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 Post subject: Re: If aired in the 90s, would the Viz dub have been as popular?
PostPosted: Fri Aug 11, 2017 8:20 am 
Planeta
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^ I know all about the very strict standards of broadcast television. I was mostly speaking about Toonami, which was on cable. Dragon Ball Z and Sailor Moon were both able to get away with a LOT more there than in broadcast syndication. Any edits to the Viz dub would be pretty similar, if not identical, to what we saw to S and SuperS.

Neon Genesis wrote:
They were still graphic enough to cause kids to go to the hospital in Japan and Pokemon was always the target of media watchdog groups for having evolution and physics or something. Even Naoko's editors told her she couldn't kill her main characters because it would be too upsetting for kids. There's no way Sailor Moon could have got away with it if Pokemon barely did.


I'm sure that's been greatly exaggerated, and I cannot picture anything like that possibly happening here. Also, Sailor Moon and Pokemon were two different shows with different issues. American parents didn't feel comfortable with ANY anime at the time, regardless of content. None of the main characters have ever died in Pokemon, unless you count Ash being turned to stone in The First Movie. Even that was kept in the 4Kids dub.

Episodes 45 and 46 could've aired mostly intact on Toonami, with only light editing. Characters were allowed to say "die," and minor (mostly bloodless) violence was allowed. Syndication was clearly another story. It would've still been sad, but that doesn't mean it would've been inappropriate.


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 Post subject: Re: If aired in the 90s, would the Viz dub have been as popular?
PostPosted: Fri Aug 11, 2017 10:46 am 
Luna Nova
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I'll just leave this here:

https://www.tuxedounmasked.com/2016/02/10/how-did-fans-react-to-the-deaths-of-the-sailor-soldiers/


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 Post subject: Re: If aired in the 90s, would the Viz dub have been as popular?
PostPosted: Fri Aug 11, 2017 1:22 pm 
Galaxias
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PurpleWarrior13 wrote:
^ I know all about the very strict standards of broadcast television. I was mostly speaking about Toonami, which was on cable. Dragon Ball Z and Sailor Moon were both able to get away with a LOT more there than in broadcast syndication. Any edits to the Viz dub would be pretty similar, if not identical, to what we saw to S and SuperS.
Toonami didn't start getting anime until the end of the 90s, and at which point the only anime it was airing in those years was nothing but edited anime. They didn't start airing less edited/unedited anime until the 2000s, which is after the point in time that is the subject of this discussion.

And what's more is that, even during that point when Toonami was airing less edited/unedited anime, Sailor Moon still only ever aired on Toonami in edited form. So if the DiC and Cloverway dubs were incapable of being aired on Toonami in uncut form at a time when Toonami was starting to be more lenient with the anime dubs that they were airing during the daytime, what hope would the Viz dub have in airing uncut during the decade before Toonami starting being that lenient?

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 Post subject: Re: If aired in the 90s, would the Viz dub have been as popular?
PostPosted: Fri Aug 11, 2017 4:14 pm 
Aurorae Lunares
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S and SuperS were more faithful but still had a lot of edits like censoring homosexuality and two episodes were skipped in the initial broadcast because they didn't finish editing them in time. Later Toonami anime were only able to be as lightly edited as they were because of the success of all the edited anime that aired before them like Robotech and Voltron that created the first anime fans and paved the way for increased demand for higher quality dubs.


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 Post subject: Re: If aired in the 90s, would the Viz dub have been as popular?
PostPosted: Fri Aug 11, 2017 10:14 pm 
Aurorae Lunares
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Honetly Viz dub would probably still has to be censored if it was air today as well


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 Post subject: Re: If aired in the 90s, would the Viz dub have been as popular?
PostPosted: Sat Aug 12, 2017 12:27 am 
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imaginationgirl wrote:
Honetly Viz dub would probably still has to be censored if it was air today as well

Probably not if it was aired on a channel like Adult Swim. Plus atleast regarding LGBT stuff it seems like shows are becoming more LGBT friendly. Like the stuff on Avatar Legend of Korra and Steven Universe.

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 Post subject: Re: If aired in the 90s, would the Viz dub have been as popular?
PostPosted: Sat Aug 12, 2017 4:38 am 
Galaxias
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Adult Swim is not without its own measure of censorship. As lenient as it has been with anime, there are still some things that simply just won't fly on American television no matter what.

