Is there a double standard regarding Naoko as a mangaka?

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Do you think there’s an unfair double standard being applied to Naoko

  • Yes

    Votes: 15 57.7%
  • No

    Votes: 11 42.3%

  • Total voters
    26
Jul 29, 2012
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Your interpretation is mostly correct...

There was no "let people watch what they want to watch" back in the day. Instead it was "dubbies die" or "you're not watching Sailor Moon properly" and all sorts of hate for the dub and its fans. They were fine with people writing whole fan sites about why the dub is awful, but as soon as even a hint of the vitriol is directed at Takeuchi, people throw up energy shields to protect someone who's making money off them.
I understand that you no longer wish to discuss this topic, but I wanted to add that nobody has the right to tell you how to watch any show that you like. If someone tells you how to watch Sailor Moon and they are intrusive, tell them that they are being impolite and that you are perfectly capable of deciding which version of Sailor Moon you wish to watch.

Good luck.

:kero:
 

JayD22460

Aurorae Lunares
Dec 20, 2011
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I know you bowed out, Nadia, but I'm just seeing this now and I feel it's important. Feel free to reply privately if you'd like, or we can just drop it here, no pressure.

No, you are defined entirely by people's reactions to you. For instance, if people give you money, you're rich. You do not define yourself. Collective reactions define others. The only thing you can choose to do is to not add to collective hurt.
So that one reaction from others (getting paid) is the entirety of a person? Not how they got paid, or what they did to get paid, or what got them this job/opportunity in the first place? I wouldn't have gotten paid if I didn't first take an action that would merit getting paid, or allow me to get paid.

This logically doesn't make any sense. Other people's reactions do contribute to "defining" someone, but they are not the entirety of it. My actions, and the feelings associated with those actions, define me. If I wake up at 5 AM to go for a run outside or go to the gym, I am taking care of my body and my health and pushing/challenging myself, and that has nothing to do with other people's reactions or ideas about me. It "defines" me in that moment as someone who would do something like wake up at the ass-crack of dawn for some exercise, even if no one else sees me or knows I do it. If we are entirely defined by other people's reactions to us, then nothing we do in solitude "counts" for us as people.....which obviously makes no sense at all.

I like Sailor Moon. I'm a Sailor Moon fan. Other people's reactions to that (how they feel, what they do) do not, cannot, and will not ever change that. Because *I don't care what they think or do* in this case.

However, I do think we all are indeed interconnected. So there is indeed some merit to the idea of collective reactions and how we react to those as individuals. But you have some strong black-and-white thinking going on here. I have a feeling that if you can change this perspective you have, a lot might also change. Everything is very all-or-nothing for you, and I relate to that, because I used to have a similar perspective.

You may be defined entirely by people's reactions to you, because you choose to accept that definition yourself. But if you don't care what other people think, other people's reactions to you don't matter as much. (I'm talking about things like opinions or general attitudes.....not extreme circumstances things like becoming rich or idk, getting thrown in jail.)

People are never just one thing.
 
Sep 6, 2014
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Your inte.




That's my point. You have to pirate, which means it's not accessible. Not everyone either wants to or even can sail the high seas. I want the dub to be as accessible as it was to the lowest common denominator. I'll never have that and I will always resent Takuechi for her hand in making sure that specific version was withheld and a new one took its place.
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I would like to add, as someone who did rewatch the entire Optimum dub a couple years back, it was actually quite the pain in the ass once I got to to the Cloverway seasons as the sites I would use would have the Viz dub episode at random episodes (so for example I would find a site where the first 10 episodes of S were the Cloverway dub and then BAM Viz dub for episode 11) and I would have to find ANOTHER site that had the proper Cloverway version. At one point I ended up having to watch a Cartoon Network edited version of a SuperS episode on the Internet Archives because every other stream I could find was the Viz dub or the Cloverway uncut dub but badly out of sync.

And while I didn’t have this problem with the DiC portion, I do have to wonder how much longer until finding the DiC dub becomes a near impossible task. It happened with Dragon Ball Z. Want to watch it how you grew up with in the late 90s and early 2000s? Tough [BLEEP], it's almost always the remastered version that's available online with the uncut version of season 1 and 2 with the Funimation cast instead of the Ocean Group and the partial redub for the remainder of the series instead of the original in-house dub
 
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JayD22460

Aurorae Lunares
Dec 20, 2011
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I do have to wonder how much longer until finding the DiC dub becomes a near impossible task. It happened with Dragon Ball Z. Want to watch it how you grew up with in the late 90s and early 2000s? Tough [BLEEP], it's almost always the remastered version that's available online with the uncut version of season 1 and 2 with the Funimation cast instead of the Ocean Group and the partial redub for the remainder of the series instead of the original in-house dub
I do understand and I think this is a valid concern. It’s always possible for links to die, for torrents to go unseeded for years. At that point it would be up to the Sailor Moon fan community to upload it somewhere again.

