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 Post subject: Is it too little, too late?
PostPosted: Mon May 15, 2017 3:52 am 
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I think Crystal had huge potential to blow up.
The art direction is way more beautiful than the original anime, but it falls flat in nearly every aspect. The blatant laziness and lack of budget diminishes the small moments that do shine.

We are already into Season 4. Are you guys a bit disappointed at how sloppy the animation has been? It's like they can't seem to get it right and keep having to fix things up for better or for worse. I just wish they had gotten this new revival right from the beginning.

I don't think there will ever be another Sailor Moon reboot after this. Maybe some new spin off storylines or something but they sort of blew their chance with Crystal.

Do you guys think so too? No sugar coating. Just honesty please.


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 Post subject: Re: Is it too little, too late?
PostPosted: Mon May 15, 2017 4:01 am 
Aurorae Lunares
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Do we really need another negative thread again?


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 Post subject: Re: Is it too little, too late?
PostPosted: Mon May 15, 2017 4:21 am 
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Neon Genesis wrote:
Do we really need another negative thread again?

nope


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 Post subject: Re: Is it too little, too late?
PostPosted: Mon May 15, 2017 5:16 am 
Aurorae Lunares
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Whether Crystal is a success or a failure, I don't think it's relevant to whether or not there's another Sailor Moon spin-off/revival in the future. I mean, the financial success will be important to Toei, but it's obvious from the overflowing quantity of merch that it's still making plenty of money for the company.

Each Sailor Moon incarnation has been its own thing. They're all inspired by the manga, but they've been unique properties.

Crystal is the "faithful" adaptation that tries to stay as close as possible to the original. That's never been done before.
The classic anime is the typical anime adaptation that does its own thing while maintaining characters, relationships, and plot threads to a certain extent.
PGSM takes a heavy dramatic spin on everything from the manga and fleshes out characters that lacked personality originally.
The musicals create new stories and enemies based on the manga's general story.

If we get another SM creation of some kind in the future - providing that Takeuchi doesn't pen any new manga - it'll probably be looking at the manga through yet another lens. It's highly doubtful that Toei will ever feel the need to make yet another anime that attempts to be as faithful as Crystal is/was.


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 Post subject: Re: Is it too little, too late?
PostPosted: Mon May 15, 2017 6:12 am 
Systema Solare
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foenyanko wrote:
It's highly doubtful that Toei will ever feel the need to make yet another anime that attempts to be as faithful as Crystal is/was.


Unless it's a movie like Mazinger Z of all things is getting from them. :|

It can fix the problems of their 70s show but I'm sure it won't be as good as the 2009 adaptation done elsewhere was.

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 Post subject: Re: Is it too little, too late?
PostPosted: Mon May 15, 2017 7:07 am 
Aurorae Lunares
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The only other thing I can see happening is if Naoko finally gives in and allows a Hollywood live action movie to happen.


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 Post subject: Re: Is it too little, too late?
PostPosted: Mon May 15, 2017 7:39 am 
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Season 3 made up for some of the points that fell flat. Also, you do realize that it's following the Manga right? That's where the negativitys based on. Plus give the people animating the show a break,they're doing the best they can, imagine the stress and pressure they're in just to put out the show for our entertainment. I think crystal still has a chance. As for the Live action films, I'd say wait like 5 years (maybe 6) before discussing such a proposal.


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 Post subject: Re: Is it too little, too late?
PostPosted: Mon May 15, 2017 8:42 am 
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Buffy wrote:
The art direction is way more beautiful than the original anime


False.

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 Post subject: Re: Is it too little, too late?
PostPosted: Mon May 15, 2017 12:28 pm 
Lumen Cinereum
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Yay, another negative thread. :|


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 Post subject: Re: Is it too little, too late?
PostPosted: Mon May 15, 2017 12:43 pm 
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It won't happen in our lifetime, but some day Sailor Moon will fall into the public domain. When that happens, at the very least, I'm sure new adaptations will pop up all over the place :lol:

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 Post subject: Re: Is it too little, too late?
PostPosted: Mon May 15, 2017 2:51 pm 
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Buffy wrote:
I think Crystal had huge potential to blow up.
The art direction is way more beautiful than the original anime, but it falls flat in nearly every aspect. The blatant laziness and lack of budget diminishes the small moments that do shine.