Even on FUNimation's old FUNimation Channel did they censor their own dub of Dragon Ball for any shots of nudity and such.


And, let's not kid ourselves here. Adult Swim is anything but mainstream when it comes to airing children's cartoons. Yes, the cartoons it airs contain certain things that would only be allowed to air on Adult Swim, but many anime that air or have aired on either Adult Swim or its predecessor Toonami's Midnight Run block were made for younger audiences than the older demographic that Adult Swim targets. If Sailor Moon had only ever aired on American television during the late night hours between 11pm and 6am, it would have been a complete and total failure. No well-parented child would have been up that late to see it, while any older viewers up that late wouldn't have grown up watching it (since they'd already be adults/teenagers by that point in their lives) and in turn wouldn't have the nostalgia for it that we current adults have for it from having grown up watching it from when we were young'uns. Very few, if any at all, of the show's target audience would have seen it, as most would have missed out on it entirely. A censored daytime slot was the not only the best option but the only option for Sailor Moon to have had any kind of successful exposure to its target audience on American television in the 1990s.

Just because we adult fans would watch it uncut doesn't mean the same would have applied for adult audiences of the 90's. Back then (and still to this day, unfortunately), there was a strong bias towards regarding animation as strictly for children, with the only exceptions being crude comedies made specifically for adults, like The Simpsons or South Park. We fans as we are now accept Sailor Moon as good enough for us to enjoy it for the most part, but that's because many of us were exposed to it in our youth, a point in our lives when we were more accepting towards and less critical of things in general. And we held onto our childlike enjoyment of Sailor Moon into adulthood, refusing to "grow up" and "give up all childish things", going against what's considered the "normality" of the adult mindset. In a sense, we turned ourselves into "manchildren"/"womanchildren". To put it more bluntly, we are geeks. As much as we'd like to think otherwise, we are not the "normal" kind of adults that society wants us to be. We go against that norm by holding on to something that makes us happy and has made us happy since we were younger. And we only became geeks for Sailor Moon from how we were all exposed to Sailor Moon as it was presented in the 1990s and 2000s. But back in the 1990s, there really weren't any adult Sailor Moon geeks, or at least not even close to the extent that there are now. Shucks, even to this day, many adult non-fans of both our generations and those that preceded us still look down on Sailor Moon in a negative light for several (and in many cases, unwarranted) reasons. The fact of the matter is that, at least in the United States, we still live in a reality that prejudices animation as inferior to live action, and with that prejudice comes the unfounded notion of animation is "only for children" (again, barring the "crass adult animation" exceptions) and by extension a childish thing that adults needn't waste their time on, and thus any adult who is into that kind of so-called "childish stuff" is looked on as an anomaly among "normal" adults, and labeled with the (originally derogatory) term of "geek" (or even "pervert"/"creeper"/"predator"/etc., but that's a whole other can of worms). And even in the 90s was this mindset in full effect. It's a sad reality, yes, but it's what we face everyday as geeks, and especially as Sailor Moon geeks.

Now, that isn't to say that things haven't improved since the 90s. The Marvel movies are a hit, the DC shows on the CW are acclaimed, and more and more brands that were once looked on as "for kids"/"for nerds" are now becoming mainstream with live action works. But there in lies the kicker: "Live action", the medium that is still viewed as "superior" to animation. It will take much more than what's come so far for animation, and Sailor Moon in particular, to viewed in a light of complete acceptability by the the mainstream masses of the U.S. While I can see such happening for animation in general, we're still a good long way's off for Sailor Moon to receive such acceptance on that wide a scale. As of now, everyone who enjoys Sailor Moon is either a child or (wo)manchild, and it's still considered okay for the former to like Sailor Moon, while the latter liking Sailor Moon is still viewed as just as much an oddity now as it was in the 90s. Shucks, it was hard enough for boys,let alone grown men, to be open fans of Sailor Moon back in the 90s without being on the receiving in of at best verbal jeers or at worst physically bullying.

