Sailor Moon Forum

J-Manga, if you have them "liked" on Facebook, recently had a Translation contest to be judged by William Flanagan. The source material was from something called "Young-kun," a simple 4 panel with simply drawn illustrations, and an easy to do amount of text. I whipped off a translation and sent it in within an hour of the contest announcement, but had to wait until today to find out how that went.

Here's the text and my translation alongside:

isso kono mama (most of this was in kana, btw)
I put this as "Might as well leave it be" - this is the title of the strip they had up.

Panel 1:
minna to machiawase shiteru ano o-mise
"I'm going to meet up with everyone at that store"
Maybe this was more or less right. Everyone's waiting at the store, I'm going to meet up with them.

Panel 2:
sagashite n dakedo mitsukara nakute
"Even though I looked around, I couldn't find it."

Panel 3:
mitsukan nakute
"It wasn't to be found"
Note here the same verb as in panel 2 about "mitsuka-" - finding something - is used differently in this context. First he was looking for something and didn't find it, and now it can't be found.

Panel 4:
iie kono mama mitsukan nakya ii na to omottari suru
Sometimes I think "No, it's OK like this even if I don't find it."
Here's why I did that line like this: -tari suru is the Sometimes Do verb suffix. The TO particle indicates a quotation of some sort. And then the rest follows as shown.

None of the translations William Flanagan, the judge for this contest, got this line even close to being right. They changed it, not even getting the verb usage right here. I'll correct myself and say one got close on that last line but left out the quotation part.

The idea I got from this is the writer is easy-going, and even if he doesn't make it to meet up with everyone, life is still OK. He just went for a nice walk anyway. There was no rush of everyday life, no hurry.

Was I hoping to win something? Well, sure. But also this was a chance to see if he translates even as well as I expect of him, or as well as the work that was done by Studio Proteus on manga published in the past by Dark Horse, which I was able to check as being right on.

You can't just change a translation on a whim. This shows to me sloppiness.

So in short, yes, Sailor Moon fans, you have reason to bitch and complain about the new edition's translation. I don't have time to go through with a comb, comparing the Japanese original with Tokyopop's and now this new edition. I'm sure there are people doing that.

Also, you may even want to point out that perhaps my translation had its shortcomings, but from my experience, I was as faithful to the original as possible. And that's what people deserve.

I'll still be buying the manga...

I still buy the manga, but I only really read MD's fan translation cause the Official Release has to much Spark Ring Wide Pressure and I live more nervously! Bros, I wasn't even able to finish Vol. 2 until 3 came out.

I think your analysis would be more illuminating if you posted what Flanagan translated, or what he chose as the best translations. I see the original and I see your translation, but I can't see how they're better than what he used because you didn't post anything.

I agree that he's a sub-par translator for the most part, though, based on his work so far in the reprint.

I remember Nangbaby suggesting someone start a website to help get the word out about this. One of the few times I agreed with her on anything, but this is a great idea. I'd even be willing to purchase the domain name if anyone decides to put this together. We really should take a stand if we want a quality product.

What she said. We need to compare his work/their work to yours in order to see the whole picture.

oh, yes.. let's tell peopel not to buy it, so SM fails in the US and we never get a redub..

The only reason nangbaby want to spread the word was so the manga would not sell well and lead to no redub

You're looking at it all wrong. It's not to get people to stop buying the manga, but to simply inform them on the shoddiness of the product and let them decide for themselves whether or not they want to buy it. I'm still buying the manga knowing full well of the unreasonable literalism and lackluster quality put into its translation.

i still don't think pointing out all the mistakes will help the sales..

There are a few different error reports out there, namely on Miss Dream, Moonkitty.net, and my own blog. Unless you mean something different?

Like Sabrblade said, this isn't about telling people not to buy the manga. It's about getting the word out there about the less than perfect product we're spending our money on. And if the manga fails in the US, then it wouldn't be our fault. The blame would lie on Kodansha USA since they're the ones who decided to do things on the cheap. Anyway, whether or not the manga succeeds in the US doesn't automatically determine whether or not the anime comes back. Look at Cardcaptor Sakura.