We are already into Season 4. Are you guys a bit disappointed at how sloppy the animation has been? It's like they can't seem to get it right and keep having to fix things up for better or for worse. I just wish they had gotten this new revival right from the beginning.

I don't think there will ever be another Sailor Moon reboot after this. Maybe some new spin off storylines or something but they sort of blew their chance with Crystal.

Do you guys think so too? No sugar coating. Just honesty please.

I don't think they will be any more reboots regardless? Getting a second reboot is rare in is self.I don't imagine there was ever any plans fo reboots after CrystalAlso in retrospect, Crystal is doing fine. They have a lot of merchandise not as big 90 s bust still. They were even cafes for it. Not all anime needs to be a huge success that changes anime as we know it. The animation is fine to me .This toei were talking about


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 Post subject: Re: Is it too little, too late?
PostPosted: Tue May 16, 2017 3:35 am 
Aurorae Lunares
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MementoNepenthe wrote:
It won't happen in our lifetime, but some day Sailor Moon will fall into the public domain. When that happens, at the very least, I'm sure new adaptations will pop up all over the place :lol:

The year 3017, Sailor Moon becomes a legendary fable, now a Disney animated movie.

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 Post subject: Re: Is it too little, too late?
PostPosted: Tue May 16, 2017 3:59 am 
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C-17 wrote:
Buffy wrote:
The art direction is way more beautiful than the original anime


False.


Opinions.


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 Post subject: Re: Is it too little, too late?
PostPosted: Tue May 16, 2017 5:03 am 
Aurorae Lunares
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ChibiBoi wrote:
The year 3017, Sailor Moon becomes a legendary fable, now a Disney animated movie.
I remember when Disney was going to make a Sailor Moon movie with Geena Davis as Queen Beryl.


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 Post subject: Re: Is it too little, too late?
PostPosted: Tue May 16, 2017 5:42 am 
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ChibiBoi wrote:
MementoNepenthe wrote:
It won't happen in our lifetime, but some day Sailor Moon will fall into the public domain. When that happens, at the very least, I'm sure new adaptations will pop up all over the place :lol:

The year 3017, Sailor Moon becomes a legendary fable, now a Disney animated movie.


With the newest CG technology and in 16K. :P

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 Post subject: Re: Is it too little, too late?
PostPosted: Tue May 16, 2017 9:53 am 
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The year 3017, Sailor Moon becomes a legendary fable, now a Disney animated movie.

Over my dead body it's gonna be a Disney film :x


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 Post subject: Re: Is it too little, too late?
PostPosted: Tue May 16, 2017 10:20 am 
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JupiterThunder wrote:
The year 3017, Sailor Moon becomes a legendary fable, now a Disney animated movie.

Over my dead body it's gonna be a Disney film :x



Well technically you'll be dead by 3017 ;).

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 Post subject: Re: Is it too little, too late?
PostPosted: Tue May 16, 2017 3:54 pm 
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DREWdesu wrote:
JupiterThunder wrote:
The year 3017, Sailor Moon becomes a legendary fable, now a Disney animated movie.

Over my dead body it's gonna be a Disney film :x



Well technically you'll be dead by 3017 ;).


And there will be dozens of Sailor Moon movies released every year because the copyright to the originals will have expired.

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 Post subject: Re: Is it too little, too late?
PostPosted: Tue May 16, 2017 7:30 pm 
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Neon Genesis wrote:
Do we really need another negative thread again?


Yeah, seriously. I'm right there with you on this one, Neon Genesis.

Can we just have one concentrated thread dedicated to Crystal critiques?

But since this is still open...OP, sorry but you're posting on a message board that has Sailor Moon fans of ALL versions on it, including Crystal.