With that mindset firmly in place in the 90s, Sailor Moon pretty much had no choice but to aim squarely at its primary demographic of young children, mainly girls, if it wanted to have any kind of real success. And in order to do that, it had to air on a network at a time when children would have been able to catch it. And in order for it to air on those networks in those timeslots, it had to meet the standards and practices for children's programming aired on those networks during those timeslots. In order to do that, many things that did not meet those standards and practices needed to be censored out. If they hadn't been, the whole show would have been deemed unfit for televised airing. Therefore, if the Viz dub had existed back in the 90s, and wanted to be successful, it would have had to have been censored in order to meet the BSnP of the network that it was to have aired on.

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 Post subject: Re: If aired in the 90s, would the Viz dub have been as popular?
PostPosted: Sat Aug 12, 2017 6:10 am 
Aurorae Lunares
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For all the flack the DiC dub gets, it's actually remarkably faithful compared to other countries' dubs. You compare it to the South Korean dub where they cut out every episode that had the Hikawa Shrine in it or cut out every episode with the Amazon Tro in it. They also censored the Starlghts outfits by digitally painting over their midrifs and did the same for Usagi's nudity in episode 200. Other countries made other bizarre changes like having Haruka being changed to a boy in her civilian form and Michiru only pretending to date her to hide their identities. For all the changes that were made, they kept the basic storyline and characters the same, and we got as much as could be expected back then dubbed. That's a big step up from previous dubs like Voltron and Robotech where they were originally multiple separate shows that were combined to make one anime. And in some cases, I think some of the changes DiC made improved upon the original. Some of the humor I think is funnier in the dub and I prefer a lot of the DiC music over the original, like My Only Love and The Power Of Love.


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 Post subject: Re: If aired in the 90s, would the Viz dub have been as popular?
PostPosted: Sat Aug 12, 2017 12:37 pm 
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MariaTenebre wrote:
imaginationgirl wrote:
Honetly Viz dub would probably still has to be censored if it was air today as well

Probably not if it was aired on a channel like Adult Swim. Plus atleast regarding LGBT stuff it seems like shows are becoming more LGBT friendly. Like the stuff on Avatar Legend of Korra and Steven Universe.

I wasn't talking about adult swim . I was taling it airing on a kid network I also wasn't talking ust about LLGBT themes. The show is still violent, and have curse words . Things would still be edited out . Haruka and Micheru would still probably be tone down.(The implication there relationship being physical would be removed)


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 Post subject: Re: If aired in the 90s, would the Viz dub have been as popular?
PostPosted: Sat Aug 12, 2017 2:31 pm 
Lumen Cinereum
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Neon Genesis wrote:
For all the flack the DiC dub gets, it's actually remarkably faithful compared to other countries' dubs. You compare it to the South Korean dub where they cut out every episode that had the Hikawa Shrine in it or cut out every episode with the Amazon Tro in it. They also censored the Starlghts outfits by digitally painting over their midrifs and did the same for Usagi's nudity in episode 200. Other countries made other bizarre changes like having Haruka being changed to a boy in her civilian form and Michiru only pretending to date her to hide their identities. For all the changes that were made, they kept the basic storyline and characters the same, and we got as much as could be expected back then dubbed. That's a big step up from previous dubs like Voltron and Robotech where they were originally multiple separate shows that were combined to make one anime. And in some cases, I think some of the changes DiC made improved upon the original. Some of the humor I think is funnier in the dub and I prefer a lot of the DiC music over the original, like My Only Love and The Power Of Love.


You do make a good point but they also did what so many other anime did (Digimon for example) by making the characters a dumb as dirt and incredibly mean. I probably exaggerate a bit but the original dub did have the characters insulting each other more and created more cheap gags. My biggest example at the moment is Rei and the Moon Stick. Usagi trusted her with it so that she couldn't give in and do what the Dark Kingdom wanted. Serena simply forgot it under Raye's bed. A moment of incredible growth and maturity turned into a gag. I think there was way too much of that sort of thing.

We should have made minimal cuts and edits for content but kept basic story-lines and character arcs in place.

By the way, I've heard that about South Korea. How on earth can you have a SuperS season without the Trio? How is that even done?