Mistakes should be pointed out so consumers make informed decisions whether to purchase shoddy products or not.

So what did Flanaghan right in his translations?

That's the thing. He didn't offer his own translation. What I gave you above was exactly what everyone was asked to work on. What will happen though is he'll even pick one of the crappy stuff that was just re-written instead of translated and use it when the book that includes that strip is published and use it in the book. I think the selected winner gets a copy of that book, too. Or was it a crapload of J-manga points. Whatever. It's not like there was a material prize for winning.

The ones he picked as winners was an insult to those of us who do turn out decent translations. They just made up stuff to fit the illustrations and that's wrong. It's an insult to those who actually turned in a proper translation and then he couldn't even pick one for a correct Literal translation.

By the way, what's up with those posts of animated GIFs and people clapping? It seems like those posts didn't really have anything to offer. If you don't really care, why bother posting stuff like that?

What I'm not saying is not buy the new releases but instead pester Kodansha USA to stop using him for the rest of the books. Get a translator familiar with the material and actually knows it.

Again, what did the ones he picked say? We want to compare those works to yours.

As for what the animated clapping GIFs are for, the people who posted them are applauding you and your words. Isn't that kind of obvious?

I liked Miss Dream's editorial, and I really enjoy your blog, but the amount of stink, personal bias, and beating of dead horse that comes from Moonkitty regarding the manga turns me off.

Miss Dream and Moon Kitty are pretty much in agreement though. What is it about Moon Kitty you didn't like?

Mainly the constant tweeting/facebook posting criticizing certain aspects of the grammar that where perfectly fine in my opinion. Just because you've never heard the term "putting on airs" that doesn't mean you should make 5 post about it and a meme.

Mind you, this trend has receded quite a bit with volume 3. But for a month or two it was rather annoying.

I do believe he succeeded in getting a number of people to avoid the manga altogether, which is a real shame in my opinion. Flawed though it may be, it's still far better than what we had and still very enjoyable.

It's true, but like Brad, I personally feel that they speak way too formally for 14 year old girls. That's certainly one pro to the Tokyopop translation: The girls spoke like girls their age, and even in Japanese, the speech is very informal. I wish it would have been translated that way in the Kodansha version.

For this reason, I still enjoy reading my Tokyopop books. I am buying the Kodansha version for collecting only. The dialogue is too formal and stilted in my opinion.

I don't know Brad. He seems like a mostly positive/kind-natured individual. I've followed the site for a number of years with mixed emotions about his opinions/preference for the dub. I just think he took his criticism too far and turned many of the more casual fans off. Most of whom will never discover Miss Dream's translation or hunt down the previous volumes, therefore never experiencing he manga.

As for the dialogue seeming too formal, that's all subjective.

His site is generally geared toward dub fans anyway, so even if there are those few that are missing out, they might not like it anyway.

As for that statement about the formality of language being subjective, the grammar nazi in me will not be touching that with a ten foot pole

I'm the new guy here, so I'm sure this post may get me into some trouble.

But as I am definitely not a "N00B" to Sailor Moon, I feel I should say something here.

To be perfectly honest, I'm glad and excited that Sailor Moon is getting a re-release here in the U.S. again after what, 10 years? I understand that certain people expect certain things and expect them to be completely perfect in accordance to *their* ideals. But while I'm in agreement that mistakes that could have been avoided or fixed (i.e. "Princess Beryl, Queen of the Dark Kingdom"/"Spark Ring Wide Pressure"), I still fully support the manga and am very proud of the fact that it's doing so damn well. I hear it's winning awards, even.

But frankly, I'm greatly saddened and disgusted that some of these same people who call themselves "fans" seem to be doing everything in their power to minimize the impact of the re-release while under the guise of supporting it and yet, tearing every aspect of it apart in the same bloody breath.