Buffy wrote:
I think Crystal had huge potential to blow up.


It did, and it still is. The first two seasons had a lot of hype associated with them, and while reviews were mostly mixed to critical, the third season really raised the bar and got great reviews all around from various anime reviewers on the Internet.

Buffy wrote:
The art direction is way more beautiful than the original anime, but it falls flat in nearly every aspect.


It didn't "fall flat" -- the art direction was fantastic for the first two seasons, but the style was too complicated to be animated well by the studios that Toei outsourced the production to. Thankfully the third season rectified this and even though I like the first two seasons' designs, the third season's designs really made things easier to animate and we had a more coherent show visually. I'd also argue that the Utena-esque direction of season 3 does NOT fall flat by a long shot.

Buffy wrote:
The blatant laziness and lack of budget diminishes the small moments that do shine.


You have a point -- I will never forgive that two-frame Moon Stick animation -- but like I said, the third season easily redeemed itself in this department. There were even improvements by the second season.

Buffy wrote:
We are already into Season 4. Are you guys a bit disappointed at how sloppy the animation has been? It's like they can't seem to get it right and keep having to fix things up for better or for worse. I just wish they had gotten this new revival right from the beginning.


Again, things have been fixed. So I'm not really sure what you're upset about. The animation problems will always be there for the first two seasons, but things got better for the Infinity arc and they will likely improve even more for Dream and Stars. What exactly is the problem? What in season three are you referring to that is so terrible and lazy and sloppy? Because if you're just referring to the first 26 episodes...sorry, but that ship has sailed and those animation problems aren't going to impact the show from here on out.

And what do you mean "this new revival right from the beginning"? The 25th anniversary is basically a continuation of the 20th anniversary which never really stopped.

Buffy wrote:
I don't think there will ever be another Sailor Moon reboot after this.


Probably not, but not because of the quality of the show -- it's because we got an old anime that did its own thing, and now we have a new anime that's closer to the manga. We literally have NO NEED for a third Sailor Moon anime unless it's something new like Sailor V or side-stories or something new from Takeuchi.

Buffy wrote:
Maybe some new spin off storylines or something but they sort of blew their chance with Crystal.


Are you forgetting that Crystal (and anime in general) exists to sell merchandise, which is what is happening? Crystal isn't the huge failure you're making it out to be.

Buffy wrote:
Do you guys think so too? No sugar coating. Just honesty please.


Honestly, your critical remarks on Crystal are definitely fair, but you're taking too grim a view on the whole situation. If things were really that bad, we wouldn't have gotten a third season. Calm down.

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 Post subject: Re: Is it too little, too late?
PostPosted: Tue May 16, 2017 7:43 pm 
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John wrote:
Buffy wrote:
I don't think there will ever be another Sailor Moon reboot after this.


Probably not, but not because of the quality of the show -- it's because we got an old anime that did its own thing, and now we have a new anime that's closer to the manga. We literally have NO NEED for a third Sailor Moon anime unless it's something new like Sailor V or side-stories or something new from Takeuchi.

Maybe an anime version of PGSM or the musicals. :D

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 Post subject: Re: Is it too little, too late?
PostPosted: Tue May 16, 2017 7:57 pm 
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We've had an anime that did its own thing, but "its own thing" involved a ton of filler/padding, plot holes, and disappearing characters.

We have a new anime that is in a sense a more direct adaptation of the manga, but that suffers from poor pacing, poor animation quality, and deviations that are either embarrassing (e.g. Beryl's necklace) or poorly actualized and then dropped (e.g. Senshi x Shitennou)

There's more than enough room for a new adaptation done by talented writers and animators who are familiar with Sailor Moon in all its forms and who actually care about telling the story in a way that is properly paced and plotted out. I have my own ideas for a Sailor Moon adaptation, as I'm sure most fans do.

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 Post subject: Re: Is it too little, too late?
PostPosted: Tue May 16, 2017 8:08 pm 
Aurorae Lunares
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Rika-Chicchi wrote:
John wrote:
Buffy wrote:
I don't think there will ever be another Sailor Moon reboot after this.