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 Post subject: Re: If aired in the 90s, would the Viz dub have been as popular?
PostPosted: Sat Aug 12, 2017 2:55 pm 
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The DiC dub was made to appeal to a broad Western audience and written to appeal to Western attitudes and culture. For all the flaws the DiC dub has, it was very successful on Cartoon Network and was always one of Toonami's highest rated anime, beaten in ratings only by DBZ. It sucks the DiC dub had to be censored and Americanized, but anime fandom would be completely different today without it. And now we do have a faithful uncut dub that is easily accessible whereas the DiC dub that made most of us fans is impossible to obtain in an official capacity. So the Japanese version won out over DiC in the end and I think it could have been a lot worse if Toei chose to go with Toon Makers instead of DiC.


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 Post subject: Re: If aired in the 90s, would the Viz dub have been as popular?
PostPosted: Sat Aug 12, 2017 3:45 pm 
Lumen Cinereum
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Neon Genesis wrote:
The DiC dub was made to appeal to a broad Western audience and written to appeal to Western attitudes and culture. For all the flaws the DiC dub has, it was very successful on Cartoon Network and was always one of Toonami's highest rated anime, beaten in ratings only by DBZ. It sucks the DiC dub had to be censored and Americanized, but anime fandom would be completely different today without it. And now we do have a faithful uncut dub that is easily accessible whereas the DiC dub that made most of us fans is impossible to obtain in an official capacity. So the Japanese version won out over DiC in the end and I think it could have been a lot worse if Toei chose to go with Toon Makers instead of DiC.


Oh yes! As much as I dislike the DiC dub, it's awesome compared to what Toon Makers would have done


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 Post subject: Re: If aired in the 90s, would the Viz dub have been as popular?
PostPosted: Sat Aug 12, 2017 5:29 pm 
Solaris Luna
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1. We really don't know how the ToonMaker version would have turned out. All we have are some cells and a bootleg recording of a music video assembled from footage from the pilot presentation. The animation quality, the character designs, even the cast were not indicative of how the finished product would have looked. The little bit of content we have may look pretty cheesy and dated, but the actual series, had it been made, could have been really good. I mean, the premise does seem to presage the Stars arc in some ways. And, in fact, the DiC dub did use aspects of the ToonMaker dub (the name Darien/Darian, the Sailors being princesses, Sailor Moon and Tuxedo Mask being engaged in their past life); perhaps the other characters' names and some terminology, along with other plot changes (like Amy being a transfer student) also came from the ToonMaker project's notes. Without hearing from more people involved in the DiC dub's production, we may never know.

doctorwho29 wrote:
You do make a good point but they also did what so many other anime did (Digimon for example) by making the characters a dumb as dirt and incredibly mean. I probably exaggerate a bit but the original dub did have the characters insulting each other more and created more cheap gags. My biggest example at the moment is Rei and the Moon Stick. Usagi trusted her with it so that she couldn't give in and do what the Dark Kingdom wanted. Serena simply forgot it under Raye's bed. A moment of incredible growth and maturity turned into a gag. I think there was way too much of that sort of thing.


2. I disagree that the dub made the characters "dumb as dirt." I mean, Usagi literally didn't know what gravity was. At least Serena was never THAT dumb. She was a klutz and a goofball, but didn't sound uneducated. And I continue to disagree that the dub made the characters incredibly mean. Do Raye and Serena (and the others) exchange more barbs? Sure. But that's not uncommon in American series about groups of friends. Look at the Golden Girls. Look at Will & Grace. The groups of friends in those shows constantly insult each other, but that doesn't mean they don't love each other. It's just the dynamic of their relationship. At least Raye never slapped or kicked Serena the way Rei did Usagi. And honestly, you DiC critics need to find a new refrain to sing. I'm O V E R hearing about the Moon Stick/Crescent Moon Wand thing. If all you have is one minor scene to harp on about, it sounds like you don't have much of an argument to make.

3. Also, to say the DiC dub "created more cheap gags" when the Japanese version literally did fart jokes? Okay then...

Anyway, the DiC dub is/was amazing. It's iconic, which is something the Viz redub will never be. Is the DiC dub perfect? No, but a lot of its issues can be attributed to low budget, poor materials from Toei to work with, and a very rushed production schedule, as well as the fact it was being dubbed by people who had never dubbed an anime before and were learning on the job. Yet, despite those obstacles, they still managed to produce a great show. The Viz dub, on the other hand, is being produced at its own pace, using much better materials, and is being done by a company that has years upon years of experience in the anime dubbing business, and yet the best they can manage is clunky, unnatural dialog and bland performances. Their dub may be uncut and ostensibly more faithful, but it's still not good. If they were producing their dub under the same conditions as the DiC dub, I can't even imagine how much of a mess it would be.