I used to enjoy Brad (MoonKitty)'s site quite a bit, but I'm not very crazy about him now, considering it seems he's a very staunch supporter of Miss Dream -- whom I don't even consider to be a fan at all. I won't divulge my opinion of *that* site here, but suffice it to say, I won't go near it with a 10,000-foot pole, nor will I support any of her works in the slightest bit.

I'm sure these guys are all wonderful people in life, but honestly....can't we just enjoy the fact that it's being re-released and is being handled *far* better then MIXX handled it, instead of say...rushing out a scantilated version mere *months* before the actual re-release was, and then claiming that version is superior to what Kodansha's is?

I for one, will be continuing to support Kodansha. Their version might not be perfect, but it's better then anything I've yet to see, including other people's garbage.

Yeah, I'm a little disappointed that Flanagan doesn't seem to have a very good grasp of Sailor Moon, but I suspect that to him, a job's a job, and he's probably not terribly interested or has a lot of time to devote to delving neck deep into the mythos and story or even reading up on the actual attack names, even.

My apologies if any of this comes as heavy-handed but I'm tired of people ripping apart the new translation --- people like this aren't being "informatively critical" - they're just being critical just because it doesn't fit with their own ideals of how the manga should look or read.

Frankly, I was able to perfectly understand why they spoke the way they spoke. But then again, I have a relatively good grasp of grammar and the English language, plus I'm 30 years old, which might also be why I understood the phrase "Putting on airs" that MoonKitty would NOT shut up about. I didn't see anything wrong with it.

I'm not trying to cause trouble or anything, but I'm just mainly sick of people picking it apart seam by seam and then dictating to others would it *should* be like. Just enjoy it, as is, or don't bother with it, y'know? Maybe one day, they'll go back and fix the blunders in a 2nd or 3rd edition. But til' then, I just think we should hang strong and just enjoy. Or if, y'know, you think your own version is *coughSuperiorcough*, then just print it out, bind it up and make your own shoddy version of the manga and enjoy it that way.

~Small Lady Serenity

Miss Dream isn't a person, it's a group, and as a member of that group, I am pretty offended you have the arrogance to consider who's a fan and who isn't. Fine, so you don't agree with fansubbing or our opinions on copyright, fine, but how dare you sit there and say we're not fans. I can't think of any of us at Miss Dream that don't live, eat, and breathe Sailor Moon.

Frankly, I'm sick of people like you who bash people like us who have given negative literary critique to the new manga translation. You people treat it like it's the goddamned bible or something, immune to critique. Guess what: It's not perfect, and Kodansha refuses to hire an editor, so it's never going to be perfect. So how dare you come in here and slam us for looking at the new translation from a literary stand-point. Just because we think the new translation is flawed DOESNT make us any less of fans.

Furthermore, we don't encourage people not to buy the new manga. Hell, a lot of us at Miss Dream DO buy the new manga ourselves. I have a nice stack right in front of me on my desk and I will be picking up the third volume tomorrow. But what's wrong with reviewing it to let people decide for themselves if they want it or not? Absolutely nothing.

*********

Point taken. My apologies.

However:

I'm not against fansubbing/scantilations, but as an individual, I was really rather disgusted and extremely disappointed when Kodansha's release was announced and this group in particular --who had already been working on the scantilation -- went full steam ahead and rushed out a full translation a mere 2-3 months before the official English version hit bookstores in the U.S. -- knowing full well it had been announced...and then continued on with Codename: Sailor V. I've never scantilated or fansubbed before, but it is my understanding that *good* groups generally do the honorable thing and immediately discontinue all efforts at fansubbing/scantilating the moment the announcement is made and take down any and all links/torrents in favor of said official release.

In addition, this same group later put up these silly "editorials" defending their stance and decisions, and one editorial stating outright that their version was superior to Kodansha's.