Probably not, but not because of the quality of the show -- it's because we got an old anime that did its own thing, and now we have a new anime that's closer to the manga. We literally have NO NEED for a third Sailor Moon anime unless it's something new like Sailor V or side-stories or something new from Takeuchi.

Maybe an anime version of PGSM or the musicals. :D


I don't think an anime version of PGSM is necessary because we already have PGSM and it's fantastic. xD

I would love an animated version of some of the musicals, though -- particularly the Dracul stories.

MementoNepenthe wrote:
We've had an anime that did its own thing, but "its own thing" involved a ton of filler/padding, plot holes, and disappearing characters.


Yeah and lots of people really like that version. I wouldn't say something like this myself, but a lot of people out there (both on these forums and elsewhere) often say that the 90s Sailor Moon anime is the "definitive" Sailor Moon version for them.

Quote:
We have a new anime that is in a sense a more direct adaptation of the manga, but that suffers from poor pacing, poor animation quality, and deviations that are either embarrassing (e.g. Beryl's necklace) or poorly actualized and then dropped (e.g. Senshi x Shitennou)


The first anime also had poor pacing, poor animation quality in places (maybe not as bad as Crystal), and other embarrassing deviations (Nephrite x Naru among many others) and poorly actualized-then-dropped elements (for example, setting up Chibi Chibi to be Sailor Cosmos and hinting at it a lot, only to change everything at the last minute).

Quote:
There's more than enough room for a new adaptation done by talented writers and animators who are familiar with Sailor Moon in all its forms and who actually care about telling the story in a way that is properly paced and plotted out. I have my own ideas for a Sailor Moon adaptation, as I'm sure most fans do.


This translates to "there's room for a Sailor Moon adaptation that's done the way I personally think it should be done" and while that's true to an extent, it's also unnecessary. I would welcome a third anime adaptation, of course, but just because Sailor Moon wasn't "done right" by you doesn't mean it's necessary. I once met someone who called Crystal a "masterpiece" and while I like Crystal, I definitely don't think it's a masterpiece -- so what makes your opinion the one that counts here?

"Properly paced and plotted out" can mean a lot of different things to different people...

I'm really just playing devil's advocate here, I wouldn't mind a third anime adapting Sailor Moon but I also don't think it's necessary. Like I said, we have an anime that's close to the manga and one that does its own thing, and that's on top of a manga, various musicals that are still continuing to this day, and the live-action PGSM show. Why not more musicals? Why not another live-action show? Why not a live-action Japanese movie? Why not an additional manga? Why does it HAVE to be another anime?

Because I guarantee you...even an adaptation that is "properly paced and plotted out" will STILL have problems and there will STILL be fans clamoring for a "better" version. Even if that adaptation in question is yours.

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 Post subject: Re: Is it too little, too late?
PostPosted: Tue May 16, 2017 8:36 pm 
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John wrote:
Why not more musicals? Why not another live-action show? Why not a live-action Japanese movie? Why not an additional manga? Why does it HAVE to be another anime?



Well musicals are still happening and probably will be regardless of any anime, manga or tv show so i dont really count them as they're mostly their own thing and they're around.

Another live action? I love PGSM but lets face it: another Japanese live action show would just result in SM getting off the radar for another few years. As much there are complains about Crystal people still do watch and pay attention to that show because its anime while many to this day never watched PGSM and never will. Same goes for live action movie.

Manga? Unless Naoko decides to do one it aint happening

Anime is the most popular format, not just for SM, specially in the west.

I dont see the point of another SM reboot though. We have 3 versions and musicals. Thats more than enough for one story. I could maybe see another anime if they decided to a serious manga/Crystal and 90s anime combination but that doesnt seem likely, at least not anytime soon.