So, to answer this thread's question: No. If aired in the 90s, the Viz dub would not have been as popular as the DiC dub was.

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 Post subject: Re: If aired in the 90s, would the Viz dub have been as popular?
PostPosted: Sat Aug 12, 2017 6:08 pm 
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I could have mentioned the scene transitions, the pointless effects and lightning, the questionable voices (Molly's accent), and continuity errors. One is Lita's mother being allergic to cats and still being dead or the Quartet having heard about the Soldiers from the Trio. True another company had taken over by then but it's a similar treatment. And "Day of Destiny" just felt very choppy and it was obvious what was really happening during the capture scenes. There are also the important episodes that were skipped...it's just not a good job, neither by DiC nor by Coverway.

I just don't like the DiC/Cloverway dub that much. I'll occasionally watch select episodes but I just wish they had treated better and less carelessly. It's fine that you like it but I'm just trying to show that there are more problems than simply the Moon Stick scene.


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 Post subject: Re: If aired in the 90s, would the Viz dub have been as popular?
PostPosted: Sat Aug 12, 2017 6:16 pm 
Luna Nova
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doctorwho29 wrote:
the Quartet having heard about the Soldiers from the Trio. True another company had taken over by then but it's a similar treatment.

Did they ever make state that the Quartet does not know the Trio? I mean, they tried to kill them so obviously they knew them even if they weren't close.

doctorwho29 wrote:
There are also the important episodes that were skipped...

All the episodes that were skipped were fillers.


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 Post subject: Re: If aired in the 90s, would the Viz dub have been as popular?
PostPosted: Sat Aug 12, 2017 6:29 pm 
Lumen Cinereum
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musa wrote:
Did they ever make state that the Quartet does not know the Trio? I mean, they tried to kill them so obviously they knew them even if they weren't close.

All the episodes that were skipped were fillers.


The Quartet were always in shadow when the Trio were around and didn't reveal themselves until after the Trio was gone. Then they had to introduce themselves to Zirconia, which creates another plothole by the way. Earlier in the same episode Zirconia claimed to have trained them and then asked their names. Also a later episode clearly shows Nehellenia finding them and giving them their abilities.

Filler? Really? We saw how Luna became a member of the Tsukino family. We saw Usagi stepping up to the plate and coming up with a plan to defeat Kurene on her own. We saw some of Minako's past and how much pain her life of crime fighting can cause her. It's true we didn't need every one of those episodes but many of them had some really great story points in them.


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 Post subject: Re: If aired in the 90s, would the Viz dub have been as popular?
PostPosted: Sat Aug 12, 2017 6:40 pm 
Luna Nova
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doctorwho29 wrote:
musa wrote:
Did they ever make state that the Quartet does not know the Trio? I mean, they tried to kill them so obviously they knew them even if they weren't close.



The Quartet were always in shadow when the Trio were around and didn't reveal themselves until after the Trio was gone. Then they had to introduce themselves to Zirconia, which creates another plothole by the way. Earlier in the same episode Zirconia claimed to have trained them and then asked their names. Also a later episode clearly shows Nehellenia finding them and giving them their abilities.

You didn't answer my question. If they didn't know them then why are they trying to kill them?


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 Post subject: Re: If aired in the 90s, would the Viz dub have been as popular?
PostPosted: Sat Aug 12, 2017 6:57 pm 
Lumen Cinereum
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To get them out of the way. Nehellenia had already threatened them and when they continued to fail, she sent her minions to get rid of them.


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 Post subject: Re: If aired in the 90s, would the Viz dub have been as popular?
PostPosted: Sat Aug 12, 2017 7:04 pm 
Luna Nova
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doctorwho29 wrote:
To get them out of the way. Nehellenia had already threatened them and when they continued to fail, she sent her minions to get rid of them.

I left something out. How can they kill someone they don't know? That would be like putting a hit on a stranger.


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 Post subject: Re: If aired in the 90s, would the Viz dub have been as popular?
PostPosted: Sat Aug 12, 2017 7:08 pm 
Lumen Cinereum
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musa wrote:
doctorwho29 wrote:
To get them out of the way. Nehellenia had already threatened them and when they continued to fail, she sent her minions to get rid of them.

