zero problems with the Shitennou not getting killed by the Inner Senshi. The romance plot I could've imagined being interesting, but it didn't get developed very well (how do Ami and Zoisite feel about each other, for instance? Did they ever really exchange any dialogue of note?) and came out awkward. They barely developed the idea any further than what one can imagine from the chapter cover in the manga that suggests the whole thing- a very superficial story. Contrast even Reika and Motoki's brief romance episodes from the '90s anime (far from my favorite pairing, nor the most developed) and there's more depth even with them.

With Mamoru and Usagi, the past life romance works because we see all the stuff about how they interact in their present life (plus we have some details about how it went in their past life, that they were pushing past political boundaries just to meet at all. In the '90s anime it seemed he was invited to a ball, but still). It's shorter and less developed in the manga and crystal, but there's still something to it, a lot of little moments. But with the Sen/Shi pairings they don't get any of that kind of little interaction so we really have almost no idea what they think of each other, as even their combat is brief and vague.

Also, I do think one disempowering thing it does to the Inner Senshi, that is maybe more objectionable to me, is that it leads to that scene where they watch the Shitennou get killed and them all stumble over weeping helplessly. But that's not really an unreasonable thing on their part insomuch as it's kind of a butt-pull thing by Metallia- I mean, what stops Metallia from doing that to the Inner Senshi? She didn't just detonate little time bombs in their chests, she blasted a smoking crater into the ground with a big purple energy beam! But she can't just do it again, or aim it a little bit further over?? It's a very contrived death that, if it happened to a tabletop RPG like Dungeons of Dragons, would make the players quit in disgust. "Rocks fall, everybody (in the Shitennou's party) dies." It's so arbitrary and stupid.

Basically, I don't disapprove of what Crystal season 1 tried to do, but I do kinda disapprove of how it did it because there wasn't enough new development or depth to the story. They should've added more episodes to develop that arc, and concluded it in a less arbitrary blunt sort of way. You can still have the Shitennou die in the end I guess (says the person writing a '90s anime fanfic where Crystal Tokyo-era Naru tries to resurrect them, and that has a whole long section about their heroics during the fall of the Golden Kingdom), but it could be a whole cool "passing the torch" kind of dramatic moment, instead of this arbitrary explosion.

Neither the Manga nor Crystal's Shitennou really hold a candle to the '90s anime's Shitennou arc in my opinion, but I think the best part, which mostly survives in both versions, is Kunzite (and also the others in Crystal) finding out their own backstory, and then helping Mamoru as ghosts in the battle with Metallia. Those are the only really cool parts for them in either of those versions.

Don't get me wrong, the Manga and Crystal do have lots of other cool bits. I love the bit with the sword from the moon, the Holy Blade, and in the manga I like that it's Venus who kills Beryl with it (and that honestly seems a lot more reasonable). In crystal I like the scene of Umino acting spooky with the bush hands (it was in the manga but not nearly as played up), and I like that Usagi simply falls asleep rather than getting drunk at the Diamond Kingdom embassy ball. I also like the bit where Mamoru punches Zoisite for some reason, and the sort of whack impact effects (with sound an animation) they add to things like the Moon Tiara. And the very core, a lot of Usagi's story (especially her and Luna's introduction), are good enough in the manga that the '90s anime reused it almost as-is, so it owes that to the manga (and perhaps it's entire existence).

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 Post subject: Re: In season 1 I was okay with the senshi not killig them
PostPosted: Thu Dec 28, 2017 2:25 am 
Lumen Cinereum
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I more or less agree with Mitsukara. I didn't mind the Shitennou living but I was disappointed in how it played out. It was like "great start, really clumsy finish." They're final deaths (assuming they did die) should have been more of a big deal than just being blasted and the Senshi should have dealt with the emotional fallout more.


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