This is why I think everyone should keep a download of the special stuff you wanna keep that is volatile (as in, seemingly easier to be lost off the Internet than other digital media), but I understand many fans aren’t able to maintain large data storage or just might not want to, or might feel uncomfortable with torrenting for any reason, or anything else.

I would hope the fandom would step up, and I think we have in many ways. One of the users here @ChibiBoi has done an amazing job digitizing their collection of Sailor Moon VHS fansubs, which is a special, unique experience of Sailor Moon.

My experience of Sailor Stars is entirely from the VKLL VHS fansubs, including the style of translation etc. And now I can preserve that, and experience the rest of Sailor Moon this way. This shouldn’t replace the official versions (I support the series financially, I own the show on various official disc and tape formats) but it is wonderful that the fandom was able to restore a piece of the Sailor Moon fan experience puzzle. Fansubs (and fandubs!) have been a part of the international anime fan experience for a long time.

The point is, I like to think the fandom would step up again as it has in the past when a part of the franchise was seemingly lost to us.
 
Aug 16, 2014
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I do understand and I think this is a valid concern. It’s always possible for links to die, for torrents to go unseeded for years. At that point it would be up to the Sailor Moon fan community to upload it somewhere again.

This is why I think everyone should keep a download of the special stuff you wanna keep that is volatile (as in, seemingly easier to be lost off the Internet than other digital media), but I understand many fans aren’t able to maintain large data storage or just might not want to, or might feel uncomfortable with torrenting for any reason, or anything else.

I would hope the fandom would step up, and I think we have in many ways. One of the users here @ChibiBoi has done an amazing job digitizing their collection of Sailor Moon VHS fansubs, which is a special, unique experience of Sailor Moon.

My experience of Sailor Stars is entirely from the VKLL VHS fansubs, including the style of translation etc. And now I can preserve that, and experience the rest of Sailor Moon this way. This shouldn’t replace the official versions (I support the series financially, I own the show on various official disc and tape formats) but it is wonderful that the fandom was able to restore a piece of the Sailor Moon fan experience puzzle. Fansubs (and fandubs!) have been a part of the international anime fan experience for a long time.

The point is, I like to think the fandom would step up again as it has in the past when a part of the franchise was seemingly lost to us.
I suggest getting usbs and extension.That way you don't have to keep it store on your computer.
 

saintfighteraqua

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Feb 16, 2021
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I don't know, the answer isn't an easy yes or no.
Sailor Moon's manga is old now. It has always received criticism but it has more than ever due to Crystal.
There are some unfair criticisms but at the same time, most of them are still valid, they just get taken too far.

Some of them, like Naoko's love for cars, I think is tongue in cheek, and in-joke for Sailor Moon fans. I don't think it's harmful. It's just a way to steer the conversation down a certain road .
I'm sure it gears some fans up while it exhausts others. It certainly drives traffic towards those threads and pops the hood on more serious issues with Naoko's style and the license she takes with some of the ideas.
 
Jul 29, 2012
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JBC (Brazilian manga publisher) gave an explanation on why the Eternal Edition (announced back in 2019) wasn't released yet, during an event.
Naoko disagrees with the tone ONE PAGE in the first issue is printed in, and she isn't approving the release until she likes it enough :lol:
Well, if it is going to be a collectible or a collector’s item, it should be perfect, no?

I think people are lucky these days...

When I was a kid in the 90s watching Sailor Moon when it originally aired there, I had these friends older than I was and they told me that the manga was the real thing. We used the Internet to look at Naoko Takeuchi‘s illustrations and spent hours trying to learn more about the manga. Eventually, each of us bought a lot of the volumes of the manga in Japanese, the original Tankōbon edition, and we tried to translate and understand the manga together, page by page, panel by panel.

I no longer have my tankōbons, but they were expensive!
 

Masquerade

Solaris Luna
Nov 22, 2016
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Well, if it is going to be a collectible or a collector’s item, it should be perfect, no?
And who said Naoko's criteria of perfect makes sense or even has organization? We're talking about the woman who asked for honorifics in dubs and delayed the Spanish eternal edition because she switched the source material without notifying Kodansha.
But I should already be used to people making excuses for every slap this woman gives on the face of her foreign fans.
 