I left something out. How can they kill someone they don't know? That would be like putting a hit on a stranger.


And this alters things how? The Quartet started out as evil children seeing everything as a game. They tried to kill Zirconia and went after all those humans. They didn't even take the effort to choose them making the target even more of a stranger than for the Trio but they tried to kill every one of them, or at least render them into a horrible, dreamless state (look at Usagi when her mirror broke). Yeah, they were following orders and taking out the Trio whom they didn't even know.


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 Post subject: Re: If aired in the 90s, would the Viz dub have been as popular?
PostPosted: Sat Aug 12, 2017 7:09 pm 
Aurorae Lunares
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doctorwho29 wrote:
musa wrote:
Did they ever make state that the Quartet does not know the Trio? I mean, they tried to kill them so obviously they knew them even if they weren't close.

All the episodes that were skipped were fillers.


The Quartet were always in shadow when the Trio were around and didn't reveal themselves until after the Trio was gone. Then they had to introduce themselves to Zirconia, which creates another plothole by the way. Earlier in the same episode Zirconia claimed to have trained them and then asked their names. Also a later episode clearly shows Nehellenia finding them and giving them their abilities.

Filler? Really? We saw how Luna became a member of the Tsukino family. We saw Usagi stepping up to the plate and coming up with a plan to defeat Kurene on her own. We saw some of Minako's past and how much pain her life of crime fighting can cause her. It's true we didn't need every one of those episodes but many of them had some really great story points in them.

Yes, most of the episodes were sipped were filler.We also had the dinosaur and monster episode . The Minako episode why showing her past a bit . Really wasn't a back ground episode it didn't show her how she came Sailor Venus or metting Artemis.


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 Post subject: Re: If aired in the 90s, would the Viz dub have been as popular?
PostPosted: Sat Aug 12, 2017 7:12 pm 
Lumen Cinereum
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I'm just saying the DiC version missed out on some cool stuff, some of it related to plot in one way or another


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 Post subject: Re: If aired in the 90s, would the Viz dub have been as popular?
PostPosted: Sat Aug 12, 2017 7:23 pm 
Luna Nova
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doctorwho29 wrote:
musa wrote:
doctorwho29 wrote:
To get them out of the way. Nehellenia had already threatened them and when they continued to fail, she sent her minions to get rid of them.

I left something out. How can they kill someone they don't know? That would be like putting a hit on a stranger.


And this alters things how? The Quartet started out as evil children seeing everything as a game. They tried to kill Zirconia and went after all those humans. They didn't even take the effort to choose them making the target even more of a stranger than for the Trio but they tried to kill every one of them, or at least render them into a horrible, dreamless state (look at Usagi when her mirror broke). Yeah, they were following orders and taking out the Trio whom they didn't even know.

But they were getting rid of three specific people, who they didn't even know their name or how they look.


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 Post subject: Re: If aired in the 90s, would the Viz dub have been as popular?
PostPosted: Sat Aug 12, 2017 7:28 pm 
Lumen Cinereum
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They'd been watching from the rafters for an episode or two. They knew what they looked like. Also Nehellenia could have easily showed them who to kill.


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 Post subject: Re: If aired in the 90s, would the Viz dub have been as popular?
PostPosted: Sat Aug 12, 2017 7:32 pm 
Luna Nova
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So what's the issue with them knowing the Trio? I think they mentioned them only twice.


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 Post subject: Re: If aired in the 90s, would the Viz dub have been as popular?
PostPosted: Sat Aug 12, 2017 7:35 pm 
Lumen Cinereum
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musa wrote:
So what's the issue with them knowing the Trio? I think they mentioned them only twice.


My point is that we have no indication the two groups ever interacted apart from glimpsing each other and yet the Quartet are acting like the Trio had a nice chat with them about enemies. I'm not the only one to notice this. Sailor Moon Uncensored brings it up as well if memory serves well.