Basically if there would be a future anime it should be either post Stars continuation or Silver Millenium prequel. Things like Sailor V or short stories would be merely extras but hardly a real new versions. Chibusa's future adventures also sounds a bit outlandish to me as i cant really imagine how futuristic SM would work (small scenes in the manga or the 90s anime hardly gives us an actual feel of what the life in the future is really like) since the everyday life is such a big part of SM (specially 90s anime and PGSM but manga aswell)


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 Post subject: Re: Is it too little, too late?
PostPosted: Tue May 16, 2017 8:47 pm 
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Maybe an SD anime, then, like the one of Oh My Goddess!. lol

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 Post subject: Re: Is it too little, too late?
PostPosted: Tue May 16, 2017 8:53 pm 
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Rika-Chicchi wrote:
Maybe an SD anime, then, like the one of Oh My Goddess!. lol

and there's also SD Gundam P-:

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 Post subject: Re: Is it too little, too late?
PostPosted: Tue May 16, 2017 8:56 pm 
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Prince Rose wrote:
Rika-Chicchi wrote:
Maybe an SD anime, then, like the one of Oh My Goddess!. lol

and there's also SD Gundam P-:

Yup, & Gundam is generally also a way more serious anime - I've always thought it could also work on Sailor Moon. =^_^=

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 Post subject: Re: Is it too little, too late?
PostPosted: Tue May 16, 2017 9:20 pm 
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John wrote:

I'm really just playing devil's advocate here, I wouldn't mind a third anime adapting Sailor Moon but I also don't think it's necessary. Like I said, we have an anime that's close to the manga and one that does its own thing, and that's on top of a manga, various musicals that are still continuing to this day, and the live-action PGSM show. Why not more musicals? Why not another live-action show? Why not a live-action Japanese movie? Why not an additional manga? Why does it HAVE to be another anime?

Because I guarantee you...even an adaptation that is "properly paced and plotted out" will STILL have problems and there will STILL be fans clamoring for a "better" version. Even if that adaptation in question is yours.


I never said anything about another anime. I said there was room for another adaptation. That could be another anime, it could be an animated series done in another country, it could be a stop-motion animation, a CG animation, a live action series, a film franchise, etc.

And what does necessity have to do with anything? Was PGSM necessary? No. Was Crystal necessary? No. Was Sailor Moon at all necessary? No. But that doesn't mean people don't love it, don't want more of it, and that there isn't more money to be made off future adaptations.

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 Post subject: Re: Is it too little, too late?
PostPosted: Tue May 16, 2017 9:26 pm 
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MementoNepenthe wrote:

It could be an animated series done in another country.



I would like to see a western made cartoon, if it worked for Voltron, it could work with Sailor Moon.

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 Post subject: Re: Is it too little, too late?
PostPosted: Tue May 16, 2017 9:36 pm 
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SailorWelshy wrote:
MementoNepenthe wrote:

It could be an animated series done in another country.



I would like to see a western made cartoon, if it worked for Voltron, it could work with Sailor Moon.

Even a Western-made PGSM, like PR. :D

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 Post subject: Re: Is it too little, too late?
PostPosted: Tue May 16, 2017 9:52 pm 
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Chances are any future anime adaptations made in Japan would be done by Toei (unless Naoko comes to her senses and teams up with a different studio). If Crystal is representative of the quality of their work today... I shudder to think what the quality of their work would be in 10, 20, 30 years from now. (Though one would hope it would get better.)

I really think a foreign adaptation of Sailor Moon would be the most interesting/exciting. A different animation style, a different perspective... It could make for something really fresh.

Personally, I'd still LOVE for a Broadway/West End Sailor Moon musical. I love the Myus, but I'd love to see a Sailor Moon musical that was a real spectacle, with lavish sets, props, and all the top of the line SFX Broadway money can buy. Plus, I'd love to see a Sailor Moon musical that showed the girls' awakening as Sailors (which has never been addressed in the Myus) and that featured the side characters like Usagi's family, Naru, Umino, and Motoki.

Or what about a straightforward, non-musical play? Or a ballet? Or a completely sung-through opera? There are so many media left to do adaptations in!

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