Rika-Chicchi

Staff member
Site Admin
May 7, 2009
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I don't know, the answer isn't an easy yes or no.
Sailor Moon's manga is old now. It has always received criticism but it has more than ever due to Crystal.
There are some unfair criticisms but at the same time, most of them are still valid, they just get taken too far.

Some of them, like Naoko's love for cars, I think is tongue in cheek, and in-joke for Sailor Moon fans. I don't think it's harmful. It's just a way to steer the conversation down a certain road .
I'm sure it gears some fans up while it exhausts others. It certainly drives traffic towards those threads and pops the hood on more serious issues with Naoko's style and the license she takes with some of the ideas.
I just hope we won't crash among ourselves. :lol:
 
Jul 29, 2012
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After being obsessed with Sailor Moon during my childhood, I suppose that I am only a casual fan nowadays.

There are moments in my life in which I forget about Sailor Moon… but life always brings it back.

I (personally) think that anime DVDs and BDs everywhere are ridiculously overpriced and/or expensive and I only buy them used from the secondhand market. I don’t even have many: the only Sailor Moon DVDs I own are the S film and the three first seasons of Crystal. I bought them used from eBay.

I do appreciate Naoko Takeuchi as an artist and storyteller and I am thankful to her for “Sailor Moon.” But I would not support her expensive franchise the way I did as a kid.

If Eternal were not on Netflix, I likely wouldn’t even have watched it.

Personal opinion.
 
Aug 16, 2014
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JBC (Brazilian manga publisher) gave an explanation on why the Eternal Edition (announced back in 2019) wasn't released yet, during an event.
Naoko disagrees with the tone ONE PAGE in the first issue is printed in, and she isn't approving the release until she likes it enough :lol:
I am Nako supporter, but that is ridiculous.I certainly hope you get that release.
 

Lady Pen

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Mar 12, 2021
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JBC (Brazilian manga publisher) gave an explanation on why the Eternal Edition (announced back in 2019) wasn't released yet, during an event.
Naoko disagrees with the tone ONE PAGE in the first issue is printed in, and she isn't approving the release until she likes it enough :lol:
Also, JBC like any other international publisher will have to send Takeuchi a printed sample of each colour page, what means money they're constantly losing every time they order to print with those special inks in that expensive stucco paper Naoko wants for foreign editions.

There's another video where Norma chief editor talks about it. I'll PM you if I find it.

I'd tell JBC to make sure they're working with the "right" reference copy, just in case Naoko hasn't changed again the references without notifying Kodansha because...... she woke up and fancied doing so. :rolleye:
 

Masquerade

Solaris Luna
Nov 22, 2016
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Also, JBC like any other international publisher will have to send Takeuchi a printed sample of each colour page, what means money they're constantly losing every time they order to print with those special inks in that expensive stucco paper Naoko wants for foreign editions.

There's another video where Norma chief editor talks about it. I'll PM you if I find it.

I'd tell JBC to make sure they're working with the "right" reference copy, just in case Naoko hasn't changed again the references without notifying Kodansha because...... she woke up and fancied doing so. :rolleye:
Ever heard of KNP? It's a name used for terminology approved for Netflix localizations.
Eternal's KNP was RIDICULOUSLY long... Toei/PNP made Netflix's partner studios over the world send like 150 terms for approval. This is a really unusual number, even for already existing IPs. And we're talking about just two movies.
Not only the big heads at the companies wanting to work with Naoko's franchise have headaches, working-class people making their living off them also have a hard time. And it's not like they receive extra fees or time because it's Sailor Moon. They still have other projects to work on simultaneously :wow:
 
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Feb 8, 2021
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Also, JBC like any other international publisher will have to send Takeuchi a printed sample of each colour page, what means money they're constantly losing every time they order to print with those special inks in that expensive stucco paper Naoko wants for foreign editions.

There's another video where Norma chief editor talks about it. I'll PM you if I find it.

I'd tell JBC to make sure they're working with the "right" reference copy, just in case Naoko hasn't changed again the references without notifying Kodansha because...... she woke up and fancied doing so. :rolleye:
Takeuchi's attitude might be the reason why Bandai does not like to deal with her.
 
Apr 30, 2021
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Also, JBC like any other international publisher will have to send Takeuchi a printed sample of each colour page, what means money they're constantly losing every time they order to print with those special inks in that expensive stucco paper Naoko wants for foreign editions.

There's another video where Norma chief editor talks about it. I'll PM you if I find it.

I'd tell JBC to make sure they're working with the "right" reference copy, just in case Naoko hasn't changed again the references without notifying Kodansha because...... she woke up and fancied doing so. :rolleye:
I would love to have a printed version of the All Colour edition. But that would be a complete nightmare for every single publishing company around the world...