Not to mention the other little plot holes and acts of plain carelessness I mentioned. I could also had how neither DiC nor Cloverway could seem to decide upon an attack name half the time. I don't know how many attacks Sailor Jupiter had but they were all the same thing. Also there are gems like this: when Amy first upgraded all the way to Super level she said "Mercury Star Power" while way back in episode three of S Mina said "Venus Crystal Power." What the heck? I didn't mean to get into a old dub versus new debate but it just surprises me how many people seem to just adore the old dub. It has good points but not nearly enough.


Last edited by doctorwho29 on Sat Aug 12, 2017 7:42 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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 Post subject: Re: If aired in the 90s, would the Viz dub have been as popular?
PostPosted: Sat Aug 12, 2017 7:39 pm 
Aurorae Lunares
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doctorwho29 wrote:
I'm just saying the DiC version missed out on some cool stuff, some of it related to plot in one way or another

The thing is most of them didn't. The Dinosaur and monster mash episode. Also it is better to not use sailor moon uncencered they tend to lie, and exaggerate the edits.


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 Post subject: Re: If aired in the 90s, would the Viz dub have been as popular?
PostPosted: Sat Aug 12, 2017 7:45 pm 
Lumen Cinereum
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imaginationgirl wrote:
doctorwho29 wrote:
I'm just saying the DiC version missed out on some cool stuff, some of it related to plot in one way or another

The thing is most of them didn't. The Dinosaur and monster mash episode. Also it is better to not use sailor moon uncencered they tend to lie, and exaggerate the edits.


That's the same two episodes you used before and I think those are great episodes. The manga had lots of side stories unrelated to the main villains. Why can't the anime. I just don't see why whole episodes had to go especially when Sailor Says (oh how I hate that) used scenes from deleted episodes anyway. And I've never noticed Sailor Moon Uncensored to be that exaggerated. i used to watch Cloverway episodes a lot (it was the best I had) and I noticed that that Uncensored is usually right. Maybe their opinions are a bit strong but the facts are there


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 Post subject: Re: If aired in the 90s, would the Viz dub have been as popular?
PostPosted: Sat Aug 12, 2017 7:46 pm 
Luna Nova
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doctorwho29 wrote:
musa wrote:
So what's the issue with them knowing the Trio? I think they mentioned them only twice.


My point is that we have no indication the two groups ever interacted apart from glimpsing each other and yet the Quartet are acting like the Trio had a nice chat with them about enemies. I'm not the only one to notice this. Sailor Moon Uncensored brings it up as well if memory serves well.

Not to mention the other little plot holes and acts of plain carelessness I mentioned. I could also had how neither DiC nor Cloverway could seem to decide upon an attack name half the time. I don't know how many attacks Sailor Jupiter had but they were all the same thing. Also there are gems like this: when Amy first upgraded all the way to Super level she said "Mercury Star Power" while way back in episode three of S Mina said "Venus Crystal Power." What the heck? I didn't mean to get into a old dub versus new debate but it just surprises me how many people seem to just adore the old dub. It has good points but not nearly enough.

Exactly. We do not know. Maybe they interacted with each other, maybe they did not. It's all up to interpretation.


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 Post subject: Re: If aired in the 90s, would the Viz dub have been as popular?
PostPosted: Sat Aug 12, 2017 7:52 pm 
Lumen Cinereum
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musa wrote:
doctorwho29 wrote:
musa wrote:
So what's the issue with them knowing the Trio? I think they mentioned them only twice.


My point is that we have no indication the two groups ever interacted apart from glimpsing each other and yet the Quartet are acting like the Trio had a nice chat with them about enemies. I'm not the only one to notice this. Sailor Moon Uncensored brings it up as well if memory serves well.

Not to mention the other little plot holes and acts of plain carelessness I mentioned. I could also had how neither DiC nor Cloverway could seem to decide upon an attack name half the time. I don't know how many attacks Sailor Jupiter had but they were all the same thing. Also there are gems like this: when Amy first upgraded all the way to Super level she said "Mercury Star Power" while way back in episode three of S Mina said "Venus Crystal Power." What the heck? I didn't mean to get into a old dub versus new debate but it just surprises me how many people seem to just adore the old dub. It has good points but not nearly enough.

Exactly. We do not know. Maybe they interacted with each other, maybe they did not. It's all up to interpretation.


Ok, one point I can concede even if I don't see it that way. That doesn't explain how Zirconia supposedly trained them and then didn't know their names. Just way too many points of being careless for my taste as I've already said.


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