****

Now, I do apologize, but I just plain do not agree with this. I'm glad y'all love Sailor Moon as much as you do. I think everyone here does, but I just don't think it's right drawing comparisons between a scantilation and the official release. But if we as fans enjoyed Sailor Moon so much, don't you think we can agree on what Kodansha's done right, rather then focusing on what they've done wrong? We've got Usagi, not Bunny, we don't have flipped pages anymore, and at least we're seeing what appears to be original dialogue, even if it might not say exactly the same thing in Japanese. We still have a pretty close approximation of it. And all the pretty artwork!!

Frankly, I don't enjoy the touched up artwork as much as the original artwork and I don't like the new covers as their skirts are much too floofy for my tastes. But those are my own tastes -- I just prefer the original drawings and cover art Mrs. Takeuchi did. I would prefer to have them back, but this is how I got them, and I'll live. Honestly, I'd much prefer to have all 18 of the original volumes re-released, but this is how I'm getting them. I'll live. Does any of this fit my own ideals and desires? Not quite, but it's better then what we had before by a LONG shot, so I'll make do.

Except for that part, I haven't had many complaints of the official release. I'm just annoyed that people are picking it apart the way they are and vaunting this sites work as being "better", which I don't believe it is. Plus the fact they kept on after it was announced which just completely lost any respect and interest I may have had for them at one time, which is why I refuse to support this and any future endeavors they may take on in the future. I'll wait for a better site to get PGSM from, thank you.

Now, as I do not wish to turn this thread into a war, I'll consider the discussion closed. These are merely my opinions -- nothing against you, or the people of this site. I just happen to disagree mightily with their methods. I'm sure you're all lovely people in life and we all want the same for Sailor Moon --- a better chance then it had 10 years ago, and it seems to be happening.

So let's be friends, ne? m

~ Small Lady Serenity

Your timeline is messed up. Kodansha announced their release in March of 2010, and their translation was already done at that point. We were already halfway done with our translation. By June, it was finished. Kodansha didn't release until September of 2010. Initially, we were just going to take it down when the books hit stores, but after all the errors and flaws, we decided to leave it up for the benefit of the fans. With their translation supposedly finished by March, and their every-other-month release schedule, there should have been plenty of time to edit. Also considering their lack of appreciation for fans, refusal to answer emails and messages, making it nearly impossible to contact about our concerns, and shutting down Bill Flanagan when he was conversing (very condescendingly) with fans, they're not a very professional company. (Also, BFlan is a joke who needs his Japanese wife to read dialogue for him so he can translate. Trufax) Our scanlation is up because we feel Kodansha is doing a disservice to fans.

Now, about Elly - She's spent up to 8 years (and onward) immersing herself in the Japanese language, and spent tens of thousands of dollars on schooling at a University with a prestigious Japanese program. Today, she works as a professional translator for a Japanese company. She is qualified to say her translation is better. I find Elly's editorials to be very informative and paint a vibrant picture of how translation and the industry, in general,works.

The things Kodansha has done right isn't really up for question. It was what was expected of them. Had they gone a little further, and hired an editor (Particularly one familiar with the series), the release would have been perfect and we'd have no complaints.

As for the art and the covers and such, those are for another thread because that's on Naoko and they've been around since 2003.

If you like Kodansha's version, that's fine. And you like it better than Miss Dream's? Fine, more power to you. But that doesn't excuse you from slamming us and people who agree with us. And it certainly doesn't give you the right to paint us out to be villainous Sailor Moon-haters, because we aren't, and that's what I'm mostly angry about.

Yen, I think you meant 2011 instead of 2010 On whole I agree with what you are saying here...But I think you are overreacting when you say that SmallLadySerenity is trying to paint you or Miss Dream as villainous. She just has very strong views on copyright and supporting the legal/official version, which part of me wants to commend her for.



THANK YOU. Sweet baby Jesus. Could not agree more. Words. Out of mouth. Taken.
Also, do you hate the re-drawn Moonstick as much as I do?

But SmallLadySerenity, please don't dismiss the Miss Dream translation as garbage. It's actually quite well done and was executed by a group of individuals who knew exactly what they were doing for the most part. Illegal as it may be.